Yeah...crazy, I know. But I like him. Would love to see ND try and get him. Does A LOT with limited talent at Navy!
Ken Niumatalolo as HC
- Thread starter VirginiaWildcat
- Start date
He's tremendous.
Remember it's not the how in regards to offense but rather the result.
Remember it's not the how in regards to offense but rather the result.
Oh man...I would love to see ND run an offense that's not a cookie-cutter of every other offense out there. And we'd actually have plays in short yardage situations!
So was Paul Johnson before him...
Unfortunately, branding matters today. ND isn't going to go backwards in it's attempt to thrust itself into 2016. Like it, or not, triple option is outdated and makes for fairly boring television for anyone who isn't a football purist. ND is already seen as "outdated" by a lot of kids today. They only care about what is relevant now. That is the generation that ND is now marketing too. Implementing an archaic offense at a school that is notorious for being behind the times, would not be a good move for the future of the program. ND's offensive recruiting would take a huge drop off because players don't want to play in that offense and it doesn't prepare many of them for the NFL.
Unfortunately, branding matters today. ND isn't going to go backwards in it's attempt to thrust itself into 2016. Like it, or not, triple option is outdated and makes for fairly boring television for anyone who isn't a football purist. ND is already seen as "outdated" by a lot of kids today. They only care about what is relevant now. That is the generation that ND is now marketing too. Implementing an archaic offense at a school that is notorious for being behind the times, would not be a good move for the future of the program. ND's offensive recruiting would take a huge drop off because players don't want to play in that offense and it doesn't prepare many of them for the NFL.
I don't think you can compare. Georgia Tech isn't Notre Dame, and Paul Johnson isn't Ken Niumatalolo
I posted this on another tread about an hour ago :
1. The Military Academies have a higher admission standards than ND.
2. Their Curriculum , generally speaking,is much more difficult than ND's.
3. Breakthe rules and you are dismissed from school.
4. Navy plays hard, tough, disciplined, no quit, football for 60 minutes.
5. Does Navy recruit the athletes that ND recruits? no way !
6. Just immagine what Miumatalolo would do with the type of recruit that ND brings in ?
7. Miumatolo is a Mornon, and while I am a Roman Catholic, I know many Mornons out here in Arizona , and they are very moral and good people. Miumatolo would represent ND very well.
He certainly knows how to runthe ball,and I believe that he can adapt his system and add a great passing game to it at ND
1. The Military Academies have a higher admission standards than ND.
2. Their Curriculum , generally speaking,is much more difficult than ND's.
3. Breakthe rules and you are dismissed from school.
4. Navy plays hard, tough, disciplined, no quit, football for 60 minutes.
5. Does Navy recruit the athletes that ND recruits? no way !
6. Just immagine what Miumatalolo would do with the type of recruit that ND brings in ?
7. Miumatolo is a Mornon, and while I am a Roman Catholic, I know many Mornons out here in Arizona , and they are very moral and good people. Miumatolo would represent ND very well.
He certainly knows how to runthe ball,and I believe that he can adapt his system and add a great passing game to it at ND
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No, I'm saying Paul Johnson was / is an excellent coach as well. Ken may turn out to be even better. No disagreement there.
The greater point, however, is the perception around ND if you implemented an archaic offense here. ND is constantly trying to prove that it's "with the times" I don't think they'll ever chase a coach who coaches in the "past". However effective it may be.
All well and good, but #4 and #6 are the issues.
4. Navy doesn't play hard, tough, disciplined football because Ken is there coach. They play that style of football because they go to the Naval Academy, which attracts tough, disciplined kids who lack the athleticism to compete, and need to make up for it with heart. You don't chose to go to the Naval Academy and have the portfolio to be accepted then all-of-a-sudden become tough under coach Ken. Kids are predisposed to that. They know they'll be doing a much harder job potentially someday when they graduate. That toughness is part of them, it's reinforced in Annapolis, but it doesn't start there... ND and Navy don't recruit the same type of kid.
