ND #12 in the final AP Poll

[NDgreatestofalltime!]

they finished just outside the top ten behind #10 Minnesota and #11 Wisconsin.

I think an 11-2 ND should’ve finished higher than a 10-4 Wisconsin team but oh well. ND will have its shot at the Badgers next year.

 

[BGI User 1596]

they finished just outside the top ten behind #10 Minnesota and #11 Wisconsin.

I think an 11-2 ND should’ve finished higher than a 10-4 Wisconsin team but oh well. ND will have its shot at the Badgers next year.

Wow ... Fleck in top ten .....and at Minnesota. Must be the F/+.

 

[chitown sot]

they finished just outside the top ten behind #10 Minnesota and #11 Wisconsin.

I think an 11-2 ND should’ve finished higher than a 10-4 Wisconsin team but oh well. ND will have its shot at the Badgers next year.

Who gives a rats a$$ if ND is #11 or #12, makes absolutely no difference. Still top 8 and moving up according to golson.......NOT

 

[BGI User 1596]

Who gives a rats a$$ if ND is #11 or #12, makes absolutely no difference. Still top 8 and moving up according to golson.......NOT

The F/+ has ND in top 8!

 

[Ara64]

I still think ND deserves a top 10 spot.

 

[d1042]

all the bickering aside , a very good year.

 

[shooter1977]

Wisconsin went 4-4 in their last eight games. This included a 31 point loss to Ohio State and a loss to Illinois. If ND had similar results, guessing they'd be ranked significantly lower, if at all.

 

[Catholicfan95]

Just about where I thought we would be. It's a great sign of a healthy program when you can be upset with 11-2, excited for the future of this team!

 

[chaseball]

Here are the final F/+ rankings (they haven't been updated after the national title game yet)

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/fplus/2019

ND is #12 in F/+

 

[deadprez3]

Just about where I thought we would be. It's a great sign of a healthy program when you can be upset with 11-2, excited for the future of this team!

In a vacuum, I am elated that KeLLLLy managed to go 10**-2 instead of his customary 8-4. And everyone else should be too.

With that said, I also realize that the program has the easily reachable potential of national champions under the appropriate leadership.

Also notably, no program can endure a recent loss such as 2019 Michigan and hope to proclaim health as it is a symptom of a much greater festering disease for which it is plagued. Especially when one has noted similar symptoms in the years prior.

** win total includes two non P5 schools subbed in for historical B10 opponents and shall be denoted as such for comparison purposes

 

[NDSMC78]

In a vacuum, I am elated that KeLLLLy managed to go 10**-2 instead of his customary 8-4. And everyone else should be too.

Learn some basic math. ND is 33-6 over the past three seasons. That translates to 11-2.

 

[Catholicfan95]

In a vacuum, I am elated that KeLLLLy managed to go 10**-2 instead of his customary 8-4. And everyone else should be too.

With that said, I also realize that the program has the easily reachable potential of national champions under the appropriate leadership.

Also notably, no program can endure a recent loss such as 2019 Michigan and hope to proclaim health as it is a symptom of a much greater festering disease for which it is plagued. Especially when one has noted similar symptoms in the years prior.

** win total includes two non P5 schools subbed in for historical B10 opponents and shall be denoted as such for comparison purposes

Still, I remain excited for the future of this team.

 

[chitown sot]

Learn some basic math. ND is 33-6 over the past three seasons. That translates to 11-2.

Of the 33 which were big wins against excellent opponents?

 

[Toby Smart]

Just about where I thought we would be. It's a great sign of a healthy program when you can be upset with 11-2, excited for the future of this team!

It tells me the "voters" have little respect for BK and the Irtish program. Our student-athletes deserve better. I love our guys. The way they responded after Michigan was inspiring as they could have easily cashed it in. Guys like Finke and Jones Jr played hard and never gave up. None of them did. Maybe Michigan, Miami, Clemson, and Bama games still hold water for these "voters". Just thinking out loud.

 

[chitown sot]

all the bickering aside , a very good year.

This is just pathetic. 11-2 with a bad loss to mediocre Michigan and a win against a $hitty big 12 average at best opponent in the tent bowl is hardly my idea of a very good season. It should be an average season to the standards of ND administration/fans. I get the loss to GA considering BK hasn't beaten a top dog yet in 10 years, but the no show inexcusable loss to Michigan was sorry indeed. Sadly this is the new standards to the BK apologists.

