Not sure what defines "great". Or "nowhere near".
Wiki:
Ismail was going to be selected as the first overall pick in the 1991 NFL Draft by the Dallas Cowboys, until he decided to sign
Michael Floyd
- Thread starter IrishInOntario
- Start date
Not sure what defines "great". Or "nowhere near".
Wiki:
Ismail was going to be selected as the first overall pick in the 1991 NFL Draft by the Dallas Cowboys, until he decided to sign
Thanks for the correction. Brain fart on my behalf. You are correct, Floyd 13th by Arizona. For some reason, I had incorrectly remembered the Cardinals picking 9th that year.
he was not a great receiver. he was a great offensive weapon who could go the distance every time he touched the ball. fundamentally as a receiver he was never known for his route running or his hands. second to none as a returner.
You're certainly entitled to an opinion.
But I think he was a great receiver. And in 91 the GM in Dallas thought he was a great receiver. I'm sure a few others also. Enough to take him number one overall.
The GM's thought Rocket was the number one receiver. So I'm going to agree with them that he was, if not a great receiver, certainly a number one overall draft pick receiver. Which is a pretty great receiver in my opinion.
Go Irish!
But I think he was a great receiver. And in 91 the GM in Dallas thought he was a great receiver. I'm sure a few others also. Enough to take him number one overall.
The GM's thought Rocket was the number one receiver. So I'm going to agree with them that he was, if not a great receiver, certainly a number one overall draft pick receiver. Which is a pretty great receiver in my opinion.
Go Irish!
how do we know they thought he was a "great " receiver ? you do understand that really good players can impact a game in more than one way right ?
It's tough to compare different eras and players. Factoids:
In Rocket’s FR year ’88 he led the team in receiving yards 331 to Watter’s 286
In his SO year he led the team in receiving yards 535, Brown 204, Watters 196
In his JR year he led the team in receiving yards 699, Smith 229, Brown 220
He holds the ND record for pass reception yards per catch in a career with 22.0 (71 for 1565)
Floyd’s ND career comprised 271 catches 3686 yards 13.6 average
Rocket’s ND career 71 catches 1565 yards 22 average.
Rocket’s awards:
· ConsensusAll-American(1990)
· Walter Camp Award(1990)
· Heisman TrophyRunner-Up (1990)
· Frank M. Gibson Trophy(1991)
· Grey Cup champion(79th)
· Grey Cup MVP(1991)
· CFL All-Star (1991)
PS I would take Rocket over Floyd for the same reason I would take Tim Brown over Floyd...
agreed as ismail and brown brought much more to the table than floyd. my point was that had ismail not been used in other various ways as he was i doubt he gets any of those awards strictly as a receiver.
You're joking, right? He was to be picked number one overall in the NFL draft. I'm not a smart guy at all but when the best guys in the business come to the same decision about a player to pick him above all other players eligible for the draft, that means they think he is, if not great, then pretty darn good. And they are willing to bet millions of dollars on it. So I defer to them and their opinion. If they are willing to bet number one money on him, they think he is going to be great.
It's just my opinion, but any discussion of great ND receivers must include Rocket Ismail.
had he not been a kick returner do you believe his receiving skills alone would have had him in that spot ? i'm talking STRICTLY a receivers skill set.
You're saying he can't be considered a great receiver because he was such a great returner? He was pretty great anywhere he lined up. It's like you're saying he cannot be considered a great receiver because he was too versatile.
Again, he was the number one overall pick in the NFL as a WR. How many other ND WR's in NFL history were number one overall picks?
Hint: not a guy named Floyd. (who I agree was a great receiver.)
Again, he was the number one overall pick in the NFL as a WR. How many other ND WR's in NFL history were number one overall picks?
Hint: not a guy named Floyd. (who I agree was a great receiver.)
really ? he was a 4th round pick (100 overall ) in 1991. better check your memory again. ismails greatest asset was his speed and vision. he was an average route runner and had average hands. once he had the ball he was dynamite. i can easily list at least 10 fundamentally better nd wide receivers. again, i'm not knocking one of the most explosive offensive players in modern history. i'm just pointing out from a strictly wide receiver skill set he was not great. not sure why that is so hard to comprehend. the guy had 71 CAREER receptions. that alone should tell you he was not a primary receiver.
Raghib Ismail a better college WIDE RECEIVER than Michael Floyd? Give me a break...
Rocket Ismail career receiving totals at ND...
