Kizer
- Thread starter DieHard_Irish
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Seem everybody pointing to Kizer . But last season we lost a ton of talent on the offensive side of the ball . Blue chip linemen in Stanley, Martin, and a solid performer in Elmer . Speedy wide receivers in Fuller and Brown plus Carlisle and Robinson and running back Carlisle .
Kizer is a decent runner not sure of how potent and explosive passing attack will be ,but Zaire is a much better runner and he may be needed more in 2016 especially if we go to perhaps a shorter passing game
Kizer is a decent runner not sure of how potent and explosive passing attack will be ,but Zaire is a much better runner and he may be needed more in 2016 especially if we go to perhaps a shorter passing game
My point was, in watching the game almost a year later, it was his 2nd start, 1st road start, huge game, terrible weather ... And yet he showed the poised of a seasoned veteran. The kid just seems to have the stuff it takes. A calm and confidence that breads greatness. Nothing against Malik at all, I'll just be shocked if he us not the starting QB
If anyone thought Texas, @ Texas no less, was going to be a pushover, needs a refresher. Yea, they are struggling, but playing any team on its home turf will be difficult. And you can bet they will be smarting from last year's a** whopping!
As for QB -- like someone said, all depends on the identity that Kelly wants. If Kelly really wants to emphasize the run, then I can see Malik, he is a much better runner, and he can throw the ball pretty well too. DK on the other hand, is probably a better passer overall, but can run good too. If Kelly wants to toss the ball a little more, then I can see DK.
ND does not lose either way, just depends on the direction Kelly and staff want to go.
Kizer was great in only his second start(Clemson) and USC and other games . But against Temple he made some mistakes and against BC and Ohio State ,he had trouble making plays .
He has a long way to go before making becoming a lottery pick.
Zaire now becomes a situation player .
He has a long way to go before making becoming a lottery pick.
Zaire now becomes a situation player .
No lottery in NFL and this was Kizer's first year as a starter. He performed above my expectations.
I'm making the claim right now if Kizer is the starter and identity of the offense is to chuck it everywhere, ND will be less successful. This approach may work against lesser teams, but all we need to do is look to Clemson and OSU games to show we need to have the QB as a threat to run. With Malik I think the middle of the field is more open as LBs will take that extra second to read the zone read. Bite too hard on the zone read and Alize Jones is wide open down the middle. Hesitate on the outside zone read and containment is lost for a potential big play.
DK doesn't exactly have cement shoes. He had that nice long TD run against Temple. If he has to, he could keep the defense guessing with his feet. But, why is it necessarily for DK to be a running threat when the offense already has Josh, Dexter, and Tarean armed and ready?
Play them both. Play Wimbush too. If ND runs a balanced attack and avoids negative plays what difference does it make who the QB is? They were all highly touted and fully capable of putting the ball in the end zone. You could even line one of them up at WR and throw a pass from the WR position. I think the options are limitless if BK can remain flexible and balance the run and the pass. I also think whichever QB is most successful in the red zone should be inserted in that area of the field no matter who the starter is.
I'm excited about Kizer's future at ND and beyond. However, Zaire should get the opportunity to start, and do to Texas what he did last year. He's undefeated as a starter, although limited opportunities, I'd like to see that continue. Less risk of turnovers imo. But I'm not at practice so...
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I love MZ just as much as the next guy and I would be thrilled if he was named the starter as I would be if it is DK, but, MZ and being undefeated does not wash. There is very little body of work to come up with a definitive conclusion about MZ. The staff know best because they are around these lads all the time and judge this thing by more than these couple of games. That's like giving the batting title to a hitter because he got two hits in his only two plate appearances. Would MZ have beaten Clemson, Stanford, and Urban? Keep in mind, he doesn't play defense.
Yea I understand his record is limited, but I really liked the way he led the team. Maybe he would've kept winning. Maybe lost more games, without really even knowing about Kizer's skills. I just really like his style of play, his heart, and leadership. I'm excited about the season whoever starts as both will likely see plenty of action. Hopefully Wimbush too!
I agree with everything you said. Here is something else that we're overlooking. Although Kizer had big games I trust Zaire's decision making and ball security. It reminds me a lot of Golson's first year he was dynamic and made plays but recklessly. He missed a year but came back as the same reckless player and it cost some games. When Malik commits to running he tucks that ball away and goes for it.
Kizer had an amazing running game, all day to throw in the pocket, and had a receiver that was good for 1 fifty yard touchdown every game. Idk if he will have all of that luxury again this year. He stares down his receivers way too much. I think that I'd be happier with the dynamic play making ability from Zaire.
I hope they go with 1 qb all season long..
Don't want to go back and forth with the QB's as that could cause problems behind the scenes.
Really? So you're saying Kizer's ineffective play had to do with BC's stellar D? Turning the ball over in the red zone is decision making not stellar D.