6. He wouldn't bring the same type of recruit in, because they don't want to play in a triple option offense. Brian Kelly gets those type of offensive recruits because when they are done in ND's offense, they go to the NFL and become Zack Martin, Ronnie Stanley, Tyler Eifert, Will Fuller, Michael Floyd, etc, etc... That will cease to happen running the triple option, because the transition is tough for all but a select few. Would he get better offensive talent than at Navy? Sure. Would it be what ND gets now? Ask Paul Johnson if he gets the same type of offensive talent that they get down the road at Georgia.
And it's people like you ...the trendy crowd that will keep ND or any other program stagnate with the unfair stereo typing of of offenses today.
Let me remind you...nearly all of Saban's success were with a pro style offense. One te, one fb, two wideouts...a traditional drop back QB.
Matter of fact ...over the last twelve years two teams you could say and only two did not run quote power football and won it all.
Vince young, cam newton.
Those two were just that much more gifted than everyone else.
The rest were won with simple power football as the staple.
Does it matter to you how it's done?
Moreover I'd be willing to bet that most fan would welcome revisiting days of yore if it meant wins over cluster **** losses.
Also...I would call Navy's chaotic running game anything but ancient. You want to game plan against it...?? It's not just big boy power football but the insane misdirections used make it extremely difficult.
I'd be willing to see what they could do with that at a school not requiring service commitment or stringent on physical weights etc.
I think it would be fun.
P.s.
We'd sure as he compete better the next hurricane we play in.
BOOM
I think that the Navy offense can be modified ( not changed ) to a fit the type of Recruits that ND brings in.
The Navy offense gives everyone fits trying to defend it now. Add a bigger stronger, more talented Offensive
line, More talented receivers, and not only must defenses try to stop the running game, but the passing
game becomes a big weapon in the offense
having a great running game ( option or otherwise ) will also attract running back to ND. Tie that in with a solid defense, ND will once again become a top ranked team !
Lou also loved to mix in an option play from time to time, when he had a Tony Rice or Kevin Mc Dougal.
and Lou used a full back to great effect !
The Navy offense gives everyone fits trying to defend it now. Add a bigger stronger, more talented Offensive
line, More talented receivers, and not only must defenses try to stop the running game, but the passing
game becomes a big weapon in the offense
having a great running game ( option or otherwise ) will also attract running back to ND. Tie that in with a solid defense, ND will once again become a top ranked team !
Lou also loved to mix in an option play from time to time, when he had a Tony Rice or Kevin Mc Dougal.
and Lou used a full back to great effect !
Bingo - ND would have to do a huge change in the type of personnel they recruit due to the fact that the triple option system requires different type of athletes to run that system effectively.
The TRIPLE OPTION is the type of offense that Zaire would likely shine in running - more so than Kizer
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The team will reflect the coach. At ND a coach can recruit the type of athletes that fit his system.
How about Fullbacks that are a big part of Navy's offense ? Does a Guy called Bettis come to mind ?
As much and as successfully as Navy runs the Option, doe Tony Rice come to mind ? would gifted backs
prefer to go to a predominately passing team or a predominately running team ?
If ND wins and is Top team year in and year out top recruits will come to ND.
How about Fullbacks that are a big part of Navy's offense ? Does a Guy called Bettis come to mind ?
As much and as successfully as Navy runs the Option, doe Tony Rice come to mind ? would gifted backs
prefer to go to a predominately passing team or a predominately running team ?
If ND wins and is Top team year in and year out top recruits will come to ND.
Lol...lou even ran option on occasion with powlus and mirer just because he loved it so much. lol.....
Rice and mcdougal ran a lot of option. And it was extremely effective.
Moreover...go and ask husker fans how much they miss Tom Osborne's offense.
