OT: This is exactly what I'm talking about

[TOMMY_23]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/07/3...g-65-year-old-had-been-deported-20-times.html

But I have to sit here and read libtards like Questfor12 and Islero attacking a veteran over a spelling error.

Meanwhile, the first two people I mentioned are in full support of illegal immigrants coming into our country so they can secure more votes for progressive candidates. Next, they'll tell us how we are better off w/ sanctuary cities.

P.S. If you want to use a John McEnroe quote, be my guest. But don't come off looking like a total hypocrite next time.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Illegal Immigrants cant vote though

 

[rgc7]

Illegals can do a lot of illegal things including voting illegally !

 

[SALittleGiant513]

How many illegal aliens voted last year? Are there any reports of that actually happening?

 

[Pennick44]

How many illegal aliens voted last year? Are there any reports of that actually happening?

If dead people can vote, then there is a good chance illegals can too.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

I guess I am just confused as to why one would want illegal immigrants to come to the USA to increase votes. (1) If illegals are voting it isn't substantial, (2) Allowing illegals into the USA doesn't get rid of the significant checks in place to limit voter fraud, which is for the most part successful considering the minimal amount of voter fraud detected, and (3) logically it doesn't even make sense, if that was a main reason for advocating for a specific immigration policy why not just advocate for reform that would allow voting and naturalization immediately rather then more open borders?

 

[rgc7]

I guess I am just confused as to why one would want illegal immigrants to come to the USA to increase votes. (1) If illegals are voting it isn't substantial, (2) Allowing illegals into the USA doesn't get rid of the significant checks in place to limit voter fraud, which is for the most part successful considering the minimal amount of voter fraud detected, and (3) logically it doesn't even make sense, if that was a main reason for advocating for a specific immigration policy why not just advocate for reform that would allow voting and naturalization immediately rather then more open borders?

 

[rgc7]

Good questions. Here is one for you. Why are Liberals against voter photo IDs for all voters ?
It also does not take much voter fraud to swing a close election. It only takes a few votes
Like Al Franklin suddenly found , and even JFK found in certain major swing states when he defeated Nixon ! Mayor Daily was great at turning out the vote and digging up enough to
Swing elections.
The Democrates had a saying: " Don't forget to vote and vote often !"
Remember also that Illegals have children who are born here and eventually they become voters !

 

[deadirishpoet]

Good questions. Here is one for you. Why are Liberals against voter photo IDs for all voters ?
It also does not take much voter fraud to swing a close election. It only takes a few votes
Like Al Franklin suddenly found , and even JFK found in certain major swing states when he defeated Nixon ! Mayor Daily was great at tourning out the vote and digging up enough to
Swing elections.
The Democrates had a saying: " Don't forget to vote and vote often !"
Remember also that Illegals have children who are born here and eventually they become voters !

Even better question is why is it racist to present a photo ID to vote?

 

[hayaka]

Even better question is why is it racist to present a photo ID to vote?

And an even better question is why conservatives are worried about impersonation voter fraud at polling places? That is absolutely the hardest way to commit voter fraud. You have to get a large group of people (a very large group to affect a state election) to go around to multiple voting sites, and you have to hope those people don't talk. [Which they will. People never keep their mouths shut].

Instead, a small group of people (even one person) could collect a bunch of absentee ballots with fake identities, and submit those. Much easier, much harder to trace, much less labor-intensive, and much less concern over loose tongues blabbing about the whole thing. If voter fraud is such a concern, why aren't conservative legislatures passing laws doing away with absentee voting?

Yeah, I think we all know the answer to that.

 

[deadirishpoet]

And an even better question is why conservatives are worried about impersonation voter fraud at polling places? That is absolutely the hardest way to commit voter fraud. You have to get a large group of people (a very large group to affect a state election) to go around to multiple voting sites, and you have to hope those people don't talk. [Which they will. People never keep their mouths shut].

Instead, a small group of people (even one person) could collect a bunch of absentee ballots with fake identities, and submit those. Much easier, much harder to trace, much less labor-intensive, and much less concern over loose tongues blabbing about the whole thing. If voter fraud is such a concern, why aren't conservative legislatures passing laws doing away with absentee voting?

Yeah, I think we all know the answer to that.

