Offensive Line Play

[Telx1]

Our defense got shredded last night by an elite QB, and a really effective running attack, and pathetic tackling on our part. Watching our guys get great pressure on Williams, and then watching him play Houdini, was frustrating as hell. Our guys expending so much energy chasing the magician around that they got their asses whipped defending the run.

That said, I was much more frustrated with the pathetic play of our OL in the first half, which is where we lost this game in my opinion. We got stopped on something like three 3rd and 1, and one 4th and 1. Rees called the most stupid play of the game when he faked Diggs up the middle and gave it to Estime running east and west for a loss. At any rate, their DL play has been terrible against the run all year, and they played more physical than our vaunted OL, showed a lot of movement which seemed to confuse us, and stopped us on these critical 1 yard plays that kept our offense off the field and kept theirs on.

The fumble by Pyne and the INT he threw hurt for sure, but he played one of his best overall games of his career at ND. I think playing the IF game, starts and ends with the pathetic play of our OL on running plays.

 

[Patrirish]

👍

 

[echowaker]

Our defense got shredded last night by an elite QB, and a really effective running attack, and pathetic tackling on our part. Watching our guys get great pressure on Williams, and then watching him play Houdini, was frustrating as hell. Our guys expending so much energy chasing the magician around that they got their asses whipped defending the run.

That said, I was much more frustrated with the pathetic play of our OL in the first half, which is where we lost this game in my opinion. We got stopped on something like three 3rd and 1, and one 4th and 1. Rees called the most stupid play of the game when he faked Diggs up the middle and gave it to Estime running east and west for a loss. At any rate, their DL play has been terrible against the run all year, and they played more physical than our vaunted OL, showed a lot of movement which seemed to confuse us, and stopped us on these critical 1 yard plays that kept our offense off the field and kept theirs on.

The fumble by Pyne and the INT he threw hurt for sure, but he played one of his best overall games of his career at ND. I think playing the IF game, starts and ends with the pathetic play of our OL on running plays.

Yep, they got manhandled last night. No push. Not sure why. Shocking that no one calling for Harry to be fired 🙄🙄🙄

 

[Golson5]

Yep, they got manhandled last night. No push. Not sure why. Shocking that no one calling for Harry to be fired 🙄🙄🙄

Because hes a proven stud OL coach who has greatly improved the line this year.

Plus if you understand the game, you'd know they were putting 8 or 9 in the box because they weren't afraid of our qb and wrs. So it opened up the pass game and allowed us to throw for 300 plus yards. And our OL didnt look a sieve against the pass rush. Maybe just maybe

 

[Granite45]

As against Navy, seems to take more plays to adjust to the angle attack of the defensive linemen. Hence, why punt on first series, but not again.

 

[mirer03]

Because hes a proven stud OL coach who has greatly improved the line this year.

Plus if you understand the game, you'd know they were putting 8 or 9 in the box because they weren't afraid of our qb and wrs. So it opened up the pass game and allowed us to throw for 300 plus yards. And our OL didnt look a sieve against the pass rush. Maybe just maybe

This.

BUT the center got crossed up multiple times in the first half which gave away the gap to the defender.

It's hard to fault an online when they play a 8-9 man front every week. If Rees had called the passing this aggressively since week three we'd be a much less one dimensional team.

 

[stu4don]

Our defense got shredded last night by an elite QB, and a really effective running attack, and pathetic tackling on our part. Watching our guys get great pressure on Williams, and then watching him play Houdini, was frustrating as hell. Our guys expending so much energy chasing the magician around that they got their asses whipped defending the run.

That said, I was much more frustrated with the pathetic play of our OL in the first half, which is where we lost this game in my opinion. We got stopped on something like three 3rd and 1, and one 4th and 1. Rees called the most stupid play of the game when he faked Diggs up the middle and gave it to Estime running east and west for a loss. At any rate, their DL play has been terrible against the run all year, and they played more physical than our vaunted OL, showed a lot of movement which seemed to confuse us, and stopped us on these critical 1 yard plays that kept our offense off the field and kept theirs on.

The fumble by Pyne and the INT he threw hurt for sure, but he played one of his best overall games of his career at ND. I think playing the IF game, starts and ends with the pathetic play of our OL on running plays.

