Notre Dame and a conference... what happens

[88ND]

You're right

Enjoy watching us play a schedule of non power teams.

WTH is wrong with you?

The "P5" at least Big10, Pac schools all have been informed to get more and better out of conference games. This isnt fresh news.

ND will have zero trouble making a schedule full of P5 schools ....
BTW....
The p5 bullshit is just that. Bullshit. It's living in the past with no scholarship limitation.

Parity is everywhere now and any given saturday anyone can beat anyone.

You can keep living in your trendy talking head world though while I watch Cincinnati embarrassing us at home.

We don't need a conference

 

[88ND]

I wish they could remain independent but it definitely hurts them in terms of BCS. They have to go unbeaten or very early loss to gain entry. The powers @ be coupled with espn bias against them, I think it’s time to join a conference. ACC imo

No.

Notre dame just becomes another college team.

They don't need a conference.

Moreover...it won't be harder for them to get in a playoff. If they deserve it they'll get in.
If they don't....they won't

 

[4-4-3]

You are right … and Swarbrick is trying to hold his asset until the absolute peak of the market which is a little tricky. He’s going to make the best deal and anyone who says ND is not concerned with the money is extremely naive.

independence is not what makes ND special … it’s far deeper than that … it’s merely a manifestation.

My take is that Swarbrick is trying to thread a VERY THIN NEEDLE. He did it once with the ACC deal which served as an excellent STRATEGIC RETREAT/HOLDING PATTERN. He then did the one-year-wonder CONFERENCE MEMBERSHIP that may have salvaged that year's football season from COVID. Again, cleverly played.

Plus, in both instances, he built SOCIAL CAPITAL.

But what can he offer this time which will not only be TACTICALLY NIMBLE but also STRATEGICALLY ADVANTAGEOUS in the years ahead? After all, the challenge is to get ND into a playoff discussion that may be RESERVED EXCLUSIVELY for MEGA-CONFERENCE MEMBERS.

So, it may be a NEEDLE TOO THIN.

And then there's the question of WHY BOTHER. You cite ND's independence as NOT what makes it special but rather some deeper attribute. That may be, and I won't argue the point either way. But I do agree that ND's remaining independent is not some INDISPENSABLE FIRST PRINCIPLE.

For me, what constitutes SPECIAL is winning consistently at the highest level which in turn, ENHANCES IMAGE and together with WINNING, generates DOLLARS, the POINT of the ENTIRE EXERCISE. That people conflate their own passions, fantasies and DESPERATE OVER-IDENTIFICATIONS with ND's purpose to MAKE MONEY from football is just the way people roll.

I pay as little attention to THAT as possible while trying to enjoy the GAMES as the SEASONAL DRAMAS they are. I get the same LIFT from a good ND/USC game as from a Sam Shepard play. But as a former trader and builder of financial businesses, the current more commercial aspect of CFB and ND's relationship to it are of EQUAL INTEREST.

In the long term, I see conference membership as having NO APPRECIABLE COMMERCIAL DOWNSIDE FOR ND. In fact, it's clearly more attractive AS THINGS STAND NOW. And while even the THOUGHT of independence feels like a sharp insult to the DIEHARDS and OVER-IDENTIFIERS, to the next generation of supporters, it's likely to mean ZERO.

INDEPENDENCE PARTISANS are not only fighting "THE LAST WAR," but it's also one they NEEDN'T FIGHT AT ALL.

 

[Golson5]

WTH is wrong with you?

The "P5" at least Big10, Pac schools all have been informed to get more and better out of conference games. This isnt fresh news.

ND will have zero trouble making a schedule full of P5 schools ....
BTW....
The p5 bullshit is just that. Bullshit. It's living in the past with no scholarship limitation.

Parity is everywhere now and any given saturday anyone can beat anyone.

You can keep living in your trendy talking head world though while I watch Cincinnati embarrassing us at home.

We don't need a conference

We don't need a conference.

But parity is not everywhere. That's nonsense

 

[NDDadx3]

My take is that Swarbrick is trying to thread a VERY THIN NEEDLE. He did it once with the ACC deal which served as an excellent STRATEGIC RETREAT/HOLDING PATTERN. He then did the one-year-wonder CONFERENCE MEMBERSHIP that may have salvaged that year's football season from COVID. Again, cleverly played.

Plus, in both instances, he built SOCIAL CAPITAL.

But what can he offer this time which will not only be TACTICALLY NIMBLE but also STRATEGICALLY ADVANTAGEOUS in the years ahead? After all, the challenge is to get ND into a playoff discussion that may be RESERVED EXCLUSIVELY for MEGA-CONFERENCE MEMBERS.

So, it may be a NEEDLE TOO THIN.

And then there's the question of WHY BOTHER. You cite ND's independence as NOT what makes it special but rather some deeper attribute. That may be, and I won't argue the point either way. But I do agree that ND's remaining independent is not some INDISPENSABLE FIRST PRINCIPLE.

For me, what constitutes SPECIAL is winning consistently at the highest level which in turn, ENHANCES IMAGE and together with WINNING, generates DOLLARS, the POINT of the ENTIRE EXERCISE. That people conflate their own passions, fantasies and DESPERATE OVER-IDENTIFICATIONS with ND's purpose to MAKE MONEY from football is just the way people roll.

