Notre Dame’s 5 Star Recruit

[NDAFArly]

For those of you who are upset about not getting a 5 Star, here is the story that explains how ND actually did get one at the most important position (IIO feel free to elaborate on any of this):

About 18 months ago Phil Jurkovec was the 2nd rated QB in the country & a 5 Star top 20 player.
Urban Meyer stalked him. Wanted him as his overall top guy in his recruiting class. Dabo from Clemson & Nick Saban also came a knocking. (Along with pretty much every top coach in the country).

Phil’s Junior year he is lighting it up, then gets injured & misses the rest of the season. He is an All State basketball player too, on a good team that advances deep into the state tournament. So he literally didn’t throw a football for months (because of injury & BB season), when all the other QBs are preparing for camps to raise their stock. Phil attends one camp, is very, very rusty & the recruiting sites drop him to a 4 Star.
Urban jumps all over this & pleads with Phil to come to OSU. That’s when the famous article came out where Phil said he is going to ND no matter what.

Now it’s Phil’s Senior year, when he actually spent the preseason playing football. Phil completes over 74% of his passes, almost 3800 yards, 38 TD’s & just 5 Int, with over 1100 yards rushing with 20 more TD’s.
Keep in mind he didn’t even play the 2nd half in many games. And when he did Pennsylvania has a running clock rule during blowouts, so even shortened halves.
What about the competition you ask? Phil won the 6A State Championship in Pennsylvania, which is ELITE competition. He beat numerous players in the top 300. His team had only him with P5 offers in his class.

He is named the Pennsylvania player of the year, Army All American & one of four finalist for the National Player of the Year.

He then shoots back up the rankings & national analyst predict he will be a 5 Star again.

Here is where it becomes comical.

He plays basketball again, and once again doesn’t touch a football. During the middle of B.B. season he flies out for the Army AA game. Keep in mind they practice for 4 days with coaches & players they don’t know. Phil starts off rusty again, but then starts to light it up as the week progresses.
Then the game comes. He gets 5 snaps. The other QB’s (Lawrence) HS Coach is also the coach of the East squad & Lawrence gets all the snaps. In Phil’s 5 snaps he hands off multiple times, gets drilled from behind when one side of his OL didn’t move on the snap, & underthrows a pass. And he doesn’t play again. Lawrence throws 2 Ints, & has 2 fumbles (one lost).
Lawrence is ranked the #1 overall player in the class, Phil drops 53 spots.

The analyst who work for Rivals sites (for the teams & regionally) have no say in the rankings, which is beyond stupid. A small group of national analyst decide. One such analyst witnessed Phil destroy a nationally ranked team in the playoffs & tweeted out how incredible Phil was. (Adam Friedman). The same analyst then was a key voter to drop Phil 53 spots.
Adam tried defending his stance & was destroyed over it. Even his co-workers posted to him that they were not going to disrespect a co-worker publicly, but “wow.”
His reasoning was even worse than the drop. He actually published that the reason for the drop was Phil’s poor showing in his 5 snaps in an All Star game...
So when questioned why 5 snaps with guys Phil had never played with in a meaningless scrimmage carried so much weight, compared to a record breaking season against elite competition in actual games, he couldn’t defend it. Then he came back & said he puts a lot of weight on playing against other AA’s, to which he was asked about Lawrence being ranked #1 with 2 Ints & fumbles? He then got frustrated.
The ND analysts basically told him he needed to stop trying to defend it because he was making himself look worse.

The site analysts (so the analysts who actually work for Rivals also, but see a lot more film of kids their paid to research...in Phil’s case, ND, OSU, Bama, Clemson, PSU, Midwest & Northeast regional) have Phil ranked as a 5.0/5.0 which means they have him as a current 5 Star with a 5 Star upgrade, which is the highest ranking you can have.

I will roll with Urban, Saban,Dabo, Kelly, Franklin... & actual analyst who watch full seasons of kids, rather than a dude who graded a kid on 5 snaps in a glorified scrimmage with kids he just met.

Phil is a 5 Star at the most important position. Period.

 

[cancandodo]

For those of you who are upset about not getting a 5 Star, here is the story that explains how ND actually did get one at the most important position (IIO feel free to elaborate on any of this):

About 18 months ago Phil Jurkovec was the 2nd rated QB in the country & a 5 Star top 20 player.
Urban Meyer stalked him. Wanted him as his overall top guy in his recruiting class. Dabo from Clemson & Nick Saban also came a knocking. (Along with pretty much every top coach in the country).

Phil’s Junior year he is lighting it up, then gets injured & misses the rest of the season. He is an All State basketball player too, on a good team that advances deep into the state tournament. So he literally didn’t throw a football for months (because of injury & BB season), when all the other QBs are preparing for camps to raise their stock. Phil attends one camp, is very, very rusty & the recruiting sites drop him to a 4 Star.
Urban jumps all over this & pleads with Phil to come to OSU. That’s when the famous article came out where Phil said he is going to ND no matter what.

Now it’s Phil’s Senior year, when he actually spent the preseason playing football. Phil completes over 74% of his passes, almost 3800 yards, 38 TD’s & just 5 Int, with over 1100 yards rushing with 20 more TD’s.
Keep in mind he didn’t even play the 2nd half in many games. And when he did Pennsylvania has a running clock rule during blowouts, so even shortened halves.
What about the competition you ask? Phil won the 6A State Championship in Pennsylvania, which is ELITE competition. He beat numerous players in the top 300. His team had only him with P5 offers in his class.

He is named the Pennsylvania player of the year, Army All American & one of four finalist for the National Player of the Year.

He then shoots back up the rankings & national analyst predict he will be a 5 Star again.

Here is where it becomes comical.

He plays basketball again, and once again doesn’t touch a football. During the middle of B.B. season he flies out for the Army AA game. Keep in mind they practice for 4 days with coaches & players they don’t know. Phil starts off rusty again, but then starts to light it up as the week progresses.
Then the game comes. He gets 5 snaps. The other QB’s (Lawrence) HS Coach is also the coach of the East squad & Lawrence gets all the snaps. In Phil’s 5 snaps he hands off multiple times, gets drilled from behind when one side of his OL didn’t move on the snap, & underthrows a pass. And he doesn’t play again. Lawrence throws 2 Ints, & has 2 fumbles (one lost).
Lawrence is ranked the #1 overall player in the class, Phil drops 53 spots.

