One Last Political Comparison Before Memorial Day Weekend
- Thread starter Howard Hall 74
- Start date
Poet,
Enjoy your trip to D.C. ! I too alway go by the Wall and the Korean Memorial and
Reflect and say prayers at both-monuments !
Semper Fi !
Enjoy your trip to D.C. ! I too alway go by the Wall and the Korean Memorial and
Reflect and say prayers at both-monuments !
Semper Fi !
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I'll leave it to IIO to rebut the majority of your Canadian data, but clearly Alberta doesn't pay "all the bills" in Canada, as it is only 15% of Canadian GDP.
Canadian GDP
"They wanted closed and safe borders"
They'll get the same thing they had under Obama. There will be just more innocent, productive, mothers of American citizens, swept up in Trump's raids. And there is not going to be any wall. They can't even decide where to build it. You build it north of the Rio Grande, and you give away the river. Not to mention all the runoff that currently goes into the river. Where is that supposed to go?
"a strong military,"
Yeah, a military under Obama that had greater expenditures than the next 8 countries in the world combined somehow wasn't enough. (smh).
"a sound foreign policy,"
As has become obvious, Trump doesn't know the first thing about foreign policy. As he made clear today, he doesn't even understand what NATO is for.
"repeal and replace Obama Care"
With what? Not to mention, Obamacare is now more popular than ever. Thanks, Republicans.
" A lower and simplified tax system,"
For the rich? You really think the average Trump voter supports massive tax reductions for the coastal elites? But that is what they'll get with Trump's budget-busting tax plan.
There's nothing to rebut ....we have lots of debt : federal, provincial, and personal .... growth rates are not what they were last time debt was high. Central Bank still applies Novocain 10 years after the 2007 crisis .... half the country can't come up with 200 bucks.
Its not a question of how much is made, it's a question of who spends it and where.
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The days of oil "being up" may be over. Aging populations worldwide, and too many energy sources in too many places. Even Trump seems to think that, as he wants to sell off half of our petroleum reserve.
You are completely clueless
Tell me what is NATO for?
I've worked along side of NATO troops. They worked best when they got out of our way.
The ACA is dead. It will collapse on it own weight. Only the clueless and uniformed like it
Your rant about the military speaks volumes.
President Obama let it decay. Look at the shape it's in Geez
Now your more innocent productive mother's comment is classic.
Pregnant illegals are not productive. They take more then they give back, and by your comment I guess they have no idea where the father is, or is it that they squat a baby on American soil the baby Grant citizenship and then the entire family from what other country they came from now can come to this country all 100 of them.....shocker.
More unskilled labor. More burden on society.
Do this nation of favor and keep them all in California please.
Now regards to taxes the rich are rich either they keep their money out of the country where it cannot be taxed at all or they bring it in the country where it can be taxed even if it is a break the deal on the tax break is for the middle class the poor don't have to worry about it cuz they don't make any money to be taxed. They get what they put in back, and some on their returns
It's a suggested amount, not a promised amount and just because you choose to spend more than your share, because your military complex is the backbone of your economy, it's not our fault. We're not costing US taxpayers more money, y'all do that to yourselves. You travel around the world policing every every scenario you can, finding a necessary reason to use the military you spend trillions of dollars on. I don't blame you, it makes sense.... But that's not our fault.
We had this discussion last week. None of "us" are freeloaders. Everytime there is a serious threat to peace (not one the U.S. seeks out) we've stepped up to help quell it. That's very doable (as has been proven) without spending such a gargantuan amount if money on a single entity within the federal budget (military).
"Lots of debt" is extremely relative. Yes Ontario's debt is substantially more so than any other province, but it's home to 40% of the population in the country and it doesn't have the same natural resource base Alberta does. What it does have is what are widely considered two of the world's best cities to live in, Ottawa and Toronto and it's by far Canada's largest manufacturing base... For the record, Wynne has been a terrible premier and has become hated in Ontario outside of the GTA. That said, Ontario portion of the debt is widely skewed by its populous. That would be like if New York State or California were home to 180 million people, but had the largest debt base in the country.... You think!?!?!