I pay as little attention to THAT as possible while trying to enjoy the GAMES as the SEASONAL DRAMAS they are. I get the same LIFT from a good ND/USC game as from a Sam Shepard play. But as a former trader and builder of financial businesses, the current more commercial aspect of CFB and ND's relationship to it are of EQUAL INTEREST.

In the long term, I see conference membership as having NO APPRECIABLE COMMERCIAL DOWNSIDE FOR ND. In fact, it's clearly more attractive AS THINGS STAND NOW. And while even the THOUGHT of independence feels like a sharp insult to the DIEHARDS and OVER-IDENTIFIERS, to the next generation of supporters, it's likely to mean ZERO.

INDEPENDENCE PARTISANS are not only fighting "THE LAST WAR," but it's also one they NEEDN'T FIGHT AT ALL.

We are seeing this in a very similar way. ND reach is undeniable and has endured through good times and bad … Swarbrick is wise enough to know that the urgency here is not yet real but there will be a shelf life to the current settling out which may yet take some major twist or turn. Any decision in the next weeks/months would be foolish.

 

[4-4-3]

You are right … and Swarbrick is trying to hold his asset until the absolute peak of the market which is a little tricky. He’s going to make the best deal and anyone who says ND is not concerned with the money is extremely naive.

independence is not what makes ND special … it’s far deeper than that … it’s merely a manifestation.

No.

Notre dame just becomes another college team.

They don't need a conference.

Moreover...it won't be harder for them to get in a playoff. If they deserve it they'll get in.
If they don't....they won't

ND actually HAS become just another college team. What has it done to EXPRESS ITS SUPREMACY in the last 35 years? There's no question that it's been GOOD at times, but it's also WHIFFED on numerous occasions.

Where's the old WINNING UBER-ALLES?

Then there's Alabama, for which I feel no particular affinity. What is it -- SIX NC TITLES since 2009? Including a title win over ND that was one of the more thorough PASTINGS ND has ever suffered. And in the PRIMEST TIME.

I mean, there's your FIRST AMONG EQUALS. The Tide has both the HISTORY and CURRENT DOMINANT POSITION. And it continually beats up on those tough SEC teams, several of which are capable themselves of taking ND's measure in any given season.

Should ND join a conference it will be appreciably the same team, and very few if any of its fans will disappear as a consequence. And as I've said elsewhere, the younger generation doesn't have an ND THING as it's never seen ND perform any of the legendary exploits, the memories of which are unfortunately feeding into this current APPREHENSION over ND losing it's independence.

In reality, it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

 

[mbd11]

Same as every other team

Not for SEC teams. They can drop a game at any time, and still make the playoff if they go on to win the conference (or even if they don't - e.g., Georgia last year). And I'd bet even a 2-loss SEC champion would get very strong consideration.

 

[4-4-3]

We are seeing this in a very similar way. ND reach is undeniable and has endured through good times and bad … Swarbrick is wise enough to know that the urgency here is not yet real but there will be a shelf life to the current settling out which may yet take some major twist or turn. Any decision in the next weeks/months would be foolish.

I'm really not prepared to post intelligently on any specific timeline as I simply don't know enough about what's going on. And on this one point, I'm reluctant to speculate.

But it could be a tricky proposition and depend on other schools' degree of patience with ND if the main goal is to sew this all up as quickly as possible.

On the other hand, the FORCES PUSHING ALL OF THIS may wish to slow-walk things from here, giving other schools a chance to figure out their own positions.

What Swarbrick may fear is a kind of BLITZKRIEG/FALL OF FRANCE scenario where the SEC (Guderian's Panzers) and the BIG PICK-A-NUMBER (Rommel's Panzers) succeed in beating ND (the Brits and French) to the Channel. In other words, force him into a PREMATURE SURRENDER.

We'll see what kind of general he is THIS TIME, now that ND's Maginot Line may at last have been swiftly outflanked.

 

[sjb75]

My take is that Swarbrick is trying to thread a VERY THIN NEEDLE. He did it once with the ACC deal which served as an excellent STRATEGIC RETREAT/HOLDING PATTERN. He then did the one-year-wonder CONFERENCE MEMBERSHIP that may have salvaged that year's football season from COVID. Again, cleverly played.

Plus, in both instances, he built SOCIAL CAPITAL.

But what can he offer this time which will not only be TACTICALLY NIMBLE but also STRATEGICALLY ADVANTAGEOUS in the years ahead? After all, the challenge is to get ND into a playoff discussion that may be RESERVED EXCLUSIVELY for MEGA-CONFERENCE MEMBERS.

So, it may be a NEEDLE TOO THIN.

And then there's the question of WHY BOTHER. You cite ND's independence as NOT what makes it special but rather some deeper attribute. That may be, and I won't argue the point either way. But I do agree that ND's remaining independent is not some INDISPENSABLE FIRST PRINCIPLE.