Yep they were so hell bent to play trendy spread football that they've not even sniffed the success Osborne had. Not even close. Think those fans would oppose bringing back that football ..ancient football I guess the trendy cats call it that today...but bringing that back and dominating once again, you think they'd be opposed to that?
People will come and watch their team win no matter how boring, but people will stop coming if losing football is happening regardless exciting or not.
I hate the triple option. I would never watch it. Hate it Hate it Hate it. it is unbelievably boring. Did I tell you sucks. You think this is the end of Notre Dame football we my as well play for the commanders and chief trophy. Oh it sucks sucks sucks.
Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
Stop it Zona !! No soup for you ! Winning football is not boring ! Chicks dig the W !!
Hilarious....yeah reinventing the wheel.
A QB...very very important, a fullback...however for the time being we can convert any of our inside backers to run fb.
We could run some of that offense right now with Malik because that would suit his talents much better than drop back.
Obviously that's not happening but those of us who like ball possession , controlling the clock, imposing your will on the other team....
We can dream can't we..❕
88'
Rice and Mcdougal were Lou's Type of guys and were certainly Option type QB's. I love when Lou ran the option with those guys.
People say we would lose top recruits if we ran the option ? Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Joe
Moore coaching the OLine on those Option teams, and we had top limemen coming to ND every year,
and going to the NFL. The OPTION offense did not hurt recruiting thise outstanding linemen !
Rice and Mcdougal were Lou's Type of guys and were certainly Option type QB's. I love when Lou ran the option with those guys.
People say we would lose top recruits if we ran the option ? Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Joe
Moore coaching the OLine on those Option teams, and we had top limemen coming to ND every year,
and going to the NFL. The OPTION offense did not hurt recruiting thise outstanding linemen !
Did you actually just "BOOM" somebody after putting words in their mouth and misconstruing what they said for several paragraphs? You sound like a politician. lets go through you paragraph.
- Your first paragraph talks about drop back quarterbacks and pro style offenses, as if I put those offenses in the same category as the triple option, which I did not. The vast majority of offenses in the NFL are Pro Style offenses, quarterbacked by pocket passers. While you are "reminding me" please tell me where I ever said that Pro Style offenses are hard to recruit to. I said that triple option offenses are difficult to recruit to because they don't translate well to the NFL and, therefore, struggle to produce NFL talent. Of course you can win championships with Pro Style offenses and dropback passers. You'd have to be an idiot to think otherwise. And because you can win with them and produce NFL'ers out of them, you can recruit to them at a VERY HIGH level.
BOOM!?
- Your second paragraph talks about winning playing power football, again as if I stated football should be played otherwise. You're absolutely right, for the most part. Never did I say ND's offense shouldn't be centred around a power rushing attack. In fact, if you read any of the number of posts I've posted on this board lately, I've talked about how power rushing needs to be the bedrock of the offense at ND because it lends to the type of player that ND is predisposed to in the Midwest and Northeast. The mistake you made is suggesting that Cam Newton ran an offense that wasn't based on power running principles. What Cam Newton ran wasn't all that different from what Tim Tebow ran, which is simply an updated model of what was once a triple option offense. Running "read option" is still running downhill. What Oregon did with Chip Kelly is still power running. What Ohio State did with Zeke Elliot is still north-south power running and what Florida did with Tim Tebow and what Auburn did with Cam Newton is still power running, it just looks a little different and it is influencing the direction the NFL is starting to head in... Brian Kelly's offense could easily run with power. Hell, Alabama is still running with power despite the fact that Jalen Hurts is in Shotgun on nearly every down. Power running is about blocking concepts and north-south principles. You don't need to limit yourself to the confines of a triple-option attack to run with power, extremely effectively.
Boom!?
