ND's 2016 Defensive Depth Chart

[IrishInOntario]

I've been focusing on the offense lately and I just wanted to turn my attention to the defense for a moment. I know allot of people think this defense is going to be deplorable in 2016, but as long as ND can stay relatively healthy (as is the case with just about anyone's defense) I really like the speed and aggression this defense will bring to the table.

I think it's important to realize that while ND may be thin at some positions, BVG is going to have some guys cross trained to shore up the depth. Here is my first projected depth chart for ND's defense in 2016.

SDE: Isaac Rochell (SR)
2. Jay Hayes (JR)

NG: Jarron Jones (5TH)
2. Daniel Cage (JR)

DT: Jerry Tillery (SOPH)
2. Daniel Cage (JR)

WDE: Andrew Trumbetti (JR)
2. Daelin Hayes (FR)

SAM: James Onwualu (SR)
2. Asmar Bilal (SOPH)

MIKE: Nyles Morgan (JR)
2. Greer Martini (JR)

WILL: Te'von Coney (SOPH)
2. Greer Martini (JR)

CB: Cole Luke (SR)
2. Devin Butler (SR)

FS: Max Redfield (SR)
2. Devin Studstill (FR)

SS: Drue Tranquil (JR)
2. Avery Sebastien (6th)

CB: Shaun Crawford (SOPH)
2. Nick Watinkins (JR)

NB: Nick Watkins (JR)
2. Devin Butler (SR)

Note: Crawford will shift inside as the slot nickel. Watkins / Butler would play outside at corner.

Other players who will see "3rd team" meaningful minutes.

DE: Khalid Kareem (FR)
DT: John Bonner (JR)
LB: Josh Barajas (SOPH)
DB: Nick Coleman (SOPH)
DB: Jalen Elliot (FR)

 

[NDCap]

Expect Jamir Jones to make the 2- deep at LB . He is that good. I don't understand why Studstill is not playing SS. The incoming Freshmen is the secondary will provide some talent at the FS and SS positions. They need guys that can ball hawk from the safety position. Luke, Watkins, and Crawford will be very good at CB. NO one can replace jaylon but that's understandable . I like the DL , but fear the LB group has a bunch of 2's playing . No stars . Need stars.

 

[Bodizephax]

I've been focusing on the offense lately and I just wanted to turn my attention to the defense for a moment. I know allot of people think this defense is going to be deplorable in 2016, but as long as ND can stay relatively healthy (as is the case with just about anyone's defense) I really like the speed and aggression this defense will bring to the table.

I think it's important to realize that while ND may be thin at some positions, BVG is going to have some guys cross trained to shore up the depth. Here is my first projected depth chart for ND's defense in 2016.

SDE: Isaac Rochell (SR)
2. Jay Hayes (JR)

NG: Jarron Jones (5TH)
2. Daniel Cage (JR)

DT: Jerry Tillery (SOPH)
2. Daniel Cage (JR)

WDE: Andrew Trumbetti (JR)
2. Daelin Hayes (FR)

SAM: James Onwualu (SR)
2. Asmar Bilal (SOPH)

MIKE: Nyles Morgan (JR)
2. Greer Martini (JR)

WILL: Te'von Coney (SOPH)
2. Greer Martini (JR)

CB: Cole Luke (SR)
2. Devin Butler (SR)

FS: Max Redfield (SR)
2. Devin Studstill (FR)

SS: Drue Tranquil (JR)
2. Avery Sebastien (6th)

CB: Shaun Crawford (SOPH)
2. Nick Watinkins (JR)

NB: Nick Watkins (JR)
2. Devin Butler (SR)

Note: Crawford will shift inside as the slot nickel. Watkins / Butler would play outside at corner.

Other players who will see "3rd team" meaningful minutes.

DE: Khalid Kareem (FR)
DT: John Bonner (JR)
LB: Josh Barajas (SOPH)
DB: Nick Coleman (SOPH)
DB: Jalen Elliot (FR)

The Irish have quite a lot of talent on the defense. I think they will do better in BVG's third year.
The awesome running attack the Irish will unleash on offense should help our defense by keeping them off the field so much.

 

[Shakin' Down the Thunder]

How many other teams outside of Bama, OSU, and FSU have this kinda talent on their 2 deep? The talent is there! No reason ND can't have a top 20 defense in YPG and PPG. Yes, there are 5-6 new starters, but it's not as if every offense ND's defense is seeing this year is returning all 11 starters. With that said, I think lack of experience is no big deal. If you're talented enough and well coached, you'll be fine. Biggest concern I have is tackling, corner play, and pass rush. Rochelle and Trumbetti as the D-ends in all honesty, don't scare most OCs. However, I'm confident that the front 7 will not get pushed around and if this leads to more 2nd and long, 3rd and long. ND will be in a position to move Rochelle inside at 3 technique and have Hayes and Kareem in for pass rush. But again, ND has to tackle better, the DBs need to be on the same page to prevent big plays and YAC, and front 7 needs to stuff the run. ND does that, I think we can see alot of QBs making errors and forcing throws leading to turnovers.

 

[TheDecker]

My issues with your list:

Cage is a pure NT, can't play 3-Tech (at all)

Barajas will be somewhere in the LB 2-Deep and get PT. He may be out most physically gifted LB

Luke and Watkins have take literally every single snap as the #1 CBs this spring and by all accounts Watkins has been playing well. He also aquitted himself well in the bowl game. I think you've got Crawford and Watkins flipped.
Crawford will be the NB with Watkins the outside CB....but we'll be in our Nickle Package far more often with Watkins healthy

You should cross list Tranquil and the Dime Back, as he's been praticing there a lot and played that way in 2014 and 2015

 

[Bodizephax]

My issues with your list:

Cage is a pure NT, can't play 3-Tech (at all)

Barajas will be somewhere in the LB 2-Deep and get PT. He may be out most physically gifted LB

Luke and Watkins have take literally every single snap as the #1 CBs this spring and by all accounts Watkins has been playing well. He also aquitted himself well in the bowl game. I think you've got Crawford and Watkins flipped.
Crawford will be the NB with Watkins the outside CB....but we'll be in our Nickle Package far more often with Watkins healthy

You should cross list Tranquil and the Dime Back, as he's been praticing there a lot and played that way in 2014 and 2015

How is Drue's health? Has he recovered?

