Marcus Freeman Is Building A Championship Program

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

Koolaid - solid posts as always. In your opinion, what’s the probability of Freeman building a championship team during his tenure?

Thank you for your kind words, McCallen.

Yes, IMO Freeman will build a championship team at ND. I cannot say with any degree of certainty when that will happen, but I believe it will be soon. I think in 2-3 years we will be playing in the national championship game. I love Freeman's work ethic. I love how he recruits. I love his relationship with the players, and I love how he has reached out and attempted to build a bridge with great ND players from past years. That has been long overdue. I love how he understands the history and traditions of ND. I love how Freeman understands both the challenges and rewards of ND, and how instead of running away from the challenges, he has embraced them. In short, I love how he is building a program.

What Freeman lacks now--and this is certainly a big box to check for the head coach of a major college football program--is game day savvy and sideline coaching experience. He has made some mistakes. Some of them have been bad mistakes. Learning on the job isn't an ideal situation, but I think he is up for the task. He will become better. Of that, I am certain. But we are going to have a few hiccups in the interim. Some see Freeman as the reincarnation of Gerry Faust: a nice man who is in way over his head. But I could not disagree more with that comparison. Freeman is a smart guy, and he is going to be successful at ND.

What I respect about Freeman is that he has accepted responsibility and accountablilty for his mistakes. He knows what he doesn't know. With Brian Kelly, I had the impression that he always believed he was the smartest guy in the room, and the rest of us can just go f*#k off. Kelly was often defiant and even combative when the team lost, and didn't hesitate to throw players under the bus. That won't happen with Freeman. I am not a BK "hater," and acknowledge and appreciate the success he had at ND, but I didn't shed a tear when he decided to move on.

So I believe we must exercise some patience with Marcus Freeman. Everything has done so far has resonated with me, and he has earned my respect and trust. I think we all owe him our patience and our support. Some will see it differently, but to each his own.

 

[burmafrd1943]

Thank you for your kind words, McCallen.

Yes, IMO Freeman will build a championship team at ND. I cannot say with any degree of certainty when that will happen, but I believe it will be soon. I think in 2-3 years we will be playing in the national championship game. I love Freeman's work ethic. I love how he recruits. I love his relationship with the players, and I love how he has reached out and attempted to build a bridge with great ND players from past years. That has been long overdue. I love how Freeman understands both the challenges and rewards of ND, and instead of running away from the challenges, how he has embraced them. In short, I love how he is building a program.

What Freeman lacks now--and this is certainly a big box to check for the head coach of a major college football program--is game day savvy and sideline coaching experience. He has made some mistakes. Some of them have been bad mistakes. Learning on the job isn't an ideal situation, but I think he is up for the task. He will become better. Of that, I am certain. But we are going to have a few hiccups in the interim. Some see Freeman as the reincarnation of Jerry Faust: a nice man who is in way over his head. But I could not disagree more with that comparison. Freeman is a smart guy, and he is going to be successful at ND.

What I respect about Freeman is that he has accepted responsibility for his mistakes. He knows what he doesn't know. With Brian Kelly, I had the impression that he always believed he was the smartest guy in the room, and the rest of us can go f*#k off. Kelly was often defiant and even combative when the team lost, and didn't hesitate to throw players under the bus. That won't happen with Freeman. I am not a BK "hater," and acknowledge and appreciate the success he had at ND, but I didn't shed a tear when he decided to move on.

So I believe we must exercise some patience with Marcus Freeman. Everything has done so far has resonated with me, and he has earned my respect and trust. I think we all owe him our patience and our support. Some will see it differently, but to each his own.

A lot of smart people fail. That is reality.
Jerry Faust was a smart man.
So was Charlie Weis
Just because you are smart does not mean you will succeed at a certain task.
This is the worst thing about hiring a coach who was clearly NOT READY TO BE A HC.
OJT at this level is VERY RISKY.
I just hope it is growing pains that go away. Basically all we can do is hope.
I do agree with you about BK; thinking he was always the smartest guy in the room
also I do not think he very often really believed he had made a mistake
I do not see these problems with Freeman which is very encouraging.
BUT it still does not mean he will take ND to the Mountaintop.

 

[McCallen ND NYC]

Thank you for your kind words, McCallen.