For me, what constitutes SPECIAL is winning consistently at the highest level which in turn, ENHANCES IMAGE and together with WINNING, generates DOLLARS, the POINT of the ENTIRE EXERCISE. That people conflate their own passions, fantasies and DESPERATE OVER-IDENTIFICATIONS with ND's purpose to MAKE MONEY from football is just the way people roll.

I pay as little attention to THAT as possible while trying to enjoy the GAMES as the SEASONAL DRAMAS they are. I get the same LIFT from a good ND/USC game as from a Sam Shepard play. But as a former trader and builder of financial businesses, the current more commercial aspect of CFB and ND's relationship to it are of EQUAL INTEREST.

In the long term, I see conference membership as having NO APPRECIABLE COMMERCIAL DOWNSIDE FOR ND. In fact, it's clearly more attractive AS THINGS STAND NOW. And while even the THOUGHT of independence feels like a sharp insult to the DIEHARDS and OVER-IDENTIFIERS, to the next generation of supporters, it's likely to mean ZERO.

INDEPENDENCE PARTISANS are not only fighting "THE LAST WAR," but it's also one they NEEDN'T FIGHT AT ALL.

I'm really not prepared to post intelligently on any specific timeline as I simply don't know enough about what's going on. And on this one point, I'm reluctant to speculate.

But it could be a tricky proposition and depend on other schools' degree of patience with ND if the main goal is to sew this all up as quickly as possible.

On the other hand, the FORCES PUSHING ALL OF THIS may wish to slow-walk things from here, giving other schools a chance to figure out their own positions.

What Swarbrick may fear is a kind of BLITZKRIEG/FALL OF FRANCE scenario where the SEC (Guderian's Panzers) and the BIG PICK-A-NUMBER (Rommel's Panzers) succeed in beating ND (the Brits and French) to the Channel. In other words, force him into a PREMATURE SURRENDER.

We'll see what kind of general he is THIS TIME, now that ND's Maginot Line may at last have been swiftly outflanked.

Regurgitation.

 

[HarlemIrish]

No.

Notre dame just becomes another college team.

They don't need a conference.

Moreover...it won't be harder for them to get in a playoff. If they deserve it they'll get in.
If they don't....they won't

I rather independent status. Can ND get into BCS with one loss? Once again I rather have ND as independent but I think those days are numbered

 

[HDK]

The college landscape will look like the NFL soon.

2 Conference with multiple divisions in each.

Think AFC and NFC

Divisions
East
West
North
South

I think something like this is definitely possible. But that would include a heck of a lot of teams, most of which would never have a shot winning a playoff game, let alone getting into one. So I wonder if they would borrow an idea from gulp!, soccer, where teams that suck for a long time are relegated to a lower league while those that do well are allowed to move up.

None of it will affect me, other than the fact that when I hear our fans talk about "restoring our brand" and stuff like that, I lose a little more interest.

 

[4-4-3]

Regurgitation.

Try some fresh GURGITATION.

The ND-specific portion runs from 10:05 to 13:05. But do watch it all.

Future of the Big Ten et al.

 

[NDinNJ]

Every Big Ten game of every lower tier Big Ten team you just named has been televised. It’s contractual through our TV partners.

To think that the Big Ten would have televised every Rutgers game since they joined the Conference, which they have, and not televise Notre Dame is just pure nonsense.

Again if you buy cable and are in the region/NJ.
NBC you can get free Big 10 network you can't.

 

[Golson5]

Not for SEC teams. They can drop a game at any time, and still make the playoff if they go on to win the conference (or even if they don't - e.g., Georgia last year). And I'd bet even a 2-loss SEC champion would get very strong consideration.

Basically any power 5 team in the country needs to have 1 loss or less. Just like Notre Dame. No difference

 

[88ND]

I rather independent status. Can ND get into BCS with one loss? Once again I rather have ND as independent but I think those days are numbered

Sure...they can....

Just like every other team the loss depends on when, to whom, and how.

No different than anyone else

 

[88ND]

ND actually HAS become just another college team. What has it done to EXPRESS ITS SUPREMACY in the last 35 years? There's no question that it's been GOOD at times, but it's also WHIFFED on numerous occasions.

Where's the old WINNING UBER-ALLES?

Then there's Alabama, for which I feel no particular affinity. What is it -- SIX NC TITLES since 2009? Including a title win over ND that was one of the more thorough PASTINGS ND has ever suffered. And in the PRIMEST TIME.

I mean, there's your FIRST AMONG EQUALS. The Tide has both the HISTORY and CURRENT DOMINANT POSITION. And it continually beats up on those tough SEC teams, several of which are capable themselves of taking ND's measure in any given season.

Should ND join a conference it will be appreciably the same team, and very few if any of its fans will disappear as a consequence. And as I've said elsewhere, the younger generation doesn't have an ND THING as it's never seen ND perform any of the legendary exploits, the memories of which are unfortunately feeding into this current APPREHENSION over ND losing it's independence.

In reality, it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Are you born yesterday or just start watching CFB in the last 12 years?

Things run in cycles and while yes it's been far too long since ND TRULY had a title competing team...

They also hung on to a coach far too long in BK in fear of repeating the egg on face from the Charlie Weis situation.

Things will get better at some point but let's not act like nobody has ever had dominating runs aside from Bama.

