Nick Saban & Urban Meyer both available

[96domer]

Spot on. I loved my time at ND but, if ND was not located in South Bend, there would be no reason, on God's green earth, to ever be there.

 

[ticat]

Last NC, 1988. Nuff said.

Texas - before beating USC in 2005, previous natty was 1969 (I'm not giving them 1970 after we beat them in the Cotton Bowl)...46 years

Michigan - before 1997, previous natty was 1949...48 years...

It happens till the saviour comes along...we're waiting for the saviour, and being Catholic, we're used to it....

 

[ticat]

Why do you hate the prospect of ND being the #1 program in college football again so much?

 

[chaseball]

Texas - before beating USC in 2005, previous natty was 1969 (I'm not giving them 1970 after we beat them in the Cotton Bowl)...46 years

Michigan - before 1997, previous natty was 1949...48 years...

It happens till the saviour comes along...we're waiting for the saviour, and being Catholic, we're used to it....

People been saying the same thing about Notre Dame post Rockne era until a coach comes along and maximizes the football program and ND goes on a dominant tier 1 run *yet again*. It's a story that spans the test of time and one of the reasons why people love & hate this football program so much.

This fan base is already supporting ND to a sales-and-ratings topper in a prodigiously wealthier industry while the product has been largely stale & subpar since at least the start of the 21st century.

Can you imagine if ND actually went into a season as a bonafide tier 1 team favored to win it all, with a heisman QB, and some first round CBs and edges all on the same defense?

ND is a sleeping RHINOCEROS. When we get the right leadership in here, with our rabid national fanbase, prestige, old-money, power, increasing academic reputation, etc. ND is going to go on a run like we've never seen. I just hope to still be alive when it happens.

 

[banmate6]

I don't know about that. I think they're going to have to compromise their ideals. Which have no meaning anyway, it's just something that makes ND feel good about itself. It's difficult to think of anything that isn't morally hideous about ND's academic ideals. Quite frankly. So if they're committed to their fussy, self-aggrandizing academic elitism, then de-emphasize football. Or keep settling for whatever they have now. As if LSU or any other seat of higher learning are scumbags somehow for letting in these otherwise non-students in to play football. ND's so-called 'ideals' bring into question the very moral existence of higher education as a social institution. So it's fitting that it should cost them football glory, if they are going to be so unbending in their fealty to them.

Harsh as you are, you are generally correct. It's like taking part of the Iron Triangle Slave Trades...you claim your ships are clean, offer safe passage, food, water. But you're still a part of it!



I know I'll get flak for my comment. But there is an air of hypocrisy here. As an immigrant myself, we had affordable Catholic education as an option. I went to Catholic grammar school, HS (run by the Congregation of Holy Cross that runs ND), and a Jesuit university.

The current tuition and elitism are appalling. Slowly eroding the Catholic identity. And yet they quibble over taking in marginalized students that could stand a remedial program, as they help build and maintain a binding football brand?

 

[NDSMC78]

Harsh as you are, you are generally correct. It's like taking part of the Iron Triangle Slave Trades...you claim your ships are clean, offer safe passage, food, water. But you're still a part of it!



I know I'll get flak for my comment. But there is an air of hypocrisy here. As an immigrant myself, we had affordable Catholic education as an option. I went to Catholic grammar school, HS (run by the Congregation of Holy Cross that runs ND), and a Jesuit university.

The current tuition and elitism are appalling. Slowly eroding the Catholic identity. And yet they quibble over taking in marginalized students that could stand a remedial program, as they help build and maintain a binding football brand?

There are plenty of places for remedial programs. Notre Dame is not one of them. And if, as you suggest, the "current tuition is appalling," who want want to spend that kind of money paying for remedial classes?

 

[banmate6]

There are plenty of places for remedial programs. Notre Dame is not one of them. And if, as you suggest, the "current tuition is appalling," who want want to spend that kind of money paying for remedial classes?

I get where you are coming from, but you keep obfuscating the point...ND would do a great social good by providing a remedial path to an easier degree that wouldn't at all dilute the academic brand.

I know and work with many ND graduates in hi-tech. They would never take such a program and still would have gone the STEM degree path. Obviously.

And just like my Jesuit alma mater, the tuition is appalling. This wasn't what higher education was meant to be. Never mind the Catholic mission.