You have to see the difference between a nation that has routinely opporated with debt in the 66% range of total GDP and has had a two year spike to still less than 10% of GDP, vs a country that operates far in the red every year and has no reasonable chance of recovering from said trend anytime in the future. That was my point. We all have debt. Every nation... But some countries has debt along with world class universal education, universal healthcare, guaranteed federal pensions, substantial baby bonuses, etc, etc, and some do not. It's simply how you choose to spend your money.
The average Canadian (over all age ranges) makes right around $50,000 per year and has a total debt average of $22,00, mortgages not included. If you, people you know can't come up with $200, I'd say that you are fiscally irresponsible.
"Tell me what is NATO for?"
NATO's founding mission was a common defense against Soviet bloc aggression. Today, the Soviet bloc is gone, and in fact some Soviet bloc members are now NATO members. What is NATO's mission today? Good question! It seems to be an organization geared towards defense during conventional warfare. but without a viable conventional enemy.
"The ACA is dead. It will collapse on it own weight. Only the clueless and uniformed like it."
Since you're in the mood for making predictions, what do you think will replace it?
"Your rant about the military speaks volumes.
President Obama let it decay. Look at the shape it's in Geez"
Yeah, I'm looking at a country which spends more on the military than the next 8 countries combined. Which country do you think poses any kind of a threat to the U.S., and how would greater spending mitigate that threat?
"Pregnant illegals are not productive. They take more then they give back, and by your comment I guess they have no idea where the father is, or is it that they squat a baby on American soil the baby Grant citizenship and then the entire family from what other country they came from now can come to this country all 100 of them.....shocker.
More unskilled labor. More burden on society."
Wow. You obviously don't know too many illegals. By and large, they work a hell of a lot harder than most Americans. Look around you. You know this is true.
"Now regards to taxes the rich are rich either they keep their money out of the country where it cannot be taxed at all or they bring it in the country where it can be taxed even if it is a break the deal on the tax break is for the middle class the poor don't have to worry about it cuz they don't make any money to be taxed. They get what they put in back, and some on their returns."
I have no idea what that word salad is supposed to mean.
IIO
If not free loader then what deadbeat?
Everytime there's a serious threat to peace America leads everybody else follows
The cost of success without committing Ground Forces in large amounts is not cheap
President Obama did the military no favors it's catch up time now and president Trump is trying to rebuild what needed to be fixed without putting the burden on the American taxpayer.
Listen brother I respect you a great deal as a poster on the board and the service to your country but this country is broken in so many places and a non-politician as a president is trying to get it done while the political hierarchy from both sides of the aisle are trying to keep him in his place.
So we agree NATO is useless
The only thing I can predict about Health Care is the ACA will fail. It's unsustainable.
Rand Paul had the best plan, but the weak ass moderates in the republican party want to keep big government big.
There is absolutely no way to insure every person when they don't want to pay anything for their own insurance.
Pre-existing conditions are a killer but unfortunately in America will you be able to start a job when you're young and finish at the same company 20 years later outside of military so it's a necessary evil
Healthcare from your work is the best way to get it. Creating jobs will afford most people insurance those who want to work.
Those who are entrepreneurs and small business owners need some sort of brakes
I don't know what part of America you live in but if illegals are out working citizens then those citizens need to be shamed and get no government assistance.
That is not the case where I live (Nebraska),regardless they are a burden on our school systems and a burden on resources.
The fact alone that illegals are granted luxuries when breaking the law that citizens are not is shameful not to mention at some point they'll be allowed to bring their entire family across the border. As I stated more unskilled labor more burden on society.