 

[4-4-3]

Are you born yesterday or just start watching CFB in the last 12 years?

Things run in cycles and while yes it's been far too long since ND TRULY had a title competing team...

They also hung on to a coach far too long in BK in fear of repeating the egg on face from the Charlie Weis situation.

Things will get better at some point but let's not act like nobody has ever had dominating runs aside from Bama.

 

[4-4-3]

Are you born yesterday or just start watching CFB in the last 12 years?

Things run in cycles and while yes it's been far too long since ND TRULY had a title competing team...

They also hung on to a coach far too long in BK in fear of repeating the egg on face from the Charlie Weis situation.

Things will get better at some point but let's not act like nobody has ever had dominating runs aside from Bama.

No, I was actually born 74 years ago which is EXACTLY my point. WHEN ND WAS DOMINANT. When there was an AIRTIGHT CASE to me made for INDEPENDENCE and when TV DID NOT DICTATE CFB ECONOMICS.

All of that has CHANGED.

And it hasn't been just 12 years that ND football has COME UP LARGELY EMPTY, it's been 35. Which is to say no MILLENNIAL who was not a very, very young child at the time has ever been alive DURING AN ND CHAMPIONSHIP SEASON.

And MILLENIALS now comprise a good portion of your MATURE FAN BASE given that the youngest MILLENNIALS are APPROACHING 40. So, it's not only NOT YOURS OR YOUR FATHER'S ND, it's NOT YOURS OR YOUR FATHER'S ND FANBASE EITHER.

And as DIFFICULT AS IT MAY BE FOR OLDER ND FANS TO GRASP, millennials don't care a whit if ND belongs to a conference or not. There's no DRAMA to it as there's no ND DRAMA comparable to that of the ND teams that existed from the 60's through the early 90's.

THE PRODUCT HAS SIMPLY NOT BEEN THERE.

As for dominating runs, there has never been one like Alabama's -- an undisputed 6 NC's in 13 years via playoffs. And it's LIKELY STILL RUNNING.

Rockne won 3 NC's in 11 years and was credited with 3 more that are generally not recognized, while Leahy won 4 in 7 years and was credited with a fifth that's also generally not recognized.

Ara in 11 years, won 2 consensus titles and three that are not recognized. Holtz won 1 plus 2 more that are not recognized and Kelly 1 that has NEVER been recognized given the decisiveness of the BCS beatdown inflicted on ND by Alabama.

So, the direction of the TREND is clear and that ND is no longer the dominant team in the sport -- even as Alabama has assumed that role -- COULDN'T BE CLEARER.

So, why again does the rest of CFB owe ND preferential treatment?

BEATS THE HELL OUT OF ME.

 

[BGI User 1596]

So you’re basically calling it a relic at this point!

 

[sjb75]

No, I was actually born 74 years ago which is EXACTLY my point. WHEN ND WAS DOMINANT. When there was an AIRTIGHT CASE to me made for INDEPENDENCE and when TV DID NOT DICTATE CFB ECONOMICS.

All of that has CHANGED.

And it hasn't been just 12 years that ND football has COME UP LARGELY EMPTY, it's been 35. Which is to say no MILLENNIAL who was not a very, very young child at the time has ever been alive DURING AN ND CHAMPIONSHIP SEASON.

And MILLENIALS now comprise a good portion of your MATURE FAN BASE given that the youngest MILLENNIALS are APPROACHING 40. So, it's not only NOT YOURS OR YOUR FATHER'S ND, it's NOT YOURS OR YOUR FATHER'S ND FANBASE EITHER.

And as DIFFICULT AS IT MAY BE FOR OLDER ND FANS TO GRASP, millennials don't care a whit if ND belongs to a conference or not. There's no DRAMA to it as there's no ND DRAMA comparable to that of the ND teams that existed from the 60's through the early 90's.

THE PRODUCT HAS SIMPLY NOT BEEN THERE.

As for dominating runs, there has never been one like Alabama's -- an undisputed 6 NC's in 13 years via playoffs. And it's LIKELY STILL RUNNING.

Rockne won 3 NC's in 11 years and was credited with 3 more that are generally not recognized, while Leahy won 4 in 7 years and was credited with a fifth that's also generally not recognized.

Ara in 11 years, won 2 consensus titles and three that are not recognized. Holtz won 1 plus 2 more that are not recognized and Kelly 1 that has NEVER been recognized given the decisiveness of the BCS beatdown inflicted on ND by Alabama.

So, the direction of the TREND is clear and that ND is no longer the dominant team in the sport -- even as Alabama has assumed that role -- COULDN'T BE CLEARER.

So, why again does the rest of CFB owe ND preferential treatment?

BEATS THE HELL OUT OF ME.

Regurgitated garbage.

 

[mbd11]

Basically any power 5 team in the country needs to have 1 loss or less. Just like Notre Dame. No difference

You must not have been paying attention these last few years, if you don't think the SEC gets better treatment than everyone else, in terms of the playoff rankings (and deservedly so, like last year when they clearly had the two best teams).

 

[Golson5]

You must not have been paying attention these last few years, if you don't think the SEC gets better treatment than everyone else, in terms of the playoff rankings (and deservedly so, like last year when they clearly had the two best teams).

