No flaming please...just here to discuss GT game

[bossross90]

Hey guys...first of all want to say I wish I was coming back to SB this week. I was there in 2007 and it's definitely the best road game I've ever been to (granted that only covers about 15 stadiums). Fans are awesome, campus is awesome (pristine with not even as much as a gum wrapper on the ground) and just everything there is first class.

With that said, I want to hear about what you guys expect to do on offense this week? Are you guys a 60/40 passing team under BK or does the qb dictate all of that and you are unsure due to qb1 going down(really hate that for you guys btw)? I was at the Tulane game during your game against UVA so if you can talk about what was the same vs different in game 1 to game 2 as far as strategy that helps. I thought you guys were really impressive week 1 and probably just lacked focus last week but not seeing the game that's just speculation. What are your offenses strengths and tendencies?

If you have any questions about GT offense or defense I'll do my best to respond but really came to learn about ND.

 

[IrishBlooded]

ND will be using their number 3 QB for sure for the game.

The QB that ND lost (Zaire) was a runner that could throw. The QB that is starting (Kizer) is taller, and should be a thrower, that can run if needed.

I have no doubt that GTech is going to get their yards. And they are going to get a fist full of them. If they have under 350 yards for the day I will be surprised. The Def. Coordinator for ND (Brian Van Gordner) has yet to show he can contain the option. Last year, his first at ND. It was the offense that saved the day more than the defense stopping Navy.

It will be harder to really know the 'tendencies' on offense going into this. Because you are going to have a QB that in spring camp was number 3 and was pretty sure he wasn't going to have a chance to see the field this year. Golson transferred to FSU, which caused Brian Kelly to give as many reps as possible to Zaire to get him up to speed and open up the play book. And now you have to break in yet another QB. However this time it is with no room for error. Would have been nice to at least give him a week to get used to seeing the first squad guys on the field before taking on someone like GTech. But it is, what it is.

As far as offense the numbers to watch are:
#20 CJ Prosise WR now playing starting RB
#7 Will Fuller deep target that can burn almost any CB in the country for the deep ball
#88 Corey Robinson big tall WR that is due to have a big game
#80 Duram Smythe TE there is speculation he might have an injury nothing official yet. However he has good hands
#18 Tori Hunter Jr. emerging player that has a ton of skill and a ton potential. Now he just needs receptions

On defense numbers to watch are:
#91 Sheldon Day DL great defensive linemen and runs the front 4
#9 Jaylon Smith I'm not sure who else is on GTech's schedule. But I'm not afraid to say he is the best LB you will see all year
#6 K. Russell CB leader in the secondary. If he would get back to playing his assignment instead of trying to kill everyone he runs at, he can be a true college 'lock down' corner

There are plenty more. But that will get you started.

 

[bossross90]

Thanks IB...very good info.

Is number 9 a Mike linebacker? If yes, that's probably our matchup of the day to watch......

Sounds like ND's defensive strength may be up the middle. GT's strength last year was certainly up the middle and our best o-lineman is our center. Last year our GCG combo was the best I can ever remember, but we are replacing one of the guards (all American and now starting for the Pats) but his replacement is a huge dude in Shamire Devine who goes about 370. His problem thus far has been stamina but he's a stud when not tired. The rest of the O-line is the same as last year.

On defense, we have a very very deep secondary with 4 seniors starting and a fairly deep DL with LB being the greenies of the group. Our problem is pass rush. We're ok to decent at stopping the run but so far this season we've had a couple of guys get beaten deep. We've been a lot more aggressive with our corners since about the middle of last year and we've never stopped a TE in the history of our program. I imagine your TE and WR#7 will probably have their best games, but I would think we're probably going to make your qb beat us throwing deep and hope for some bad decisions. Our corners and safeties bait a lot of qb's after letting them dink and dunk between the 20's. I would suggests ND to run the ball in the red zone and pass between the 20's.

Our offense is very hard to stop, but the teams who are decently successful are teams that can shoot gaps without blitzing. Your corners are gonna get caught cheating when they start firing to play the pitch or the rocket toss and out A-backs have been really good receivers this far, but I'm expecting BVG to play press, blitz corners and have DL's shooting gaps. Penetration is how you beat the option.