71 receptions
1565 yards
4 TD's
Michael Floyd career receiving totals at ND...
271 receptions
3686 yards
37 TD's
Come on... Rocket was an incredible all purpose player, but we're talking about wide receivers here. Ismail's production the only tangible comparison of players isn't even in the same realm as Floyd's relative to statistics accumulated by wide receivers... Even when you factor in the the different styles of offense they played in, Floyd had 33!! More receiving touchdowns than Ismail, on 200 more receptions (triple Ismails) and nearly 2.5x more yards... It's not even close about who the better receiver was at Notre Dame... Who had a greater overall impact on his team when you factor in the various roles that Ismail filled? Now that's a totally different question, but Ismail was nowhere near Floyd in terms of accomplishment at WR.
Rocket Ismail career receiving totals at ND...
71 receptions
1565 yards
4 TD's
Michael Floyd career receiving totals at ND...
271 receptions
3686 yards
37 TD's
Come on... Rocket was an incredible all purpose player, but we're talking about wide receivers here. Ismail's production the only tangible comparison of players isn't even in the same realm as Floyd's relative to statistics accumulated by wide receivers... Even when you factor in the the different styles of offense they played in, Floyd had 33!! More receiving touchdowns than Ismail, on 200 more receptions (triple Ismails) and nearly 2.5x more yards... It's not even close about who the better receiver was at Notre Dame... Who had a greater overall impact on his team when you factor in the various roles that Ismail filled? Now that's a totally different question, but Ismail was nowhere near Floyd in terms of accomplishment at WR.
For the record, if I could insert any players from the modern era of ND football into Brian Kelly's offense, you would get personnel from a number of eras... My offense would look like this (again, keeping mind that we'd be running Brian Kelly's re-option, spread).
QB: Tony Rice
RB: Jerome Bettis
WR (X): Tim Brown
WR (W): Michael Floyd
WR (Z): Golden Tate
TE: Tyler Eifert
LT: Andy Heck
LG: Aaron Taylor
C: Jeff Faine
RG: Zack Martin
Rat: Ronnie Stanley
Key substitutes
QB: Joe Montana
RB: Autrey Denson
APB: Rocket Ismail
APB: Theo Riddick
WR (X): Will Fuller
WR (W): Jeff Samardzija
WR (Z): Derrick Mayes
TE: Dave Casper
OL: Mike Gandy
OL: Ryan Harris
QB: Tony Rice
RB: Jerome Bettis
WR (X): Tim Brown
WR (W): Michael Floyd
WR (Z): Golden Tate
TE: Tyler Eifert
LT: Andy Heck
LG: Aaron Taylor
C: Jeff Faine
RG: Zack Martin
Rat: Ronnie Stanley
Key substitutes
QB: Joe Montana
RB: Autrey Denson
APB: Rocket Ismail
APB: Theo Riddick
WR (X): Will Fuller
WR (W): Jeff Samardzija
WR (Z): Derrick Mayes
TE: Dave Casper
OL: Mike Gandy
OL: Ryan Harris
My memory isn't an issue. You have trouble reading. From the wiki:
Ismail was going to be selected as the first overall pick in the 1991 NFL Draft by the Dallas Cowboys, until he decided to sign with the Toronto Argonauts.
Now, was he as good as Brown or Floyd or Tate or what would his production be in different generations? I don't know. But any discussion of the great WR's in ND history includes the Rocket. As IIO suggest in his post. Rocket is there among the great WR's. As he should be.
While you guys are at it could you clear up for me whether Michael Spinks was a better prizefight than Max Baer?[not Jethro from the Beverly Hillbillys , his father]
Do you think Percy Harvin is/was a great receiver? David Palmer? They are the closest things I've seen to Rocket as far as just being amazing playmakers who can go to the end zone on every touch from every part of the field. But I wouldn't call either of them great receivers.
Many people forget that Rocket played tailback in one of the Colorado Orange Bowl games and went for over 100 yds. Kid was amazing.
Montana was a very good college QB with a flair for the dramatic, and the ability to look awful. See the 1978 Cotton Bowl and the first three quarters of the 1979 Cotton Bowl as examples of that. He was an amazing off-the-charts HOF pro quarterback.
They were all great.
Cheers to the great ones. And for the great times they gave us watching them.
What you believe may have happened as opposed to what ACTUALLY happened are two totally different things.