Agree T, they controlled both lines of scrimmage and that surprised me. Still, USC had everything to gain (like ND in these games in recent years) while ND was playing for a lesser bowl. Cam and Tariq being out hurt us, but Caleb was going to get this win. Marcus: Hold onto the class! Get a DL who can make an impact. And then hit the portal for a S (again) maybe at WR and, if he is a good fit, QB.

 

[Patrirish]

Because hes a proven stud OL coach who has greatly improved the line this year.

Plus if you understand the game, you'd know they were putting 8 or 9 in the box because they weren't afraid of our qb and wrs. So it opened up the pass game and allowed us to throw for 300 plus yards. And our OL didnt look a sieve against the pass rush. Maybe just maybe

Another myth, other than short yardage situations, there were no 8 and 9 man defensive fronts.

To claim that USC only left 2 defensive backs to defend against 3-4 receivers is absurd..

Offensive lineman aren’t restricted to either pass blocking or run blocking, they have to do both.

Didn’t you or another poster claim that our OL was a top 10 OL ?
If so, then they have to run block.

If you define the box at 5 yards in depth from the LOS, then we loaded the box with 8 men and USC ran for 204 yards and passed for 232 against it.

Stop creating false narratives.

Pyne was 23 of 26, which should have made running the ball easier, but the OLine didn’t perform well and USC’s defensive line did.

I stated prior to game time that whoever won the Lines of Scrimmage would win the game and USC won both battles, it’s that simple !

 

[Telx1]

Our DL would have had five or six sacks against a lot Of QBs yesterday. Williams ability to escape and turn disaster into a gain is elite. But our play against the run was really poor, and numerous times their OL got to the second level in their blocking and push. Of course, arm tackling and some whiffs by our DB subs hurt as well.

I only saw USC really Stack the box during short yardage situations, but That’s not unique to ND; and we should still get enough push to make the first, and we didn’t. And this against one of the worst run defending teams in college football.

 

[Patrirish]

Our DL would have had five or six sacks against a lot Of QBs yesterday. Williams ability to escape and turn disaster into a gain is elite. But our play against the run was really poor, and numerous times their OL got to the second level in their blocking and push. Of course, arm tackling and some whiffs by our DB subs hurt as well.

I only saw USC really Stack the box during short yardage situations, but That’s not unique to ND; and we should still get enough push to make the first, and we didn’t. And this against one of the worst run defending teams in college football.

👍

 

[Golson5]

Our DL would have had five or six sacks against a lot Of QBs yesterday. Williams ability to escape and turn disaster into a gain is elite. But our play against the run was really poor, and numerous times their OL got to the second level in their blocking and push. Of course, arm tackling and some whiffs by our DB subs hurt as well.

I only saw USC really Stack the box during short yardage situations, but That’s not unique to ND; and we should still get enough push to make the first, and we didn’t. And this against one of the worst run defending teams in college football.

No. They definitely attacked the box with numbers. Go back and watch

 

[mirer03]

No. They definitely attacked the box with numbers. Go back and watch

They played cover 1 a bunch. It's one of the reasons Pyne had so much success

 

[Get Nasty]

First drive for freeman and Rees was a feeling out drive per freeman …. Everyone in the world knew what usc was going to do on D except Rees and freeman

Terrible coaching

 

[Patrirish]

No. They definitely attacked the box with numbers. Go back and watch

I did and they didn’t!

That’s just a fabrication to fuel your anti-Pyne narrative.

 

[Telx1]

They played cover 1 a bunch. It's one of the reasons Pyne had so much success

Yes they did…not fearing the long ball, or the speed of our receivers. They largely took away our pass into the flat and forced us towards the middle, which I loved as it was nice to see Pyne throw across the middle for a change. We know Mickey didn’t enjoy a coming out game, but did Colzie?

 

[mirer03]

Yes they did…not fearing the long ball, or the speed of our receivers. They largely took away our pass into the flat and forced us towards the middle, which I loved as it was nice to see Pyne throw across the middle for a change. We know Mickey didn’t enjoy a coming out game, but did Colzie?

I think it's more they didn't fear the QB making that throw...which is why it worked when he did throw.

 

[BGI User 756]

Yep, they got manhandled last night. No push. Not sure why. Shocking that no one calling for Harry to be fired 🙄🙄🙄

Just as it was under Quinn last year… the limitations of the QB plus the play calling …contributes to the poorer OL play. They played run blitz all night

 

[ftnfan62]

They sold out to stop the run. It’s why DP had a rediculious completion %.