 

[TheDecker]

My update would be:

WDE
Tranquill
D. Hayes OR
Blankenahip

NT
J. Jones
Cage
Mokwauh

DT
Tillery
Rochell OR
J. Hayes

SDE
Rochell
Blankenship OR
Bonner

WLB
Coney OR
Bilal OR
Barajas

MLB
Morgan
Barajas OR
Martini

WLB
Onwaulu
Martini OR
Bilal

Dime
Tranquill
Perry

CB
Luke
Coleman OR
Crawford

CB
Watkins
Butler OR
Pride

NB
Crawford
Butler

FS
Redfield
Studstill
Elliott

SS
Tranquill
Avery
Perry

 

[TheDecker]

How is Drue's health? Has he recovered?

According to reports he playing a lot in the spring, is taking contact (at least some), and is playing well enough that they're working on moving him all around the formations

It's been reported he's running at the #1 SS spot, covering TEs out of the Slot, and has been moving onto the edge and rushing the passer in the Dime Package

 

[IrishInOntario]

My update would be:

WDE
Tranquill
D. Hayes OR
Blankenahip

NT
J. Jones
Cage
Mokwauh

DT
Tillery
Rochell OR
J. Hayes

SDE
Rochell
Blankenship OR
Bonner

WLB
Coney OR
Bilal OR
Barajas

MLB
Morgan
Barajas OR
Martini

WLB
Onwaulu
Martini OR
Bilal

Dime
Tranquill
Perry

CB
Luke
Coleman OR
Crawford

CB
Watkins
Butler OR
Pride

NB
Crawford
Butler

FS
Redfield
Studstill
Elliott

SS
Tranquill
Avery
Perry

Decker,

I agree with some of your thoughts as well. Here is my explanation regarding why I listed guys as I did. I don't feel that BVG is the type of coach that will go "overly deep" with his personnel unless he has because of injury. That's why I think you'll see a lot of 3-for-2 at the DE, NG / DT and Mike / Will positions for example...

I think that at DE, while a guy like Blankenship might get some work if he continues to develop, I think you'll Jay Hayes as a swing type of guy that will be the next-man-in at both DE positions, before a 4th guy gets in there. When a 4th guy gets in the game, I think it will be Hayes in pass-rushing situations, and possibly as part of a "nickel" or "dime" package. A guy like Blankenship probably only figures into the actual rotation in an instance of injury, or when ND is playing a run heavy team where they want two full units of DL. In most instances (if everyone is healthy) I think it's Rochell / Trumbetti / J. Hayes and then Daelin Hayes as he develops as a pass rusher. I think the 5th guy becomes Khalid Kareem if the staff can keep adding some size and strength to him between April 17th and September. I see no reason why they won't be able to bulk him up another 5-7lbs of good weight and get him on the depth chart. By all accounts, he's doing very well for a freshman DL. Being EE's will be huge for both and Hayes (and the ND defense).

While I think Barajas is going to be very good at ND, I don't think 2016 is the year he makes a significant impact if the linebackers stay healthy (would love to be wrong though). Morgan is the obvious starter at Mike and I expect Coney to start at Will, but I see another 3-for-2 rotation there. I think the first guy in at either of those in-the-box LB positions is Greer Martini. He's done nothing but play well when he's been given the opportunity and he'll be the guy that BVG has ready to rotate in at both spots. So while I think Barajas will be the #2 listed at Will, in reality, I believe he''' be the 4th man in after Morgan, Coney and Martini. While Bilal is being cross trained at Will while the LB is so thin, his future is as Onwualu's backup and eventual replacement. His body type (lean and athletic) and his skill set (fast and active) scream SAM, the position Jaylon would have played had ND not been afraid of opponents scheming him outside the box. Another thing to consider is that beyond those 6 names, it wouldn't shock me to see either Tranquil as hang defender in a nickel or dime package, or Hayes in a sub package lined up at LB as well. ND will use a lot of different looks there.

As for NG / DT, I think you're right about Cage being more of a pure noseguard. Rochell (as he's done in the past) can slide down to that DT spot and Bonner is going to get a look there as well. I expect that to be one of the last things sorted out in the fall and it might even go into late September. Finding a legitimate, active, capable #2 behind Tillery is going to be important. That's also why Jay Hayes needs to be able to play both DE spots to push Rochell down inside when needed and keep the presence of a run-stopping DE on the field at the same time.

The Watkins / Crawford battle is going to be a good one. You may be right and Watkins might be the starter there. He certainly is as of now. He'll be on a short leash though because people are raving about how quickly Crawford is coming back from injury and that kid is going to be a star. He may only be 5'8.5, but he's like an advanced Cody Riggs in terms of his athleticism and instincts. Either way, we agree he's a lock to be the nickel and play inside. I think Studstill, as well as Jalen Elliot will factor into the depth chart as freshman and my darkhorse is Troy Pride Jr although CB seems to be fairly locked up right now.

Note: A lot of people worry about ND's linebackers and their lack of depth, but what they forget is that ND will probably play somewhere between 40-50% of their snaps in Nickel and Dime next year (mostly vs spread teams) which means that there will often only be 2 "real" linebackers on the field. Expect to see a lot of... Morgan / Onwualu / Martini / Coney in those situations. Two on the field, with two waiting to rotate off the bench,

 

[TheDecker]

The offense, just becuAse I'm bored

QB
Zaire OR
Kizer
Wimbush

RB
Folston OR
Adams
D. Williams

WRw
Boykin OR
St. Brown
McKinley OR
Claypool

WRx
St. Brown OR
Hunter
Holmes OR
Stepherson

Slot
Hunter
Holmes OR
Sanders

TE
Smythe OR
A. Jones OR
Weishar

LT
McGlinchey
Bivin

LG
Nelson
Hoge OR
Bivin

C
Mustipher
Hoge

RG
Bars OR
Bivin OR
Hoge

RT
Bars OR
Bivin
Harrell

 

[IrishInOntario]

According to reports he playing a lot in the spring, is taking contact (at least some), and is playing well enough that they're working on moving him all around the formations

It's been reported he's running at the #1 SS spot, covering TEs out of the Slot, and has been moving onto the edge and rushing the passer in the Dime Package

Drue will definitely be the hang defender in dime and against NAVY. He's the perfect size and skill set for the job at 6'2, 220'ish lbs... Expect Spencer Perry and D.J. Morgan to be groomed into that role as well. This defense works well with those 6'2-6'3, 220lb jumbo safeties that run like 4.65, can cover and play in run support. ND needs to take 1-2 guys like that every year. They do you wonders in Nickel and Dime situations.