Gotta have 1 loss or less. Same goes for any p5 team to have a chance.

 

[sjb75]

You must not have been paying attention these last few years, if you don't think the SEC gets better treatment than everyone else, in terms of the playoff rankings (and deservedly so, like last year when they clearly had the two best teams).

2 loss teams do not get in.

No matter who they are.

And when your conference wins more titles than everyone else, and your conference plays each other in the 2021 title game, expect better treatment.

 

[88ND]

No, I was actually born 74 years ago which is EXACTLY my point. WHEN ND WAS DOMINANT. When there was an AIRTIGHT CASE to me made for INDEPENDENCE and when TV DID NOT DICTATE CFB ECONOMICS.

All of that has CHANGED.

And it hasn't been just 12 years that ND football has COME UP LARGELY EMPTY, it's been 35. Which is to say no MILLENNIAL who was not a very, very young child at the time has ever been alive DURING AN ND CHAMPIONSHIP SEASON.

And MILLENIALS now comprise a good portion of your MATURE FAN BASE given that the youngest MILLENNIALS are APPROACHING 40. So, it's not only NOT YOURS OR YOUR FATHER'S ND, it's NOT YOURS OR YOUR FATHER'S ND FANBASE EITHER.

And as DIFFICULT AS IT MAY BE FOR OLDER ND FANS TO GRASP, millennials don't care a whit if ND belongs to a conference or not. There's no DRAMA to it as there's no ND DRAMA comparable to that of the ND teams that existed from the 60's through the early 90's.

THE PRODUCT HAS SIMPLY NOT BEEN THERE.

As for dominating runs, there has never been one like Alabama's -- an undisputed 6 NC's in 13 years via playoffs. And it's LIKELY STILL RUNNING.

Rockne won 3 NC's in 11 years and was credited with 3 more that are generally not recognized, while Leahy won 4 in 7 years and was credited with a fifth that's also generally not recognized.

Ara in 11 years, won 2 consensus titles and three that are not recognized. Holtz won 1 plus 2 more that are not recognized and Kelly 1 that has NEVER been recognized given the decisiveness of the BCS beatdown inflicted on ND by Alabama.

So, the direction of the TREND is clear and that ND is no longer the dominant team in the sport -- even as Alabama has assumed that role -- COULDN'T BE CLEARER.

So, why again does the rest of CFB owe ND preferential treatment?

BEATS THE HELL OUT OF ME.

12 year reference? Nobody said 12 years. I said ND would have moved on from Brian Kelly long ago if they hadn't the egg on face from the CW era. In other words giving him the keys to the university and the vatican after one season of "almost" wins in a few big games.

Brian Kelly definitely doesn't survive 2016 and 38 drop backs in a hurricane with shin high standing water if not for the CW situation.

Thankfully he left because ND was married to him. He did just enough to be close but never enough to succeed in the ultimate moment. It was almost an impossible dismissal..
Again, thanks to him for leaving!!

Bama has NOTHING to do with this convo yet you keep bringing them up.
They've benefitted greatly from a playoff system .... (popularity contest) because it's NOT a real playoff system.

Had ND benefitted from a playoff how many more achievements do they realize? We never know that answer but it's safe to say they'd have won even more titles than credited for at present.
Holtz alone from 88 to and including 93 probably makes the playoff all but one year...at least 4 of the 6.
We all know how he fared in the largest of games.
Rockne, Leahy and Ara had no such playoff benefit as well.

Pitt in the 70's and early 80's
Miami in the 80's-early 90's
Pete's run at USC...
Penn State, Nebraska, Oklahoma

All had eras of domination that could've been elongated if a playoff was in place.

It's pretty amazing truth be told that even with a 30 year drought of winning a major bowl let alone a title ND still sits on the pedestal they do.

Imagine if you will just how much revitalization will occur should they win a god damn major bowl again....and god forbid a title. Another run similar to Lou's would blow the world up.

This won't last though. They aren't at the end of appeal yet but if the drought continues another 25 years then it won't matter what happens with ND. Relevancy is still high but while Big Ben hasn't chimed yet it's definitely ticking.

Either way it's utterly foolish to join a conference today and truth be told once all the realignment (AGAIN) settles ND will be a highly sought after out of conference game from thise conference participants.

As to you being miffed on why ND still has the clout they do...
It's because the driving force is the important ages. The 70 year olds to the early 40 year olds.
Right now the support is dying faster than ND's success. However, as I said if they can catch lightning in a bottle and dominate again even for a short stint it will cement several more decades of ND being it's own brand with incredible following and support.

We shall see

 

[88ND]

2 loss teams do not get in.

No matter who they are.

And when your conference wins more titles than everyone else, and your conference plays each other in the 2021 title game, expect better treatment.

Trendy beauty pageant and nothing more.

Show me all those out of conference games north of the Mason Dixon line post Halloween by your beloved SEC....

4 teams is a trendy beauty pageant driven by the talking heads and nothing more.

Yeah yeah yeah...they go in a room secretly like they have some nuclear codes or some shit...WTFE...
The AP and ESPN hosts impose themselves and still drive that car.