The analyst who work for Rivals sites (for the teams & regionally) have no say in the rankings, which is beyond stupid. A small group of national analyst decide. One such analyst witnessed Phil destroy a nationally ranked team in the playoffs & tweeted out how incredible Phil was. (Adam Friedman). The same analyst then was a key voter to drop Phil 53 spots.
Adam tried defending his stance & was destroyed over it. Even his co-workers posted to him that they were not going to disrespect a co-worker publicly, but “wow.”
His reasoning was even worse than the drop. He actually published that the reason for the drop was Phil’s poor showing in his 5 snaps in an All Star game...
So when questioned why 5 snaps with guys Phil had never played with in a meaningless scrimmage carried so much weight, compared to a record breaking season against elite competition in actual games, he couldn’t defend it. Then he came back & said he puts a lot of weight on playing against other AA’s, to which he was asked about Lawrence being ranked #1 with 2 Ints & fumbles? He then got frustrated.
The ND analysts basically told him he needed to stop trying to defend it because he was making himself look worse.

The site analysts (so the analysts who actually work for Rivals also, but see a lot more film of kids their paid to research...in Phil’s case, ND, OSU, Bama, Clemson, PSU, Midwest & Northeast regional) have Phil ranked as a 5.0/5.0 which means they have him as a current 5 Star with a 5 Star upgrade, which is the highest ranking you can have.

I will roll with Urban, Saban,Dabo, Kelly, Franklin... & actual analyst who watch full seasons of kids, rather than a dude who graded a kid on 5 snaps in a glorified scrimmage with kids he just met.

Phil is a 5 Star at the most important position. Period.

EXCELLENT post! Thanks for the perspective.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

Thank you

 

[NDlb46]

For those of you who are upset about not getting a 5 Star, here is the story that explains how ND actually did get one at the most important position (IIO feel free to elaborate on any of this):

About 18 months ago Phil Jurkovec was the 2nd rated QB in the country & a 5 Star top 20 player.
Urban Meyer stalked him. Wanted him as his overall top guy in his recruiting class. Dabo from Clemson & Nick Saban also came a knocking. (Along with pretty much every top coach in the country).

Phil’s Junior year he is lighting it up, then gets injured & misses the rest of the season. He is an All State basketball player too, on a good team that advances deep into the state tournament. So he literally didn’t throw a football for months (because of injury & BB season), when all the other QBs are preparing for camps to raise their stock. Phil attends one camp, is very, very rusty & the recruiting sites drop him to a 4 Star.
Urban jumps all over this & pleads with Phil to come to OSU. That’s when the famous article came out where Phil said he is going to ND no matter what.

Now it’s Phil’s Senior year, when he actually spent the preseason playing football. Phil completes over 74% of his passes, almost 3800 yards, 38 TD’s & just 5 Int, with over 1100 yards rushing with 20 more TD’s.
Keep in mind he didn’t even play the 2nd half in many games. And when he did Pennsylvania has a running clock rule during blowouts, so even shortened halves.
What about the competition you ask? Phil won the 6A State Championship in Pennsylvania, which is ELITE competition. He beat numerous players in the top 300. His team had only him with P5 offers in his class.

He is named the Pennsylvania player of the year, Army All American & one of four finalist for the National Player of the Year.

He then shoots back up the rankings & national analyst predict he will be a 5 Star again.

Here is where it becomes comical.

He plays basketball again, and once again doesn’t touch a football. During the middle of B.B. season he flies out for the Army AA game. Keep in mind they practice for 4 days with coaches & players they don’t know. Phil starts off rusty again, but then starts to light it up as the week progresses.
Then the game comes. He gets 5 snaps. The other QB’s (Lawrence) HS Coach is also the coach of the East squad & Lawrence gets all the snaps. In Phil’s 5 snaps he hands off multiple times, gets drilled from behind when one side of his OL didn’t move on the snap, & underthrows a pass. And he doesn’t play again. Lawrence throws 2 Ints, & has 2 fumbles (one lost).
Lawrence is ranked the #1 overall player in the class, Phil drops 53 spots.

The analyst who work for Rivals sites (for the teams & regionally) have no say in the rankings, which is beyond stupid. A small group of national analyst decide. One such analyst witnessed Phil destroy a nationally ranked team in the playoffs & tweeted out how incredible Phil was. (Adam Friedman). The same analyst then was a key voter to drop Phil 53 spots.
Adam tried defending his stance & was destroyed over it. Even his co-workers posted to him that they were not going to disrespect a co-worker publicly, but “wow.”
His reasoning was even worse than the drop. He actually published that the reason for the drop was Phil’s poor showing in his 5 snaps in an All Star game...
So when questioned why 5 snaps with guys Phil had never played with in a meaningless scrimmage carried so much weight, compared to a record breaking season against elite competition in actual games, he couldn’t defend it. Then he came back & said he puts a lot of weight on playing against other AA’s, to which he was asked about Lawrence being ranked #1 with 2 Ints & fumbles? He then got frustrated.
The ND analysts basically told him he needed to stop trying to defend it because he was making himself look worse.

The site analysts (so the analysts who actually work for Rivals also, but see a lot more film of kids their paid to research...in Phil’s case, ND, OSU, Bama, Clemson, PSU, Midwest & Northeast regional) have Phil ranked as a 5.0/5.0 which means they have him as a current 5 Star with a 5 Star upgrade, which is the highest ranking you can have.

I will roll with Urban, Saban,Dabo, Kelly, Franklin... & actual analyst who watch full seasons of kids, rather than a dude who graded a kid on 5 snaps in a glorified scrimmage with kids he just met.

Phil is a 5 Star at the most important position. Period.

But...but...but...Kelly and his staff sucks!! Totally sucks. We are a terrible team. 8 wins at best every year...

 

[NDAFArly]

EXCELLENT post! Thanks for the perspective.

No problem.
I know a lot of people don’t follow recruiting until now & maybe don’t know how it works.

That’s why I cringe when people don’t watch film, or take the time to learn about a recruit, but then just talk about them solely on a ranking.
They change the rankings all the time even when no football had been played. Thet released rankings last week with zero football played since the prior rankings, a guys jumped & lowered 20-30 spots for no reason.
So they could do it again tomorrow if they wanted. If they made 5 of ND’s recruits 5 Stars tomorrow does that mean they are better than they were today?

They have 3-5 guys who decide these rankings. These guys don’t even see the majority of the recruits play.
Ademilola was rated an A+ at the Opening Finals & rated much higher than his peers when going against elite competition. The DL & OL actually put on pads & hit. So he was going agsinst 5 Star OL & dominating. But Rivals & 247 & so on don’t have scouts there, so they give it zero weight because it’s not their event.

The 2015 USC Class was ranked #1 or #2 by l the sites & had four to six 5 Stars depending on the site. That class was Juniors this year & ND boat-raced them 49-14.

Some people get worked up over an arbitrary ranking without seeing the kids play. They will cite teams who won titles & how 5 Stars they had. But a lot of those guys aren’t the reason they won. OSU’s secondary that put three guys in the first two rounds last year were a 2 Star & two 3 Stars. They had 5 Star players on their roster, but they got passed up.
Clemson went to back to back title games, & now is loaded with 5 Star recruits. But the 3 classes that made up those two teams had one 5 Star who started both years.