 

[Duo]

Great job there 90.........

Really great to hear somebody talking about the specifics of triple option football particularly when it's a Paul Johnson team that's the best there is in the country at running it. Good job.

 

[FightingIrish44]

Thanks IB...very good info.

Is number 9 a Mike linebacker? If yes, that's probably our matchup of the day to watch......

Our offense is very hard to stop, but the teams who are decently successful are teams that can shoot gaps without blitzing. Your corners are gonna get caught cheating when they start firing to play the pitch or the rocket toss and out A-backs have been really good receivers this far, but I'm expecting BVG to play press, blitz corners and have DL's shooting gaps. Penetration is how you beat the option.

#9 is our Will linebacker and a great athlete. My guess is he will be lined up to the wide side of the field to help run down toss and stuff (I know GT still runs that to the short side too, and I really hope they're not couting on #9 to be an all-star).

I think penetration can help if its coming from the DT's, but other than that, DE's and OLB's need to be reading their keys and playing on the line of scrimmage unless stunting.

ND has struggled a lot against Navy and I'm expecting more of that this week. I think Navy puts a minimum of 28 points up and probably more like 42. I'm hoping for some turnovers by Thomas, but those are rare to come by.

 

[BGI User 1596]

The only way to stop them is punch them in the mouth and tackle the QB on every play - make them eat dirt and impose your will on them. GO IRISH.

 

[bossross90]

#9 is our Will linebacker and a great athlete. My guess is he will be lined up to the wide side of the field to help run down toss and stuff (I know GT still runs that to the short side too, and I really hope they're not couting on #9 to be an all-star).

First thanks for the clarification. Your fanbase is literally the only one I've talked to that refers to your team as "they" and not "we" which all Southern teams do. Not sure if your folks are the unique ones or us

Secondly I quoted this part of your post to respond to because if 9 is the Will this is going to be a great chess match. The Mike matters more if he is just a stud at beating blocks and kills B-backs up the middle on the dive. Will is responsible (in most cases) for the quarterback on plays to his side. We don't typically line up with a strength in formation. It's typically as you say, a wide side and a short side. We run the play as the play and have an idea what side we want to run it to but the first read the qb makes is pre-snap where he counts the number of players lined up in the box on each side of the center. If you are running a 4-3 we are going to base it on the SS usually, and run opposite of him. If you have more defenders in the box on the side of the center where we called the play, the qb will check to the other side when we are running double or triple option. Same thing if you are running a 3-4 really, just makes the Will or Sam the first read (dive read) when he is walked up or if the DT to his side is over the guard. If numbers are even on both sides of the center, we'll run to the called side, which will probably change depending on the play call, how well the backers are stringing us out, or based on match ups.

On non-triple plays, CPJ may say run opposite of #9. Conversely if he is showing a tendency to break hard on the qb, we're probably going to try to run play action passes to his side.

If your DT is neutralizing us once we've singled out going away from 9, then we may start running some counters and rocket toss plays still away from number 9 even if to the boundary.

9 being a Will makes this game much less of a "kill the qb and impose your will" type of contest. It's going to be a lot more of a move-counter move between CPJ and BVG.

 

[ramblinwreck89]

tech is way overdue for a hiccup. I don't feel to good about The nd game

 

[FightingIrish44]

First thanks for the clarification. Your fanbase is literally the only one I've talked to that refers to your team as "they" and not "we" which all Southern teams do. Not sure if your folks are the unique ones or us

Secondly I quoted this part of your post to respond to because if 9 is the Will this is going to be a great chess match. The Mike matters more if he is just a stud at beating blocks and kills B-backs up the middle on the dive. Will is responsible (in most cases) for the quarterback on plays to his side. We don't typically line up with a strength in formation. It's typically as you say, a wide side and a short side. We run the play as the play and have an idea what side we want to run it to but the first read the qb makes is pre-snap where he counts the number of players lined up in the box on each side of the center. If you are running a 4-3 we are going to base it on the SS usually, and run opposite of him. If you have more defenders in the box on the side of the center where we called the play, the qb will check to the other side when we are running double or triple option. Same thing if you are running a 3-4 really, just makes the Will or Sam the first read (dive read) when he is walked up or if the DT to his side is over the guard. If numbers are even on both sides of the center, we'll run to the called side, which will probably change depending on the play call, how well the backers are stringing us out, or based on match ups.