 

[Golson5]

Trendy beauty pageant and nothing more.

Show me all those out of conference games north of the Mason Dixon line post Halloween by your beloved SEC....

4 teams is a trendy beauty pageant driven by the talking heads and nothing more.

Yeah yeah yeah...they go in a room secretly like they have some nuclear codes or some shit...WTFE...
The AP and ESPN hosts impose themselves and still drive that car.

They've pretty much nailed it every year

 

[mbd11]

Gotta have 1 loss or less. Same goes for any p5 team to have a chance.

So far it's only been that way. But last year is an example of what I'm talking about. Alabama was 12-1 (SEC champs); Georgia was 12-1; Michigan was 12-1 (Big Ten champs); and Notre Dame was 11-1. Which one-loss team didn't make it in?

It was because our schedule wasn't considered as difficult as those others, and we didn't have that extra 13th game like the others did. That can be a handicap sometimes.

 

[Golson5]

So far it's only been that way. But last year is an example of what I'm talking about. Alabama was 12-1 (SEC champs); Georgia was 12-1; Michigan was 12-1 (Big Ten champs); and Notre Dame was 11-1. Which one-loss team didn't make it in?

It was because our schedule wasn't considered as difficult as those others, and we didn't have that extra 13th game like the others did. That can be a handicap sometimes.

Yeah our schedule was weak and we didn't deserve to be in

 

[mbd11]

Yeah our schedule was weak and we didn't deserve to be in

And that's an issue sometimes with an independent schedule - you're left hoping your schedule turns out as tough as you thought it would be. Last year it wasn't, since several teams had mediocre years. So Cincinnati ended up being our toughest game, and turned out to be a de facto play-in game for the playoff, mid-season.

This year, we're top heavy with Ohio State, Clemson and USC, so it looks like it should be pretty strong overall.

 

[sjb75]

Trendy beauty pageant and nothing more.

Show me all those out of conference games north of the Mason Dixon line post Halloween by your beloved SEC....

4 teams is a trendy beauty pageant driven by the talking heads and nothing more.

Yeah yeah yeah...they go in a room secretly like they have some nuclear codes or some shit...WTFE...
The AP and ESPN hosts impose themselves and still drive that car.

There has been no better conference in CFB over the last 15 years than the SEC. If you believe another conference is better, name the conference.

 

[IrishBeer]

There has been no better conference in CFB over the last 15 years than the SEC. If you believe another conference is better, name the conference.

I don’t see a reference to him saying that’s the case. He simply mentioned cold weather. You’re picking a fight that isn’t there per usual.

 

[Golson5]

There has been no better conference in CFB over the last 15 years than the SEC. If you believe another conference is better, name the conference.

25 years

 

[4-4-3]

Regurgitated garbage.

Unsubscribed.

 

[4-4-3]

12 year reference? Nobody said 12 years. I said ND would have moved on from Brian Kelly long ago if they hadn't the egg on face from the CW era. In other words giving him the keys to the university and the vatican after one season of "almost" wins in a few big games.

Brian Kelly definitely doesn't survive 2016 and 38 drop backs in a hurricane with shin high standing water if not for the CW situation.

Thankfully he left because ND was married to him. He did just enough to be close but never enough to succeed in the ultimate moment. It was almost an impossible dismissal..
Again, thanks to him for leaving!!

Bama has NOTHING to do with this convo yet you keep bringing them up.
They've benefitted greatly from a playoff system .... (popularity contest) because it's NOT a real playoff system.

Had ND benefitted from a playoff how many more achievements do they realize? We never know that answer but it's safe to say they'd have won even more titles than credited for at present.
Holtz alone from 88 to and including 93 probably makes the playoff all but one year...at least 4 of the 6.
We all know how he fared in the largest of games.
Rockne, Leahy and Ara had no such playoff benefit as well.

Pitt in the 70's and early 80's
Miami in the 80's-early 90's
Pete's run at USC...
Penn State, Nebraska, Oklahoma

All had eras of domination that could've been elongated if a playoff was in place.

It's pretty amazing truth be told that even with a 30 year drought of winning a major bowl let alone a title ND still sits on the pedestal they do.

Imagine if you will just how much revitalization will occur should they win a god damn major bowl again....and god forbid a title. Another run similar to Lou's would blow the world up.

This won't last though. They aren't at the end of appeal yet but if the drought continues another 25 years then it won't matter what happens with ND. Relevancy is still high but while Big Ben hasn't chimed yet it's definitely ticking.

Either way it's utterly foolish to join a conference today and truth be told once all the realignment (AGAIN) settles ND will be a highly sought after out of conference game from thise conference participants.

As to you being miffed on why ND still has the clout they do...
It's because the driving force is the important ages. The 70 year olds to the early 40 year olds.
Right now the support is dying faster than ND's success. However, as I said if they can catch lightning in a bottle and dominate again even for a short stint it will cement several more decades of ND being it's own brand with incredible following and support.

We shall see

Double-check your response to my post where you asked if I’d been born yesterday OR had only started watching football in the last 12 years. To which, I replied that I’m 74. So, I don’t know what you mean when you say “Nobody said 12 years.”