Finally, the point stands about hypocrisy around ND reaping a lot by participating in the sordid competition that is NCAA football. Let's be real here.

 

[NDSMC78]

I get where you are coming from, but you keep obfuscating the point...ND would do a great social good by providing a remedial path to an easier degree that wouldn't at all dilute the academic brand.

Yeah, it would dilute the academic reputation of the school.

 

[echowaker]

Harsh as you are, you are generally correct. It's like taking part of the Iron Triangle Slave Trades...you claim your ships are clean, offer safe passage, food, water. But you're still a part of it!



I know I'll get flak for my comment. But there is an air of hypocrisy here. As an immigrant myself, we had affordable Catholic education as an option. I went to Catholic grammar school, HS (run by the Congregation of Holy Cross that runs ND), and a Jesuit university.

The current tuition and elitism are appalling. Slowly eroding the Catholic identity. And yet they quibble over taking in marginalized students that could stand a remedial program, as they help build and maintain a binding football brand?

The Catholic high school I attended in the mid 80s had a tuition of less than $1000 a year. It's currently around $15000. Then again 95% of the faculty was comprised of priests and nuns back then. I'm not sure the Catholic grade school I attended even had tuition for parishioners. I never had a lay teacher until my sophomore year in high school. Cheap labor back then. 3 hots and a cot and a small stipend.

 

[ticat]

People been saying the same thing about Notre Dame post Rockne era until a coach comes along and maximizes the football program and ND goes on a dominant tier 1 run *yet again*. It's a story that spans the test of time and one of the reasons why people love & hate this football program so much.

This fan base is already supporting ND to a sales-and-ratings topper in a prodigiously wealthier industry while the product has been largely stale & subpar since at least the start of the 21st century.

Can you imagine if ND actually went into a season as a bonafide tier 1 team favored to win it all, with a heisman QB, and some first round CBs and edges all on the same defense?

ND is a sleeping RHINOCEROS. When we get the right leadership in here, with our rabid national fanbase, prestige, old-money, power, increasing academic reputation, etc. ND is going to go on a run like we've never seen. I just hope to still be alive when it happens.

This may be true of a professional sports organization...of which the University of Notre is not one...it is a UNIVERSITY with a mission to educate, generate knowledge and contribute to the advancement of the society in which it exists...football does none of that...nor does basketball, hockey, soccer....

You seem to believe that you are personally cheated because the University earns money from its endeavours in the sporting world...well, don't contribute to them. Don't buy "the shirt;" don't watch the games; don't purchase the sponsors' products; don't visit campus and Hammes on football or basketball or hockey or soccer (well, you get the gist) weekends...

The University believes that it can COMPETE for a football national championship within the academic space in which it works...doesn't mean it can win one, especially since the sport has become NFL-lite. When the likely national champion is discussed as much for its payroll as its offensive systems, you are no longer playing intercollegiate sports...you might as well be talking about the Columbus Buckeyes versus the Eugene Ducks...

I THINK it goes without saying that Notre Dame will never LOWER itself to "compete" in this realm...and if they do, I will take the advice I gave you above and simply walk away from a life-long interest in Notre Dame football...and frankly, I have already turned to face that direction...I'm not walking yet, but I am starting to feel like I should be more actively leaning that way...

 

[NDSMC78]

You seem to believe that you are personally cheated because the University earns money from its endeavours in the sporting world...well, don't contribute to them. Don't buy "the shirt;" don't watch the games; don't purchase the sponsors' products; don't visit campus and Hammes on football or basketball or hockey or soccer (well, you get the gist) weekends...

This has always been Chaseball's mindset. He seems to think ND owes him something because he follows the football team.

 

[savvyandsassier]

Harsh as you are, you are generally correct. It's like taking part of the Iron Triangle Slave Trades...you claim your ships are clean, offer safe passage, food, water. But you're still a part of it!



I know I'll get flak for my comment. But there is an air of hypocrisy here. As an immigrant myself, we had affordable Catholic education as an option. I went to Catholic grammar school, HS (run by the Congregation of Holy Cross that runs ND), and a Jesuit university.

The current tuition and elitism are appalling. Slowly eroding the Catholic identity. And yet they quibble over taking in marginalized students that could stand a remedial program, as they help build and maintain a binding football brand?

