Kelly might be as good a coach as Lou Holtz

[NDSMC78]

I think it borders on some kind of collective paranoia to believe that Davie was hired to keep tabs on -- and undermine -- Holtz.

You guys forget that Holtz was starting to lose his marbles a little bit toward the end, sort of like Leahy. You may remember him grabbing the ref during a BYU game to show how he thought an ND player had been held. There were also stories of him and Joe Moore having screaming matches, with Moore pretty much openly defying what Holtz told him to do.

And if Davie was the hired assassin, don't you think the administration would have appointed him Holtz's successor as soon as he announced he was quitting? Instead they tried to get Gary Barnett to take the job and only after he and a couple of others stiffed the administration did they hire Davie. But I guess the idea of pretending to be interested in hiring other head coaches before "settling" on Davie would fit the conspiracy theory.

The rumor was that ND interviewed Barnett, Dave Wannstedt, and Davie. Barnett hated ND and just interviewed so he could turn down the job.

 

[HuddleBurger]

The rumor was that ND interviewed Barnett, Dave Wannstedt, and Davie. Barnett hated ND and just interviewed so he could turn down the job.

I do remember this rumor about Barnett.

 

[NDCap]

BK is not as good as Lou. Not even close . Lou's 5-6 team in his 1st year was better then many of Bk's teams from a talent standpoint. Lou recruited superstar players not RKG's. Lou' NC team followed up with a 12-1 team that would have been in the college playoff today. He would have had 4 Playoff teams. His 10-1-1 team might have been his best . The problem with Lou was the change in his offensive philosophy after Rick Mirer graduated AND the loss of Randy Moss. That one recruit would have changed everything . He also had some health issues and his wife was sick as well. The Bob Davie hire was a joke and those that followed were even worse. Lou should have been told to stay until he wanted to go . Make no mistake about , Lou had some bad losses like BK but from 88-93 his teams were dominant . Keepm in mind Bama has won championships with a loss due to playoff format today. A Lou coached team was greatly respected and feared BK's teams are not.

 

[Zorich 88]

Even Lou couldn't win consistently once the administration clamped down on the football program. His numbers in his last 3 season are downright Kelly-esque. Check it out:

1994
Record: 6-5-1
Lost at unranked Boston College 30-11 (second consecutive loss to BC), with 50 passing yards total. Followed by a loss at home to #25 BYU where ND scored only 14 points. Also got smoked in the Fiesta Bowl by Colorado, 41-24 (CU led 31-3 before calling off the dogs).

1995
Record: 9-3
Lost to unranked Northwestern at home, 17-15 in the season opener. Got blown out at Ohio State, 45-26. Struggled mightily to beat unranked Army 28-27 at Giants Stadium, and finally lost the Orange Bowl to Florida State, 31-26.

1996
Record: 8-3
Opened the season on a Thursday night and barely beat lowly Vanderbilt 14-7, dropping 3 spots in the rankings with the win. Got dominated at home by Ohio State, rushing for a total of 44 yards in the 29-16 loss. Lost at home in OT to lowly Air Force. The last game of the season saw ND lose to a 5-6 USC team in the Coliseum in OT, 27-20. The admin was still too arrogant to accept a bid to a minor bowl, so there was no bowl game in Lou's last year.

Did Lou suddenly become a bad coach? Did he suddenly forget how to coach fundamentals? No, I would posit that the administration, headed up by Fr. Malloy and Fr. Beauchamp, began cracking down on the football program, which was becoming a bit too renegade for their tastes. This affected recruiting and the ability to bring in the type of athletes Holtz coveted. Beauchamp had already signed the one-of-a-kind NBC contract, and negotiated ND's entry into the Big East Conference, so the money was in the bank and his stock was high. Now it was time to "clean up" the football program, in spite of all the fame and riches it had brought the school.

This new culture of scholarly superiority in favor of gridiron excellence has been in place ever since, resulting in the Era of Mediocrity. You could argue that Davie, Willingham, and Weis were not good college football coaches based on their records at other programs. But Brian Kelly has good numbers as a coach outside of ND, and has very similar numbers to Lou during the Era of Mediocrity at ND, so he might very well be as good a coach as Lou. At the very least you could say that if Lou couldn't win under ND's restrictions, they may never find a coach who can.

The administration needs to decide that championship football is important to the University. It won't matter who the coach is until they do. IMHO, of course.

For anyone to compare a mediocre coach to a guy that has won a championship at ND is totally clueless. Save all your stats. Save all your records. Lou won the championship at ND when academic restrictions even tougher. The guy won a ring! There is a statue of Lou outside the stadium. Kelly will never come close to reaching Lou status.