Yes, IMO Freeman will build a championship team at ND. I cannot say with any degree of certainty when that will happen, but I believe it will be soon. I think in 2-3 years we will be playing in the national championship game. I love Freeman's work ethic. I love how he recruits. I love his relationship with the players, and I love how he has reached out and attempted to build a bridge with great ND players from past years. That has been long overdue. I love how he understands the history and traditions of ND. I love how Freeman understands both the challenges and rewards of ND, and how instead of running away from the challenges, he has embraced them. In short, I love how he is building a program.

What Freeman lacks now--and this is certainly a big box to check for the head coach of a major college football program--is game day savvy and sideline coaching experience. He has made some mistakes. Some of them have been bad mistakes. Learning on the job isn't an ideal situation, but I think he is up for the task. He will become better. Of that, I am certain. But we are going to have a few hiccups in the interim. Some see Freeman as the reincarnation of Gerry Faust: a nice man who is in way over his head. But I could not disagree more with that comparison. Freeman is a smart guy, and he is going to be successful at ND.

What I respect about Freeman is that he has accepted responsibility and accountablilty for his mistakes. He knows what he doesn't know. With Brian Kelly, I had the impression that he always believed he was the smartest guy in the room, and the rest of us can just go f*#k off. Kelly was often defiant and even combative when the team lost, and didn't hesitate to throw players under the bus. That won't happen with Freeman. I am not a BK "hater," and acknowledge and appreciate the success he had at ND, but I didn't shed a tear when he decided to move on.

So I believe we must exercise some patience with Marcus Freeman. Everything has done so far has resonated with me, and he has earned my respect and trust. I think we all owe him our patience and our support. Some will see it differently, but to each his own.

I like the optimism and hope you’re right on the prediction!

Freeman is definitely more likable than Kelly. The kids will play harder for him because he genuinely cares about them. I don’t recall Kelly beating any top #10 teams during his first two years.

Kelly was the better CEO. IMO, Kelly passing blame on everyone else is a mgmt style - never blame yourself. It makes one look better and more likely to keep your job. Kelly was more interested in his career than anyone else’s.

The key for Freeman is getting top recruits and assistants in order to win a championship. The team’s inconsistency is concerning, but he’s just getting started. If he and program continue to improve YoY, then he’ll keep his job. Year 2 is looking better than Year 1.

 

[burmafrd1943]

I like the optimism and hope you’re right on the prediction!

Freeman is definitely more likable than Kelly. The kids will play harder for him because he genuinely cares about them. I don’t recall Kelly beating any top #10 teams during his first two years.

Kelly was the better CEO. IMO, Kelly passing blame on everyone else is a mgmt style - never blame yourself. It makes one look better and more likely to keep your job. Kelly was more interested in his career than anyone else’s.

The key for Freeman is getting top recruits and assistants in order to win a championship. The team’s inconsistency is concerning, but he’s just getting started. If he and program continue to improve YoY, then he’ll keep his job. Year 2 is looking better than Year 1.

I believe the talent will come. As regards the staff that is another problem with a young HC; he does not have the contacts or the cred to attract the best assistants.
AND he will HAVE TO do better as a game day coach. Those horrible mistakes in the Louisville game cannot continue to happen.

 

[McCallen ND NYC]

I believe the talent will come. As regards the staff that is another problem with a young HC; he does not have the contacts or the cred to attract the best assistants.
AND he will HAVE TO do better as a game day coach. Those horrible mistakes in the Louisville game cannot continue to happen.

Agreed. The recruiting seems to be improving. Golden was a good hire. OC’s turning down the ND job wasn’t a good sign. HC is still learning but I’m hopeful he gets better quickly. Every program has its challenges.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

I like the optimism and hope you’re right on the prediction!

Freeman is definitely more likable than Kelly. The kids will play harder for him because he genuinely cares about them. I don’t recall Kelly beating any top #10 teams during his first two years.

Kelly was the better CEO. IMO, Kelly passing blame on everyone else is a mgmt style - never blame yourself. It makes one look better and more likely to keep your job. Kelly was more interested in his career than anyone else’s.

The key for Freeman is getting top recruits and assistants in order to win a championship. The team’s inconsistency is concerning, but he’s just getting started. If he and program continue to improve YoY, then he’ll keep his job. Year 2 is looking better than Year 1.

By nature I am a glass half full guy, so that perhaps explains the optimism.