Born and raised Catholic as well but long since lapsed, I think my HS was weirdly expensive, but I'm from Hawaii and everything's expensive there. In any case, I get the feeling when my dad went to ND in an earlier era, it was a different place than it is now. Post Hesburgh and on the rise, in terms of ambitiously aspiring to lofty scholarly status and reputation, but certainly not yet the elite prestige dispenser it's become today. Which to be fair is true of all elite colleges almost default, that's what college has become. That's the so-called meritocracy. Which by now effectively acts as an outright de facto aristocracy. And one's entire destiny is set in motion by one's HS GPA and SAT scores, and the fancy college that alone gets you into. Not to mention the appalling cost. Even at a state university it's now a lot.

In any case, given how prestigious ND has become and has ascended to, that would be the best recruiting pitch to hammer home to qualified elite recruits, in a world where a prestige college diploma has become quasi official pedigree status, with very real and tangible privileges. And I'm sure they do. But the direction our economy is headed, I'm not even sure a ND diploma will be defense enough against the dwindling prospects of guaranteed, significant genteel employment with your trusty diploma opening all the doors for you. What with AI ready to wreak havoc all throughout the white collar ranks.

 

[Patrirish]

Yeah, it would dilute the academic reputation of the school.

CORRECT !

 

[Patrirish]

Born and raised Catholic as well but long since lapsed, I think my HS was weirdly expensive, but I'm from Hawaii and everything's expensive there. In any case, I get the feeling when my dad went to ND in an earlier era, it was a different place than it is now. Post Hesburgh and on the rise, in terms of ambitiously aspiring to lofty scholarly status and reputation, but certainly not yet the elite prestige dispenser it's become today. Which to be fair is true of all elite colleges almost default, that's what college has become. That's the so-called meritocracy. Which by now effectively acts as an outright de facto aristocracy. And one's entire destiny is set in motion by one's HS GPA and SAT scores, and the fancy college that alone gets you into. Not to mention the appalling cost. Even at a state university it's now a lot.

In any case, given how prestigious ND has become and has ascended to, that would be the best recruiting pitch to hammer home to qualified elite recruits, in a world where a prestige college diploma has become quasi official pedigree status, with very real and tangible privileges. And I'm sure they do. But the direction our economy is headed, I'm not even sure a ND diploma will be defense enough against the dwindling prospects of guaranteed, significant genteel employment with your trusty diploma opening all the doors for you. What with AI ready to wreak havoc all throughout the white collar ranks.

You raise a valid point

 

[Holycrossover3]

This topic is always frustrating. What 5star kids are trying to come to ND that we aren’t accepting? I sure know of a lot more 5star kids we offer that simply choose another University. Academic restrictions are not what’s stopping us from a national title.

Anyways, we already do allow football players to get into ND with lower grades. You think all these kids are averaging 1400+ on the SAT?

 

[sjb75]

This topic is always frustrating. What 5star kids are trying to come to ND that we aren’t accepting? I sure know of a lot more 5star kids we offer that simply choose another University. Academic restrictions are not what’s stopping us from a national title.

Anyways, we already do allow football players to get into ND with lower grades. You think all these kids are averaging 1400+ on the SAT?

Ignorance.

 

[Holycrossover3]

Ignorance.

I actually graduated from this University in 2015. But please Mr Southern Cal who never attended, tell me more

 

[sjb75]

I actually graduated from this University in 2015. But please Mr Southern Cal who never attended, tell me more

Clueless.

 

[sjb75]

This topic is always frustrating. What 5star kids are trying to come to ND that we aren’t accepting? I sure know of a lot more 5star kids we offer that simply choose another University. Academic restrictions are not what’s stopping us from a national title.

Anyways, we already do allow football players to get into ND with lower grades. You think all these kids are averaging 1400+ on the SAT?

Stick to your day job.

 

[Holycrossover3]

Stick to your day job.

Thank you for living up to your stellar board reputation.

 

[sjb75]

“This topic is always frustrating,”

 

[Holycrossover3]

“This topic is always frustrating,”

“One word answer guy because I’m too arrogant to explain my opinion”

 

[chaseball]

This has always been Chaseball's mindset. He seems to think ND owes him something because he follows the football team.

