ND/USC rivalry

[4-4-3]

Okay, you are not making any kind of even vaguely compelling argument in defense of the inevitable certainly of ND's indefinitely continued independence. In these proposals ND is being taken care of. There is a single slot left open for them. So that's a moot point. The question will be is the relative pittance they have been afforded be considered good enough, by ND, so that they decline to join a conference even in spite of this less than favorable scenario.

My personal feeling is that it might not be. And that 'money', in some abstract sense, is going to be enough to inspire whichever powers that be settle on the final terms and dispensation, to be like, let's just give ND whatever they want. Whatever ND demands, we'll make it happen, we'll acquiesce. We need them in that playoff every year unless they literally have a losing record, because we need the money, even if they steadfastly refuse to join a conference, and they will be upset and sad if they don't get to be in the playoff every year or something, I don't even know what we're talking about, this is nonsense. The only important upshot is that being an independent is not where you want to be if you want to make the playoff with this sort of qualification format, or have the most chances to make it in on an annual basis. And that's just reality. ND can't win their own conference consisting of a single team.

"The only important upshot is that being an independent is not where you want to be if you want to make the playoff with this sort of qualification format, or have the most chances to make it in on an annual basis. And that's just reality. ND can't win their own conference consisting of a single team."

BULLSEYE.

 

[NDinNJ]

"The only important upshot is that being an independent is not where you want to be if you want to make the playoff with this sort of qualification format, or have the most chances to make it in on an annual basis. And that's just reality. ND can't win their own conference consisting of a single team."

BULLSEYE.

Another moron that doesn't read the actual proposals being considered. You sir are a complete idiot!

 

[4-4-3]

“ proposals”. ?

Name the people making those proposals, along with exactly what they are proposing

"The 14-team playoff format is being proposed by the SEC and Big Ten conferences. Sports Illustrated reports that the SEC and Big Ten are pushing for their conference champions to receive first-round byes in a 14-team playoff. Yahoo Sports notes that these conferences are leading the way in an effort to get more schools in the postseason. ESPN also reports that the Big Ten and SEC had asked for their champions to receive the only two byes in the 14-team field, a proposal that has faced some pushback."
Here's a more detailed breakdown of the proposed format:

• Automatic Qualifiers (AQs):
  The SEC and Big Ten would each have four automatic bids, while the ACC and Big 12 would have two each, and the highest-ranked Group of Five champion would get one.
• At-Large Bids:
  There would be either one or three additional at-large bids for teams that don't win their conference title but are ranked high enough.
• First-Round Byes:
  The top two seeds in the 14-team format would likely receive first-round byes, while the remaining teams would play each other in the first round.
• Impact on the CFP Selection Committee:
  With more automatic qualifiers, the CFP selection committee's role would be diminished, and their primary focus would likely be on ranking teams for the playoff.
• Potential for Conference Championship Games:
  Some argue that multiple automatic qualifiers could reduce the incentive for conferences to hold championship games, as ESPN reported that the potential for more AQs could impact the value of conference championship games.

 

[NDinNJ]

Okay, you are not making any kind of even vaguely compelling argument in defense of the inevitable certainly of ND's indefinitely continued independence. In these proposals ND is being taken care of. There is a single slot left open for them. So that's a moot point. The question will be is the relative pittance they have been afforded be considered good enough, by ND, so that they decline to join a conference even in spite of this less than favorable scenario.

My personal feeling is that it might not be. And that 'money', in some abstract sense, is going to be enough to inspire whichever powers that be settle on the final terms and dispensation, to be like, let's just give ND whatever they want. Whatever ND demands, we'll make it happen, we'll acquiesce. We need them in that playoff every year unless they literally have a losing record, because we need the money, even if they steadfastly refuse to join a conference, and they will be upset and sad if they don't get to be in the playoff every year or something, I don't even know what we're talking about, this is nonsense. The only important upshot is that being an independent is not where you want to be if you want to make the playoff with this sort of qualification format, or have the most chances to make it in on an annual basis. And that's just reality. ND can't win their own conference consisting of a single team.

Clearly, addition and subtraction aren't your strengths.
MORON ALERT.