 

[IrishInOntario]

The offense, just becuAse I'm bored

QB
Zaire OR
Kizer
Wimbush

RB
Folston OR
Adams
D. Williams

WRw
Boykin OR
St. Brown
McKinley OR
Claypool

WRx
St. Brown OR
Hunter
Holmes OR
Stepherson

Slot
Hunter
Holmes OR
Sanders

TE
Smythe OR
A. Jones OR
Weishar

LT
McGlinchey
Bivin

LG
Nelson
Hoge OR
Bivin

C
Mustipher
Hoge

RG
Bars OR
Bivin OR
Hoge

RT
Bars OR
Bivin
Harrell

Decker,

On offense I have it...

QB: Deshone Kizer or Malik Zaire
2. Deshone Kizer or Malik Zaire

RB: Tarean Folston or Josh Adams
2. Tarean Folston or Josh Adams

WR (W): Equanimeous St. Brown
2. Corey Robinson

WR (X): Torii Hunter
2. Kevin Stepherson

Slot: C.J. Sanders
2. Corey Holmes

TE: Alize Jones
2. Durham Smyth

LT: Mike McGlinchey
2. Hunter Biven

LG: Quenton Nelson
2. Tommy Kraemer

C: Sam Mustipher
2. Tristen Hoge

RG: Alex Bars
2. Colin McGovern

RT: Hunter Bivin
2. Alex Bars

Quarterback is fairly obvious with Kizer and Zaire battling it out for the starting job and the other sitting rather angrily on the bench watching. Kelly will drag that competition out as far as he can and to make sure that neither of his prized QB's transfer out before the season starts. Wimbush is the obvious #3 and Kelly will redshirt him if he can.

Running back is a legitimate either / or type of situation. Both Folston and Adams do things well and this offense will lean on the run game, getting both of them plenty of touches. Behind them, Dexter Williams will get some much needed touches in most games this year, preparing for Folston's departure and his rise into the 1-2 punch role with Adams.

We seem to disagree some at wide receiver. I think you'll see Hunter play X full time this year, although they may move him into the slot at times like hey did with TJ Jones. Hunter is the most dynamic receiver on the team and the best route runner. He's going to play the Will Fuller role and I'm betting he's going to remind a lot of people of Mardy Gilyard when he was at Cinci. Very slippery and a good route runner. Not the blazing speed of Fuller, but fast enough to separate and better route runner than Will, with better hands. Although I'm listing Stepherson behind Hunter, I see this being another 3 for 2 situation, with St. Brown as the starter at W, but the "next man in" at X as well (the reason he's spent all spring cross training). The reason they'll do that is because their 3rd best guy is probably Corey Robinson, who plays only the W position and easy to bring C-Rob and move EQ over if Hunter comes out. I know Myles Boykin has drawn rave reviews and it's a shame he hurt himself this spring, but I think he's going to have to wait a little bit longer to make a significant impact, barring injury. I just don't see him playing big minutes over Robinson or St. Brown at the W right now. The slot seems set with C.J. Sanders (as long as his hip is ok) and Corey Holmes. I actually don't think you'll see a slot receiver on the field as often as ND deployed him last year though. This offense will be geared more toward the run game and ND has 3 TE's that they really, really like. By splitting Alize Jones into the slot and playing either Smythe or Weishar as an attached or move TE, ND creates a scenario where they have an extra blocker in their run game and a big mismatch in the slot with Alize (who do you use to defend him). I expect to see exponentially more 2 TE, than 1 TE and 1 slot this year, although both will still be utilized plenty.

To me, the offensive line seems pretty simple. Harry will have 8 guys ready to play unless he needs more. The 5 that seem to be looking like the starters are McGlinchey, Nelson, Mustipher (all locks on the left side and at center), with Bars and Bivin figuring it out at right guard and tackle. Behind them you have Tristen Hoge who can play either guard or center, Colin McGovern, who can play either guard spot and Tommy Kraemer, who like Quenton Nelson is going to come in as a 6'5, 320lber ready to contribute right away at guard. That means that that whoever plays RG between Bars and Bivin is actually the 3rd tackle and injury to either tackle would seem them slide outside with either Hoge / McGovern / Kraemer coming in off the bench to replace him at RG... Behind them, you'll see Mark Harrell as that veteran, emergency, 9th lineman who can help you anywhere in a pinch.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Expect Jamir Jones to make the 2- deep at LB . He is that good. I don't understand why Studstill is not playing SS. The incoming Freshmen is the secondary will provide some talent at the FS and SS positions. They need guys that can ball hawk from the safety position. Luke, Watkins, and Crawford will be very good at CB. NO one can replace jaylon but that's understandable . I like the DL , but fear the LB group has a bunch of 2's playing . No stars . Need stars.

I think Jamir Jones is going to be one hell of a Will linebacker someday. He's got the frame to be a 6'2, 245lb man child that looks and plays like those SEC backers we always talk about. With that said, much like his brother, it will be a huge jump in competition from New York high school football to ND's level of competition. I have high hopes for Jones just like you. His senior film is fun to watch if you haven't already seen it (although his competition is terrible), but give him some time. He's going to need it to figure out the speed of the game at the college level.