On non-triple plays, CPJ may say run opposite of #9. Conversely if he is showing a tendency to break hard on the qb, we're probably going to try to run play action passes to his side.

If your DT is neutralizing us once we've singled out going away from 9, then we may start running some counters and rocket toss plays still away from number 9 even if to the boundary.

9 being a Will makes this game much less of a "kill the qb and impose your will" type of contest. It's going to be a lot more of a move-counter move between CPJ and BVG.

You're preaching to the choir . I've spent the last week breaking down GA Tech's games from last season (who needs to work?) and know a little about the flexbone.

As you pointed out, the flexbone is pretty much all about numbers advantages. What's really key a lot of times is where the 3 technique is lined up. They're going to run their base triple option play (inside veer) to the 1 technique side. Midline option to the 3 tech (reading guard, although you can run it to other There are a ton of different variations with how to block particular plays.

Also, a lot of times the QB is actually reading two defenders (known as "reading the stack"). This helps defeat a false give read when the dive key goes outside and the pitch key comes inside. There are a lot of great resources online if you google triple option resources.

I'm concerned ND won't stay in their base defense and will play a 3-3-5 stack they used last year. I'm good with a changeup defense, but not something that you just put in for one offense. That's very amateurish in my opinion.

Good luck.

 

[perseverare]

The only way to stop them is punch them in the mouth and tackle the QB on every play - make them eat dirt and impose your will on them. GO IRISH.

there is no justifiable rational for this:
I expect that the ND defensive players will step up this week; there will probably be personel changes, and tweeks to the ineffective blitz packages. The defense has to be thinking that with MZ out this is "on us" to salvage the season. So IF ND has it on defense - this week will be the "statement" game.

 

[bossross90]

Thanks FI. If you have watched games I would say Clemson and VPI are the teams that stopped us the best. UNC and FSU out scored us, against Duke we self destructed with turnovers. Even though we won those 2 games, they defended us best. DL penetration is the key but I will say in some rare occasions LBs have made a difference (Miami usually).

What about our D vs your offense? Does BK usually utilize the TE? I know very little about his offensive preferences. Is his MO big deep ball passes, use the run to open the pass, use the pass to open the run, run up tempo, pro style RB iso's, dink and dunk, etc?

Good luck to you this weekend as well.

 

[IrishBlooded]

Your fanbase is literally the only one I've talked to that refers to your team as "they" and not "we" which all Southern teams do.

Something that always annoys me about others.

you are a fan. If you literally didn't get out of bed for a week or didn't breathe for 1 month straight. It would have absolutely no effect on how the team performs on game day. Yet so many still refer to the team as 'we'

 

[Irishjohn68]

Isn't Georgia Tech's offense just Navy's offense on steroids?

 

[FightingIrish44]

Thanks FI. If you have watched games I would say Clemson and VPI are the teams that stopped us the best. UNC and FSU out scored us, against Duke we self destructed with turnovers. Even though we won those 2 games, they defended us best. DL penetration is the key but I will say in some rare occasions LBs have made a difference (Miami usually).

What about our D vs your offense? Does BK usually utilize the TE? I know very little about his offensive preferences. Is his MO big deep ball passes, use the run to open the pass, use the pass to open the run, run up tempo, pro style RB iso's, dink and dunk, etc?

Good luck to you this weekend as well.

Ga Tech dominated UNC and FSU offensively. FSU had no answer for GT's tackle over formation running the belly play (tackle and end block down while guard kicks). Shame GT lost that game.

I didn't watch the GA game, and I already forgot the Clemson game mostly, but I actually feel like Duke did the best. I know Thomas had some turnovers, but Duke actually read the plays rather than just blitzing (Va Tech still did okay with that).

Offensively for ND, Kelly uses the TE a lot but not as much this year. One of the announcers on TV said we have four viable players. That's possible, but we haven't really thrown their way too much and its not like they're great or anything. I think ND will run a lot and mix in plenty of WR screens to make it easier for our backup, but I'm sure he will be throwing downfield too.