I would put Phil, Allen, Ademilola Austin & Lamb up with any top 5 in the country.

 

[IrishInOntario]

No problem.
I know a lot of people don’t follow recruiting until now & maybe don’t know how it works.

That’s why I cringe when people don’t watch film, or take the time to learn about a recruit, but then just talk about them solely on a ranking.
They change the rankings all the time even when no football had been played. Thet released rankings last week with zero football played since the prior rankings, a guys jumped & lowered 20-30 spots for no reason.
So they could do it again tomorrow if they wanted. If they made 5 of ND’s recruits 5 Stars tomorrow does that mean they are better than they were today?

They have 3-5 guys who decide these rankings. These guys don’t even see the majority of the recruits play.
Ademilola was rated an A+ at the Opening Finals & rated much higher than his peers when going against elite competition. The DL & OL actually put on pads & hit. So he was going agsinst 5 Star OL & dominating. But Rivals & 247 & so on don’t have scouts there, so they give it zero weight because it’s not their event.

The 2015 USC Class was ranked #1 or #2 by l the sites & had four to six 5 Stars depending on the site. That class was Juniors this year & ND boat-raced them 49-14.

Some people get worked up over an arbitrary ranking without seeing the kids play. They will cite teams who won titles & how 5 Stars they had. But a lot of those guys aren’t the reason they won. OSU’s secondary that put three guys in the first two rounds last year were a 2 Star & two 3 Stars. They had 5 Star players on their roster, but they got passed up.
Clemson went to back to back title games, & now is loaded with 5 Star recruits. But the 3 classes that made up those two teams had one 5 Star who started both years.

I would put Phil, Allen, Ademilola Austin & Lamb up with any top 5 in the country.

I agree with you that Phil could be a 5 star performer. I also think Jayson Ademilola is the best 3-tech in the country and should also be a 5 star player.

As for your argument that you'd put the 5 you listed up against any other 5 in the nation, I'd disgree with you on Lamb in the top 5. I'd take Shayne Simon over Jack Lamb every single day. That isn't a slight at Lamb, I simply think Simon has more upside than Tranquill at Rover or Buvk amd that's saying a lot.

Also, if Clemson called and wanted to trade

Trevor Lawrence (#1 QB, #1 overall)
Xavier Thomas (#1 SDE, #3 overall)
KJ Henry (#3 WDE, #14 overall)
Jackson Carman (#2 OT, #16 overall)
Derion Kendrick (#4 WR, #26 overall)

I'd take that trade running away. Now, I doubt they'd make it academically at ND, but in terms of talent and ability on a football field.... Hell yes.

 

[zonairish]

No problem.
I know a lot of people don’t follow recruiting until now & maybe don’t know how it works.

That’s why I cringe when people don’t watch film, or take the time to learn about a recruit, but then just talk about them solely on a ranking.
They change the rankings all the time even when no football had been played. Thet released rankings last week with zero football played since the prior rankings, a guys jumped & lowered 20-30 spots for no reason.
So they could do it again tomorrow if they wanted. If they made 5 of ND’s recruits 5 Stars tomorrow does that mean they are better than they were today?

They have 3-5 guys who decide these rankings. These guys don’t even see the majority of the recruits play.
Ademilola was rated an A+ at the Opening Finals & rated much higher than his peers when going against elite competition. The DL & OL actually put on pads & hit. So he was going agsinst 5 Star OL & dominating. But Rivals & 247 & so on don’t have scouts there, so they give it zero weight because it’s not their event.

The 2015 USC Class was ranked #1 or #2 by l the sites & had four to six 5 Stars depending on the site. That class was Juniors this year & ND boat-raced them 49-14.

Some people get worked up over an arbitrary ranking without seeing the kids play. They will cite teams who won titles & how 5 Stars they had. But a lot of those guys aren’t the reason they won. OSU’s secondary that put three guys in the first two rounds last year were a 2 Star & two 3 Stars. They had 5 Star players on their roster, but they got passed up.
Clemson went to back to back title games, & now is loaded with 5 Star recruits. But the 3 classes that made up those two teams had one 5 Star who started both years.

I would put Phil, Allen, Ademilola Austin & Lamb up with any top 5 in the country.

What you wrote in this thread makes a lot of sense. Would say that there is a lot of politics in the rankings? Just to be fair to these so-called evaluators there are way too many players to do it justice so they have to depend on trusted sources for a lot of these opinions and valuations. For instance, you take a pro player like Carson Wentz who received 0 D1 offers. He has talent but because he is not doing the circuit and no one is pushing the potential stardom he gets overlooked. in some players cases, it is not that extreme but you do not have the advocates or you may not do all the circuits.

 

[NDAFArly]

I agree with you that Phil could be a 5 star performer. I also think Jayson Ademilola is the best 3-tech in the country and should also be a 5 star player.

As for your argument that you'd put the 5 you listed up against any other 5 in the nation, I'd disgree with you on Lamb in the top 5. I'd take Shayne Simon over Jack Lamb every single day. That isn't a slight at Lamb, I simply think Simon has more upside than Tranquill at Rover or Buvk amd that's saying a lot.

Also, if Clemson called and wanted to trade

Trevor Lawrence (#1 QB, #1 overall)
Xavier Thomas (#1 SDE, #3 overall)
KJ Henry (#3 WDE, #14 overall)
Jackson Carman (#2 OT, #16 overall)
Derion Kendrick (#4 WR, #26 overall)

I'd take that trade running away. Now, I doubt they'd make it academically at ND, but in terms of talent and ability on a football field.... Hell yes.

I’m a HUGE fan of Simon. One of my favorite recruits & I would personally put him in that group. I just put Lamb in because a lot of people have been convincing me how great he is at multiple positions.
And I made sure not to say ND’s best 5 are better than anyone’s, just that I would put them “up with” any other. And Lawrence at Clemson still kind of baffles me? He isn’t the prototype Dabo QB?
I also think Bracy is the sleeper in the class.

 

[echowaker]

What you wrote in this thread makes a lot of sense. Would say that there is a lot of politics in the rankings? Just to be fair to these so-called evaluators there are way too many players to do it justice so they have to depend on trusted sources for a lot of these opinions and valuations. For instance, you take a pro player like Carson Wentz who received 0 D1 offers. He has talent but because he is not doing the circuit and no one is pushing the potential stardom he gets overlooked. in some players cases, it is not that extreme but you do not have the advocates or you may not do all the circuits.

its about making money first and foremost with those sites and thats fine. treating their opinions as gospel is short sighted and silly.