I also don't necessarily agree that you need "stars" in your front 7 on defense to build a really damn good unit. John Chavis at LSU built very good front 7's for a long time on the backs of 3 and 4 star recruits that fit his system. He built solid depth and had tough, athletic kids. His front 7's would start 5 or 6 kids that would make it to the NFL, but rarely were they first round type talent. Just a group of future NFL'ers playing college football... I see a similar unit for ND in 2016. The big question is experience. Looking at the group... Rochell is probably a 3rd round pick. Jarron Jones should be in that range as well, but could go higher with a huge senior season. Jerry Tillery will probably someday be in that category as well with his athleticism. That leaves Andrew Trumbetti as the "unknown" which is what we said about Romeo Okwara before Gilmore turned him into a middle round pick in a single season. Nyles Morgan will be drafted after his senior season. In what round it's too early too tell. Onwualu is probably as special teams guys in the NFL. Not likely a draft pick, put a guy who does a lot of things on specials and will get a call post draft. That leaves Coney, who it's way too early too tell... Front 7's are often more about the sum of the parts than an individual star. I'd rather have a front 7 by committee (a good committee of course) and stars in my secondary (which is something LSU did have) than an elite front 7 and mash unit secondary. Would I want to have Jaylon Smith, Manti Te'o, Stephon Tuitt and Justin Tuck in my front 7 each year? Of course I would. But you don't need those guys to be very, very good. You just need to be able to stop the run and rush the passer with sub packages.

 

[bizzybecknd]

I hope to hell Bilal passes James O, I just don't think he brings much to the table. Think he is in the wrong position. Safety would have been a better fit in my opinion. He gets overwhelmed at the point and despite his speed, don't remember him making a play in coverage. Think he would be better as a Ttanquil type. He just doesn't belong on the field.

 

[Bumpdaddy]

My issues with your list:

Cage is a pure NT, can't play 3-Tech (at all)

Barajas will be somewhere in the LB 2-Deep and get PT. He may be out most physically gifted LB

Luke and Watkins have take literally every single snap as the #1 CBs this spring and by all accounts Watkins has been playing well. He also aquitted himself well in the bowl game. I think you've got Crawford and Watkins flipped.
Crawford will be the NB with Watkins the outside CB....but we'll be in our Nickle Package far more often with Watkins healthy

You should cross list Tranquil and the Dime Back, as he's been praticing there a lot and played that way in 2014 and 2015

Watkins was running with the ones on Friday but according to Eric Hansen Crawford has also been running with the ones at times and not just in nickel packages. Hansen thinks he might have the inside track to start based on how much the coaches have gushed over him.

 

[NewHampshireIrish]

Good morning, fellas.

I thought that I had read/listened to a podcast where the coaches had shifted Jay Hayes out to the WDE position to give some depth behind Trumbetti. Has anyone else heard this, or am I crazy and am mixing him up with someone else? He doesn't seem like a natural at WDE.

Do you have any thoughts on how packages might change when in obvious pass/run situations? Or any thoughts how we might align against teams like Stanford/MSU vs more wide open teams?

A lineup like this in obvious passing situations has me feeling excited:

-----------------Redfield-------Studstill
Watkins-----------------------------------------Luke
Tranquill-----Morgan------Bilal-------Crawford
--------Trumbetti-----Rochell------Daelin Hayes

Thoughts?

 

[IrishInOntario]

I hope to hell Bilal passes James O, I just don't think he brings much to the table. Think he is in the wrong position. Safety would have been a better fit in my opinion. He gets overwhelmed at the point and despite his speed, don't remember him making a play in coverage. Think he would be better as a Ttanquil type. He just doesn't belong on the field.

ND guys have a history of having quality senior seasons under Brian Kelly. Guys tend to step up as seniors when needed. They've mentioned in the past that Onwualu does a nice job as a cover down linebacker that allows them to stay in their base defense a lot more against many teams. Regardless, if he's the weakest link he'll be the one coming out in favour of the the nickel back anyways, so no worries. I just have the feeling that he's going to play better than many ND fans expect him to.

 

[greengael]

I agree .Senior laden teams are what B.C. and Stanford have used to give N.D. fits for years. In my fifth year as an offensive guard I played against some very talented defensive tackles and handled them rather efficiently. I watched them play later in there careers and would not have had confidence in the same result if I had played them after they were more seasoned.![not by a long shot!, smile]

 

[IrishInOntario]

The thing about Onwualu is that a lot of his productivity actually takes him away from the ball and takes players out of the game, rather than him moving towards the ball, where his production would lead to tackles, tackles for loss, sacks, etc, etc... It's part of BVG's scheme and the primary reason why they kept Jaylon Smith at Will last year, rather than playing him at what would have been his best position, SAM.... I'm not sitting here saying that Onwualu is going to be a monster this year, but I think he will quietly have a productive senior season, make some plays and provide quality leadership to an extremely young linebacking core.... Nyles and Te'Von just need to see ball and run to ball for the most part this year. It will be on Onwualu and Tranquil to set the edge, run the alley and make the important reads in the box.

 

[TheDecker]

Decker,

On offense I have it...

QB: Deshone Kizer or Malik Zaire
2. Deshone Kizer or Malik Zaire

RB: Tarean Folston or Josh Adams
2. Tarean Folston or Josh Adams

WR (W): Equanimeous St. Brown
2. Corey Robinson

WR (X): Torii Hunter
2. Kevin Stepherson

Slot: C.J. Sanders
2. Corey Holmes

TE: Alize Jones
2. Durham Smyth

LT: Mike McGlinchey
2. Hunter Biven

LG: Quenton Nelson
2. Tommy Kraemer

C: Sam Mustipher
2. Tristen Hoge

RG: Alex Bars
2. Colin McGovern

RT: Hunter Bivin
2. Alex Bars

Quarterback is fairly obvious with Kizer and Zaire battling it out for the starting job and the other sitting rather angrily on the bench watching. Kelly will drag that competition out as far as he can and to make sure that neither of his prized QB's transfer out before the season starts. Wimbush is the obvious #3 and Kelly will redshirt him if he can.

Running back is a legitimate either / or type of situation. Both Folston and Adams do things well and this offense will lean on the run game, getting both of them plenty of touches. Behind them, Dexter Williams will get some much needed touches in most games this year, preparing for Folston's departure and his rise into the 1-2 punch role with Adams.