 

[Catholicfan95]

It tells me the "voters" have little respect for BK and the Irtish program. Our student-athletes deserve better. I love our guys. The way they responded after Michigan was inspiring as they could have easily cashed it in. Guys like Finke and Jones Jr played hard and never gave up. None of them did. Maybe Michigan, Miami, Clemson, and Bama games still hold water for these "voters". Just thinking out loud.

They don't. We deserve to be ranked 10-12. Beat top 25s not top 10s. It's where we belong, but as I've tried to convey to posters on here we need year after year of 10+ wins and I really don't care what lame excuse people give about soft schedules, every top team in football had a soft schedule (aside from LSU). Keep building

 

[twalsh]

It tells me the "voters" have little respect for BK and the Irtish program.

I think it tells you that the gravity of the Michigan loss put us out of sight and out of mind and forgotten, and we never got back into the minds of the voters. Should we be ahead of some of the teams ranked higher than us? Obviously. But in the end it's not worth lamenting over. Just beat Navy.

 

[Catholicfan95]

This is just pathetic. 11-2 with a bad loss to mediocre Michigan and a win against a $hitty big 12 average at best opponent in the tent bowl is hardly my idea of a very good season. It should be an average season to the standards of ND administration/fans. I get the loss to GA considering BK hasn't beaten a top dog yet in 10 years, but the no show inexcusable loss to Michigan was sorry indeed. Sadly this is the new standards to the BK apologists.

So you had this team 12-0 or 11-1 pre season? Good for you. Most of everyone with the ability to fairly judge talent had us 10-3 or 11-2. Vegas had our win ov/ou at 8.5 pre season. Interesting take on it being a pathetic year.

 

[chitown sot]

So you had this team 12-0 or 11-1 pre season? Good for you. Most of everyone with the ability to fairly judge talent had us 10-3 or 11-2. Vegas had our win ov/ou at 8.5 pre season. Interesting take on it being a pathetic year.

I see reading comprehension is not one of your strong points. Never said it was a pathetic year, I said it was an average year for what SHOULD be ND standards. The schedule was weak and the record should have been 11-1 period. Quit settling for less.

 

[deadprez3]

Learn some basic math. ND is 33-6 over the past three seasons. That translates to 11-2.

33**-6

Five non historical opponents over three years roughly translates to 2 additional wins per year which one can obviously see as the genesis for his movement away from the traditional 8-4 record he typically had attained prior to the watering down of the schedule.

Remember, all figures need to be put into context. That's why we shall be including the asterisk and accompanying notation next to all displays of his W/L record since the advent of the watered down schedules that were demanded by KeLLLLy.


** these wins include non traditional opponents 2017 Temple, 2017 Miami OH, 2018 Ball St, 2019 New Mexico, 2019 Bowling Green and must be noted for historical comparability

 

[deadprez3]

Of the 33 which were big wins against excellent opponents?

ZERO, ZIP, NONE, NADDA

 

[Catholicfan95]

I see reading comprehension is not one of your strong points. Never said it was a pathetic year, I said it was an average year for what SHOULD be ND standards. The schedule was weak and the record should have been 11-1 period. Quit settling for less.

I'm not settling for anything, and maybe communication is not your strong point either big guy lol.

"This is pathetic" in response to a poster saying all bickering aside it was a good year. Then you go into detail about this season and how, in your viewpoint, it was sub par, losing to the only 2 good teams we played further icing the cake to your point it was pathetic. I think you were clear on that until I called you out for it. Am I missing something?

 

[mirer03]

Here are the final F/+ rankings (they haven't been updated after the national title game yet)

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/fplus/2019

ND is #12 in F/+

No one cares

 

[deadprez3]

It tells me the "voters" have little respect for BK

Agreed. He is not held in high esteem by the football community. That is pretty common knowledge.

 

[Catholicfan95]

33**-6

Five non historical opponents over three years roughly translates to 2 additional wins per year which one can obviously see as the genesis for his movement away from the traditional 8-4 record he typically had attained prior to the watering down of the schedule.

Remember, all figures need to be put into context. That's why we shall be including the asterisk and accompanying notation next to all displays of his W/L record since the advent of the watered down schedules that were demanded by KeLLLLy.


** these wins include non traditional opponents 2017 Temple, 2017 Miami OH, 2018 Ball St, 2019 New Mexico, 2019 Bowling Green and must be noted for historical comparability

I think you would be shocked to learn that almost every school in the country plays a weaker schedule now. LSU this year is how football should be done, 7 wins over top 15 opponents, amazing.