A salad by definition is:
a cold dish of various mixtures of raw or cooked vegetables, usually seasoned with oil, vinegar, or other dressing and sometimes accompanied by meat, fish, or other ingredients.
I quoted a survey.....there are plenty of fiscally irresponsible people in Canada starting with the government. I provided a lot of empirical evidence above ...... nice try! I own my Bermuda home and BC ranch. Nice graph! Perhaps your comprehension of the material is lacking.
Here’s a sobering factoid that takes Krugman’s shocking comparison even further: You actually have to go back to 1938 to see Canadian household savings rates this low.
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to show just how bad the debt situation in Canada truly is, here is a chart which are largely self-explanatory. IIO is owned! Lols
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So glad the criminal is reduced to doing what she does best lie and play the victim.
to show just how bad the debt situation in Canada truly is, here is a chart which are largely self-explanatory. IIO is owned! Lols
If I'm reading your graph correctly, that household debt includes one very important factor. A mortgage? That's what skews your graph so significantly. Some factors that have to be considered...
1. Roughly 5% more Canadians own their home as opposed to Americans, which means they have a mortgage, but also means that they will have that future asset. So yes, it is included in their household debt figure, but over the long term, will serve as an advantage, not a disadvantage. That's more Canadians borrowing against their homes (like my parents did) and extending the term on their mortgage, but in doing so, creating a higher quality of living for themselves.
2. Canada ranks 7th in the world in terms of populous with a tertiary (higher) education, whether that be college or university. 53% of applicable Canadians a tertiary education, which leads to higher earning potential as demonstrated by the roughly $6000 annual earning gap between Canadians and Americans. Comparatively, 40% of Americans have completed college or university and have a tertiary degree... Again, short term debt, that leads to longer term earning power. Another investment for the future.
3. Cost of living is a significant factor. Roughly 50% of all Canadians live in Canada's 5 largest cities, where mortgage rates are high. That's the price you pay for living in World class cities such as Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal and Ottawa, which routinely rank among the world's best cities to live in, safest cities to live in, etc, etc. The population distribution is much more significant in the United States and your graph doesn't tell the whole story by any stretch. Yes I might be a Canadian living in Ottawa, with more debt on the books than a friend of mine living in Atlanta, but what happens when something of medical significance happens to my friend and he suddenly has thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills, something I won't have to worry about? That's why 45,000 Americans die each year in direct relation to their lack of medical coverage, or a lack of adequate coverage.
Forget for a second that we were talking about Federal debt and the conversation has now changed to personal debt (which is fine), but when you look into your graph deeper, there are all kinds of factors it ignores that greatly skew the picture, some of which I listed above. A significant percentage of debt accumulated by Canadians is for homes and education, both of which are long term investments.
I'm not suggesting your graph doesn't have some merrit, although, again, the conversation changed from Federal Debt to Personal debt, but it's a substantially more in depth conversation than you would have people believe. If you don't want to look any deeper into the numbers than the face value, then yeah I guess I'm "owned", but when you want to start talking about long term investment and return on those investments, or factor in the plethora of hidden costs not included on your graphs, the conversation has plenty of room to continue.
Also note that the sharp American decline in debt happened during the housing bubble, which Canadians navigated for the most part. How much American household debt was eliminated "overnight" via bankruptcy or repossession?... Another factor your graph doesn't address.
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No we talked about debt that includes fed, prov and personal. As I told you my best friend teaches medicine at A major Ontario Med School and he confirmed its rationed.....It's not the ultimate panacea you claim. I've used Ontario and United Kingdom Health Care and quite frankly neither was a problem because no major illness. Now I have a family member in BC who has a torn meniscus and has been waiting over 7 months. Another in Ontario has Lime from a tick bite and has to drive to NY State for any treatment. So much for the high taxes and universal care. My Private insurance gets me into Boston from Bermuda if anything major and I have zero worries and far more income after tax with better care.