Normally I would prefer to speed things up on offense vs. a flexbone team because they shorten the game (Navy had a 14.5 minute drive in 2004!), but with Tech's efficiency and ND playing a backup, they may opt to slow it down.

 

[twalsh]

Isn't Georgia Tech's offense just Navy's offense on steroids?

It is, kind of, but Johnson tweaks it every year to suit his strengths, and then tweaks it each week based on where he wants to attack the defense. And Navy doesn't get too many 300+ pound offensive linemen like GT does. That gives GT some play options that Navy doesn't have.

 

[bossross90]

Biggest difference is speed (not execution speed which Navy is as good if not better at) but foot speed. Justin Thomas won Alabama 100m in hs, but our fastest player by far is A-back # 22 Snoddy. He competes at a high level on the track team nationally. Justin is quicker and acceleration is similar but Snoddy has by far the best long speed. Justin is like Allen Iverson quick.

We actually have a really good and pretty big O-line. On the play side we mostly drive block and there has been less cutting and more scooping on the back side going back to last year. That's the 2 biggest differences, size and speed, but it's not every position. Our starting B-back is Patrick Skov whose played against ND quite a few times as a Stanford full back. He's very tough but is a plodder. Our speed B-back is a true freshman Marcus Marshall whose older brother Keith plays RB at Georgia.

 

[Duo]

Boss ross....

How do you think GT will do this year in the ACC?

Duke
NC State
Clemson
Pitt
FSU
Va.
Va. Tech
Miami

 

[Toby Smart]

There is nothing wrong with saying "we". Talk to the players and staff and I am 99.9% positive they would agree. They are then ones who say how important the 12th man is, so fans do play a role in the game. That is the point BK and Jack has been trying to make since their arrival. That's exactly what "Stand Up and Cheer" is all about. The cheerleaders hold up large placards every home game that say "We Are ND". They encourage the fan base to yell it out. On top of all that, my family and myself have spent enough money since the 1950s in tickets, parking, concessions, and bookstore to say "We". Fans are smart enough to understand that "we" aren't the ones sweating and bleeding but fans still have a role to play.

 

[bossross90]

Boss ross....

How do you think GT will do this year in the ACC?

Duke
NC State
Clemson
Pitt
FSU
Va.
Va. Tech
Miami

It's a tough schedule with ND and Georgia out of Confrence but we are playing the hardest in Confrence schedule we can with Clemson(yearly cross over)and FSU(every 6 years)being our div cross over games. Had the same in conf schedule in 2008 where we played BC instead of Pitt who was non ACC then. In 2009 our cross overs were Clemson, FSU and Wake.

We lost to VPI in 08 in Blacksburg on 2 bs late hit penalties by 3 points (both 3rd and long on the last drives of the game to put them in fg range) but basically we should have won the ACC in 08 and did win it in 09. I think we may lose to Clemson in DV on 10-10 but we'll get a chance for revenge on a nuetral field and we'll win the second one. I would think 7-1 or 6-2 ACC and hoping for at least a split between ND and Georgia. Worst case 8-4 overall best case 12-0 likely 9-3 or 10-2 and an ACC championship

 

[northvanole]

Towards the end of 2014, GT was passing out of the option formation as well as executing designed running plays not based on the option. That of course is not their base formation but it shows a versatility that GT can do with their QB. They can run the option either up tempo or in a clock controlling mode. When they pass, they hardly ever go for a short quick strike. This is a very aggressive opportunistic offense - but it only works with the right personnel and a defense that is effective. This year, GT returns 8 starters on defense and the entire offensive line.

On the other hand, GT has had seasons of blowouts against unprepared defenses (like this year) followed by unusual losses. GT lost back to back games last year against Duke and UNC. UNC was not a great team last year. GT also had narrow wins over Miami and VT last year.

Everyone expects that GT has an upper limit that can't be exceeded because they have few ways to be successful if the option is shut down. This has proven to be true - until last year when they beat UGA in Athens and crushed Miss State in the bowl game.