I think you are correct with your assessment of BK. He was more of a top down, CEO type of head coach. When I served in the military I saw a variety of leadership styles. The screamers got the job done, but out of fear, not respect. The true leaders were ones that were team builders, and got subordinates to perform because they believed in the leader's mission and vision and knew the leader had their best interests at heart. That doesn't mean you have to be soft; by all accounts Lou Holtz could be tough as nails, but when you listen to his former players talk about Lou, it seems clear they loved and respected him. That was because Lou tried to get them to be the best player and person they could be. In contrast, I do not recall any of Brian Kelly's former players speaking fondly of him. Maybe that has happened and I just wasn't paying attention, but I think that speaks to Kelly's leadership style.

I agree that MF will need to continue to recruit well and surround himself with able assistant coaches. The latter is especially important while MF is learning on the fly. Al Golden has done a great job as DC. Some of the other assistants have proven themselves very capable, too. The jury is out on a few others. MF will need to get a top-rate strength and conditioning coach on board. The departure of Balis is still very puzzling to me.

Freeman has stumbled a few times already, but the beat downs of Clemson last year and USC this year were amazing, and showed great promise. We stayed with OSU twice, and should have won the second time. Kelly did a top-notch job of winning the games ND should have won, and that is no small feat. He should be recognized and applauded for that. But the losses in the big games were troubling, often by large margins, and ultimately are what caused me to conclude he wasn't going to win a NC at ND. While he has work to do, I see more promise with Freeman, and that is why I am bullish on the program.

 

[Patrirish]

A lot of smart people fail. That is reality.
Jerry Faust was a smart man.
So was Charlie Weis
Just because you are smart does not mean you will succeed at a certain task.
This is the worst thing about hiring a coach who was clearly NOT READY TO BE A HC.
OJT at this level is VERY RISKY.
I just hope it is growing pains that go away. Basically all we can do is hope.
I do agree with you about BK; thinking he was always the smartest guy in the room
also I do not think he very often really believed he had made a mistake
I do not see these problems with Freeman which is very encouraging.
BUT it still does not mean he will take ND to the Mountaintop.

👍

 

[Patrirish]

I believe the talent will come. As regards the staff that is another problem with a young HC; he does not have the contacts or the cred to attract the best assistants.
AND he will HAVE TO do better as a game day coach. Those horrible mistakes in the Louisville game cannot continue to happen.

👍👍

 

[theskibro]

I was reading The Athletic this morning and saw an interesting bit from Bruce Feldman, a college football writer I respect, about what MF is doing with the ND football program. Here is what Feldman said:

"14. Last Saturday’s trip to South Bend was a blast. It was just an awesome scene in a very special place. It was actually the first game I’ve seen at Notre Dame since the Bush Push game and the atmosphere was terrific. The school has done a wonderful job with the game day experience. Marcus Freeman has had to learn on the job over the past year-and-a-half and no doubt there have been some rocky moments, but I get the sense he’s building something pretty special there. The Irish have a lot of athletes on both sides of the ball. Can they do what Jim Harbaugh has eventually gotten Michigan to, and elevate this program from very good to great? Maybe. That was the sticking point that the Brian Kelly regime never was able to get past in South Bend. The recruiting and development piece of all that takes a lot of time, as it has in Ann Arbor. I am curious to see where this program goes now that it has some real momentum — and some time to catch its breath.

"The Irish have the No. 8-ranked recruiting class according to 247Sports. It’s led by QB C.J. Carr, the No. 36 overall prospect, and top-50 WR Cam Williams. Notre Dame hasn’t finished higher than No. 9 since 2013 — the year it signed Jaylon Smith."

I know Marcus still has his doubters here, but I am all aboard the Marcus Freeman train. Has he made some mistakes? Most certainly. Will he make more in the future? Probably. But I have a sense of optimism I haven't had for many, many years, and when I read something like this from a writer I believe knows a thing or two about college football, I am bullish on the future. When I see former ND greats like Joe Montana, Tim Brown and Jerome Bettis on the sidelines for a game, as they were this past weekend for the USC game, that tells me that former players sense something special is happening, too. I had my hopes with Brian Kelly, but it became obvious to me after a couple of seasons that he wasn't likely to get the job done. I still had hope, but deep inside I just didn't think--in fact, I knew--it wasn't going to happen. But when I see what Marcus Freeman is doing with the program, I feel differently. If C.J. Carr or Kenny Minchey turn out to be the QBs I think they can be, and we can bring in more guys like Cam Williams at the skill positions, watch out. Have patience my fellow ND fans--a commodity that is often in short supply here--a national championship is going to happen with Marcus Freeman.