Your next paragraph talks about taking fans on a joyride to days past and it assumes that implementing a triple option attack would do so. Why wouldn't Art Briles, physical downhill running style, complimented by spread passing do that? Why wouldn't Ohio State's very modern, NFL talent producing, down hill spread attack do that? What's wrong with the offense Clemson runs, with Gallman gashing you inside and Watson and his receiving targets giving you fits on the perimeter. At the same time, what's wrong with what Mark Dantonio runs? He's won more games than anyone not named Nick Saban in the last 5 years, yet he runs barely any option at all, let alone triple option. How about what Chip Kelly did at Oregon. That offense slashed downhill as well as any I've seen in the past decade. It was a spread offense, sure, but Oregon's backs were always heading North-South... There has been sooo much advancement in offensive thinking. Why must ND regress in it's thought process to run with power? We see countless examples, in multiple styles, of offenses that are extremely successful without doing what they were doing in the late 1980's and early 1990's.
Boom!?
Next you get into misdirection. There is nothing wrong with misdirection. I see plenty of it every Saturday. In a lot of cases it's highly successful. Again, Oregon uses tons of it. Florida was great at it with Tim Tebow. Hell, read option in and of itself is a product of misdirection. Brian Kelly's offense is full of it. Every year there has been more added. In fact, I think that has been a big part of Mike Sanford's contribution. Oklahoma does great things with misdirection. Sam Bradford's offense set modern NCAA records using quite a bit of misdirection and it wasn't based in triple option. Undoubtedly, misdirection has been around the game for as long as it has been played. It can be infused into literally any kind of offense you want to run. It simply requires imagination, creativity and practice. Just like there is nothing wrong with having triple option as staple play in your offense, it doesn't mean, however, that you need to base your entire offense around it. Why would you limit yourself when you're capable of recruiting athletes that can do much better.
Lastly, you're curious about what triple option would look like without restriction? Watch Georgia Tech play. They have less restrictions relative to recruiting than even Notre Dame. They also recruit in one of the most talent dense regions of the country, where tons of Southern kids could go play in a "one of kind" offense, playing big time ball against ACC powers. You know how many big time offensive recruits Georgia Tech gets?.... Very few. Have they had some success with it? Sure. Any more success that Brian Kelly has had at Notre Dame. not really.
Boom!?
Just my opinion, but ND can recruit 4 and 5 star recruits across the board on offense. Just look at the current group of starters.
Kizer: 4 star
Folston / Adams : 4 star
St. Brown: 4 star
Hunter Jr: 4 star
Sanders: 4 star
Smythe: 4 star
McGlinchey: 4 star
Nelson: 5 star
Mustipher: 4 star
McGovern: 4 star
Bars: 4 star
Recruiting is not the problem at Notre Dame. Why change to an offense kids aren't interested in playing in and make it a problem all-of-a-sudden? Notre Dame needs a culture adjustment and an attitude adjustment. They need to run down hill, with power and they need to practice it every day. They need to develop "mean" kids. They don't need to run a "relic" offense to do that. Navy does, because they are at an extreme physical and talent disadvantage and they are trying to find an equalizer. Notre Dame just needs to scheme better and develop kids that aren't mental pussies.
No Boom.
The ONLY thing it hurts is a drop back passer and receivers. The rest remain the same. Moreover ask the NFL if they love having college teams run power football to really scout line and running back play.
Because 90 percent of these kids in their mind anyways have hopes of playing on Sunday's. Most of them don't. Including the ones at pass happy spread football schools. The NFL only needs so many qbs and receivers no matter how much you get and showcase it in college.