I know what my answer is I'm sure it's different than yours

 

[Telx1]

I guess I am just confused as to why one would want illegal immigrants to come to the USA to increase votes. (1) If illegals are voting it isn't substantial, (2) Allowing illegals into the USA doesn't get rid of the significant checks in place to limit voter fraud, which is for the most part successful considering the minimal amount of voter fraud detected, and (3) logically it doesn't even make sense, if that was a main reason for advocating for a specific immigration policy why not just advocate for reform that would allow voting and naturalization immediately rather then more open borders?

Liberals aren't in favor of illegal immigration per se, but they are in favor of a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, and the right to vote that comes with this. It is generally accepted that the majority of illegal immigrants if granted amnesty and a path to citizenship would vote the Democrat party line.

 

[hayaka]

I know what my answer is I'm sure it's different than yours

Fair enough, my answer is that absentee voting benefits Republicans. so they aren't interested in doing away with it, despite the much greater voting fraud risks it poses than with in-person voting. What is your answer?

 

[SeanPol355]

Good questions. Here is one for you. Why are Liberals against voter photo IDs for all voters ?
It also does not take much voter fraud to swing a close election. It only takes a few votes
Like Al Franklin suddenly found , and even JFK found in certain major swing states when he defeated Nixon ! Mayor Daily was great at turning out the vote and digging up enough to
Swing elections.
The Democrates had a saying: " Don't forget to vote and vote often !"
Remember also that Illegals have children who are born here and eventually they become voters !

Al Franken
Mayor Daley
Vote early and vote often.
Lucky for you it is not an intelligence test.

 

[deadirishpoet]

Fair enough, my answer is that absentee voting benefits Republicans. so they aren't interested in doing away with it, despite the much greater voting fraud risks it poses than with in-person voting. What is your answer?

I agree there is a greater chance of fraud through absentee voting but how does that benefit Republicans?
You need an ID to do anything.
Proving who you are at the voting booth isn't that difficult.

 

[hayaka]

I agree there is a greater chance of fraud through absentee voting but how does that benefit Republicans?
You need an ID to do anything.
Proving who you are at the voting booth isn't hat difficult.

Obviously it is difficult for some people, or Republicans wouldn't be passing laws requiring it, and Democrats wouldn't be fighting against the passage of those laws. The bottom line is, given that in-person voting fraud is the most problematic with the smallest payoff of the election fraud methods, it is about a thousand times more likely a person will be wrongfully denied the right to vote for failing to produce ID at the polls, than it is they would be prevented from illegally voting by an ID check. Not to mention the chilling effect it would have on those who don't even bother going to the polls, knowing they will be turned away.

 

[deadirishpoet]

Obviously it is difficult for some people, or Republicans wouldn't be passing laws requiring it, and Democrats wouldn't be fighting against the passage of those laws. The bottom line is, given that in-person voting fraud is the most problematic with the smallest payoff of the election fraud methods, it is about a thousand times more likely a person will be wrongfully denied the right to vote for failing to produce ID at the polls, than it is they would be prevented from illegally voting by an ID check. Not to mention the chilling effect it would have on those who don't even bother going to the polls, knowing they will be turned away.

You have a better chance of winning the lottery then not having a form of ID that will allow you to vote

 

[Islero]

A little sensitive today, eh Tommy. For one thing, teasing a guy about a spelling gaffe would only be called an "attack" by somebody who's a total wimp. You've never met me and I've never posted anything about immigration, illegal or otherwise, but that doesn't stop you from ranting obtusely and drawing conclusions out of thin air. However, since you linked that sensationalist article (how odd that it would come from such an impeccably objective source like Fox), you should know that extensive studies from universities and groups like the Pew Research Center have revealed that immigrants commit far fewer violent crimes than the native born population.

 

[Telx1]

A little sensitive today, eh Tommy. For one thing, teasing a guy about a spelling gaffe would only be called an "attack" by somebody who's a total wimp. You've never met me and I've never posted anything about immigration, illegal or otherwise, but that doesn't stop you from ranting obtusely and drawing conclusions out of thin air. However, since you linked that sensationalist article (how odd that it would come from such an impeccably objective source like Fox), you should know that extensive studies from universities and groups like the Pew Research Center have revealed that immigrants commit far fewer violent crimes than the native born population.