A senior member of the Canadian Auditor General has been enjoying my wine cellar for the past week ....he certainly confirmed there is a problem ....I would say he audits more provinces than you.
Why not just write off the National Debt and start over? Given our current government spending we would hit $20Trillion again in about 20 years.
There are too many people unwilling to provide for themselves. The government has become the "employer" of last resort and the provider of these so-called rights (uh, I mean results). 2,000 years ago if you didn't hunt, gather or provide your work to others for pay you died. I have no issues with being humane to those in need but how high do I have to be taxed to coddle those that are too stupid or lazy to help themselves. Johnson's Great Society has created a permanent non-working class that keeps growing. Someone needs to take the training wheels off and make them do something. How much skill is required to pick plastic out of the ocean or fill potholes?
There are too many people unwilling to provide for themselves. The government has become the "employer" of last resort and the provider of these so-called rights (uh, I mean results). 2,000 years ago if you didn't hunt, gather or provide your work to others for pay you died. I have no issues with being humane to those in need but how high do I have to be taxed to coddle those that are too stupid or lazy to help themselves. Johnson's Great Society has created a permanent non-working class that keeps growing. Someone needs to take the training wheels off and make them do something. How much skill is required to pick plastic out of the ocean or fill potholes?
You didn't answer my most important question, which is: "Which country do you think poses any kind of a military threat to the U.S., and how would greater military spending mitigate that threat?
If you can't answer that, you can't even justify the staggering levels we already spend on the military, much less an increase, as you seem to support.
.
Your most important question? Did you state that was your most important question in your prior post.
I thought the most important question was the meaning of the word salad
The increase is to fix what is broken, needs updating, and preparedness for challenges to come.
President Obama neglected the military
So no answer on which country poses the threat that justifies military spending increases. Got it.
This is beyond foolish.
So you can only have a military prevention/response to 1 single issue?
Only countries can be the subject of military prevention/response?
Creating a false question (strawman) and trying to take it down doesn't mean you have a point.
I gave you the answer, but you are just unwilling to accept it you must work for CNN
No, the question was what country (or if you prefer, what countries, although Russia, China, etc., certainly don't act in concert) pose a threat that justifies even greater military spending. Your response was to say the means to accomplishing the mission must be improved. But you have to have a mission that needs to be accomplished before you can focus on the methods of accomplishing that mission. You seem to be unable to articulate any kind of a mission. You just accept the military and defense contractors claim that more money is needed, without even trying to understand what purpose another spending increase would serve.
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I invite you as well to articulate the military mission of the US in the post-Cold War era, and explain how it justifies military spending that is more than the next 8 countries COMBINED. And according to Trump and the military/defense industry complex, even that is not enough.
You've obviously never served in the military
Readiness is Paramount
You must be prepared for all things.
We've trained for all scenarios
And you cannot do that unless your equipment is ready.
The past administration has neglected this.
Security of this nation home and abroad must be first and something that the Constitution states taxes go to unlike 90% of the other shit that taxes have gone to
Do yourself a favor drop what you're doing if you're are of age join the military and see what I know.
Thanks for your "invitation"......lol
There are several "missions", which is part of what you don't seem to get.
They include (but are ABSOLUTELY not limited to):
- Providing absolute security for our own citizens
- Providing security/stability for American businesses/interests, to facilitate the growth and development of the nation
- Providing some security (now too much, imo) for our allies
- Developing (and funding the development of) new technologies to assist in any/all of the above
- etc.
For example:
- We should pay a single cent to the UN or NATO above our 2% commitment level
- And we should only do that when all other "Major Nations" meet their commitments as well (Germany, France, Spain, Italy, etc.)
- We should stop fighting almost all "humanitarian" and/or "democracy spreading" wars.....let other countries deal with their own problem
- We should reduce our troop levels in stable nations, requiring them to increase their own troop commitments
- etc.