Maybe I had too much Koolaid this morning, but that is how I see things.

Carry on.

Kool Aid!!!! I am on your caboose bro

 

[Bob Rodes]

And to be in contention or qualify for the CFP late, you have to avoid bad losses like (Marshall, Stanford & Louisville)

Unless we lose again to Stanford or Wake Forest or whoever, we're improving. Even so, I'd take the Louisville loss over the Marshall or Stanford losses. The Louisville loss is more like the USC loss last year.

So I say you make good points, but still we're improving.

 

[Bob Rodes]

Championship teams do not fall apart in the 4th qtr
Championship HCs do not make multiple dumb mistakes when the game is on the line
Maybe these are just more growing pains and I hope so
BUT just because we blew out one team after getting blown out by another team is no indication of building a championship team

I see a direction, personally. This year's team is better all around than last year's, including coaching overall (I don't want to get into a comparison of Rees and Parker here).

 

[Bob Rodes]

Michigan, OSU and PSU combined have not played as many ranked teams as ND.

I actually looked this up, because of course I did. And you didn't, because of course you didn't.

Over the past 10 years, I count 40 ranked teams for Notre Dame, 40 for Michigan, 49 for OSU, and 36 for PSU.

Liar, liar, pants on fire.

 

[Golson5]

I actually looked this up, because of course I did. And you didn't, because of course you didn't.

Over the past 10 years, I count 40 ranked teams for Notre Dame, 40 for Michigan, 49 for OSU, and 36 for PSU.

Liar, liar, pants on fire.

99% sure he was talking about this year lol

Lot of wasted time four a pretty obvious point

 

[Bob Rodes]

99% sure he was talking about this year lol

Lot of wasted time four [sic] a pretty obvious point

Well, I'm 99% sure that he wasn't. The full quote was "Michigan, OSU and PSU combined have not played as many ranked teams as ND. They have feasted on weaker competition for the last decade."

But even if he was, it still isn't true. This year, ND has played 4 ranked teams, Michigan hasn't played any yet, and OSU and PSU have played two apiece. And if you run this out to the end of the year, ND doesn't play any more ranked teams, and all three of the Big Ten teams play one more. So there's no interpretation of the statement that isn't refuted by evidence.

Funny how many things are obvious that just ain't so. But hey, just because the truth shall set you free doesn't mean it's worth pursuing.

 

[Bob Rodes]

Year 2 is looking better than Year 1.

This is the most important point.

 

[Golson5]

Well, I'm 99% sure that he wasn't. The full quote was "Michigan, OSU and PSU combined have not played as many ranked teams as ND. They have feasted on weaker competition for the last decade."

But even if he was, it still isn't true. This year, ND has played 4 ranked teams, Michigan hasn't played any yet, and OSU and PSU have played two apiece. And if you run this out to the end of the year, ND doesn't play any more ranked teams, and all three of the Big Ten teams play one more. So there's no interpretation of the statement that isn't refuted by evidence.

Funny how many things are obvious that just ain't so. But hey, just because the truth shall set you free doesn't mean it's worth pursuing.

They have feasted on weaker competition is a seperate comment. Not a chance he was going back 10 years and thinking we had more than 3 teams combined. That would be ridiculous and highly googly doubtful what he meant.

His original point was a good one and still stands.

Clemson has a very good chance to be ranked possibly inside the top 20

 

[Pennick4]

Excellent summary of the role of inconsistency as per ND coaches who lacked prior head-coaching experience.

The challenge is to learn fast enough to OUTRUN that lack of experience. So, far, NO ND COACH, as we all know, has succeeded at this.

Freeman may be a quick enough study to end up a winning coach at ND – almost ALL ND coaches have been – but can he be “WINNING ENOUGH?” Of that, I’m still skeptical.

The challenge is TWO-FOLD:

First, you not only have to beat the teams you’re expected to beat; you must also beat RANKED TEAMS.

So far, Freeman is what – 6-5 against ranked teams? Which to me says that, as compared to other ranked teams, ND under Freeman has been SLIGHTLY ABOVE AVERAGE. But slightly above average isn't NC caliber.

Second, THERE’S ALMOST ZERO MARGIN FOR ERROR which means that you also can’t lose MORE THAN ONCE to a ranked team – plus, it’d better be early.