 

[scubastevefl]

Wayne Gretzky wrote an article years ago, about how playing other sports helped in his development as a hockey player.

 

[justified1]

No problem.
I know a lot of people don’t follow recruiting until now & maybe don’t know how it works.

That’s why I cringe when people don’t watch film, or take the time to learn about a recruit, but then just talk about them solely on a ranking.
They change the rankings all the time even when no football had been played. Thet released rankings last week with zero football played since the prior rankings, a guys jumped & lowered 20-30 spots for no reason.
So they could do it again tomorrow if they wanted. If they made 5 of ND’s recruits 5 Stars tomorrow does that mean they are better than they were today?

They have 3-5 guys who decide these rankings. These guys don’t even see the majority of the recruits play.
Ademilola was rated an A+ at the Opening Finals & rated much higher than his peers when going against elite competition. The DL & OL actually put on pads & hit. So he was going agsinst 5 Star OL & dominating. But Rivals & 247 & so on don’t have scouts there, so they give it zero weight because it’s not their event.

The 2015 USC Class was ranked #1 or #2 by l the sites & had four to six 5 Stars depending on the site. That class was Juniors this year & ND boat-raced them 49-14.

Some people get worked up over an arbitrary ranking without seeing the kids play. They will cite teams who won titles & how 5 Stars they had. But a lot of those guys aren’t the reason they won. OSU’s secondary that put three guys in the first two rounds last year were a 2 Star & two 3 Stars. They had 5 Star players on their roster, but they got passed up.
Clemson went to back to back title games, & now is loaded with 5 Star recruits. But the 3 classes that made up those two teams had one 5 Star who started both years.

I would put Phil, Allen, Ademilola Austin & Lamb up with any top 5 in the country.

Well, there may be as you state ‘3-5’ guys determining the rankings, but apparently they have credibility with Saban, Meyer, Smart and Dabo.. Those head coaches were hot after those players rated ‘best’ by those 3-5 guys. Why not? Those 3-5 guys were able to predict many of the players that helped 3 of those coaches into the playoff, with the forth missing out by 1 spot. But you only dwell on OU. Just a guess, but for ‘19, I bet those same four coaches, AND, whoever is the ND head coach (presumably Kelly) will be in hot pursuit of thos 5* prospects identified by those 3-5 guys!

“I would put Phil, Allen, Ademilola Austin & Lamb up with any top 5 in the country.[/QUOTE]”
Rediculous!

 

[NDAFArly]

Well, there may be as you state ‘3-5’ guys determining the rankings, but apparently they have credibility with Saban, Meyer, Smart and Dabo.. Those head coaches were hot after those players rated ‘best’ by those 3-5 guys. Why not? Those 3-5 guys were able to predict many of the players that helped 3 of those coaches into the playoff, with the forth missing out by 1 spot. But you only dwell on OU. Just a guess, but for ‘19, I bet those same four coaches, AND, whoever is the ND head coach (presumably Kelly) will be in hot pursuit of thos 5* prospects identified by those 3-5 guys!

“I would put Phil, Allen, Ademilola Austin & Lamb up with any top 5 in the country.

”
Rediculous![/QUOTE]

Who said anything about OU?
And no, those coaches don’t care about those 3-5 guys, it’s the exact other way around.
Saban had no clue who Langham was until ND offered & did an in-home. The next day (literally) Saban showed up at his house with an offer in person. He was pissed a kid in Alabama slipped past his scouts & watched his film & decided the kid was a stud. The recruiting sites had him a 2 Star, then a low 3 Star. After Bama’s offer they moved him up to a 4 Star. No football played, but if ND & Bama both offered then he must be good.

The coaches & programs’ scout & rank kids long before recruiting sites do. The recruiting sites base initial rankings a lot off coaches’ input & scouting. Urban Meyer was recruiting Phil long before any rankings came out on his class.
ND has already sent out over a dozen offers to the 2020 class. There are no rankings for them. And ND will put out another dozen offers before there will be.

And it’s not ridiculous at all what I said. ESPN, Rivals & 247 have all published articles now naming the best impact classes & ND is in all of them.
I would be interested in your opinion of those 5 & their peers?

 

[HarlemIrish]

But...but...but...Kelly and his staff sucks!! Totally sucks. We are a terrible team. 8 wins at best every year...

Excellent post by the OP. ^^^^^^^ Conflating

 

[HarlemIrish]

For those of you who are upset about not getting a 5 Star, here is the story that explains how ND actually did get one at the most important position (IIO feel free to elaborate on any of this):

About 18 months ago Phil Jurkovec was the 2nd rated QB in the country & a 5 Star top 20 player.
Urban Meyer stalked him. Wanted him as his overall top guy in his recruiting class. Dabo from Clemson & Nick Saban also came a knocking. (Along with pretty much every top coach in the country).

Phil’s Junior year he is lighting it up, then gets injured & misses the rest of the season. He is an All State basketball player too, on a good team that advances deep into the state tournament. So he literally didn’t throw a football for months (because of injury & BB season), when all the other QBs are preparing for camps to raise their stock. Phil attends one camp, is very, very rusty & the recruiting sites drop him to a 4 Star.
Urban jumps all over this & pleads with Phil to come to OSU. That’s when the famous article came out where Phil said he is going to ND no matter what.

Now it’s Phil’s Senior year, when he actually spent the preseason playing football. Phil completes over 74% of his passes, almost 3800 yards, 38 TD’s & just 5 Int, with over 1100 yards rushing with 20 more TD’s.
Keep in mind he didn’t even play the 2nd half in many games. And when he did Pennsylvania has a running clock rule during blowouts, so even shortened halves.
What about the competition you ask? Phil won the 6A State Championship in Pennsylvania, which is ELITE competition. He beat numerous players in the top 300. His team had only him with P5 offers in his class.

He is named the Pennsylvania player of the year, Army All American & one of four finalist for the National Player of the Year.

He then shoots back up the rankings & national analyst predict he will be a 5 Star again.

Here is where it becomes comical.

He plays basketball again, and once again doesn’t touch a football. During the middle of B.B. season he flies out for the Army AA game. Keep in mind they practice for 4 days with coaches & players they don’t know. Phil starts off rusty again, but then starts to light it up as the week progresses.
Then the game comes. He gets 5 snaps. The other QB’s (Lawrence) HS Coach is also the coach of the East squad & Lawrence gets all the snaps. In Phil’s 5 snaps he hands off multiple times, gets drilled from behind when one side of his OL didn’t move on the snap, & underthrows a pass. And he doesn’t play again. Lawrence throws 2 Ints, & has 2 fumbles (one lost).
Lawrence is ranked the #1 overall player in the class, Phil drops 53 spots.