But DP can’t go deep and we didn’t make them pay. OSU did the same thing, Michigan took the top off. Those players are coming soon.

MF is going to load this up for TR and Harry and it’s 1988 again.

 

[Patrirish]

They sold out to stop the run. It’s why DP had a rediculious completion %.

But DP can’t go deep and we didn’t make them pay. OSU did the same thing, Michigan took the top off. Those players are coming soon.

MF is going to load this up for TR and Harry and it’s 1988 again.

Deep passes (50 yds in the air) are rare, just look at the YPA stats in the NCAA and NFL

 

[nptb]

Our DL would have had five or six sacks against a lot Of QBs yesterday. Williams ability to escape and turn disaster into a gain is elite. But our play against the run was really poor, and numerous times their OL got to the second level in their blocking and push. Of course, arm tackling and some whiffs by our DB subs hurt as well.

I only saw USC really Stack the box during short yardage situations, but That’s not unique to ND; and we should still get enough push to make the first, and we didn’t. And this against one of the worst run defending teams in college football.

You have to think that they were worn down and I think the linebackers were more to blame than the defensive line as far as the USC run game having success. You just have to tip your hat sometimes. Al Golden had a good game plan. The secondary played very well imo. USC caught our corners with quick snaps a few times.
And USC got away with at least 5 holding calls in the first half alone to ND's 1.

 

[Telx1]

You have to think that they were worn down and I think the linebackers were more to blame than the defensive line as far as the USC run game having success. You just have to tip your hat sometimes. Al Golden had a good game plan. The secondary played very well imo. USC caught our corners with quick snaps a few times.
And USC got away with at least 5 holding calls in the first half alone to ND's 1.

Basically agree with this. It appeared on TV that our secondary forced Williams to hold the ball long enough for the defensive push to force him out of the pocket. Our DL chased this guy all over the damn field, with him sometimes retreating twenty yards or so before turning it upfield and leaving our big tired linemen in the dust. I read that he completed something like 7 of 9 passes when forced out of the pocket. When you consider we played this game without Hart and Bracy, it’s surprising Williams didn’t light us up more with passing TDs.

 

[nptb]

ND is about to start pumping out corners again with our current secondary coach. Corners actually turn around to find the ball when it's in the air. Corners actually will hold somebody which you should if you feel them getting a good step on you. Force the refs to call it. Linebackers is where ND has to play the most athletic guys because there are too many situations over the last two seasons where slower linebackers are in position to make a play but just get outran or out quicked.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

Our defense got shredded last night by an elite QB, and a really effective running attack, and pathetic tackling on our part. Watching our guys get great pressure on Williams, and then watching him play Houdini, was frustrating as hell. Our guys expending so much energy chasing the magician around that they got their asses whipped defending the run.

That said, I was much more frustrated with the pathetic play of our OL in the first half, which is where we lost this game in my opinion. We got stopped on something like three 3rd and 1, and one 4th and 1. Rees called the most stupid play of the game when he faked Diggs up the middle and gave it to Estime running east and west for a loss. At any rate, their DL play has been terrible against the run all year, and they played more physical than our vaunted OL, showed a lot of movement which seemed to confuse us, and stopped us on these critical 1 yard plays that kept our offense off the field and kept theirs on.

The fumble by Pyne and the INT he threw hurt for sure, but he played one of his best overall games of his career at ND. I think playing the IF game, starts and ends with the pathetic play of our OL on running plays.

We lost because our defense gave up 5 70+ yard drives for TDs, mainly our LBs were awful and we only ran for 90 freaking rushing yards. That's your ballgame, in that order

 

[Telx1]

We lost because our defense gave up 5 70+ yard drives for TDs, mainly our LBs were awful and we only ran for 90 freaking rushing yards. That's your ballgame, in that order

yes, but my point is they don’t get 5 70+ yard drives for TDs if our OL played a good game in the first half.

 

[NDblitz]

Dude.... SC OL held ALL night. Refs were as enamored with watching Williams run around back there as the announcers were. The problem is they are refs. They are not there to watch him run around. They are there to do their job.

 

[ftnfan62]

Deep passes (50 yds in the air) are rare, just look at the YPA stats in the NCAA and NFL

Agree, but they dont play cover 0 in the NFL and when they do, the QB audibles and goes for a 50/50. DP has a max of 43 yards.

Every defense plays us as if we are in the redzone.