Clemson plays a poop schedule too ya know. It's across the board brother not just ND.

 

[Get Nasty]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Most teams played 13 or 14 games this year. ND showed up for 12. Skipping a game get you what you deserve. You show up for the UM game and win you're in the CFP, show up and lose a tough fought game and you're top 6 right now with a new years 6 bowl win.

 

[stu4don]

Total bullshit. Wisconsin with 4 loses! Oklahoma who looked like a JV team vs. LSU. Three bad quarters of football and we're still being punished. Wisc. gets beat by ILL. Sorry but we've become the Rodney Dangerfield of college football.

I believe we beat 5 or 6 teams ranked ahead of us at the end of the year.

Wisconsin, Minnesota, Penn State, Florida, Oklahoma, even Oregon -- hell, we lost to #4 Georgia on the last f-ing series at their place!

I really hope this lights a fire in these coaches and players!

 

[chitown sot]

I'm not settling for anything, and maybe communication is not your strong point either big guy lol.

"This is pathetic" in response to a poster saying all bickering aside it was a good year. Then you go into detail about this season and how, in your viewpoint, it was sub par, losing to the only 2 good teams we played further icing the cake to your point it was pathetic. I think you were clear on that until I called you out for it. Am I missing something?

Saying this was a very good year is pathetic. What you are missing is the fact that you and every other BK apologist should raise your standards for ND football. Quit settling for less

 

[chitown sot]

Total bullshit. Wisconsin with 4 loses! Oklahoma who looked like a JV team vs. LSU. Three bad quarters of football and we're still being punished. Wisc. gets beat by ILL. Sorry but we've become the Rodney Dangerfield of college football.

I believe we beat 5 or 6 teams ranked ahead of us at the end of the year.

Wisconsin, Minnesota, Penn State, Florida, Oklahoma, even Oregon -- hell, we lost to #4 Georgia on the last f-ing series at their place!

I really hope this lights a fire in these coaches and players!

Unfortunately it won't. NDs higher ups and BK are perfectly content with 10-3, 11-2 seasons.

 

[Get Nasty]

Total bullshit. Wisconsin with 4 loses! Oklahoma who looked like a JV team vs. LSU. Three bad quarters of football and we're still being punished. Wisc. gets beat by ILL. Sorry but we've become the Rodney Dangerfield of college football.

I believe we beat 5 or 6 teams ranked ahead of us at the end of the year.

Wisconsin, Minnesota, Penn State, Florida, Oklahoma, even Oregon -- hell, we lost to #4 Georgia on the last f-ing series at their place!

I really hope this lights a fire in these coaches and players!

I think ND was better at the end of the year than everyone other than LSU, OSU, and Clemson. But a marquis game in the regular season ND flat out didn't even show up and quit. Wish it wasn't true. ND should be ranked higher but who did ND beat this year? Wisconsin crushed the same UM team we didn't show up vs.

ND Beat one team in the final AP top 25, and that was Navy. It is what it is.

 

[Catholicfan95]

Saying this was a very good year is pathetic. What you are missing is the fact that you and every other BK apologist should raise your standards for ND football. Quit settling for less

You're literally contradicting yourself lol. So you never said it was a pathetic year, but saying it was a very good year is pathetic. The storyline here is the same as normal, your opinion of an 11-2 season is your own, telling someone it's pathetic to claim it a very good makes no sense.

See your operating on the notion that we have low standards, which is wrong. I guess I'm not allowed, in your eyes, to acknowledge the great successes over the course of an 11 win year and call it a very good year? I disagree. While we should have played better in 2 games it's far from pathetic to call this year very good.

 

[deadprez3]

I think you would be shocked to learn that almost every school in the country plays a weaker schedule now. LSU this year is how football should be done, 7 wins over top 15 opponents, amazing.

Clemson plays a poop schedule too ya know. It's across the board brother not just ND.

I am doing it in comparison to historical ND schedules for comparability purposes. It helps paint a more accurate and true picture as to the reasons for this recent "success".

 

[Catholicfan95]

I am doing it in comparison to historical ND schedules for comparability purposes. It helps paint a more accurate and true picture as to the reasons for this recent "success".

Okay, and Purdue, Michigan State, Pitt and Boston College every year are better than what we're doing now? Double edged sword.

I would rather player our traditional rivals though.