IIO are you a victim of recency bias? Perhaps you should define "Modern" for us Experienced fans!
Rocket turned pro after his junior year. The Cowboys were in heavy negotiations with him and would not select him # 1 unless he was signed. They ended up choosing Russel Maryland after not agreeing to Raghib's terms. The Argonauts were offering 18+ million guaranteed.... Here are some details:
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...owboys-owner-jerry-jones-eugene-lockhart-pick
Rocket Close To Signing With Cfl
NEW YORK — Notre Dame`s Raghib ``Rocket`` Ismail is on the verge of signing a four-year contract with the Canadian Football League`s Toronto Argonauts worth a guaranteed $18.2 million as the deadline approaches for the Dallas Cowboys to make the first pick in Sunday`s NFL draft.
The Cowboys, who will not take Ismail unless he has agreed to terms, apparently will select Miami defensive tackle Russell Maryland with the first pick if they are unable to sign Ismail.
The Cowboys and Ismail`s agents planned to negotiate all Saturday night and into Sunday morning trying to work out a deal.
According to sources, Ismail wants a five-year, $14.5 million contract from Dallas with 50 percent of the money deferred. The sources said the Toronto offer is for $18.2 million guaranteed over four years, with annual salaries of $3.5 million plus other bonuses, which reportedly could amount to about $4 million.
Ismail also would be given 10 percent of the team owned by Bruce McNall, Wayne Gretzky and John Candy upon retirement, and the value of the deal could eventually reach $26.2 million.
On Friday, Dallas traded the 11th and 41st picks to New England for the No. 1 spot. In addition, by the middle of the week, New England will select three Dallas players from a list of five: linebackers Eugene Lockhart, David Howard and Willis Crockett and cornerbacks Ron Francis and Robert Williams. The Patriots bailed out of the Rocket Derby when their offer of $1.7 million a year was rejected.
Cowboys owner Jerry Jones exchanged proposals Saturday with the Team Rocket management group headed by Ed Abram of Oakland, Calif.
``We received the offer, and it was not very satisfactory,`` Jones said.
``We are very far apart. We traded for the No. 1 pick, not an individual. We will be very happy with our first pick.``
If Ismail has not signed with the Cowboys or Argonauts before the draft, he could fall back in the first round. Dallas has a history of overpaying, and teams figure to be scared off by the Cowboys` inability to sign him.
Johnson would be comfortable taking Maryland, a player he recruited at Miami.
There is an outside shot that Dallas could even turn around and trade the No. 1 pick.
If Ismail signs with the Argonauts before the draft, it will be interesting to see which NFL team takes him-and how high. A team drafting a player who signs with another league retains his rights for four years.
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
Rocket was the greatest Irish player of the modern era. I still remember the Punt return TD he had against Colorado in the Orange bowl that got called back due to the phantom clip. He gave a thumbs up to the Irish bench before the punt and yelled I got this. What confidence ! He knew the only way the Irish could win was if he scored a TD and he did it (almost--if not for the clip)!
Check it out my friends !!
Last edited:
Loved Tim Ruddy, but preferred Jeff Faine. Could only take one center for the team and it was a tough choice. Loved Faine's toughness and it's not like he wasn't an elite player. He was drafted with the 21st pick in the first round!
Kinda of skimmed through the discussion and didn't see Eifert mentioned.
His 2012 season might have been one of the best pass catching seasons I've ever seen in an ND uniform.
So many clutch 3rd down catches in traffic ... and just a really nnice blend of blocking inside and possession receiving when lined up outside. Even had some break away speed. I'll never forget Eifert's general productivity that year.
His 2012 season might have been one of the best pass catching seasons I've ever seen in an ND uniform.
So many clutch 3rd down catches in traffic ... and just a really nnice blend of blocking inside and possession receiving when lined up outside. Even had some break away speed. I'll never forget Eifert's general productivity that year.
never thought mike heldt got his just do. as fundamentally sound as you can get.
Saved Bill McCartney from having made the worst most devastating bonehead decision in college football history. Rocket caught the ball around the 10 yd line, which means they could have kicked it out of bounds easily around the 20 yd line. I was sitting at the 40 yd line across from the TV cameras. I saw the flag right when it came out and was totally deflated, didn't even watch the rest of the play. But the stadium was going ballistic, it seemed like nobody saw the flag.
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
I was watching the game on the couch of a girl I had met at an AA meeting that night. I couldn't see the flag until after the Rocket scored.