This is correct. Similarly, the largest study to compare crime rates for illegal aliens in sanctuary cities versus non sanctuary cities found no significant statistical difference between these; and yet the lie that crimes rates for illegal aliens are much lower in Sanctuary cities gets repeated and reported on a regular basis. Liberals and conservatives alike should be able to agree that an illegal alien who commits a crime in addition to their illegal entry, should be reported to ICE for eventual deportation, and yet even this is something the majority of defenders of sanctuary cities cannot agree on.

 

[Quest4Twelve]

Good questions. Here is one for you. Why are Liberals against voter photo IDs for all voters ?
It also does not take much voter fraud to swing a close election. It only takes a few votes
Like Al Franklin suddenly found , and even JFK found in certain major swing states when he defeated Nixon ! Mayor Daily was great at turning out the vote and digging up enough to
Swing elections.
The Democrates had a saying: " Don't forget to vote and vote often !"
Remember also that Illegals have children who are born here and eventually they become voters !

All? Well that statement is invalid for people like me who live in states (FL) that require photo id already.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Good questions. Here is one for you. Why are Liberals against voter photo IDs for all voters ?
It also does not take much voter fraud to swing a close election. It only takes a few votes
Like Al Franklin suddenly found , and even JFK found in certain major swing states when he defeated Nixon ! Mayor Daily was great at turning out the vote and digging up enough to
Swing elections.
The Democrates had a saying: " Don't forget to vote and vote often !"
Remember also that Illegals have children who are born here and eventually they become voters !

Many of (not necessarily all in theory) the voter id laws are problematic because they construct additional burdens to the vote for actual citizens that have a disproportional affect on lower class minorities. These additional burdens are not offset by any substantial benefit. These reason there isn't a substantial benefit is because there is little to no actual confirmed cases of voter fraud where these laws are attempting to be implemented. References to JFK and the political machine of Daley don't even make sense as (1) there are much more significant checks in place now to prevent that from happening and (2) the technology surrounding voting has changed so much that it is easier to verify and catch anomalies if it were to happen to the extent it is alleged to have occurred in those instances.

Also I don't think its just liberal, even though that is fun to say and there are many more liberals against the laws then conservatives. States creating these laws that keep getting struck down are getting hammered by conservative court of appeals, not liberal ones but some of the most conservative courts of appeals out there. If the narrative that it was only liberals with a issue against these laws were true then the laws would be getting thrown out by very right leaning judges.

 

[rgc7]

Many of (not necessarily all in theory) the voter id laws are problematic because they construct additional burdens to the vote for actual citizens that have a disproportional affect on lower class minorities. These additional burdens are not offset by any substantial benefit. These reason there isn't a substantial benefit is because there is little to no actual confirmed cases of voter fraud where these laws are attempting to be implemented. References to JFK and the political machine of Daley don't even make sense as (1) there are much more significant checks in place now to prevent that from happening and (2) the technology surrounding voting has changed so much that it is easier to verify and catch anomalies if it were to happen to the extent it is alleged to have occurred in those instances.

Also I don't think its just liberal, even though that is fun to say and there are many more liberals against the laws then conservatives. States creating these laws that keep getting struck down are getting hammered by conservative court of appeals, not liberal ones but some of the most conservative courts of appeals out there. If the narrative that it was only liberals with a issue against these laws were true then the laws would be getting thrown out by very right leaning judges.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Liberals aren't in favor of illegal immigration per se, but they are in favor of a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, and the right to vote that comes with this. It is generally accepted that the majority of illegal immigrants if granted amnesty and a path to citizenship would vote the Democrat party line.

I think that is a different analysis then what was brought up in the original post. I think the important thing to remember is that a path to citizenship would require a number steps and isn't just a flip a switch matter. Additionally I think that the common ground that is accepted by more on the left then those on the right is allowing amnesty without a specific path to citizenship but rather more open work visa allowances.

 

[hayaka]

You have a better chance of winning the lottery then not having a form of ID that will allow you to vote

Well, that is just wrong.

"By all estimates, those least likely to have a government-issued photo ID fall into one of four categories: the elderly, minorities, the poor and young adults aged 18 to 24. The Brennan Center estimates that 18 percent of all seniors and 25 percent of African-Americans don't have picture IDs."