 

[NDinNJ]

"The 14-team playoff format is being proposed by the SEC and Big Ten conferences. Sports Illustrated reports that the SEC and Big Ten are pushing for their conference champions to receive first-round byes in a 14-team playoff. Yahoo Sports notes that these conferences are leading the way in an effort to get more schools in the postseason. ESPN also reports that the Big Ten and SEC had asked for their champions to receive the only two byes in the 14-team field, a proposal that has faced some pushback."
Here's a more detailed breakdown of the proposed format:

• Automatic Qualifiers (AQs):
  The SEC and Big Ten would each have four automatic bids, while the ACC and Big 12 would have two each, and the highest-ranked Group of Five champion would get one.
• At-Large Bids:
  There would be either one or three additional at-large bids for teams that don't win their conference title but are ranked high enough.
• First-Round Byes:
  The top two seeds in the 14-team format would likely receive first-round byes, while the remaining teams would play each other in the first round.
• Impact on the CFP Selection Committee:
  With more automatic qualifiers, the CFP selection committee's role would be diminished, and their primary focus would likely be on ranking teams for the playoff.
• Potential for Conference Championship Games:
  Some argue that multiple automatic qualifiers could reduce the incentive for conferences to hold championship games, as ESPN reported that the potential for more AQs could impact the value of conference championship games.

14 team playoff is being scrubbed for a 16 team playoff. 14 team playoff is OLD NEWS. Get up to speed MORON.

Plus the 14 team playoff provides for 3 at-large bids. The format would be 3 auto bids each for the Big10 and SEC, 2 auto bids each the ACC and Big12, and 1 autobid for the G5.
3+3+2+2+1 =11 14-11 =3 at-large bids.

BASIC MATH!

Again, the 14 team playoff is OLD NEWS.

College Football Playoff mulling 14-team model with varied automatic bids for Big Ten, SEC and ACC, Big 12

The '3-3-2-2-1' model is one of a few being mulled by conference commissioners

www.cbssports.com

 

[savvyandsassier]

If the last 100 years are any indication, ND will remain independent in football.

They certainly could, they're not locked out of the field. That was never going to happen, and of course some consideration for ND was going to be part of it. Unless CFB eventually adopts an all-out super league of some sort, and breaks away from the NCAA altogether, which could easily happen I think. We have some serious uncharted waters in our future, just for society in general. Short of that, ND just has to hope that whatever playoff format is settled on is at least minimally tolerable. And the proposed 14 team model that's being bandied about, would appear to be right at that threshold. ND needs maximum 'at large' bids. Any sort of UCL-inspired 'access' formula is anathema to its interests.

 

[Patrish]

"The 14-team playoff format is being proposed by the SEC and Big Ten conferences. Sports Illustrated reports that the SEC and Big Ten are pushing for their conference champions to receive first-round byes in a 14-team playoff. Yahoo Sports notes that these conferences are leading the way in an effort to get more schools in the postseason. ESPN also reports that the Big Ten and SEC had asked for their champions to receive the only two byes in the 14-team field, a proposal that has faced some pushback."
Here's a more detailed breakdown of the proposed format:

• Automatic Qualifiers (AQs):
  The SEC and Big Ten would each have four automatic bids, while the ACC and Big 12 would have two each, and the highest-ranked Group of Five champion would get one.
• At-Large Bids:
  There would be either one or three additional at-large bids for teams that don't win their conference title but are ranked high enough.
• First-Round Byes:
  The top two seeds in the 14-team format would likely receive first-round byes, while the remaining teams would play each other in the first round.
• Impact on the CFP Selection Committee:
  With more automatic qualifiers, the CFP selection committee's role would be diminished, and their primary focus would likely be on ranking teams for the playoff.
• Potential for Conference Championship Games:
  Some argue that multiple automatic qualifiers could reduce the incentive for conferences to hold championship games, as ESPN reported that the potential for more AQs could impact the value of conference championship games.

I don’t see the Committee granting automatic buys to those conference champions, but one never knows.

If I was a Committee member, I’d be more concerned about the survival of the committee versus the Big Ten and the SEC usurping that role.

 

[THUNDERSTRUCK111]

With the current structure of the CFP, there’s no reason and no incentive for Notre Dame to join a conference.