We seem to disagree some at wide receiver. I think you'll see Hunter play X full time this year, although they may move him into the slot at times like hey did with TJ Jones. Hunter is the most dynamic receiver on the team and the best route runner. He's going to play the Will Fuller role and I'm betting he's going to remind a lot of people of Mardy Gilyard when he was at Cinci. Very slippery and a good route runner. Not the blazing speed of Fuller, but fast enough to separate and better route runner than Will, with better hands. Although I'm listing Stepherson behind Hunter, I see this being another 3 for 2 situation, with St. Brown as the starter at W, but the "next man in" at X as well (the reason he's spent all spring cross training). The reason they'll do that is because their 3rd best guy is probably Corey Robinson, who plays only the W position and easy to bring C-Rob and move EQ over if Hunter comes out. I know Myles Boykin has drawn rave reviews and it's a shame he hurt himself this spring, but I think he's going to have to wait a little bit longer to make a significant impact, barring injury. I just don't see him playing big minutes over Robinson or St. Brown at the W right now. The slot seems set with C.J. Sanders (as long as his hip is ok) and Corey Holmes. I actually don't think you'll see a slot receiver on the field as often as ND deployed him last year though. This offense will be geared more toward the run game and ND has 3 TE's that they really, really like. By splitting Alize Jones into the slot and playing either Smythe or Weishar as an attached or move TE, ND creates a scenario where they have an extra blocker in their run game and a big mismatch in the slot with Alize (who do you use to defend him). I expect to see exponentially more 2 TE, than 1 TE and 1 slot this year, although both will still be utilized plenty.

To me, the offensive line seems pretty simple. Harry will have 8 guys ready to play unless he needs more. The 5 that seem to be looking like the starters are McGlinchey, Nelson, Mustipher (all locks on the left side and at center), with Bars and Bivin figuring it out at right guard and tackle. Behind them you have Tristen Hoge who can play either guard or center, Colin McGovern, who can play either guard spot and Tommy Kraemer, who like Quenton Nelson is going to come in as a 6'5, 320lber ready to contribute right away at guard. That means that that whoever plays RG between Bars and Bivin is actually the 3rd tackle and injury to either tackle would seem them slide outside with either Hoge / McGovern / Kraemer coming in off the bench to replace him at RG... Behind them, you'll see Mark Harrell as that veteran, emergency, 9th lineman who can help you anywhere in a pinch.

Main disagreements:

1. I hadn't heard tha Boykin was hurt. Is that true?
(He's part of the Friday practice reports)

2. Robinson is hurt and has barely practiced this spring. I love Corey and want him to be a big time player here...but I'm starting to think that concussions and other interests will have him either off the team by fall or taking a minor role. I think Boykin passes him by the start of August.

3. Holmes has been getting a lot of attention this spring. With Sanders out for the spring, I think they split reps.

4. I think Hunter moves around ALOT. Heck, they had him play some DB last year, in a pinch.

5. I think Bars is the RT. Bivin just doesn't have the athleticism to lay on the edge anymore and Bars is just a natural OT.

6. Bivin ends up competing with Hige for the RG spot....and I can see either of them winning it.

7. Doubt a True Frosh OL will be on the 2nd string. They'll want to RS all the OL, unless they're going to start.



One concern I have is that we really need these situations to start to get resolved quickly, so the offense can begin building cohesion.

I'm especially worried about the timing and chemistry between QB and WR as well as coordination between the OLs and between the OL and RB

The talent is there, but we need to start developing cohesive units

 

[TheDecker]

Watkins was running with the ones on Friday but according to Eric Hansen Crawford has also been running with the ones at times and not just in nickel packages. Hansen thinks he might have the inside track to start based on how much the coaches have gushed over him.

I love Crawford, and if he's the 2nd best CB, I'm all for it.

But I think Watkins will seize that spot.

However, I think we end up in sub packages OFTEN this year, so Crawford will be on the field, no matter what

 

[cgvr]

Decker,

On offense I have it...

QB: Deshone Kizer or Malik Zaire
2. Deshone Kizer or Malik Zaire

RB: Tarean Folston or Josh Adams
2. Tarean Folston or Josh Adams

WR (W): Equanimeous St. Brown
2. Corey Robinson

WR (X): Torii Hunter
2. Kevin Stepherson

Slot: C.J. Sanders
2. Corey Holmes

TE: Alize Jones
2. Durham Smyth

LT: Mike McGlinchey
2. Hunter Biven

LG: Quenton Nelson
2. Tommy Kraemer

C: Sam Mustipher
2. Tristen Hoge

RG: Alex Bars
2. Colin McGovern

RT: Hunter Bivin
2. Alex Bars

Quarterback is fairly obvious with Kizer and Zaire battling it out for the starting job and the other sitting rather angrily on the bench watching. Kelly will drag that competition out as far as he can and to make sure that neither of his prized QB's transfer out before the season starts. Wimbush is the obvious #3 and Kelly will redshirt him if he can.

Running back is a legitimate either / or type of situation. Both Folston and Adams do things well and this offense will lean on the run game, getting both of them plenty of touches. Behind them, Dexter Williams will get some much needed touches in most games this year, preparing for Folston's departure and his rise into the 1-2 punch role with Adams.

We seem to disagree some at wide receiver. I think you'll see Hunter play X full time this year, although they may move him into the slot at times like hey did with TJ Jones. Hunter is the most dynamic receiver on the team and the best route runner. He's going to play the Will Fuller role and I'm betting he's going to remind a lot of people of Mardy Gilyard when he was at Cinci. Very slippery and a good route runner. Not the blazing speed of Fuller, but fast enough to separate and better route runner than Will, with better hands. Although I'm listing Stepherson behind Hunter, I see this being another 3 for 2 situation, with St. Brown as the starter at W, but the "next man in" at X as well (the reason he's spent all spring cross training). The reason they'll do that is because their 3rd best guy is probably Corey Robinson, who plays only the W position and easy to bring C-Rob and move EQ over if Hunter comes out. I know Myles Boykin has drawn rave reviews and it's a shame he hurt himself this spring, but I think he's going to have to wait a little bit longer to make a significant impact, barring injury. I just don't see him playing big minutes over Robinson or St. Brown at the W right now. The slot seems set with C.J. Sanders (as long as his hip is ok) and Corey Holmes. I actually don't think you'll see a slot receiver on the field as often as ND deployed him last year though. This offense will be geared more toward the run game and ND has 3 TE's that they really, really like. By splitting Alize Jones into the slot and playing either Smythe or Weishar as an attached or move TE, ND creates a scenario where they have an extra blocker in their run game and a big mismatch in the slot with Alize (who do you use to defend him). I expect to see exponentially more 2 TE, than 1 TE and 1 slot this year, although both will still be utilized plenty.