[Snip}

"Many people have multiple forms of identification, including those that display their pictures — like employee badges or credit and debit cards. But states with strict voter ID laws require people to have certain photo IDs issued by governments. That typically means driver's licenses. But many seniors and many poor people don't drive. In big cities, many minorities rely on public transit. And many young adults, especially those in college, don't yet have licenses.

A good number of these people, particularly seniors, function well with the IDs they have long had — such as Medicaid cards, Social Security cards or bank cards. Among the elderly, many of them have banked at the same branch for so long that tellers recognize them without needing to see their IDs. They also may rarely need to cash or deposit checks, relying instead on the direct depositing of Social Security and pension payments."

[Snip]

"In most states with voter ID laws, citizens must present birth certificates to obtain new photo IDs. Seniors and those born in rural areas, in particular, face a difficult time meeting the requirement because birth certificates weren't regularly generated in the 1930s and earlier. And many of these people were delivered by midwives, who often improperly spelled babies' and parents' names on birth documents. People are caught in a Catch-22: You need a birth certificate to get this ID, but to get a birth certificate you have to have an ID. If a state does have a person's birth certificate, they often must present a photo ID to obtain a copy. That can put an individual back at square one, says Elisabeth MacNamara, who heads the League of Women Voters."

http://www.npr.org/2012/01/28/146006217/why-new-photo-id-laws-mean-some-wont-vote

It may be that you have the time, the energy, and the paperwork to easily get a government-issued photo ID, That doesn't mean it is the case for everyone else. And the purpose of photo ID at the polling place is to fix a non-existent problem--voter impersonation. It simply doesn't happen, for the reasons I discussed above.

 

[rgc7]

Why would it be so difficult for any person to get a voter ID ? It should be much easier than getting a driver's
License with out having to pass any type of test like one must do to get a driver's license!
Why are Liberals against cleaning up the voter registration rolls ?
I don't think that in a landslide election, voter fraud would make any difference, but in very close elections,
A few hundred votes in a few key districts can swing the election from one candidate to another.
All precautions that we can take to insure fair elections should be welcomed by all Americans.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

You have a better chance of winning the lottery then not having a form of ID that will allow you to vote

That doesn't even make sense.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Why would it be so difficult for any person to get a voter ID ? It should be much easier than getting a driver's
License with out having to pass any type of test like one must do to get a driver's license!
Why are Liberals against cleaning up the voter registration rolls ?
I don't think that in a landslide election, voter fraud would make any difference, but in very close elections,
A few hundred votes in a few key districts can swing the election from one candidate to another.
All precautions that we can take to insure fair elections should be welcomed by all Americans.

The NPR article does a good job of explaining why its difficult for people to get voter ID cards which are similar to why its hard to get any govt issued ID. There are better more efficient ways to clean rolls that dont require an ID law. Additionally the ID laws are often much more complicated then just simply "go get an id." Regardless this doesn't answer the fact that its not liberal judges throwing out these laws.

 

[deadirishpoet]

The NPR article does a good job of explaining why its difficult for people to get voter ID cards which are similar to why its hard to get any govt issued ID. There are better more efficient ways to clean rolls that dont require an ID law. Additionally the ID laws are often much more complicated then just simply "go get an id." Regardless this doesn't answer the fact that its not liberal judges throwing out these laws.

NPR = New liberal Propaganda Radio, and yes my post above makes perfect sense

 

[deadirishpoet]

Well, that is just wrong.
If
"By all estimates, those least likely to have a government-issued photo ID fall into one of four categories: the elderly, minorities, the poor and young adults aged 18 to 24. The Brennan Center estimates that 18 percent of all seniors and 25 percent of African-Americans don't have picture IDs."

[Snip}

"Many people have multiple forms of identification, including those that display their pictures — like employee badges or credit and debit cards. But states with strict voter ID laws require people to have certain photo IDs issued by governments. That typically means driver's licenses. But many seniors and many poor people don't drive. In big cities, many minorities rely on public transit. And many young adults, especially those in college, don't yet have licenses.

A good number of these people, particularly seniors, function well with the IDs they have long had — such as Medicaid cards, Social Security cards or bank cards. Among the elderly, many of them have banked at the same branch for so long that tellers recognize them without needing to see their IDs. They also may rarely need to cash or deposit checks, relying instead on the direct depositing of Social Security and pension payments."