The analyst who work for Rivals sites (for the teams & regionally) have no say in the rankings, which is beyond stupid. A small group of national analyst decide. One such analyst witnessed Phil destroy a nationally ranked team in the playoffs & tweeted out how incredible Phil was. (Adam Friedman). The same analyst then was a key voter to drop Phil 53 spots.
Adam tried defending his stance & was destroyed over it. Even his co-workers posted to him that they were not going to disrespect a co-worker publicly, but “wow.”
His reasoning was even worse than the drop. He actually published that the reason for the drop was Phil’s poor showing in his 5 snaps in an All Star game...
So when questioned why 5 snaps with guys Phil had never played with in a meaningless scrimmage carried so much weight, compared to a record breaking season against elite competition in actual games, he couldn’t defend it. Then he came back & said he puts a lot of weight on playing against other AA’s, to which he was asked about Lawrence being ranked #1 with 2 Ints & fumbles? He then got frustrated.
The ND analysts basically told him he needed to stop trying to defend it because he was making himself look worse.

The site analysts (so the analysts who actually work for Rivals also, but see a lot more film of kids their paid to research...in Phil’s case, ND, OSU, Bama, Clemson, PSU, Midwest & Northeast regional) have Phil ranked as a 5.0/5.0 which means they have him as a current 5 Star with a 5 Star upgrade, which is the highest ranking you can have.

I will roll with Urban, Saban,Dabo, Kelly, Franklin... & actual analyst who watch full seasons of kids, rather than a dude who graded a kid on 5 snaps in a glorified scrimmage with kids he just met.

Phil is a 5 Star at the most important position. Period.

Very good read!

 

[HarlemIrish]

I agree with you that Phil could be a 5 star performer. I also think Jayson Ademilola is the best 3-tech in the country and should also be a 5 star player.

As for your argument that you'd put the 5 you listed up against any other 5 in the nation, I'd disgree with you on Lamb in the top 5. I'd take Shayne Simon over Jack Lamb every single day. That isn't a slight at Lamb, I simply think Simon has more upside than Tranquill at Rover or Buvk amd that's saying a lot.

Also, if Clemson called and wanted to trade

Trevor Lawrence (#1 QB, #1 overall)
Xavier Thomas (#1 SDE, #3 overall)
KJ Henry (#3 WDE, #14 overall)
Jackson Carman (#2 OT, #16 overall)
Derion Kendrick (#4 WR, #26 overall)

I'd take that trade running away. Now, I doubt they'd make it academically at ND, but in terms of talent and ability on a football field.... Hell yes.

In your opinion which school had the #1 class? You seem to follow the recruiting aspect a ton.

 

[IrishInOntario]

In your opinion which school had the #1 class? You seem to follow the recruiting aspect a ton.

Georgia landed the best class on paper in modern recruiting history. 16 of their recruits ranked in the top 5 at their position. 4 of their recruits ranked #1 at their position. Another 3 ranked #2 at their position. A total of 7 star players and 13 composite top 100 players.

The best class I've ever seen...

Justin Fields
Zamir White
Cade Mays
Jamaree Salyer
Tyson Campbell
Adam Anderson
Brenton Cox
Quay Walker
James Cook
Luke Ford
Trey Hill

Good lawd...

 

[justified1]

”
Rediculous!

Who said anything about OU?
And no, those coaches don’t care about those 3-5 guys, it’s the exact other way around.
Saban had no clue who Langham was until ND offered & did an in-home. The next day (literally) Saban showed up at his house with an offer in person. He was pissed a kid in Alabama slipped past his scouts & watched his film & decided the kid was a stud. The recruiting sites had him a 2 Star, then a low 3 Star. After Bama’s offer they moved him up to a 4 Star. No football played, but if ND & Bama both offered then he must be good.

The coaches & programs’ scout & rank kids long before recruiting sites do. The recruiting sites base initial rankings a lot off coaches’ input & scouting. Urban Meyer was recruiting Phil long before any rankings came out on his class.
ND has already sent out over a dozen offers to the 2020 class. There are no rankings for them. And ND will put out another dozen offers before there will be.

And it’s not ridiculous at all what I said. ESPN, Rivals & 247 have all published articles now naming the best impact classes & ND is in all of them.
I would be interested in your opinion of those 5 & their peers?[/QUOTE]

You just can’t figure it out. The 3-5 guys (which itself is a falsehood) and the prominent head coaches, and the camps, and the way other prospects react and respond to each other, plus the actual game performances are factors in how the pecking order for a class is ultimately determined. It is not any one factor at all. You can’t pick 1 kid out of thousands to make a determination of ranking validity.

The ‘rediculous’ part was you naming the ND players and equating them to be equal to the top 5 for any other class. You need to rethink that statement. Who would be your top 5 top top fives? Bear in mind ND’s highest rated player is Griffith at #70. About 60% of the top 50 went to 5 teams (not incl Ala.).
This is not a knock on the ND players, but a questioning of your outlandish statement. I have been reading your postings with great respect but that one is just over the top ‘homer’.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

Georgia landed the best class on paper in modern recruiting history. 16 of their recruits ranked in the top 5 at their position. 4 of their recruits ranked #1 at their position. Another 3 ranked #2 at their position. A total of 7 star players and 13 composite top 100 players.

The best class I've ever seen...

Justin Fields
Zamir White
Cade Mays
Jamaree Salyer
Tyson Campbell
Adam Anderson
Brenton Cox
Quay Walker
James Cook
Luke Ford
Trey Hill

Good lawd...

They better win a natty, or the sh&t will really hit the fan in GA

 

[NDlb46]

Excellent post by the OP. ^^^^^^^ Conflating

I was just being snarky about those with that mindset and stooped to a lower level than I usually do. My bad.

 

[NDAFArly]

Who said anything about OU?
And no, those coaches don’t care about those 3-5 guys, it’s the exact other way around.
Saban had no clue who Langham was until ND offered & did an in-home. The next day (literally) Saban showed up at his house with an offer in person. He was pissed a kid in Alabama slipped past his scouts & watched his film & decided the kid was a stud. The recruiting sites had him a 2 Star, then a low 3 Star. After Bama’s offer they moved him up to a 4 Star. No football played, but if ND & Bama both offered then he must be good.

The coaches & programs’ scout & rank kids long before recruiting sites do. The recruiting sites base initial rankings a lot off coaches’ input & scouting. Urban Meyer was recruiting Phil long before any rankings came out on his class.
ND has already sent out over a dozen offers to the 2020 class. There are no rankings for them. And ND will put out another dozen offers before there will be.

And it’s not ridiculous at all what I said. ESPN, Rivals & 247 have all published articles now naming the best impact classes & ND is in all of them.
I would be interested in your opinion of those 5 & their peers?