To me, the offensive line seems pretty simple. Harry will have 8 guys ready to play unless he needs more. The 5 that seem to be looking like the starters are McGlinchey, Nelson, Mustipher (all locks on the left side and at center), with Bars and Bivin figuring it out at right guard and tackle. Behind them you have Tristen Hoge who can play either guard or center, Colin McGovern, who can play either guard spot and Tommy Kraemer, who like Quenton Nelson is going to come in as a 6'5, 320lber ready to contribute right away at guard. That means that that whoever plays RG between Bars and Bivin is actually the 3rd tackle and injury to either tackle would seem them slide outside with either Hoge / McGovern / Kraemer coming in off the bench to replace him at RG... Behind them, you'll see Mark Harrell as that veteran, emergency, 9th lineman who can help you anywhere in a pinch.

H back? Jumbo?

 

[Telx1]

IIO and Decker...thanks for the level of detail in your posts here. Been out of country and largely out of touch, and you two have help d bridge the info gap for me. Much appreciated.

 

[TheDecker]

H back? Jumbo?

Are you asking if we're going to start using an H-Back?

We've almost always used 2 TEs over an HB/FB in power formations, since that's what the talent in the roster has dictated (and will certainly again this year)

 

[Java65]

I'm not sure D. Hayes is going to see the 2 deep. He's played 7 HS varsity football games total, not just his Sr. year. He's still not doing any contact in spring to protect his shoulder. Great athlete but he hasn't played football in a long time.

 

[TheDecker]

I'm not sure D. Hayes is going to see the 2 deep. He's played 7 HS varsity football games total, not just his Sr. year. He's still not doing any contact in spring to protect his shoulder. Great athlete but he hasn't played football in a long time.

Kelly said on Friday that he is taking some contact in the spring (which was a change from what he'd said in the past)

Whether he's in the "2-Deep" or not, I think we're going to see him be the guy that comes onto the field as a "Pass Rush Specialist"

I wouldn't be surprise if our 3rd-and-Long defense is a Dime Package that looks like:
WDE - D. Hayes
NT - Tillery
DT - Rochell
SDE - Trumbetti
MLB - Morgan
Dime - Tranquil
Nickle - Crawford
CB - Luke
CB - Waktins
FS - Redfield
SS - Studstill (though I could also see them choosing to move this position around in order to get Butler onto the field)

 

[IrishInOntario]

H back? Jumbo?

Smythe / Weishar / Matuska will handle the move tight end and blocking tight end roles that ND uses instead of a fullback.

Jones / Weishar will handle the split TE, passing catching role in the ND offense.

 

[cgvr]

Are you asking if we're going to start using an H-Back?

We've almost always used 2 TEs over an HB/FB in power formations, since that's what the talent in the roster has dictated (and will certainly again this year)

Luatua lined up as an H back.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Luatua lined up as an H back.

H-back and Move TE = Same thing. Smythe will be the first guy in when ND plays those sets and Weishar would be next. A'lize will be much more of the split out guy. Matuska play the role of the overload blocker, which is a very specific, but important, niche in this offense. I expect him to be really solid at it. Jacob has always been a tough kid, he's a big, strong body and he's a better athlete than people think. Was a really good high school TE back in Ohio. This role will come fairly natural to him.

Had Luatua been dedicated to playing the position ND had him at and taken it seriously, he would have been a fabulous H-back type in his junior and senior seasons. Unfortunately, he wanted to be more of a standard tight end and in ND's offense he had neither the height, nor the consistent hands to be a downfield vertical threat... Really a shame, because when Tyler did what he was supposed to do, he crushed people. Go back and watch the LSU game. His blocking was a thing of beauty for the most part. Damn shame he wasn't committed too it.

 

[TheDecker]

H-back and Move TE = Same thing. Smythe will be the first guy in when ND plays those sets and Weishar would be next. A'lize will be much more of the split out guy. Matuska play the role of the overload blocker, which is a very specific, but important, niche in this offense. I expect him to be really solid at it. Jacob has always been a tough kid, he's a big, strong body and he's a better athlete than people think. Was a really good high school TE back in Ohio. This role will come fairly natural to him.

Had Luatua been dedicated to playing the position ND had him at and taken it seriously, he would have been a fabulous H-back type in his junior and senior seasons. Unfortunately, he wanted to be more of a standard tight end and in ND's offense he had neither the height, nor the consistent hands to be a downfield vertical threat... Really a shame, because when Tyler did what he was supposed to do, he crushed people. Go back and watch the LSU game. His blocking was a thing of beauty for the most part. Damn shame he wasn't committed too it.

Agree with all of this

I'm hoping that Smythe is able to make the big jump we've been waiting for (and Kelly has been talking about) this year, and fill that role....as well as bringing the necessary athleticism to attack the middle of the field in the passing game.

If he can do that, I think we can be very dangerous in 2 TE sets, where we combine him with either Jones/Weishar for spread looks and with Matsuka for power formations

 

[IrishInOntario]

Main disagreements:

1. I hadn't heard tha Boykin was hurt. Is that true?
(He's part of the Friday practice reports)

2. Robinson is hurt and has barely practiced this spring. I love Corey and want him to be a big time player here...but I'm starting to think that concussions and other interests will have him either off the team by fall or taking a minor role. I think Boykin passes him by the start of August.

3. Holmes has been getting a lot of attention this spring. With Sanders out for the spring, I think they split reps.

4. I think Hunter moves around ALOT. Heck, they had him play some DB last year, in a pinch.

5. I think Bars is the RT. Bivin just doesn't have the athleticism to lay on the edge anymore and Bars is just a natural OT.

6. Bivin ends up competing with Hige for the RG spot....and I can see either of them winning it.

7. Doubt a True Frosh OL will be on the 2nd string. They'll want to RS all the OL, unless they're going to start.



One concern I have is that we really need these situations to start to get resolved quickly, so the offense can begin building cohesion.

I'm especially worried about the timing and chemistry between QB and WR as well as coordination between the OLs and between the OL and RB

The talent is there, but we need to start developing cohesive units

1. Boykin fractured a finger. He's been held out of pass catching drills and a lot of live play for the first half of the spring.