That is because ND was a destination for top recruits. Period. And because many of the principles being used at ND by Joe Moore, were still applicable at the NFL level. When running the triple option was the "cool thing" sure ND had no problem landing the kids to run it. They didn't know anything else. Times have changed. The best players want to go to the NFL. Therefore, they go to schools that best prepare them for the NFL. That's why they aren't lined up to go to Navy, Georgia Southern or Georgia Tech. Because there is a massive disconnect between cut blocking on every single play at the college level, and pass blocking 35+ times per game like you now be asked to do at the NFL level. Hell, it's only a matter of time before the NFL makes it illegal to cut block at all. They're already ultra strict on chop blocks, the day is coming when you won't be able to cut block at all, which will mean kids would be coming to Notre Dame to learn how to cut for 4 years, only to have to learn how to block "properly" as a pro. You don't think that will hurt their draft stock?. Same argument for wide receivers. The NFL is becoming a passing league (really it already has). Why go to a school where you are going to run very few route concepts and instead be asked to block on nearly every play, when at the NFL level, they're going to pass 40 times per game and the amount of blocking you'll do is minimal? Yes you can point to fact that Denver has a hell of a receiver that that played in a triple option offense at Georgia Tech, but Paul Johnson inherited him. He committed to play in the offense that Calvin Johnson tore it up in, but there was a coaching change... How many receivers have come out of Georgia Tech since Paul Johnson changed their offense?
Lost.
The option does not translate well to the NFL therefore it's harder to recruit for????
Wow, just ****ing wow.
Please tell me this...if you're committed to running that offense you are NOT looking for an NFL style QB in the first place. You're looking for a tough nose athlete.
Receivers, again you won't be recruiting for elite NFL ready recievers because you don't throw very much, but we want tough strong good blocking receivers.
Which is easier to find....that tough receiver who blocks well as a priority or the me first 4.3 forty yard receiver.
Outside of those two spots the change in recruitment is virtually non existent.
Also....I said I would be curious to see how that offense could do AT ND. not at GT, or anywhere else for that matter. But in south bend. Period.
Lastly.....
There is something way off with you. As in you either want to offer up excuses for BK or you've no sense of reality as well.
Let me clue you in on something.
You DON'T DEVELOP mean kids. You develop technique, fundamental football yes....
You can have a coach that is very intense and gets would up and yes at times that excitement can radiate on to the players, but, make no mistake of this....you don't develop mean players or playing with attitude.
You can recruit for it ... but those teeth are cut by the players parents, their structure. Etc.
You think it's a mystery why western Pa has produced so many tremendous football players?
Why would that be.....because the mindset growing up. Those kids were raised dealing with adversity and a mentally tough upbringing.
Steel mills. Coal mines, whatever.. but do not discount the way those kids were raised and how it translated into being good football players.
That attitude was not coached or taught...it was instilled by the home.
As I said you can recruit for those kids, but you can't make then.
That offense would lose. Wishbone triple option sucks. I would never watch another game. I hate watching Georgia Tech, Navy , army and air force. no imagination and its stupid system it does not win . Watch GT. They have athletes there why are they not winning most every game. Teams know how to beat it. It only works with bad talent because people do not play against it every week. It is not winning football. Notre Dame would have 1 good season after that they would be like Paul Johnson team. When he coached navy the same idiots that want the navy coach wanted Paul johnson. dumb dumb dumb. I hate it.
So you're going to tell me that all those California kids at Stanford that play mean, tough, football, were raised in coal mines and and steel mills?
Attitude is infectious. It starts at the top of your program and players become infected by it and indoctrinated into it. I've seen some of the nicest guys in the world be complete assholes on the field. They didn't come from tough upbringings in all cases. Sure that can be a factor, but some of the toughest kids come from "soft" environments. If your generalization was true, the best recruits in the country would come out of ghettos in Chicago and Oakland, and Detroit and Baltimore, where they are dodging bullets, running from gangs and living crackhead, single mothers... Do a lot talented kids come from those backgrounds? Sure. Do just as many, if not more talented kids from the rich private schools in Florida, Texas and California? Yes. Did a guy like Tim Tebow come a rough upbringing? He was as tough a player as we've ever seen. Did Jimmy Clausen, as tough a kid as I've seen at Notre Dame in a long time have a hard life in Southern California? Jimmy was a killer. He was ruthless. He would beat teams by 50 and pass until the final seconds if Weis would have let him. And he would have rubbed it in their faces after the game as well... I can go on. I can give you 1000 more examples to counter the 1000 more that you can give me, but we'll get to the same place.