Everything is fine just the way things stand right now

Couldn’t agree more.
This format right now is perfect for us.
Just win baby win !

 

[Patrish]

"The 14-team playoff format is being proposed by the SEC and Big Ten conferences. Sports Illustrated reports that the SEC and Big Ten are pushing for their conference champions to receive first-round byes in a 14-team playoff. Yahoo Sports notes that these conferences are leading the way in an effort to get more schools in the postseason. ESPN also reports that the Big Ten and SEC had asked for their champions to receive the only two byes in the 14-team field, a proposal that has faced some pushback."
Here's a more detailed breakdown of the proposed format:

• Automatic Qualifiers (AQs):
  The SEC and Big Ten would each have four automatic bids, while the ACC and Big 12 would have two each, and the highest-ranked Group of Five champion would get one.
• At-Large Bids:
  There would be either one or three additional at-large bids for teams that don't win their conference title but are ranked high enough.
• First-Round Byes:
  The top two seeds in the 14-team format would likely receive first-round byes, while the remaining teams would play each other in the first round.
• Impact on the CFP Selection Committee:
  With more automatic qualifiers, the CFP selection committee's role would be diminished, and their primary focus would likely be on ranking teams for the playoff.
• Potential for Conference Championship Games:
  Some argue that multiple automatic qualifiers could reduce the incentive for conferences to hold championship games, as ESPN reported that the potential for more AQs could impact the value of conference championship games.

Think about the concept of the Big Ten and the SEC getting four automatic bids, with the ACC and the big 12 getting two automatic bids.

That can reward mediocrity and it should be rejected on principle.

A team could have a 7-6 record and get an automatic bid.

The 14 best teams should be given bids irrespective of the conference they come from

If the ACC and the big 12 didn’t have a team ranked in the top 14, why should they get automatic bid

Why should any team not ranked for the top 14 or 20 get an automatic bid?

 

[NIN Irish]

They certainly could, they're not locked out of the field. That was never going to happen, and of course some consideration for ND was going to be part of it. Unless CFB eventually adopts an all-out super league of some sort, and breaks away from the NCAA altogether, which could easily happen I think. We have some serious uncharted waters in our future, just for society in general. Short of that, ND just has to hope that whatever playoff format is settled on is at least minimally tolerable. And the proposed 14 team model that's being bandied about, would appear to be right at that threshold. ND needs maximum 'at large' bids. Any sort of UCL-inspired 'access' formula is anathema to its interests.

I haven't seen anything about 14 team playoff, only a 16 team format, so your scenario is not worth concern. No need to panic joining a conference anytime soon.

 

[savvyandsassier]

"The 14-team playoff format is being proposed by the SEC and Big Ten conferences. Sports Illustrated reports that the SEC and Big Ten are pushing for their conference champions to receive first-round byes in a 14-team playoff. Yahoo Sports notes that these conferences are leading the way in an effort to get more schools in the postseason. ESPN also reports that the Big Ten and SEC had asked for their champions to receive the only two byes in the 14-team field, a proposal that has faced some pushback."
Here's a more detailed breakdown of the proposed format:

• Automatic Qualifiers (AQs):
  The SEC and Big Ten would each have four automatic bids, while the ACC and Big 12 would have two each, and the highest-ranked Group of Five champion would get one.
• At-Large Bids:
  There would be either one or three additional at-large bids for teams that don't win their conference title but are ranked high enough.
• First-Round Byes:
  The top two seeds in the 14-team format would likely receive first-round byes, while the remaining teams would play each other in the first round.
• Impact on the CFP Selection Committee:
  With more automatic qualifiers, the CFP selection committee's role would be diminished, and their primary focus would likely be on ranking teams for the playoff.
• Potential for Conference Championship Games:
  Some argue that multiple automatic qualifiers could reduce the incentive for conferences to hold championship games, as ESPN reported that the potential for more AQs could impact the value of conference championship games.