Any reference to Brian Kelly I made was glancing. I wasn’t arguing Brian Kelly one way or the other.

My point instead was that ND is NO LONGER THE ONE INDESPENSABLE TEAM on the basis of what it’s accomplished on the field in the recent here and now vs. what ALABAMA HAS.

Yes, there’s still the ND of LEGEND AND LORE, but that’s not the team that has suited up with ANY REGULARITY since the early 90’s. Too bad, right? Though it HAS gotten better.

Still, Alabama is not only part of the current conversation, it’s usually its PRINCIPLE SUBJECT because, in fact, it’s THIS GENERATION’S ND. And I say that as someone who is in no way a fan. But I am CONSCIOUS and CAN STILL COUNT.

As for ND still being on a pedestal, I’d say that that pedestal is largely in the eyes of beholders who reside within THE ND BUBBLE.

And I’m not in the least MIFFED about any of this, one way or the other. I’m just making what I see as a MORE PRACTICAL CASE given what’s occurring. And, of course, many will disagree with that, but to me, that’s just the OTHER SIDE OF THE TRADE. If we all craved the same thing, WE WOULDN’T HAVE AN ECONOMY. Life is based on EXCHANGE.

To wit, I follow the money and the money-trail has been LEADING INEXORABLY towards more FORMALIZED conferences for some time. And it should continue to as long as we don’t have a serious ENERGY CRISIS, which, of course, we could.

And should that happen, nationwide sports conferences could wind up as one of this country's more IRONIC FOLLIES. But, thankfully, that potential day of reckoning STILL ISN’T HERE. Though don't be surprised if it comes. I'm TRADING RIGHT NOW that it will. T-bills, cash, metals, farmland.

In the meantime as for conferences, I will, as I’ve said, FOLLOW THE MONEY. And in doing so, I’ll be extremely surprised if ND DOESN’T DO LIKEWISE.

You should TRY IT. No loyalty oath REQUIRED.

 

[88ND]

There has been no better conference in CFB over the last 15 years than the SEC. If you believe another conference is better, name the conference.

How do you ascertain that?

Just because your love affair with the trendy talking heads on ESPN say sonething doesn't make it so.

I'm not suggesting the SEC is a bad conference but they're very comfortable doing things in a very cozy manner.

Again show me the Bama's and Georgia's that play above the Mason Dixon line post Halloween.
Show me the top SEC teams playing games in Seattle on a rainy blustery November night.
Show me one playing on a Saturday night in Columbus or Madison with windy flurries in the air and no humidity. You've any idea just how slick the ball gets in that condition? That leather gets extremely slick. As bad as pouring rain...maybe worse.

There isn't enough collective conference crossover games to put a true metric on that. All conferences are bad at that but the SEC is the worst of the bunch.

The best weather. Shortest travel. Always a D1AA filler game(s)
and again refusal to play in adverse situations like playing far north in November.

The AP poll hits with the preseason rankings and the popularity contest begins. It's utter bullshit when they act like that has no bearing on the rankings come week 6 or whatever.

If a team starts out unranked they need a miracle to get in.

The media is a trendy group and they love the flavor of the month or week. Always have.

 

[88ND]

Double-check your response to my post where you asked if I’d been born yesterday OR had only started watching football in the last 12 years. To which, I replied that I’m 74. So, I don’t know what you mean when you say “Nobody said 12 years.”

Any reference to Brian Kelly I made was glancing. I wasn’t arguing Brian Kelly one way or the other.

My point instead was that ND is NO LONGER THE ONE INDESPENSABLE TEAM on the basis of what it’s accomplished on the field in the recent here and now vs. what ALABAMA HAS.

Yes, there’s still the ND of LEGEND AND LORE, but that’s not the team that has suited up with ANY REGULARITY since the early 90’s. Too bad, right? Though it HAS gotten better.

Still, Alabama is not only part of the current conversation, it’s usually its PRINCIPLE SUBJECT because, in fact, it’s THIS GENERATION’S ND. And I say that as someone who is in no way a fan. But I am CONSCIOUS and CAN STILL COUNT.

As for ND still being on a pedestal, I’d say that that pedestal is largely in the eyes of beholders who reside within THE ND BUBBLE.

And I’m not in the least MIFFED about any of this, one way or the other. I’m just making what I see as a MORE PRACTICAL CASE given what’s occurring. And, of course, many will disagree with that, but to me, that’s just the OTHER SIDE OF THE TRADE. If we all craved the same thing, WE WOULDN’T HAVE AN ECONOMY. Life is based on EXCHANGE.

To wit, I follow the money and the money-trail has been LEADING INEXORABLY towards more FORMALIZED conferences for some time. And it should continue to as long as we don’t have a serious ENERGY CRISIS, which, of course, we could.

And should that happen, nationwide sports conferences could wind up as one of this country's more IRONIC FOLLIES. But, thankfully, that potential day of reckoning STILL ISN’T HERE. Though don't be surprised if it comes. I'm TRADING RIGHT NOW that it will. T-bills, cash, metals, farmland.

In the meantime as for conferences, I will, as I’ve said, FOLLOW THE MONEY. And in doing so, I’ll be extremely surprised if ND DOESN’T DO LIKEWISE.