Lol. Can’t figure it out?
Falsehood? They come on the site & I can name the Rivals team who makes the rankings. By name. It’s not a secret. They were all just on after their final rankings came out. They decide the official rankings for Rivals.
The other employees (like who you are suggesting) do not have say. This bothers them a lot. The ND & two regional (Midwest & northeast) employees removed themselves from the conversation last week subscribers had with the decision makers about Phil because they were pissed about it. The employees of Rivals who actually personally watched every game of Phil’s in person & reviewed his film didn’t have a say in his ranking. That caused friction last week.

As for the “homer” statement.

First, HG isn’t close to being the best player in this class, regardless of where he is ranked.
The players I named were players the elite (Bama, OSU, Clemson, USC, UM, PSU, Texas, OU, FSU, etc...) were going at hard & had at top priority for their classes.
If Phil committed to OSU or was uncommitted until NSD he would’ve been a 5.
Ademilola is the best at his position in the country. Nick Saban stalked him. At the Opening Finals he dominated 5 Star OL & was the best DT there, which means something because the OL & DL are the only ones actually in pads playing football.
Kevin Austin was the guy many had as the overall most developed in the class for size, strength, speed, hands, maturity. People threw out “Michael Floyd” when describing him.
The local & national analyst think Austin will get a shot at Safety as a Freshman, on a team that returns 10 starters on D.

The following are actual quotes from a paid employee of Rivals (who watches film of all the recruits) about ND’s recruiting class:

“There is no way there are 10 better classes in the country than Notre Dame's.”

Then when asked about name marquee & how it affects rankings:

“I'll take Notre Dame's class over Penn State's every day of the week and twice on Saturday. They have a better class than Alabama in my opinion as well. I'd take all four of ND's current OL over Tommy Brown and Ekil Ekiyor. I'd take ND's QB, WR's, TE's, OL's, LB's and DB's over Alabama's. Same with DT's. Only area where Bama's class is better on film - not on paper - is at DE. Their DE class is truly outstanding. Watch the film and tell me I'm wrong.
Go watch the film of the Alabama class and come back and tell me they are better at any position besides DE and corner.”

Then when challenged about rankings agsinst Bama:

“You've watched all their films? I have. I'm not talking about star rankings, I'm talking about their film. How am I undervaluing Waddle? You've never even heard me talk about him, you have no clue what I would rank him. But even as a 5-star, I'm taking ND's 4-man group that has 3 WR's ranked as Top 150 players by at least one service and a 4th (Jones) who is a Top 200 recruit. I wouldn't trade their one 3-star RB (who is a good player) for ND's 2 RB's. They didn't even sign a QB while I believe ND got a 5-star QB. I wouldn't trade their TE for either one of ND's tight ends. Harry Hiestand didn't even try to recruit Tommy Brown, who begged ND for an offer. Same with Emil Ekiyor. He liked Cole Mabry and John Dirksen better. I'd take ND's OL class over theirs any day of the week.

I'll take ND's 4 LB's over Alabama's 1, who is a 2-star. Alabama signed 1 DT, he was an unranked 4-star recruit while ND had a Rivals250 recruit and Ja'Mion Franklin, if stars are your thing. Alabama had a better CB class, Notre Dame had a far better safety class. If you want to talk about rankings, their best safety was ranked No. 227 (Josh Jobe). Notre Dame had 2 safeties ranked higher than that.
Alabama blows away Notre Dame's DE class, no question about it. That's a great DE class.
But please, watch the film of those kids and tell me where I'm wrong.”

That is from an actual Rivals paid analyst who watches the kids play & evaluates their film.

He’a right too. Some Bama kids get huge upgrades because of Bama. I’ve seen the Ekiyor kid play every snap at Cathedral & he was maybe a 3 Star kid. HH (who is the elite of elite scouting OL) didn’t even offer him for ND. Michigan swooped in a got him. Bama missed on their top 3 OL recruits & go flip Ekiyor from UM & now all of a sudden he is a stud top 10 OL at his position? Lol.

Some schools above ND loaded up at 1 or 2 positions but struck out at others. It’s like getting three 5 Star QBs in a class. Your class ranking will be awesome but two aren’t playing (probably transferring).
Bama destroyed the DE & CB positions, but overall not an elite Bama class & not balanced. Saban even admitted so at his presser. ND’s overall class is better than Bama’s. I know that is hard to believe.

 

[twalsh]

Wayne Gretzky wrote an article years ago, about how playing other sports helped in his development as a hockey player.

The majority of NHL players also played soccer growing up, many played it at a high level.

 

[thehellyousay]

Wayne Gretzky wrote an article years ago, about how playing other sports helped in his development as a hockey player.

Montana won a state championship in hoops - he almost went to NC State because they were going to let him play basketball as well as football...

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Who said anything about OU?
And no, those coaches don’t care about those 3-5 guys, it’s the exact other way around.
Saban had no clue who Langham was until ND offered & did an in-home. The next day (literally) Saban showed up at his house with an offer in person. He was pissed a kid in Alabama slipped past his scouts & watched his film & decided the kid was a stud. The recruiting sites had him a 2 Star, then a low 3 Star. After Bama’s offer they moved him up to a 4 Star. No football played, but if ND & Bama both offered then he must be good.

The coaches & programs’ scout & rank kids long before recruiting sites do. The recruiting sites base initial rankings a lot off coaches’ input & scouting. Urban Meyer was recruiting Phil long before any rankings came out on his class.
ND has already sent out over a dozen offers to the 2020 class. There are no rankings for them. And ND will put out another dozen offers before there will be.

And it’s not ridiculous at all what I said. ESPN, Rivals & 247 have all published articles now naming the best impact classes & ND is in all of them.
I would be interested in your opinion of those 5 & their peers?

You just can’t figure it out. The 3-5 guys (which itself is a falsehood) and the prominent head coaches, and the camps, and the way other prospects react and respond to each other, plus the actual game performances are factors in how the pecking order for a class is ultimately determined. It is not any one factor at all. You can’t pick 1 kid out of thousands to make a determination of ranking validity.

The ‘rediculous’ part was you naming the ND players and equating them to be equal to the top 5 for any other class. You need to rethink that statement. Who would be your top 5 top top fives? Bear in mind ND’s highest rated player is Griffith at #70. About 60% of the top 50 went to 5 teams (not incl Ala.).
This is not a knock on the ND players, but a questioning of your outlandish statement. I have been reading your postings with great respect but that one is just over the top ‘homer’.

If anyone had any doubts about the Justified/Perse connection I mean this is pretty clear. That being said, perse has a legit point.

 

[HarlemIrish]

I was just being snarky about those with that mindset and stooped to a lower level than I usually do. My bad.

Can't post here. Lou S. wrote an excellent piece on where BK is. Go to the archives and it explains both sides pretty well.