Is this a more mature option offense that can win a championship against a really strong defense like ND? Not sure. If they complete 70% of their passes and successfully run the option, they are almost unbeatable (but you can say that about any team that has that kind of success in a game). Will be fun to watch. And I do agree that Paul Johnson has somewhat of a "prickly" personality and seems determined to prove something.

 

[Pennick4]

GT Fans,

How is Johnson though of ? Obviously you had a great season last year but during some of the bad season I was hearing that the fans were getting tired of his offense. Just curious.

 

[brewbuzzn]

GT Fans,

How is Johnson though of ? Obviously you had a great season last year but during some of the bad season I was hearing that the fans were getting tired of his offense. Just curious.

For the most part I think the fan base likes him....the rest, well they just tolerate him. I think most of the "tolerate" crowd still wishes for a pro-style offense. Why should GT go back to that style? GT wasn't all that successful when it was pro-centric. For years under earlier regimes (Gailey, etc) GT rarely put together great seasons. There might be a 9 win season slotted in amongst a whole slew of 6 and 7 win years. GT has had difficulty recruiting high quality studs, and Georgia has certainly ruled the roost with respect to grabbing the in-state talent. Considering PJ's success while fielding pretty much middle of the road talent I'm thinking there's a lot to be happy about. I remember when the haters were calling for PJs head several years back. He'd come in and had some amazing success with guys he didn't even recruit (Dwyer, Nesbitt, Demariyus Thomas, etc) but then basically stumbled for a couple seasons. That brought out that part of the fanbase that he never won over from the beginning. As long as we stay competitive (i.e. avg 8 wins/season) I think his job is secure.

I have a lot of FSU friends (well, I do live in Panama City) and they complain about how boring PJ's offense is, and then they drone on about the "illegal" blocking. I guess to each his own, but I find this particular running attack to be a real treat to watch...especially when it opens up a big pass play. As far as the blocking goes...well....cut blocks aren't illegal and every college team executes them at some point.

 

[FightingIrish44]

For the most part I think the fan base likes him....the rest, well they just tolerate him. I think most of the "tolerate" crowd still wishes for a pro-style offense. Why should GT go back to that style? GT wasn't all that successful when it was pro-centric. For years under earlier regimes (Gailey, etc) GT rarely put together great seasons. There might be a 9 win season slotted in amongst a whole slew of 6 and 7 win years. GT has had difficulty recruiting high quality studs, and Georgia has certainly ruled the roost with respect to grabbing the in-state talent. Considering PJ's success while fielding pretty much middle of the road talent I'm thinking there's a lot to be happy about. I remember when the haters were calling for PJs head several years back. He'd come in and had some amazing success with guys he didn't even recruit (Dwyer, Nesbitt, Demariyus Thomas, etc) but then basically stumbled for a couple seasons. That brought out that part of the fanbase that he never won over from the beginning. As long as we stay competitive (i.e. avg 8 wins/season) I think his job is secure.

I have a lot of FSU friends (well, I do live in Panama City) and they complain about how boring PJ's offense is, and then they drone on about the "illegal" blocking. I guess to each his own, but I find this particular running attack to be a real treat to watch...especially when it opens up a big pass play. As far as the blocking goes...well....cut blocks aren't illegal and every college team executes them at some point.

I'm thinking GT's recruiting profile will increase with the more success they have. Don't you guys have an OL in the NFL too? So GT will continue getting more talent the more PJ wins and your offense will be even more unstoppable than it already is. Hopefully, more smart and athletic QB's will want to play there.

Also, the flexbone is boring to fans who don't know anything. Even if one doesn't know anything, I'd sure love to see my team breaking 10+ yard gains all the time.

 

[bossross90]

Agree with previous sentiments mentioned above. I was on the fence heading into last year and said that it was a put up or shut up season. Last year was his first time proving he could do it all including recruit the guys necessary to get it done. Prior to last year he'd been a .500 coach with guys he recruited. No one thought he forgot how to coach but a lot of people questioned whether or not he was a good fit as a head coach at a P5 program or just a great offensive coordinator who lacked the ability to recruit and field a good defense (he was on his 3rd d-coordinator by his 6th season). He answered those questions last year and got a contract extension. He'll be able to stay as long as he wants to now

 

[Pennick4]

Its all about the W's.