You should TRY IT. No loyalty oath REQUIRED.

I should try what?
Writing 568 sentences like you about the nothingness of being?

Alabama is dominating. They're fortunate of a playoff at present as I stated.

That said if you think Alabama is the modern day ND...then it doesn't matter when you were born. You just have no idea what you speak of.

How many Bama games are nationally televised? While they get shown most of the SEC they still aren't on nationally every week.

Even with all their success they somehow still can't get that pinnacle of interest like ND...who BTW has every game nationally broadcast (unless doing a solid for a streaming service or the like.)
No matter who they play they are wanted on TV and most often at the perfect time slot.

So while you can spew ND isn't what it used to be on the field and that's correct....
They still set the bar on television interest.

Imagine that

 

[mbd11]

How do you ascertain that?

Just because your love affair with the trendy talking heads on ESPN say sonething doesn't make it so.

I'm not suggesting the SEC is a bad conference but they're very comfortable doing things in a very cozy manner.

Again show me the Bama's and Georgia's that play above the Mason Dixon line post Halloween.
Show me the top SEC teams playing games in Seattle on a rainy blustery November night.
Show me one playing on a Saturday night in Columbus or Madison with windy flurries in the air and no humidity. You've any idea just how slick the ball gets in that condition? That leather gets extremely slick. As bad as pouring rain...maybe worse.

There isn't enough collective conference crossover games to put a true metric on that. All conferences are bad at that but the SEC is the worst of the bunch.

The best weather. Shortest travel. Always a D1AA filler game(s)
and again refusal to play in adverse situations like playing far north in November.

The AP poll hits with the preseason rankings and the popularity contest begins. It's utter bullshit when they act like that has no bearing on the rankings come week 6 or whatever.

If a team starts out unranked they need a miracle to get in.

The media is a trendy group and they love the flavor of the month or week. Always have.

They've proven it on the field, in the playoffs. Just look at last year - Alabama easily dispatched Cincinnati and Georgia easily dispatched Michigan, before re-matching each other in the championship. They were clearly the two best teams in the country.

 

[88ND]

They've proven it on the field, in the playoffs. Just look at last year - Alabama easily dispatched Cincinnati and Georgia easily dispatched Michigan, before re-matching each other in the championship. They were clearly the two best teams in the country.

You're missing the point completely.

Moreover...

Please tell me when Cinci and Michigan for that matter has been on that stage in the last dozen years. If you don't think the "moment" and experience and or lack of it can have an impact then you've never played competitive sport.

Also while you're at it please show me all the SEC teams traveling north post Halloween.

The point is Big 10 teams and others (and I despise the Big 10) deal with inclement conditions all the time.
The upper northwest....again conditions play a part.
The SEC deals with none of that and it's much easier to look pretty when your coldest game might...and I stress might... reach a low of 52 degrees.
No snow, no sleet, rain..not much...cold? Never.

You can rally around the trendy talking heads all you want but until the playoffs become a real playoff it's nothing more than a flavor of the month selection of four teams. A beauty pageant. A punch and Judy show.

I promise you this....
If the SEC wasn't afraid of adversity in it's scheduling the playoff participants would be different of the last ten years.
(NO I'm NOT saying Bama or others lose all games up north in bad weather but they don't win them all... and a loss is a loss is a loss and that affects playoff participation)

 

[sjb75]

How do you ascertain that?

Just because your love affair with the trendy talking heads on ESPN say sonething doesn't make it so.

I'm not suggesting the SEC is a bad conference but they're very comfortable doing things in a very cozy manner.

Again show me the Bama's and Georgia's that play above the Mason Dixon line post Halloween.
Show me the top SEC teams playing games in Seattle on a rainy blustery November night.
Show me one playing on a Saturday night in Columbus or Madison with windy flurries in the air and no humidity. You've any idea just how slick the ball gets in that condition? That leather gets extremely slick. As bad as pouring rain...maybe worse.

There isn't enough collective conference crossover games to put a true metric on that. All conferences are bad at that but the SEC is the worst of the bunch.

The best weather. Shortest travel. Always a D1AA filler game(s)
and again refusal to play in adverse situations like playing far north in November.

The AP poll hits with the preseason rankings and the popularity contest begins. It's utter bullshit when they act like that has no bearing on the rankings come week 6 or whatever.

If a team starts out unranked they need a miracle to get in.

The media is a trendy group and they love the flavor of the month or week. Always have.

You never named another conference that was better than the SEC.

The reason? There isn’t one.

Or maybe you believe the ACC is stronger than the SEC.

If you’d like to argue that, go ahead.

 

[88ND]

You never named another conference that was better than the SEC.

The reason? There isn’t one.

Or maybe you believe the ACC is stronger than the SEC.

If you’d like to argue that, go ahead.

I never said such...did I?

I merely said the SEC dare not expose itself to adverse conditions.

Funny how that just goes without saying.

Again show me when play above the Mason Dixon line post Halloween.

If you've this gigantic love affair for the SEC then what are you doing on a lowly ND board. Hell we aren't even in a conference.

Here's a good place for you to start...

Search

forums.rivals.com

Just put in SEC in the search window and you should be right at home