 

[beachcardinal]

ND used the A gap blitz way too much. It is a huge mistake to try to pressure Caleb. The way to slow him down is to drop eight with three rushers or seven with four and only worry about keeping him in the pocket. When SC fans see an inside blitz, they expect the next thing they hear is the fight song.

Doubling Addison with the safety over worked very well. But the blitz couple with SC's o-line dominating ND's D-line (something I never expected) made the difference in the game.

 

[NDblitz]

ND used the A gap blitz way too much. It is a huge mistake to try to pressure Caleb. The way to slow him down is to drop eight and have the four rushers only worry about keeping him in the pocket. When SC fans see an inside blitz, they expect the next thing they hear is the fight song.

Doubling Addison with the safety over worked very well. But the blitz couple with SC's o-line dominating ND's D-line (something I never expected) made the difference in the game.

How do you drop 8 with 4 rushers?

 

[beachcardinal]

How do you drop 8 with 4 rushers?

Yep typo. Sorry will change.

 

[ftnfan62]

I commented on this during the game thread but will mention again. I didn't notice the OL really following plays like they have been.

There were several times when Diggs or Estime was tied up and the line just watched or maybe a hand push. In past games they ran into those and aided the runner. I think it was Clemson when Patterson basically grabbed an ND player and carried him for a first and maybe 3 more yards.

I saw Fischer get blown up a bit more than usual. Good outing, 2 sacks, but not the fire at Clemson.

 

[Patrirish]

Agree, but they dont play cover 0 in the NFL and when they do, the QB audibles and goes for a 50/50. DP has a max of 43 yards.

Every defense plays us as if we are in the redzone.

I’m not so sure about that, I don’t see a significant difference in the alignment/depth of the DB’s that play against us versus DB’s that play against other teams

 

[Patrirish]

ND used the A gap blitz way too much. It is a huge mistake to try to pressure Caleb. The way to slow him down is to drop eight with three rushers or seven with four and only worry about keeping him in the pocket. When SC fans see an inside blitz, they expect the next thing they hear is the fight song.

Doubling Addison with the safety over worked very well. But the blitz couple with SC's o-line dominating ND's D-line (something I never expected) made the difference in the game.

Only rushing 3 DL’s will give him until February to find an open receiver …… and, he will find an open receiver, every QB does, given adequate time

 

[Get Nasty]

SC didn't completely dominate the dline. ND's game plan was for the dline to contain and the lbs to clean it up. LBs didn't clean up anything

 

[beachcardinal]

Only rushing 3 DL’s will give him until February to find an open receiver …… and, he will find an open receiver, every QB does, given adequate time

Worked for Oregon State, they held us to 17 points.

 

[47WimanND]

Because hes a proven stud OL coach who has greatly improved the line this year.

Plus if you understand the game, you'd know they were putting 8 or 9 in the box because they weren't afraid of our qb and wrs. So it opened up the pass game and allowed us to throw for 300 plus yards. And our OL didnt look a sieve against the pass rush. Maybe just maybe

Should have spread the field from the first play. SC was selling out to stop the run. We should have passed early and run later.

 

[Get Nasty]

Should have spread the field from the first play. SC was selling out to stop the run. We should have passed early and run later.

this I really struggle with the check with me and or not allowing pyne to audible. It's very clear on a lot of plays when USC and other teams were selling out to stop the run. I know sometimes we even were successful this year when teams sold out vs us, but you knew we needed to score points vs USC. We couldn't be conservative for a series or two. This wasn't going to be clemson where 14 points going into the fourth quarter would be good enough.

 

[SouthFloridaIrish88]

How do you drop 8 with 4 rushers?

You move to Canada and coach in the CFL. I am sure IIO would tell you in mind bogglingly boring detail how to run that very defense.

 

[GDFan]

I don’t think it’s a fail. I think it’s a C- or C. If this happens next year we have a complete failure. There was a lot of new parts that we needed to get on same page. He gets a pass this year for me.

 

[Patrirish]

Should have spread the field from the first play. SC was selling out to stop the run. We should have passed early and run later.

And yet everyone on this board was saying, run, run, run the ball, that’s our strength, and now you come in with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight and say that we should have passed, not run the ball.

Where were you with your sage advice prior to the game ?

 

[Patrirish]

Worked for Oregon State, they held us to 17 points.

I’d have to review the game tape prior to commenting on the OS game.