If i responded to every erroneous claim attributed to me i wouldn't have enough time to post anything else.

Besides that point though, I think the discussion/disagreement/debate me and you have on this forum regularly is the same one going on internally at the highest levels of Notre Dame as it relates to the football program.

 

[NDSMC78]

If i responded to every erroneous claim attributed to me i wouldn't have enough time to post anything else.

Besides that point though, I think the discussion/disagreement/debate me and you have on this forum regularly is the same one going on internally at the highest levels of Notre Dame as it relates to the football program.

I have no reason to believe there is any discussion about the football program going on such as you have suggested.

 

[banmate6]

Born and raised Catholic as well but long since lapsed, I think my HS was weirdly expensive, but I'm from Hawaii and everything's expensive there. In any case, I get the feeling when my dad went to ND in an earlier era, it was a different place than it is now. Post Hesburgh and on the rise, in terms of ambitiously aspiring to lofty scholarly status and reputation, but certainly not yet the elite prestige dispenser it's become today. Which to be fair is true of all elite colleges almost default, that's what college has become. That's the so-called meritocracy. Which by now effectively acts as an outright de facto aristocracy. And one's entire destiny is set in motion by one's HS GPA and SAT scores, and the fancy college that alone gets you into. Not to mention the appalling cost. Even at a state university it's now a lot.

In any case, given how prestigious ND has become and has ascended to, that would be the best recruiting pitch to hammer home to qualified elite recruits, in a world where a prestige college diploma has become quasi official pedigree status, with very real and tangible privileges. And I'm sure they do. But the direction our economy is headed, I'm not even sure a ND diploma will be defense enough against the dwindling prospects of guaranteed, significant genteel employment with your trusty diploma opening all the doors for you. What with AI ready to wreak havoc all throughout the white collar ranks.

I have no issue with ND becoming an elite academic Institution. Fine. I just think it's hypocritical to maintain a moral line when it participates in competition that is anything but moral.

ND leadership and some supporters, who I bet are a minority, get to posture as morally and intellectually superior.

BTW: your last paragraph is a bit of a tangent. I don't fear AI. There has never been a long term loss of jobs. I don't believe things will be different this time because of an nth wave AI industrial revolution.

Degrees still matter. Always will. But, only if they're correlated to real education, knowledge, skill, and work ethic. Yes, the kids who go to elite schools tend to be that, due to high admission standards.

Coming back full circle, you can still have this and yet offer the easy path for athletes. Some here said if that happens, they'd abandon ND. Jesus Christ...talk about moral imperialism! A tiny minority of kids giving the school an additional brand and wider sense of Catholic identity and community would offend them...because they take easier courses and better themselves.

Wow.

 

[domerjake]

Spot on. I loved my time at ND but, if ND was not located in South Bend, there would be no reason, on God's green earth, to ever be there.

You can say the same thing for tuscaloosa

 

[Patrirish]

I have no issue with ND becoming an elite academic Institution. Fine. I just think it's hypocritical to maintain a moral line when it participates in competition that is anything but moral.

ND leadership and some supporters, who I bet are a minority, get to posture as morally and intellectually superior.

BTW: your last paragraph is a bit of a tangent. I don't fear AI. There has never been a long term loss of jobs. I don't believe things will be different this time because of an nth wave AI industrial revolution.

Degrees still matter. Always will. But, only if they're correlated to real education, knowledge, skill, and work ethic. Yes, the kids who go to elite schools tend to be that, due to high admission standards.

Coming back full circle, you can still have this and yet offer the easy path for athletes. Some here said if that happens, they'd abandon ND. Jesus Christ...talk about moral imperialism! A tiny minority of kids giving the school an additional brand and wider sense of Catholic identity and community would offend them...because they take easier courses and better themselves.

Wow.

Notre Dame is already an elite academic institution

And no, you can’t offer an easy path for athletes while maintaining higher academic standards

It’s obvious that you didn’t attend Notre Dame

 

[banmate6]

Notre Dame is already an elite academic institution

And no, you can’t offer an easy path for athletes while maintaining higher academic standards

It’s obvious that you didn’t attend Notre Dame

I never claimed to have attended ND. But I’ll bite: how is it obvious to you I didn’t.

😉