Suggesting that a tough upbringing, inherently makes you a tougher football player is a completely exaggerated generalization. Toughness is about mentality. Mentality can be altered and forged. Hell, people can straight up be brainwashed. We see that every day. People have a gang mentality. Save very few people, most act like the people around them. If you are constantly subjected to a tough environment, regardless of how you were raised and you are held constantly accountable for anything less than toughness, you will eventually just play that way... You can absolutely breed toughness into a football team and make kids play "mean". Regardless of where they come from or how they are raised. It certainly helps if they already have that toughness, but it can be learned...
Alot of kids join the Marine Corps and they are the furthest thing from tough. Talk to some of those kids 3 or 4 years later, and see how much they've changed. How much they've developed. Football is the same way. Toughness comes from commitment and confidence. If you commit enough of yourself to something, and have some success doing it, you become confident in your ability to execute it at will through repetition.
Again, Stanford is often considered one of the toughest teams in the country. Find me all the kids on the roster that were raised in shitty, tough situations.
Also, if you don't think it's hard to recruit the top offensive players in the country to run an offense that has zero similarity scheme wise to the NFL, you are fundamentally delusional. If you think there is ANYTHING in common with the way offensive lineman block in a triple option scheme, and how they block in a modern pro scheme, this conversation isn't worth having. If you think running backs learn 1/10th of what they need to know in a triple option offense, compared to what they need to know at the pro level to be an every down back, where they will be expect to pass protect 30+ times per game and be a big part of the pass game as well, I don't know what to tell you.
There is such a significant gap between what Lou Holtz ran at Notre Dame in 1988-1993 and what they are doing in the NFL today, I would venture to tell you that a kid would be better prepared for the NFL at IMG academy in Florida than they would be in that offense. How do you magically go from cut clocking every play for 4 years straight, to magically learn how to pass set against the likes of JJ Watt over night? For 4 years you are diving at hips and knees, but over night you are going to be able to execute the standard blocking that we see used today. Your going to go from the most simple pass protections as a running back, 5 or 6 times per game in an option offense, to an NFL offense, with 7 or 8 different protections, 30 times per game... Sure. That won't hurt your draft stock in 2016.
Attitude is infectious. It starts at the top of your program and players become infected by it and indoctrinated into it. I've seen some of the nicest guys in the world be complete assholes on the field. They didn't come from tough upbringings in all cases. Sure that can be a factor, but some of the toughest kids come from "soft" environments. If your generalization was true, the best recruits in the country would come out of ghettos in Chicago and Oakland, and Detroit and Baltimore, where they are dodging bullets, running from gangs and living crackhead, single mothers... Do a lot talented kids come from those backgrounds? Sure. Do just as many, if not more talented kids from the rich private schools in Florida, Texas and California? Yes. Did a guy like Tim Tebow come a rough upbringing? He was as tough a player as we've ever seen. Did Jimmy Clausen, as tough a kid as I've seen at Notre Dame in a long time have a hard life in Southern California? Jimmy was a killer. He was ruthless. He would beat teams by 50 and pass until the final seconds if Weis would have let him. And he would have rubbed it in their faces after the game as well... I can go on. I can give you 1000 more examples to counter the 1000 more that you can give me, but we'll get to the same place.
Suggesting that a tough upbringing, inherently makes you a tougher football player is a completely exaggerated generalization. Toughness is about mentality. Mentality can be altered and forged. Hell, people can straight up be brainwashed. We see that every day. People have a gang mentality. Save very few people, most act like the people around them. If you are constantly subjected to a tough environment, regardless of how you were raised and you are held constantly accountable for anything less than toughness, you will eventually just play that way... You can absolutely breed toughness into a football team and make kids play "mean". Regardless of where they come from or how they are raised. It certainly helps if they already have that toughness, but it can be learned...