So, in a season where ND plays 4 ranked teams and loses to TWO of them, it’s GAME OVER as per NC contention. Which is exactly what just happened.

Freeman must accomplish what Kelly did over his last 6 years after he’d “settled in” – WIN WINNABLE GAMES – PLUS – do something Kelly DIDN’T DO – perform NEARLY PERFECTLY against ALL RANKED teams.

While Holtz proved to be excellent at both, HE FAILED QUITE A BIT AT BOTH as well. Hence, ND’s SOLE NC during his tenure.

In order for Freeman to win an NC – or even compete regularly for one – he’ll need to draw on his own apparent ability to get his teams UP for big games as well as develop Holtz’s and Kelly’s consistency against beatable opponents as demonstrated during their great 63 and 9 and 54 and 9 runs, respectively.

To achieve this, Freeman will need to GET LUCKY in two critical areas – RECRUITING and SCHEDULING. If he can’t achieve consistent TOP 5 CLASSES while having to play against an average of FOUR RANKED OPPONENTS a year, I can easily see him not “MAKING IT.” Especially given ND's fanbase's OUTSIZED EXPECTATIONS.

And before any of this can even happen, he needs to clear the INCONSISTENCY HURDLE fast enough so that he doesn’t LOSE HIS JOB along the way.

Do people fall asleep when you are talking to them?
This is a message board not a book board.

 

[Patrirish]

Do people fall asleep when you are talking to them?
This is a message board not a book board.

Why are you objecting to detailed, in depth analysis ?

Why would you want to stifle an intelligent contributor ?

But more importantly, Why weren’t you critical of “drinking the green koolaid’s” lengthy posts ?

 

[Patrirish]

Unless we lose again to Stanford or Wake Forest or whoever, we're improving. Even so, I'd take the Louisville loss over the Marshall or Stanford losses. The Louisville loss is more like the USC loss last year.

So I say you make good points, but still we're improving.

I’d tend to agree, but there’s still more football to play.

 

[Pennick4]

Why are you objecting to detailed, in depth analysis ?

Why would you want to stifle an intelligent contributor ?

But more importantly, Why weren’t you critical of “drinking the green koolaid’s” lengthy posts ?

It's a message board.

 

[Patrirish]

It's a message board.

You didn‘t answer my question.

Why were you critical of “4-4-3’s” posts, but not “drinking the green koolaids” posts ?

Both were equally lengthy.

This is a message board and I’d rather read lengthy, well thought out posts, than a post commenting on Sam Hartman’s beard.

I’m not interested in inane brevity !

 

[Pennick4]

You didn‘t answer my question.

Why were you critical of “4-4-3’s” posts, but not “drinking the green koolaids” posts ?

Both were equally lengthy.

This is a message board and I’d rather read lengthy, well thought out posts, than a post commenting on Sam Hartman’s beard.

I’m not interested in inane brevity !

You are a blowhard...that is brief and accurate. That is what we are looking for.

 

[Patrirish]

You are a blowhard...that is brief and accurate. That is what we are looking for.

I see, since you refused to answer my question which asked you why you discriminated against 4-4-3, you chose to call me names.

I get it, you won’t reveal your true motives so you try to divert and deflect attention from being disingenuous by calling me names.

That doesn’t bother me.

What bothers me is your dishonesty !

 

[Bob Rodes]

They have feasted on weaker competition is a seperate comment. Not a chance he was going back 10 years and thinking we had more than 3 teams combined.

Sez you.

That would be ridiculous and highly googly doubtful what he meant.

Yes, it would be ridiculous. People mean ridiculous things all the time here.

His original point was a good one and still stands. Clemson has a very good chance to be ranked possibly inside the top 20.

True, but irrelevant.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

I listened to the podcast linked on the home page where Miles Boykin was interviewed by Eric Hansen and Tyler James in advance of the Pitt game. Miles is now playing for the Steelers, in case you are wondering.

To emphasize a point I made earlier in this thread, Miles was very complimentary of Marcus Freeman and how Freeman has reached out to former players, including him, to build a bridge with the players on the team. You can tell Miles thinks highly of MF. In contrast, Miles didn't have a word to say about Brian Kelly, the coach he actually played for. DIdn't say anything bad about BK, but didn't offer any compliments, either.

Just sharing an observation.