2. I share your concerns about Robinson and his commitment to football, especially with his concussion history. I know this, however. If he's healthy and on the team, he'll be playing. He's ND's leading returning receiver and we all know how Brian Kelly values experience. Regardless, if Corey isn't on the field, the next guy up is EQ. Jelly wants his best two guys at X/W in the game at the same time. He commented the other day about how he feels Hunter can adequately replace Fuller at the X and that he'll do it differently, but effectively. I think that staff is exceptionally high on Boykin, but higher on EQ (which is a good thing). Like Boykin, EQ has the ideal body and skill set to play W, while Fuller is better suited to play the X position to the field. I have Miles Boykin slotting in just behind EQ (and Cordy if he's playing). With Claypool coming in as well, ND is absolutely loaded at the W position for the forseable future.

3. Agreed with Holmes and Sanders splitting reps, especially with CJ recovering from surgery, while Holmes works all summer with the guys. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see Holmes actually start in the slot, while Sanders gets reps there while retaining his return duties. Good way to get both heavily involved.

4. Agreed on Hunter moving around when needed. Fact is that Torii is ND's best wide receiver and isn't coming off the field unless need be (T.J. Jones style). When ND goes two TE's they'll shift him into the slot at times and invert him and Aliz'e to get more size on the outside and shiftiness in the slot. You'll see that in the redzone some and it will also give Hunter the opportunity to run jet sweeps, bubble's etc, etc. ND can also go really fast by sliding Hunter to the slot and bringing in Stepherson to play X... Kelly called Kevin the best pass catcher on the team. Looks like he's going to play as a true freshman if Denbrock can have him ready.

5. I'm fine with Bars and Bivin on the right side in either arrangement. I agree that Bars has more upside at tackle, but Harry will need to wait until he's further removed from his recovering ankle injury before he'll be able to see it work as a unit. Regardless. An injury at tackle would slide whoever ends up at guard outside, most likely.

6. Still think Hoge is another year in the weight room away from getting his opportunity to start. He's still a little lean by Harry's standards and he'll get there, but I have him as the #7 guy this year (with McGovern ahead of him). Tristen will have a great chance next year, however, although Kraemer is an absolute man child.

7. Speaking of Kraemer... He might be ND's 3rd best OL right now (behind only McGlinchey and Nelson). He's an absolutely massive kid at 6'5.5 and about 325lbs and had wonderful high whoop coaching that will help him be ready for this level. He and Nelson and are at another level relative to freshman OL... In comparison, Boudreaux and Eichenberg are both excellent, but neither is in the same world as Kraemer at this stage. Kelly has already mentioned that he expects Tommy to come in and push the current group right away. Hoge is going to have to fight his ass off not to be passed up by the freshman, as is McGovern... Here is a link to Tommy from this morning's practice (we was attending). Look at how much he dwarfs Parker Boudreaux and Trey Smith (stud!) who are both really big kids in their own right.

Check it out:
http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/2017-recruiting-profiles/265089-17-tn-ot-trey-smith-offer-7.html

 

[greengael]

1. Boykin fractured a finger. He's been held out of pass catching drills and a lot of live play for the first half of the spring.

2. I share your concerns about Robinson and his commitment to football, especially with his concussion history. I know this, however. If he's healthy and on the team, he'll be playing. He's ND's leading returning receiver and we all know how Brian Kelly values experience. Regardless, if Corey isn't on the field, the next guy up is EQ. Jelly wants his best two guys at X/W in the game at the same time. He commented the other day about how he feels Hunter can adequately replace Fuller at the X and that he'll do it differently, but effectively. I think that staff is exceptionally high on Boykin, but higher on EQ (which is a good thing). Like Boykin, EQ has the ideal body and skill set to play W, while Fuller is better suited to play the X position to the field. I have Miles Boykin slotting in just behind EQ (and Cordy if he's playing). With Claypool coming in as well, ND is absolutely loaded at the W position for the forseable future.

3. Agreed with Holmes and Sanders splitting reps, especially with CJ recovering from surgery, while Holmes works all summer with the guys. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see Holmes actually start in the slot, while Sanders gets reps there while retaining his return duties. Good way to get both heavily involved.

4. Agreed on Hunter moving around when needed. Fact is that Torii is ND's best wide receiver and isn't coming off the field unless need be (T.J. Jones style). When ND goes two TE's they'll shift him into the slot at times and invert him and Aliz'e to get more size on the outside and shiftiness in the slot. You'll see that in the redzone some and it will also give Hunter the opportunity to run jet sweeps, bubble's etc, etc. ND can also go really fast by sliding Hunter to the slot and bringing in Stepherson to play X... Kelly called Kevin the best pass catcher on the team. Looks like he's going to play as a true freshman if Denbrock can have him ready.

5. I'm fine with Bars and Bivin on the right side in either arrangement. I agree that Bars has more upside at tackle, but Harry will need to wait until he's further removed from his recovering ankle injury before he'll be able to see it work as a unit. Regardless. An injury at tackle would slide whoever ends up at guard outside, most likely.

6. Still think Hoge is another year in the weight room away from getting his opportunity to start. He's still a little lean by Harry's standards and he'll get there, but I have him as the #7 guy this year (with McGovern ahead of him). Tristen will have a great chance next year, however, although Kraemer is an absolute man child.

7. Speaking of Kraemer... He might be ND's 3rd best OL right now (behind only McGlinchey and Nelson). He's an absolutely massive kid at 6'5.5 and about 325lbs and had wonderful high whoop coaching that will help him be ready for this level. He and Nelson and are at another level relative to freshman OL... In comparison, Boudreaux and Eichenberg are both excellent, but neither is in the same world as Kraemer at this stage. Kelly has already mentioned that he expects Tommy to come in and push the current group right away. Hoge is going to have to fight his ass off not to be passed up by the freshman, as is McGovern... Here is a link to Tommy from this morning's practice (we was attending). Look at how much he dwarfs Parker Boudreaux and Trey Smith (stud!) who are both really big kids in their own right.

Check it out:
http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/2017-recruiting-profiles/265089-17-tn-ot-trey-smith-offer-7.html

Nelson didn't see the field until he was a Sophmore .Don't fall in love with freshman olinemen and don't bet on the white guy in the prizefight![smile. these have always worked for me ever since Oscar Bonavena!]