Alot of kids join the Marine Corps and they are the furthest thing from tough. Talk to some of those kids 3 or 4 years later, and see how much they've changed. How much they've developed. Football is the same way. Toughness comes from commitment and confidence. If you commit enough of yourself to something, and have some success doing it, you become confident in your ability to execute it at will through repetition.
Again, Stanford is often considered one of the toughest teams in the country. Find me all the kids on the roster that were raised in shitty, tough situations.
Also, if you don't think it's hard to recruit the top offensive players in the country to run an offense that has zero similarity scheme wise to the NFL, you are fundamentally delusional. If you think there is ANYTHING in common with the way offensive lineman block in a triple option scheme, and how they block in a modern pro scheme, this conversation isn't worth having. If you think running backs learn 1/10th of what they need to know in a triple option offense, compared to what they need to know at the pro level to be an every down back, where they will be expect to pass protect 30+ times per game and be a big part of the pass game as well, I don't know what to tell you.
There is such a significant gap between what Lou Holtz ran at Notre Dame in 1988-1993 and what they are doing in the NFL today, I would venture to tell you that a kid would be better prepared for the NFL at IMG academy in Florida than they would be in that offense. How do you magically go from cut clocking every play for 4 years straight, to magically learn how to pass set against the likes of JJ Watt over night? For 4 years you are diving at hips and knees, but over night you are going to be able to execute the standard blocking that we see used today. Your going to go from the most simple pass protections as a running back, 5 or 6 times per game in an option offense, to an NFL offense, with 7 or 8 different protections, 30 times per game... Sure. That won't hurt your draft stock in 2016.
Ontario,
I realy don't watch pro football very often and have not for many years. I loved it years ago when
Lonbardi was coaching but over the years, I just gradually lost interest. I still like to watch the AZ Cardinals
to see Floyd play , but usually Sunday is Family Day.
in any case, I'll take your word on the trends and formations in pro ball.
It has been a long time since Joe moore was at ND, but, if memory serves me right, I don't thing that when Lou ran option ND did chop blocking or cut blocking, but I may be wrong on this ? i think Navy dos it a lo more becuse their linemen give up a lot in size to most teams they play.
I also know that Lou's teams could pass as well as run, so Moore's linemen were also,pretty
proficient pass blockers as well.
In short, I believe that the Navy system, can be modiied ( not changed ) to make it extremely effective
here at ND and get us back to the top in a hurry.
After a quarter century of mediocrity, I think that ND needs to make some radical changes, and if ND
can get Navy's coach, I think that he can very easily alter his system to the type of talent that he can recruit here at ND and do it with out ND dropping its academic standards ?
I realy don't watch pro football very often and have not for many years. I loved it years ago when
Lonbardi was coaching but over the years, I just gradually lost interest. I still like to watch the AZ Cardinals
to see Floyd play , but usually Sunday is Family Day.
in any case, I'll take your word on the trends and formations in pro ball.
It has been a long time since Joe moore was at ND, but, if memory serves me right, I don't thing that when Lou ran option ND did chop blocking or cut blocking, but I may be wrong on this ? i think Navy dos it a lo more becuse their linemen give up a lot in size to most teams they play.
I also know that Lou's teams could pass as well as run, so Moore's linemen were also,pretty
proficient pass blockers as well.
In short, I believe that the Navy system, can be modiied ( not changed ) to make it extremely effective
here at ND and get us back to the top in a hurry.
After a quarter century of mediocrity, I think that ND needs to make some radical changes, and if ND
can get Navy's coach, I think that he can very easily alter his system to the type of talent that he can recruit here at ND and do it with out ND dropping its academic standards ?
McDougal was not an option QB - near the goal line ND often brought in Paul Faila at QB to run option along with Jeff Burris at RB
Wishbone? Who said anything about the wishbone? LOL You obviously have no clue...
Don't worry, you wouldn't be missed...
Best proposition so far on this subject, he's a great head coach.