 

[Granite45]

Lou won the championship at ND when academic restrictions even tougher. .

Unlikely true considering Prop 48 players that Holtz was able to have. For the general student, academic standards are higher now than back then; do not claim to know how it compares for players.

 

[HDK]

Unlikely true considering Prop 48 players that Holtz was able to have. For the general student, academic standards are higher now than back then; do not claim to know how it compares for players.

Only two Prop 48s, one of whom happened to be the incredibly talented Tony Rice. The other was a duy named Foley, whose first name I forget. He suffered a debilitating shoulder injury in the Cotton Bowl loss to Texas A&M after the 87 season and never played again.

But no doubt, the restrictions were nowhere near as onerous as they are now.

 

[perseverare]

Kelly is in his own era matched against his era of coaches.
Against the top oaches/teams, he gets pantsed.
Even when he has the talent advantage (or percieved talent advantage) he always makes the game a battle through his own gaffaws and arrogance.

The crux of the matter is this:
If this recruiting class fails to bring in the following elite position players in addition to current commits:
1 Large DE
1 very large DT
1 very large, athletic OT
1 tall elite DB and 1 'near' elite.
1 LB: elite
(Elite: top 5 at their position.)
6 needed commitments, 5 plug n play and 1 to develop.
This would be a top 5 recruiting class and is what is needed to correct past recruiting failures.
If that does not happen, Kelly is not on the sideline for the '18 kickoff.

 

[Sarah_Plain_And_Tall]

Even Lou's last 2 season are better than Kelly's "normal" season. And to use the last 3 year records of Kelly and Lou vs. ranked teams is silly. How quickly we forget that Lou won BIG games (FSU, Miami, Colorado, etc). What has Kelly done (except beating a mediocre OU team). This post is blasphemy. Maybe we should put statue of Kelly up and tear Lou's down.

 

[cgvr]

Even Lou couldn't win consistently once the administration clamped down on the football program. His numbers in his last 3 season are downright Kelly-esque. Check it out:

1994
Record: 6-5-1
Lost at unranked Boston College 30-11 (second consecutive loss to BC), with 50 passing yards total. Followed by a loss at home to #25 BYU where ND scored only 14 points. Also got smoked in the Fiesta Bowl by Colorado, 41-24 (CU led 31-3 before calling off the dogs).

1995
Record: 9-3
Lost to unranked Northwestern at home, 17-15 in the season opener. Got blown out at Ohio State, 45-26. Struggled mightily to beat unranked Army 28-27 at Giants Stadium, and finally lost the Orange Bowl to Florida State, 31-26.

1996
Record: 8-3
Opened the season on a Thursday night and barely beat lowly Vanderbilt 14-7, dropping 3 spots in the rankings with the win. Got dominated at home by Ohio State, rushing for a total of 44 yards in the 29-16 loss. Lost at home in OT to lowly Air Force. The last game of the season saw ND lose to a 5-6 USC team in the Coliseum in OT, 27-20. The admin was still too arrogant to accept a bid to a minor bowl, so there was no bowl game in Lou's last year.

Did Lou suddenly become a bad coach? Did he suddenly forget how to coach fundamentals? No, I would posit that the administration, headed up by Fr. Malloy and Fr. Beauchamp, began cracking down on the football program, which was becoming a bit too renegade for their tastes. This affected recruiting and the ability to bring in the type of athletes Holtz coveted. Beauchamp had already signed the one-of-a-kind NBC contract, and negotiated ND's entry into the Big East Conference, so the money was in the bank and his stock was high. Now it was time to "clean up" the football program, in spite of all the fame and riches it had brought the school.

This new culture of scholarly superiority in favor of gridiron excellence has been in place ever since, resulting in the Era of Mediocrity. You could argue that Davie, Willingham, and Weis were not good college football coaches based on their records at other programs. But Brian Kelly has good numbers as a coach outside of ND, and has very similar numbers to Lou during the Era of Mediocrity at ND, so he might very well be as good a coach as Lou. At the very least you could say that if Lou couldn't win under ND's restrictions, they may never find a coach who can.

The administration needs to decide that championship football is important to the University. It won't matter who the coach is until they do. IMHO, of course.

From TOS....
"Kelly's ND teams are only 5-6 against ranked opponents when ND was ranked in the top 10. Holtz, by comparison, was 24-11-1 ."

kelly stinks, bvg stinks, you stink...