This would be well balanced by reducing entitlements, or conditioning entitlements on military service (or other publicly productive work)
I now invite you to respond
I have a graduate degree in military technology from MIT, and I served in JAG Air Force Reserves.
"Readiness is paramouunt".
Readiness for what? Before anything else, you have to have a mission. What is the mission of the US military in the post-Cold War era, and you can't just say readiness for anything and everything, and security for the country and its citizens. That is true at all times. What is the specific mission today that justifies these ludicrous spending levels?
Same question for you, as your post also spoke in generalities and stated we need to do things (security for our citizens, interests, etc.), that we always need to do. Where are the specific threats coming from today that justifies a massive conventional force and infrastructure that dwarfs every other country in the world six times over? Is it Russia? Is it China? India? Brazil? ???
Why do we need the world's Largest and strongest Military ? Because we live in a very dangerous
World. If and when we go to war, we must use Overwhelming Military Power ! Such massive power
Will not only save American Lives, butalso the lives of the enemy solders and citizens of the
Countries we are fighting against, by winning very rapidly. A short war actually decreases casualties
On both sides.
How could anyone ask what nations pose a threat to us ? Do some of not watch the news ?
Radical Islam aside which is certainly a major threat , North Korea may be on the verge of developing
a rocket with the range to launch nuclear weapons on our homeland. Do we just ignore that problem ?
What is our choice, if China can not solve the problem ?
Have you any idea of how costly and how big an army we would need to invade and defeat North Korea ?
The Korean War lasted Three years, and the U S KIA totals were over 36,000 with untold numbers
of wounded and MIAs.
Do you know anything about how small and depleated our military was at the start of the Korean War ?
Did you know how ill prepared and under armed our soldiers were who fought so gallantly at the
Pusan Perimeter? They did not even have Anti tank weapons that could stop the tanks that led the North
Korean attack. Those valiant men were cannon fodder because the American Military was so depleated
At that time in our history.
That is why we need to have and maintain an Overwhelming Military Superiority! First to avoid war
In the , and secondly to destroy any enemy that ever has the temerity to go to war with us !
World. If and when we go to war, we must use Overwhelming Military Power ! Such massive power
Will not only save American Lives, butalso the lives of the enemy solders and citizens of the
Countries we are fighting against, by winning very rapidly. A short war actually decreases casualties
On both sides.
How could anyone ask what nations pose a threat to us ? Do some of not watch the news ?
Radical Islam aside which is certainly a major threat , North Korea may be on the verge of developing
a rocket with the range to launch nuclear weapons on our homeland. Do we just ignore that problem ?
What is our choice, if China can not solve the problem ?
Have you any idea of how costly and how big an army we would need to invade and defeat North Korea ?
The Korean War lasted Three years, and the U S KIA totals were over 36,000 with untold numbers
of wounded and MIAs.
Do you know anything about how small and depleated our military was at the start of the Korean War ?
Did you know how ill prepared and under armed our soldiers were who fought so gallantly at the
Pusan Perimeter? They did not even have Anti tank weapons that could stop the tanks that led the North
Korean attack. Those valiant men were cannon fodder because the American Military was so depleated
At that time in our history.
That is why we need to have and maintain an Overwhelming Military Superiority! First to avoid war
In the , and secondly to destroy any enemy that ever has the temerity to go to war with us !
JAG huh
Paper Pusher
I served 25 years in the United States Marine Corps we never waited for an incident to happen before being prepared
I was in Beirut in 83, I was part of the spearhead for Desert Storm. I spent 18 months in Afghanistan
We didn't wait for an incident to develop in order to have our equipment readied.
The previous Administration neglected the military. Would you want your son or daughter if in the military to have to wait for an incident in order for their equipment to be good and ready to go
So you learned that MIT that an incident needs to happen in order to have your equipment sound and ready to go. Sounds like a MIT did you know favors
Today's Wars are more technology/electronic Precision guided armaments these are not cheap but must be ready to go for when an incident happens America's best and brightest won't have to wait around
Well, at least someone is willing to offer some specific scenarios.