 

[zonairish]

thanks for the info this is great stuff

 

[IrishInOntario]

Nelson didn't see the field until he was a Sophmore .Don't fall in love with freshman olinemen and don't bet on the white guy in the prizefight![smile. these have always worked for me ever since Oscar Bonavena!]

Nelson didn't need to see the field until he was a sophomore, but he was ready to contribute right away if he was needed. Same will be true of Kraemer. He'll be the 7th-8th OL and will redshirt of health allows it, but Hiestand will play him if need be.

Maybe Echowaker can chime in here, but IMO (and I've been wrong before) Kraemer is the most college ready freshman OL ND has had in a long time. More so than Nelson. He played better competition in the top tier of Ohio football, crushed every guy he went against at the All American bowl practices and is already a lean, strong, 325lbs with outstanding technique... It's rare for a coach (Kelly) to suggest a kid can play right away and may push the group, when he hasn't even arrived on campus yet. Special, special OL.

 

[greengael]

Nelson didn't need to see the field until he was a sophomore, but he was ready to contribute right away if he was needed. Same will be true of Kraemer. He'll be the 7th-8th OL and will redshirt of health allows it, but Hiestand will play him if need be.

Maybe Echowaker can chime in here, but IMO (and I've been wrong before) Kraemer is the most college ready freshman OL ND has had in a long time. More so than Nelson. He played better competition in the top tier of Ohio football, crushed every guy he went against at the All American bowl practices and is already a lean, strong, 325lbs with outstanding technique... It's rare for a coach (Kelly) to suggest a kid can play right away and may push the group, when he hasn't even arrived on campus yet. Special, special OL.

Agreed but Kraemer doesn't "need" to see the field either, does he? We are way past Wenger ,Young having to play early because there were no upperclassman on the roster. The Willingham era oline recruiting legacy has expired.

 

[NewHampshireIrish]

1. Boykin fractured a finger. He's been held out of pass catching drills and a lot of live play for the first half of the spring.

2. I share your concerns about Robinson and his commitment to football, especially with his concussion history. I know this, however. If he's healthy and on the team, he'll be playing. He's ND's leading returning receiver and we all know how Brian Kelly values experience. Regardless, if Corey isn't on the field, the next guy up is EQ. Jelly wants his best two guys at X/W in the game at the same time. He commented the other day about how he feels Hunter can adequately replace Fuller at the X and that he'll do it differently, but effectively. I think that staff is exceptionally high on Boykin, but higher on EQ (which is a good thing). Like Boykin, EQ has the ideal body and skill set to play W, while Fuller is better suited to play the X position to the field. I have Miles Boykin slotting in just behind EQ (and Cordy if he's playing). With Claypool coming in as well, ND is absolutely loaded at the W position for the forseable future.

3. Agreed with Holmes and Sanders splitting reps, especially with CJ recovering from surgery, while Holmes works all summer with the guys. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see Holmes actually start in the slot, while Sanders gets reps there while retaining his return duties. Good way to get both heavily involved.

4. Agreed on Hunter moving around when needed. Fact is that Torii is ND's best wide receiver and isn't coming off the field unless need be (T.J. Jones style). When ND goes two TE's they'll shift him into the slot at times and invert him and Aliz'e to get more size on the outside and shiftiness in the slot. You'll see that in the redzone some and it will also give Hunter the opportunity to run jet sweeps, bubble's etc, etc. ND can also go really fast by sliding Hunter to the slot and bringing in Stepherson to play X... Kelly called Kevin the best pass catcher on the team. Looks like he's going to play as a true freshman if Denbrock can have him ready.

5. I'm fine with Bars and Bivin on the right side in either arrangement. I agree that Bars has more upside at tackle, but Harry will need to wait until he's further removed from his recovering ankle injury before he'll be able to see it work as a unit. Regardless. An injury at tackle would slide whoever ends up at guard outside, most likely.

6. Still think Hoge is another year in the weight room away from getting his opportunity to start. He's still a little lean by Harry's standards and he'll get there, but I have him as the #7 guy this year (with McGovern ahead of him). Tristen will have a great chance next year, however, although Kraemer is an absolute man child.

7. Speaking of Kraemer... He might be ND's 3rd best OL right now (behind only McGlinchey and Nelson). He's an absolutely massive kid at 6'5.5 and about 325lbs and had wonderful high whoop coaching that will help him be ready for this level. He and Nelson and are at another level relative to freshman OL... In comparison, Boudreaux and Eichenberg are both excellent, but neither is in the same world as Kraemer at this stage. Kelly has already mentioned that he expects Tommy to come in and push the current group right away. Hoge is going to have to fight his ass off not to be passed up by the freshman, as is McGovern... Here is a link to Tommy from this morning's practice (we was attending). Look at how much he dwarfs Parker Boudreaux and Trey Smith (stud!) who are both really big kids in their own right.

Check it out:
http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/2017-recruiting-profiles/265089-17-tn-ot-trey-smith-offer-7.html

IIO, do you post over there too?

 

[mbd11]

I think this defense has the talent, along with the offense, to contend for the playoff again this year. But we're a little thin in some areas, like the secondary, so staying healthy will be key. We've seen the last few years that a rash of defensive injuries can derail a season very quickly.

 

[IrishInOntario]

IIO, do you post over there too?

Unfortunately not. I'm simply a lurker over there for all things recruiting related. I love their tidy collection of information accumulated by all sources and put into one thread.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Agreed but Kraemer doesn't "need" to see the field either, does he? We are way past Wenger ,Young having to play early because there were no upperclassman on the roster. The Willingham era oline recruiting legacy has expired.

Gael,

100% agreed on that point. ND's O-line recruiting is among the best in the country and for that reason, Kraemer (as good as he is) will likely have a chance to sit and learn on the bench. That's a beautiful thing!

 

[stu4don]

Thanks guys! Great discussion and it has me pumped for next year.

Question: whatever happened to Justin Brent? (Is he the 4th RB this year?)

And... did Kelly ever give Brent's timed 40 (they did that for everyone at the beginning of the season.) Brent has Procise size, right? How about speed? Any chance he blossoms?