Obviously ND would prefer 16 over 14. With three at large bids. And I'm sure ND would also particularly love a performance benchmark or whatnot, and a special ND clause to be triggered where they would automatically get one of those bids if they hit or surpass it. And not just the selection committee picking from the also rans at their own discretion, and ND's fate is in their hands. But still wouldn't be great compared to being in any conference, even the ACC. Where you could aspire to your league's allotted automatic bids, as well as fall back on the at-large bids like every other possible contender that doesn't get an auto bid. Whereas independent ND is reduced only to the at-large bid option straightaway, and have no auto-bid to even qualify for.

So it's just a major competitive disadvantage. Which shouldn't be a surprise with ND this singular outlier 'independent' that is eventually going to run afoul of new arrangements that are devised to suit the rest of the programs within the classification, which all belong to conferences.

 

[NDinNJ]

Obviously ND would prefer 16 over 14. With three at large bids. And I'm sure ND would also particularly love a performance benchmark or whatnot, and a special ND clause to be triggered where they would automatically get one of those bids if they hit or surpass it. And not just the selection committee picking from the also rans at their own discretion, and ND's fate is in their hands. But still wouldn't be great compared to being in any conference, even the ACC. Where you could aspire to your league's allotted automatic bids, as well as fall back on the at-large bids like every other possible contender that doesn't get an auto bid. Whereas independent ND is reduced only to the at-large bid option straightaway, and have no auto-bid to even qualify for.

So it's just a major competitive disadvantage. Which shouldn't be a surprise with ND this singular outlier 'independent' that is eventually going to run afoul of new arrangements that are devised to suit the rest of the programs within the classification, which all belong to conferences.

Nausea.

 

[4-4-3]

I don’t see the Committee granting automatic buys to those conference champions, but one never knows.

If I was a Committee member, I’d be more concerned about the survival of the committee versus the Big Ten and the SEC usurping that role.

I haven't looked CLOSELY ENOUGH into this to know who's really PULLING THE STRINGS, or let alone WHO MIGHT DO WHAT.

I was merely trying to move the discussion towards the actual EVIDENCE of this proposal, which is what you REQUESTED.

I'm neither for this proposal nor against it at this point, preferring a system where college football teams TRANSCEND their conference affiliations and form a FOR FOOTBALL ONLY LEAGUE where EVERY TEAM IS AN INDPENDENT MEMBER of a league to which ALL ELIGIBLE TEAMS (criteria TBD) BELONG.

Under that scheme, I would then implement a playoff structure based on some model used in PROFESSIONAL SPORTS.

To me, this is MUCH LESS about ND's INDEPENDENCE and more about a MORE COHERENT STRUCTURE for CFB.

In fact, given that ND must play FIVE ACC TEAMS every year, how hasn't it LOST ITS INDEPENDENCE already? Five games vs. the eight that "OFFICIAL" members of the ACC play is, to me, a DIFFERENCE WITHOUT A DISTINCTION.

 

[4-4-3]

Think about the concept of the Big Ten and the SEC getting four automatic bids, with the ACC and the big 12 getting two automatic bids.

That can reward mediocrity and it should be rejected on principle.

A team could have a 7-6 record and get an automatic bid.

The 14 best teams should be given bids irrespective of the conference they come from

If the ACC and the big 12 didn’t have a team ranked in the top 14, why should they get automatic bid

Why should any team not ranked for the top 14 or 20 get an automatic bid?

I think most CFB playoff schemes have had FLAWS. And in some cases, SERIOUS ONES.

This is why I prefer moving to an entirely new FORMAT that would first require TOTAL CFB REALIGNMENT on a BALANCED REGIONAL BASIS.

We'll see if something like that EVER HAPPENS.

In the meantime, I'll LIVE WITH WHATEVER COMES ALONG.

If ND can remain at the HIGHEST LEVEL of competitiveness, it should MOST YEARS be able to QUALIFY.

 

[NDinNJ]

I don’t see the Committee granting automatic buys to those conference champions, but one never knows.

If I was a Committee member, I’d be more concerned about the survival of the committee versus the Big Ten and the SEC usurping that role.

The committee no longer controls the playoff format. After the 2025 season, The Big10 and SEC have full control of the playoff format.

 

[sjb75]

The committee no longer controls the playoff format. After the 2025 season, The Big10 and SEC have full control of the playoff format.

They have the bulk of the control, not full. And I have full confidence in Pete Bevacqua going forward.