 

[twalsh]

Saying this was a very good year is pathetic. What you are missing is the fact that you and every other BK apologist should raise your standards for ND football. Quit settling for less

The season ended with one undefeated FBS team, and two with one loss. So you can spin your silliness however you want, but two losses is a very good season. By any reasonable standard.

 

[d1042]

This is just pathetic. 11-2 with a bad loss to mediocre Michigan and a win against a $hitty big 12 average at best opponent in the tent bowl is hardly my idea of a very good season. It should be an average season to the standards of ND administration/fans. I get the loss to GA considering BK hasn't beaten a top dog yet in 10 years, but the no show inexcusable loss to Michigan was sorry indeed. Sadly this is the new standards to the BK apologists.

never been called that before!

 

[twalsh]

I am doing it in comparison to historical ND schedules for comparability purposes. It helps paint a more accurate and true picture as to the reasons for this recent "success".

You just need to compare SOS ratings from year to year. Even going only back to the Holtz era, there were many doormats that were what is currently known as FBS teams. But playing those teams back then is no different than playing New Mexico or Western Michigan now. They are pretty much automatic wins. SOS ratings will give you a more meaningful comparison than eyeballing old schedules.

 

[deadprez3]

Still, I remain excited for the future of this team.

Yes, I realize this to be your nature.

Everyone operates at different extents within their logical and emotional minds. Neither is better or worse. It just is one's natural state.

However, one state is more advantageous for accumulating data and forming accurate and logical (please mind the redundancy) conclusions on matters such as football coaches.

As you can see, even the word "excited" conveys one's emotions on the subject as opposed to their logic.

Again, I want to reiterate one state is not inherently superior to the other so as not to set you off emotionally and have our line of discourse once again derail. I speak fondly of your naive enthusiasm and at times wish my mind were of a similar natural state.

With that said, you may wish to contemplate the information that is procured by the more logical amongst us for it might help spare you future disappointment and internal strife.

I offer my insights only as a service to others and wish nobody harm in the matter.

 

[Catholicfan95]

Yes, I realize this to be your nature.

Everyone operates at different extents within their logical and emotional minds. Neither is better or worse. It just is one's natural state.

However, one state is more advantageous for accumulating data and forming accurate and logical (please mind the redundancy) conclusions on matters such as football coaches.

As you can see, even the word "excited" conveys one's emotions on the subject as opposed to their logic.

Again, I want to reiterate one state is not inherently superior to the other so as not to set you off emotionally and have our line of discourse once again derail. I speak fondly of your naive enthusiasm and at times wish my mind were of a similar natural state.

With that said, you may wish to contemplate the information that is procured by the more logical amongst us for it might help spare you future disappointment and internal strife.

I offer my insights only as a service to others and wish nobody harm in the matter.

Can you find it in yourself to stop lecturing me like this? I don't see why it bothers you so much that I have a different viewpoint, or why you have to condensed like you do.

You were doing really well today until now. I thought for a second that the absolutely brutal smack down you got on the Rock n Toll thread did some good, and trust me it was one of the best beat downs I've ever seen on here, you were rendered to a pink mist courtesy of the Koolaid man. I mean he buried you, embarrassed you and completely exposed you, and yet you still behave like this. Just sad really

 

[deadprez3]

You just need to compare SOS ratings from year to year. Even going only back to the Holtz era, there were many doormats that were what is currently known as FBS teams. But playing those teams back then is no different than playing New Mexico or Western Michigan now. They are pretty much automatic wins. SOS ratings will give you a more meaningful comparison than eyeballing old schedules.

Strength of schedule measures have various shortcomings and lack much nuance.

They are but a data point but not meant as the sole evaluation of a schedule.

To rely merely on strength of schedule would be to not do the matter at hand justice.

Fortunately, I have included the notation that gets to the matter more clearly and appropriately defined than a mere strength of schedule data point.

So I would have to disagree with your assertion that one "just need to". I have never found myself to think I "just need to" on any of my analyses for it would result in inaccurate conclusions--something I am clearly not fond of.

 

[Kelso86]

In the article on the home page (ND Finishes 12th) -- a little comedy --

"Two likely factors contributed to this lack of movement.

One, it didn’t help that three of the other 11-2 teams (Alabama, Penn State and Michigan) all defeated the Wolverines."

You know ND got no love when the Wolverines can beat themselves and finish 11-2! lol If you are going to post an article (on the home page), at least proof read it prior to posting! lol