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
The Kizer vs Malik battle this August will be a battle for the ages.
Kizer might have the edge but he has had quite a few costly interceptions and fumbles.
Malik on the other hand has never had a turnover in his college career. I would rather have a QB who doesn't make turnovers. Kizer is going to be a junior so there is a good chance he corrects those mistakes. If not Malik might be our QB.
The quarterback who shows the most propensity to not turn the ball over in fall practice will win the job !!! Period !!
Kizer might have the edge but he has had quite a few costly interceptions and fumbles.
Malik on the other hand has never had a turnover in his college career. I would rather have a QB who doesn't make turnovers. Kizer is going to be a junior so there is a good chance he corrects those mistakes. If not Malik might be our QB.
The quarterback who shows the most propensity to not turn the ball over in fall practice will win the job !!! Period !!
Did I say that? I don't think so. I'm saying that it played a part. His play also played a part. You do realize that defenses try to stop offenses? They have a game plan too. You know that, right? Besides if you want to play that game I'd ask you to rewatch Zaire against a very weak Virginia defense.
I get you. What I'm saying is between Kizer's fumbles, ints and dropped ints he doesn't give me the warm and fuzzy with the ball in his hands. Malik did have a pretty crappy 1st half against UV but never did he come close to turning the ball over.
DK, as an unexpected rookie starter, was 22nd in points responsible for, 24th in pass efficiency, and 34th in completions. He threw 10 picks. Just to put it in perspective, Chad Kelly, Watson, and Jared Goff all threw more interceptions last season. DKs 79 yard TD run against Temple, which involved slight of hand, made me feel all warm and fuzzy. You don't build a strong case for MZ by tearing down Kizer. Accentuate the positive and tell us why you believe MZ should start without the negativity on DK.
Malik was the clear #1 last year per Kelly. So assuming he's 100 percent, he's my starter. The best our offense has looked the past two seasons was against LSU and Texas. I don't think we lose the Clemson or Stanford game with a healthy Zaire.
This is as good a case as any.
Additionally, can you say with confidence the offense has more or less unpredictability with Malik or DK? To those who point to the UV game that shows Malik's shortfalls, you're absolutely correct. The thing is the opposing D wasn't the issue more than the offense shooting itself in the foot. Defending an offense led by Malik can't pin it's ears back and rush up the field. They can't sit on the run either or he'll go over the top with the PA fake. What I'm saying is there is the extra second to think. Yes DK is mobile and can scramble and break a run, but we all know he'd rather stay in the pocket. Just watch the Fiesta Bowl before Joey Bosa was kicked out, OSU blitzed and bull rushed Kizer and had him on shaky legs. Teams will be less likely to blitz a QB who will pull it down and start running like a RB.
Yep, shuttling QBs is a potential problem. If a guy starts cold averages say he's about to heat up. If he's benched and a replacement comes in cold uh oh....
Vagas Ferguson weighed in on this a few years back with regard to RBs...the same holds true with other positions....
http://www.ndinsider.com/football/n...cle_4f23909d-e0ad-5c4c-b74a-760bf1226b68.html
"Consistency is so important," Ferguson said. "You need to pick one guy who knows he's the guy to carry the ball. (Devine) always told me, 'You're out there until we have to drag you off the field.'
"There's no consistency now. All four guys are out there pressing to make big plays, because if they don't, they know they will be taken out. That's no way to handle a running game.
"Game awareness is something that was always important to me. The more I played, the more I got a feel for what was going on. On one play, I'd notice that the defense had a tendency to overrun a bit; or have a tendency to do this or that. I'd use that knowledge on my next run. I might see a place where I could cut back because I knew they were going to overrun the play.
"If you're not playing on every down, you don't get a chance to see that.
"It kills me to see one back start to roll, then get taken out. All that momentum just goes away. It doesn't help anyone. You've got four backs and they're going in and out. That's crazy.
"I could care less about keeping everyone happy. I'd tell them right off: 'You all have a role. Your time will come.'
I couldn't find fumble stats but having 10 INT's isn't terrible. The 3 against BC was terrible. 2 against Ohio State also cost ND that game. I can live with 1 per game though.
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I would say there were about 10 additional factors that led to the bowl game beat down.
DK....3rd team QB in the Spring leading up to Fall camp. Finished the season with 21 passing TDs, 10 picks, 5 fumbles (since this seems to be an issue), 10 rushing TDs since this seems to be another issue with his running ability. You can nitpick both MZ and DK or you can embrace them both.
Don't forget about the fumble right before the half against Stanford. They were in field goal range or could score a touchdown making a difference in the outcome.
I think Kizer is a better QB for most teams, & at the next level. But for the 2016 Irish I actually believe Mailk is better for what the team needs. (Ball control, run game, short passing, protect the D).
But I'm not the coach & will be happy & support both at all times.
But I'm not the coach & will be happy & support both at all times.