 

[tbonesays]

What do you mean a ND clause, I just explained what the ND exception is, at least according to my understanding of this proposal. A lone at large bid, that wouldn't even come with automatic qualification. ND would have to play in, I believe on CCG weekend, and they'd have to qualify for the play-in game. So yes, if you mean that ND in this particular format wouldn't be locked out altogether than yes that's true. But it would be hardly ideal. Couldn't be much worse.

ratings drive the playoffs. MONEY DRIVES THE PLAYOFFS. Nothing else matters. Which means the controlling powers will never leave out a team that will get ratings and a winning Notre Dame team gets those. The attention Notre Dame attracts.

So there are no plausible ways we get left out as long as we have the season record

morons that claim otherwise are too stupid to get around corners and through open doors

Yeah, ND will lose post season access is this trope that gets tossed around by talking head mouthpieces. It has never happened for obvious reasons.

 

[Patrish]

The committee no longer controls the playoff format. After the 2025 season, The Big10 and SEC have full control of the playoff format.

It certainly starting to look that way

 

[savvyandsassier]

Yeah, ND will lose post season access is this trope that gets tossed around by talking head mouthpieces. It has never happened for obvious reasons.

Well you are in a state of total denial. This is exactly what it looks like. Or more like haughty, evasive contempt, I suppose, for this unsurprising eventuality that appears to finally be coming to pass. ND has not lost post season access. They can still eke out a spot. The problem is, as an independent, it is structurally difficult, if you will, for ND to enjoy the same 'access', as a comparable program like Mich or tOSU. There is no consideration for nonaligned, free-floating programs, not out of resentment or animus, but just because there isn't. If it wasn't for the invention of the 'at large' bid, which was merely an expedient to help expand the men's basketball tournament, there would be no mechanism at all by which ND could get into a playoff field.

So ND's best hope would be the abandonment of the 'access' model. They should use their feared financial might to scuttle the whole thing.

 

[savvyandsassier]

I haven't seen anything about 14 team playoff, only a 16 team format, so your scenario is not worth concern. No need to panic joining a conference anytime soon.

Well the big showdown is playing itself out as we speak. You have the 14 team or 16 team 'access' model with multiple guaranteed conference autobids, supported by the two titans the Big Ten and SEC. And that's where the 14 team number would come in. And then the 5/11 proposal, which is being supported by the ACC and the Big 12, even though I'm not really sure why they prefer it so much, other than maybe the personal insult to the leagues as distinctly, almost formally inferior to the big two, even though a guarantee of two bids is actually not bad at all for them. But they still don't like being slapped in the face.

The one program of course for whom adoption of the 5-11 model could be almost existential is ND. I prefer the access model, just as a CFB fan, as my loathing for the committee is pretty profound. But if I were declared tyrant of the CFB playoff's future, and I alone decided, I would bite the bullet and go with the 5-11 version, which is basically just the NCAA BB tournament, sans the opening weekend, which is perfectly serviceable enough. And naturally, ND's qualification worries are over. So presumably, ND's representatives are pulling out every stop, and throwing every last pound of weight they have around to make sure that's what gets adopted.

 

[NIN Irish]

Well the big showdown is playing itself out as we speak. You have the 14 team or 16 team 'access' model with multiple guaranteed conference autobids, supported by the two titans the Big Ten and SEC. And that's where the 14 team number would come in. And then the 5/11 proposal, which is being supported by the ACC and the Big 12, even though I'm not really sure why they prefer it so much, other than maybe the personal insult to the leagues as distinctly, almost formally inferior to the big two, even though a guarantee of two bids is actually not bad at all for them. But they still don't like being slapped in the face.

The one program of course for whom adoption of the 5-11 model could be almost existential is ND. I prefer the access model, just as a CFB fan, as my loathing for the committee is pretty profound. But if I were declared tyrant of the CFB playoff's future, and I alone decided, I would bite the bullet and go with the 5-11 version, which is basically just the NCAA BB tournament, sans the opening weekend, which is perfectly serviceable enough. And naturally, ND's qualification worries are over. So presumably, ND's representatives are pulling out every stop, and throwing every last pound of weight they have around to make sure that's what gets adopted.

No worries going to 14, 16 is where it's going.