 

[NDAFArly]

If anyone had any doubts about the Justified/Perse connection I mean this is pretty clear. That being said, perse has a legit point.

What point is that?

The coaches put together their recruit big boards a full year before national sites put together rankings.
Teams are already offering 2020 kids with no rankings yet.
Watch how many guys pop up as 5 Stars that Bama, ND, OSU, Clemson, etc offered.

The sites don’t start from ground zero, they start from looking at offers to decide who to analyze & rank.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

What point is that?

The coaches put together their recruit big boards a full year before national sites put together rankings.
Teams are already offering 2020 kids with no rankings yet.
Watch how many guys pop up as 5 Stars that Bama, ND, OSU, Clemson, etc offered.

The sites don’t start from ground zero, they start from looking at offers to decide who to analyze & rank.

Please be more salty about anyone who doesn't agree or say exactly what you say about recruiting man. It is crazy to say our top 5 matches up with anyone in the country... it is possible to be positive about our recruiting class and not over the top. There is empirical evidence that shows the rankings are more often correct then not so does it matter wheher or not those rankings are edited by 3 people or 15?

 

[NDlb46]

Can't post here. Lou S. wrote an excellent piece on where BK is. Go to the archives and it explains both sides pretty well.

Ok, I think we are having two different conversations.

As a fan, I'm happy with the changes made over the last year and a half. I want to see it continue because it showed positive gains not just for the program and wins, but also for the development of the players. I thought yesterday's recruiting haul was great. It's always good to see your team get good talent and surprising picks on NSD.

As a fan, I have no control over the program, direction, or choices...duh. But there are others on the board that rail day in and day out as if they could make some kind of change or mutiny actually happen. And some of them will continue to harp from a negative standpoint, which they did yesterday. Hence my post, which as I said, was snarky of me towards them and I stooped to a low level.

I really don't follow what you are fishing for in your comments. You said that I can't post here. Well, I can post here because it's a free online message board. Lou's previous article was a good one. But I get what I can control and what I can't. I'm not going to sour my life over things that I can't control. So, I recognize the good and thoroughly enjoy the good. The bad, the critical, and the hot-take/click-bait is simply not for me.

Essentially, what I'm getting at is...did I confuse you on my stance with my poorly sarcastic post? If true, like I said before, I apologize. I don't know how much clearer I can be at this point. I don't get what you are trying to push. I made a tongue in cheek comment because I was exhausted by those constantly touting how terrible BK is even though they can't do anything about it. The OP's story is spot on and a reality check for the internet research recruiters with their butts stuck in their chairs. I'm with the OP, the story, Phil J., and the sharing of just a glimpse into what recruiting is actually like outside of the sponsored websites and events. Are you with that too?

 

[NDAFArly]

Please be more salty about anyone who doesn't agree or say exactly what you say about recruiting man. It is crazy to say our top 5 matches up with anyone in the country... it is possible to be positive about our recruiting class and not over the top. There is empirical evidence that shows the rankings are more often correct then not so does it matter wheher or not those rankings are edited by 3 people or 15?

Not salty at all. Could care less what people’s opinions are, especially if they don’t take the time to understand how it works.
So I try to help them out & leave it at that & move on.

So I will help out with links so you don’t have to search yourself.

2020 offers went out this week.

Here are ND’s offers that have gone out for 2020:

https://notredame.rivals.com/offers/football/2020

Notice how none have rankings?

Now if you go to look at the composite (when clicking on their name) you will also see no rankings, but 247 for their site has a few players ranked, but not all, weird, huh?

https://247sports.com/college/notre-dame/Season/2020-Football/Targets

Those players weren’t ranked after the season ended. But now they are this week. Why? Look at their offers. The kids that were unranked after the season but got offers from the big boys are all of a sudden ranked, but none of the others are. And not just ranked, but 5 Stars (the guys with offers from the blue bloods). So that is their baseline, & will go up & down from there.

The recruiting services didn’t watch these kids, the teams coaches & scouts did. Then after the offers the sites hurried up & gave them 4 & 5 Stars.

If you watch it you will see it changes as kids get offers over the next couple weeks.

I will leave it at that & you guys have fun.

P.S.
You will notice only about 100 kids nationally have a rank, & they are all high ranks. Either 247 is the luckiest people on earth to just happen to watch the best 100 players only, orrrrrrr...... they just looked at the offers, threw on 30 seconds of film of the kid & said, yep that kid looks good, 5 Star.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Not salty at all. Could care less what people’s opinions are, especially if they don’t take the time to understand how it works.
So I try to help them out & leave it at that & move on.

So I will help out with links so you don’t have to search yourself.

2020 offers went out this week.

Here are ND’s offers that have gone out for 2020:

https://notredame.rivals.com/offers/football/2020

Notice how none have rankings?

Now if you go to look at the composite (when clicking on their name) you will also see no rankings, but 247 for their site has a few players ranked, but not all, weird, huh?

https://247sports.com/college/notre-dame/Season/2020-Football/Targets

Those players weren’t ranked after the season ended. But now they are this week. Why? Look at their offers. The kids that were unranked after the season but got offers from the big boys are all of a sudden ranked, but none of the others are. And not just ranked, but 5 Stars (the guys with offers from the blue bloods). So that is their baseline, & will go up & down from there.

The recruiting services didn’t watch these kids, the teams coaches & scouts did. Then after the offers the sites hurried up & gave them 4 & 5 Stars.

If you watch it you will see it changes as kids get offers over the next couple weeks.

I will leave it at that & you guys have fun.

Dude anytime anyone disagrees with you or says something you think is incorrect you feel like you just gotta chirp. Doesnt really matter how the ranking system is developed if the empirics show it is more often right then wrong.

 

[chaseball]

We still have homers trying to disprove the accuracy of recruiting ratings in 2018? smh. 24/7 composite is a consolidation of all major recruiting services' ratings. There's no better objective resource (public-available) than the collective opinions of all the major recruiting services.

Who cares what their methodology is ? There's a major correlation between teams winning national championships and teams at the top of the recruiting rankings.

I think if I compiled ALL of my posts on this site, I could have written a novel on the subject already.

ND recruits in the lower teens on average, and their results on the field given their schedule is commensurate with that class ranking.

ND: 8 or 9 wins, 3 or 4 losses with a class ranking of 12.5 on average.

This year we hit 9 regular season wins, and our class rank was 10th (with the schools ranked 11th & 12th right behind us very close in overall points).

Pointing out a single recruit who might be underrated doesn't change that. Pointing out some individual opinions of NDs class on the "premium" board from Rivals analysts doesn't change that either.

Give me the macro level opinion/consolidated view of ALL sites ratings that 24/7 provides over some individual homer comments on NDs premium board any day of the week.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

The rankings can't be accurate if the methodology isn't based on in-person evaluations or something. Like I don't even get it.