Radical Islam is not a country. It is a variety of terrorist organizations that don't require a large conventional infrastructure to respond to them. Do we really need over 200 stateside military bases to combat radical Islam? We obviously need a few for rapid response forces, but the level of redundancy is absurd.
You also mention a land war on the Korean peninsula. This is no longer 1950, when South Korea was actually smaller in population than North Korea. It is now three times larger, and is perfectly capable of defending itself in any conventional land war. In any case, the US force there is only about 30,000 and serves mainly as a tripwire deterrent. The massive U.S. military spending we still see today is not due to the North Korean threat.
So, still waiting for someone to explain where the threats exist in the modern world. As someone who lectured at Yongshan University in China on security studies, I met many Chinese military analysts, and every one of them was befuddled at how the US could see China as a threat in any meaningful sense, given the massive asymmetry between US and Chinese military power. The same thing with Russia, which used to be an enormous military power with a population of over 300 million plus satellite countries of another 100 million, and is now just a shriveled shell of its former self, with a population smaller than Bangladesh and military strength largely dependent on its aging nuclear capability.
There has to be a better argument for why U.S. per capita military spending is actually higher today than it was at the end of the Cold War? But I have yet to hear it.
What color is the sky in your world? He is going to build a wall, rebuild the military , attempt to fix that steaming pile called Obamacare and lower taxes.
We will see your head soon as the swamp continues to drain.
#MAGA
I answer you scenario
Operational preparedness is the scenario is it that much different in the Air Force Reserve?
My father was in the Air Force for 20 years I doubt very much he would agree with you if he was alive
In regards to the per capita military spending I I answered that as well.
Today's weapons system /armaments/satellite technology/Special Operation Groups are by far more Superior than during the Cold War with a cost much larger
For the life of me I can't imagine why you have difficulty understanding this?
"Today's weapons system /armaments/satellite technology/Special Operation Groups are by far more Superior than during the Cold War with a cost much larger."
You sound as though we are just buying this stuff for the sake of buying it. What are we buying it FOR? At least rgc provided two real-life scenarios, although I think he is wrong about either requiring a large conventional force infrastructure. But again the question remains: why do we need all this redundancy of forces and armaments when nothing exists in the modern world that can challenge the U.S. militarily? Why are we throwing good money after bad to maintain a preeminence that is way out of proportion to our security needs?
You keep trying to create a stawman that you can beat.
I'm sorry you're getting called in your BS and your straw man isn't working.
You don't have to have just 1 threat, or even be able to define every single threat at thins very moment, for the absolute importance of the "generalities" to be true. That's especially true when new threats can emerge faster than ever before and developing the tools/processes needed to effectively neutralize them can take longer than ever before.
The real question is this:
I answered your question about why it's so important to spend (and use) our military appropriately, which means shifting funds away from entitlements and towards R&D and productive public service/labor.
What justification can you provide for the security of the nation, business interests, and continued development to actually be LESS important than every single government handout we have today?
(Because every handout that is less important could have its fund a shifted towards these more productive military uses, and thus increase military funding without increasing tax payer burden)
What are our security needs?
The reason no one can challenge our military is because we have not stopped and allowed anybody to build up to challenge our military the object of staying one step ahead is necessary
But personally I believe you enjoy playing The Devil's Advocate and do not believe the stuff you're posting.
Is that JAG training?
Now if you want to speak of wasteful spending you need to look no further than the entitlements going out to the lazy of this country, and the continuous failed Democratic policies embedded in the big cities which have created more poor than helps uplift the needy
"I answered your question about why it's so important to spend (and use) our military appropriately, which means shifting funds away from entitlements and towards R&D and productive public service/labor."
A totally different debate. What makes you think we need to spend $$$ on either one? Perhaps we are wasting taxpayer dollars on both the military and entitlements?