[Snip]

"In most states with voter ID laws, citizens must present birth certificates to obtain new photo IDs. Seniors and those born in rural areas, in particular, face a difficult time meeting the requirement because birth certificates weren't regularly generated in the 1930s and earlier. And many of these people were delivered by midwives, who often improperly spelled babies' and parents' names on birth documents. People are caught in a Catch-22: You need a birth certificate to get this ID, but to get a birth certificate you have to have an ID. If a state does have a person's birth certificate, they often must present a photo ID to obtain a copy. That can put an individual back at square one, says Elisabeth MacNamara, who heads the League of Women Voters."

http://www.npr.org/2012/01/28/146006217/why-new-photo-id-laws-mean-some-wont-vote

It may be that you have the time, the energy, and the paperwork to easily get a government-issued photo ID, That doesn't mean it is the case for everyone else. And the purpose of photo ID at the polling place is to fix a non-existent problem--voter impersonation. It simply doesn't happen, for the reasons I discussed above.

No it's not wrong, but since you're complaining all you have is to blame the Liberals and their policies that allowed so many undocumented people in that this type of action is required.

Yes my wife had to provide her birth certificate in order to transfer her Florida driver's license in Nebraska. The DMV told here it was because of the undocumented immigrants causing this.

This along with so many other bad policies by liberals has created this, and other problems such as illegal getting government assistance, and fraudulent tax refunds

When government becomes the new God what would you expect to happen

Casting Crowns sang it best:
"
United States of America

Looks like another silent night

As we’re sung to sleep by philosophies

That save the trees and kill the children"

The photo ID fixes many problem.

 

[Islero]

NPR = New liberal Propaganda Radio, and yes my post above makes perfect sense

Rather clumsy to create an acronym that doesn't include all the letters you ascribe to it. However, F(omenting) O(dious) X(enophobia) works just fine.

 

[deadirishpoet]

Rather clumsy to create an acronym that doesn't include all the letters you ascribe to it. However, F(omenting) O(dious) X(enophobia) works just fine.

Nothing clumsy about it

 

[SALittleGiant513]

NPR = New liberal Propaganda Radio, and yes my post above makes perfect sense

There are way more then 1 in a Million people without ID's but go on.

 

[Islero]

Nothing clumsy about it

Sorry, there is no L in the letters you tried to force into a deft acronym turn of phrase. A Living Irish Poet would recognize that, and dead Irishmen who actually were poets would be rolling in their graves over your attempt.

 

[deadirishpoet]

There are way more then 1 in a Million people without ID's but go on.

If they can bus them to vote they can bus them to get an IDs

 

[deadirishpoet]

Sorry, there is no L in the letters you tried to force into a deft acronym turn of phrase. A Living Irish Poet would recognize that, and dead Irishmen who actually were poets would be rolling in their graves over your attempt.

You're grasping

 

[deadirishpoet]

Sorry, there is no L in the letters you tried to force into a deft acronym turn of phrase. A Living Irish Poet would recognize that, and dead Irishmen who actually were poets would be rolling in their graves over your attempt.

http://www.mrc.org/bozells-column/npr-admits-liberal-bias

 

[Islero]

You're grasping

By pointing out that there is no L for Liberal in NPR?

 

[Islero]

http://www.mrc.org/bozells-column/npr-admits-liberal-bias

Nothing in this article identifies an L in NPR.

 

[IRISHJD98]

Even better question is why is it racist to present a photo ID to vote?

Here in Chicago, either of the precinct election judges (the democrat and the republican) can challenge the whether a signature matches the signature on file. If the signature is challenged, then the judges can demand ID, and you actually have to produce TWO forms of ID. If you can't, then you may cast a provisional ballot and provide the identification within 7 days at the Board of Elections office if you want your provisional ballot counted.

Its a process that - as applied - is ripe for abuse of all types including racial based considerations. For most people its not a problem, but it pisses people off and can look like people are being singled out. I'm an oldish white guy, and I've been asked for ID. I knew it wasn't race, but its left me wondering why. I've signed my name the same way for over 30 years.

 

[TOMMY_23]

Illegal Immigrants cant vote though

You're joking, right?