 

[chaseball]

The rankings can't be accurate if the methodology isn't based on in-person evaluations or something. Like I don't even get it.

247Sports has one of the industry’s largest and most recognized national recruiting staffs. Led by industry veterans Barton Simmons and Jerry Meyer (basketball), 247Sports employs a staff of more than 50 reporters, analysts and evaluators that rank the nation’s elite high school football and basketball recruits from multiple class years.

How 247Sports evaluates ...

Each recruit we evaluate is assigned a numerical rating as well as a star rating. Ratings are determined by our recruiting analysts after countless hours of personal observations, film evaluation, and input from our network of scouts.

Players are first grouped qualitatively with a star rating, then given a numerical rating based on their future potential, and finally ranked according to these numerical ratings.

https://247sports.com/college/appalachian-state/Article/247Sports-Rating-Explanation-81574

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Chase we are on the same page. Farley has been great this season too with a lot of recruiting info that not many other people are bringing to the board so I am not going to lie and act like he doesn't bring a lot to the board because he does. But I truly don't understand the need to try and rationalize what is a very good class but not an elite one. Its ok to admit that a very good class isn't elite but just very good.

 

[zonairish]

Chase we are on the same page. Farley has been great this season too with a lot of recruiting info that not many other people are bringing to the board so I am not going to lie and act like he doesn't bring a lot to the board because he does. But I truly don't understand the need to try and rationalize what is a very good class but not an elite one. Its ok to admit that a very good class isn't elite but just very good.

10th overall ranking is not bad. What do you define elite as? top 5? That said, I think farley points are valid. There is no way they can get every possible ranking right and why did Phil drop so much? As one poster said money, and he is correct. If you as a player do not go on the circuits your stock drops, If you are not recommended by some influencers your stock drops. This is why some 3 stars are good to have. Heck justin tuck was a 2 *. I agree that overall the services get it right but they miss also.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

10th overall ranking is not bad. What do you define elite as? top 5? That said, I think farley points are valid. There is no way they can get every possible ranking right and why did Phil drop so much? As one poster said money, and he is correct. If you as a player do not go on the circuits your stock drops, If you are not recommended by some influencers your stock drops. This is why some 3 stars are good to have. Heck justin tuck was a 2 *. I agree that overall the services get it right but they miss also.

I think generally the Elite classes are Top 5ish... some years that may expand to Top 7/8ish depending on how concentrated the top end talent it. This year's class is very very good. But keeping it from being elite in my opinion are (1) the giant holes at WDE and SDE, (2) the lack of top 100 OL, and (3) the general lack of top 50 players. Everyone grants that there are holes in the rankings because of the sheer volume of players but it is crazy town to argue that the rankings are reliable or that using the rankings as a measuring stick isn't legit because the rankings are bias and subject to politics. Even if that is true over time the rankings has still shown to be very good indicators of both individual talent and team prospects going forward.

 

[zonairish]

I think generally the Elite classes are Top 5ish... some years that may expand to Top 7/8ish depending on how concentrated the top end talent it. This year's class is very very good. But keeping it from being elite in my opinion are (1) the giant holes at WDE and SDE, (2) the lack of top 100 OL, and (3) the general lack of top 50 players. Everyone grants that there are holes in the rankings because of the sheer volume of players but it is crazy town to argue that the rankings are reliable or that using the rankings as a measuring stick isn't legit because the rankings are bias and subject to politics. Even if that is true over time the rankings has still shown to be very good indicators of both individual talent and team prospects going forward.

nice post. I would agree that we whiffed on WDE and SDE and that alone tells us it's not a top 5 class or elite. I would say that is where my frustration with recruiting is. Every year we seem to whiff. it was DB's for a couple years, it was linebackers another year. This year it is WDE /SDE. I will say on a positive. this year's class and last years class have been the best 2 back to back for Kelly. I see improvement. Not having an elite 5 * will not impact us this year but in order to get those players recruiting has to be more consistent and we need to be in new years 6 bowl at the very least and win plus we should be in the playoffs and win a game.

 

[chaseball]

Nobody's arguing that the services get every individual rating correct -- but you get a really good/accurate overall picture of the relative talent difference when you take the entire class (~25players) into consideration and an even better picture when you take the entire roster into consideration.

ND is not in a conference -- it's PLAYOFF or BUST -- which makes it EVEN MORE IMPERATIVE that ND recruits with the top 3/4/5 schools in the country. As it is now .. ND is in the 3rd tier. They are at a talent disadvantage for the playoff way before the first kick off of the season starts because of their inability to attract the top 100/top 50 talents in-abundance (or at least at the levels the modern powers are able to).

Again, NDs class relative to all 130 schools is very good....NDs class relative to the FBS playoff/national championship picture is TERRIBLE. And nothing is going to change until ordinary fans become frustrated and fed up with the lack of results on the recruiting trail and demand change.

 

[chaseball]

"we can't recruit like OSU, Bama, FSU, USC, Texas, Georgia, LSU,etc."

Then don't expect their results.

Notre Dame makes wayy too much money, has way too much fan support, and STILL even with the relative mediocrity over the last 25 years has enough brand power to attract the highest level of talent and compete with the best of the best.

Stop making excuses for mediocre results on the recruiting trail that ultimately leads to mediocre results on the football field.

DEMAND a coach/administration that can compete with the best of the best.

 

[NDSMC78]

"we can't recruit like OSU, Bama, FSU, USC, Texas, Georgia, LSU,etc."

Then don't expect their results.

Notre Dame makes wayy too much money, has way too much fan support, and STILL even with the relative mediocrity over the last 25 years has enough brand power to attract the highest level of talent and compete with the best of the best.

Stop accepting mediocrity, stop making excuses for mediocre results on the recruiting trail, that ultimately leads to mediocre results on the football field.

DEMAND a coach/administration that can compete with the best of the best. Or don't support the institution or you will be supporting mediocrity in perpetuity.

Right. What specific DEMANDS do you refer to?

 

[chaseball]

I'm just tired of the sentiment among the ND fan base that recruiting is "good" .. or "its fine" .. you hear it from every ND media outlet, and it bleeds into conventional wisdom among fans.

There's WAAAY more to be critical of and hold the coach/administration accountable for than just simply Brian Kelly's scheme/decision making/gameplan/playcall on saturdays. Which is the only thing that the media and fans focus on and criticize.

NO -- LOOK AT US LOSING/GETTING SMOKED ON THE RECRUITING TRAIL EVERY YEAR TO THE TEAMS WINNING NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS AND COMPETING FOR PLAYOFF SPOTS -- THESE RECRUITING RESULTS SHOULD BE GETTING FANS FRUSTRATED. THIS IS A BIG DEAL. STOP LOOKING THE OTHER WAY!!