Moore's lineman definitely didn't cut block on every single play, neither do Georgia Tech's... For the exact reason you mentioned. They can get some bigger bodies that can hold up. They did cut block though. Much more than you see today. Especially on the DE's.
You're right, you can run a lot of option today... Lots of teams do. Ohio State runs "read option", "speed option", "Midline option", "Run, pass, option", etc, etc, every game... Oregon did the same thing with Mariota. So does Clemson with Watson... That is the modern for of what Holtz was doing.
Thanks Ontario for refreshing my memory on The times of lou and joe Moore running their option.
They were really enjoyable games to watch ! Give me a line coach like Joe Moore, and a smash mouth coach
and I don't really care what formation we use.
You mentioned The Marine Corps training in one of your treads : Chosin Reservoir , 1950 , surrounded
by Ten divisions of Chinese. Chesty Puller: " Those poor Bstrds, now we can shoot in any direction and kill them . "
Semper Fi
#3 if false. Academies have widespread cheating scandals sometimes involving 40-50 students. From very personal account, they often get placed on 'honor' (cheating) or 'academic' (failing to make grades) probation on the 1st offense. Let's put it this way, Golson would have not been booted @ USAFA.
I'm not a technical, inside baseball fan....I know what I see and comment on it in the most amateur of terms.. Now I do have a question thats been nagging me.....Notre Dame's strength and condition program.....Is Paul Longo getting the job done at Notre Dame? Does the program fit the athletes being recruited...or not? Notre Dame in the trenches seems to be shoved around on both sides way too much....Am I wrong about this?
Zona
I think that The Navy Coach will adjust his Option game to go with the talent that he has ?
He is young and I believe he will come in with no baggage and be a very fine representative of the values of ND.
But then again, he may not even be interesed in leaving Navy ?
I think that The Navy Coach will adjust his Option game to go with the talent that he has ?
He is young and I believe he will come in with no baggage and be a very fine representative of the values of ND.
But then again, he may not even be interesed in leaving Navy ?
Bizzy
You are correct that there were scandals at the Air Force Academy , but I thought that that had
to do with sexual harrassment of Female cadets ? Which I certainly do not condone.
If you are correct that there is widespread cheating at all our Military Academies, it would be very very disappointing.I lived through WWII with the great graduates of West Point and Annapolis, Mac Arthur Eisenhower, Patton, etc. Even to get admitted to the Academies was next to impossible at that time.
I also served in Korea and a number of our Marine Officers were Graduates of the Naval Academy.
they were men of honor and courage and a great insipiration to young 18 year old men like I was at that time.
However, if there is widespread cheating and dishonesty that goes unpunished at our military
Academies, it is a terrible sign of just how low the morals of our culture have sunken.
Very Sad indeed !
Cut block goes on every where. Short yardage situation in NFL...option teams, etc.
They will never outlaw it because as long as the three point stance exists it's virtually impossible to police it. They can police the chop block because of engagement by a player and a second cuts him...sure. but to outlaw cut blocking in a one vs. One setting in the trenches is impossible.
Short yardage plays low man wins...etc.
So while you think you know so much of how the outcomes would be in a hypothetical situation...that's not one of them.
Moreover if you think option football is so far removed from pro ball....in regards to everyone not the qb, you are right this Convo is over.
Matter of fact you telling everyone that cut blocking is soon to be illegal tells me exactly how very little you know on the subject of football.
And BTW...you love writing a book on here but you ought to try reading a little. I clearly state to you that any coach and it's energy can radiate onto its players ....in other words ...contagious...yes that's a great thing.
Your earlier post told us all how we need to get a coach to make them mean.
You want mean kids...recruit for it. You don't coach them mean.
I've got three sons and all very competitive...but one in particular played with his hair on fire all the time. Not because of any coach saying something or even actions.
It's just his makeup.
So yes its his energy that was contagious to his peers but only so much.
The fire in the belly is there or not.
You don't coach it.
