ADVERTISEMENT

It's been said and I'll say it again the 2nd and 1 play call was absolutely HORRIBLE

No it wasn't a mistake at all. The call was fine, the read by Riley was terrible and the throw to Mitchell was even worse. You expect your experienced QB not to make that kind of mistake. Mitchell was open and Collins was also open. Calling it a horrible call is just Monday morning quarterbacking, because the execution was atrocious
 
Too many variables. To the point you need a lot of computing power and increasing time. Our brains are evolved for energy efficient decisioning of complexity...never mind what you get on the house to breathe, feel, balance, and see, which involves so many factors to process in real time, we're not even aware of it.

A massive advantage in human cognition is:

1) You don't need the BEST decision.
2) Just avoid a BAD decision.

AI generates howlers in this context. Even in something like self driving cars. I had the advanced version of the software in my Tesla as a 1 month trial. I had to correct a few times...and it demands more attention that when I drive.

I hope they give what you said a test. But I bet a human will override a howler call.
Right, exactly, because computers don't care about winning. They don't care about anything. They're not alive, they have no sense of self-preservation. An algorithm with a utility function or whatnot is not the same thing as living, breathing human being fighting for his survival, with all his mental/emotional faculties at his disposal. And everyone's already familiar with Chat GPT's 'hallucinations'.

But who knows, maybe computers will one day be able to account for all of that, and there's an algorithmic fix for every last possible contingency.
 
I'll never give into that's the best time to take a shot. B effing S! You haven't established a downfield passing game all year and you obviously can't stop NIU's running attack consistently. Get the 1st down and continue to bleed the clock for a tuddy or a field goal.

I swear no matter who calls plays for ND gets struck by the BK sickness.
No....

It's simply this...

Just because someone bears the title "coach" doesn't mean they're any good at it.
Doesn't even mean they're average at it.

In our case...might likely mean they're BAD at it.
 
To add...
Worse than the call was the throw. If you do that there it has to be caught by our guy or over thrown.

The problem is Riley only has 40 yards in that arm.
45 without pads and helmet.

Sad...
That...
We....
Pay$$...
For...
This...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chitown11
If that's your take, and i'm fine with that. Why the F was he brought to ND and still playing the 2nd half? It's how he threw last year, he was terrible throwing vs A&M, and terrible vs NIU in the first half?

Either they aren't coaching him well or he's just a flat out terrible passer that can NOT be fixed. That's our two takes, either one, he shouldn't be playing. right?
 
it was second and one at your forty.you run the ball.youonly need two first downs and the clock will run out.Denbrock should have been upstairs calling the play . also get a kicker who can punt the ball 45yards with hang time.the irish wern,t outplayed. they were OUTCOACHED>
 
Not at that point of the game you don't. Bad play call. Even worse throw
But hes your golden boy. Reilly the dude with so much talent/potential, LOL. Are you going to continue to tell us he how great he is? Or admit once in your fricking life that you were wrong and the guy stinks
 
But hes your golden boy. Reilly the dude with so much talent/potential, LOL. Are you going to continue to tell us he how great he is? Or admit once in your fricking life that you were wrong and the guy stinks
He does have talent/potential. It's 2 games into the season. 1 solid game. 1 terrible game.

Is the season over? Are we forfeiting the rest of the season?

I didn't hear that yet
 
Not at that point of the game you don't. Bad play call. Even worse throw
Mike Denbrock is not to blame.

Blame Riley Leonard. All on him.

If you are going to miss, do not miss short.
 
Mike Denbrock is not to blame.

Blame Riley Leonard. All on him.

If you are going to miss, do not miss short.
I blame Denbrock and Riley

Bad call. Awful throw

2nd at 1 at the 50 with the lead and the clock moving. Get the first down
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chitown11
I blame Denbrock and Riley

Bad call. Awful throw

2nd at 1 at the 50 with the lead and the clock moving. Get the first down
And if the result of that second down and one play is a Touchdown, you would never say after the game...... "bad call..."

The only reason you do is because Riley Leonard missed bad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DieHard_Irish
And if the result of that second down and one play is a Touchdown, you would never say after the game...... "bad call..."

The only reason you do is because Riley Leonard missed bad.
It was a bad call regardless of outcome.
 
I'll say one thing; I've always supported Marcus, but if Riley was in fact hurt enough where we couldn't run him after the 1st QTR, then not going to Angeli in that game is inexcusable and makes me think Marcus actually IS in over his head.
 
I'll say one thing; I've always supported Marcus, but if Riley was in fact hurt enough where we couldn't run him after the 1st QTR, then not going to Angeli in that game is inexcusable and makes me think Marcus actually IS in over his head.
He ran the ball in the 2nd quarter and gave the ball on a zone read in the 4th.

Edit: I don’t believe he ran in the second. I was mistaken.
 
He does have talent/potential. It's 2 games into the season. 1 solid game. 1 terrible game.

Is the season over? Are we forfeiting the rest of the season?

I didn't hear that yet
He sucked in College Station. Just didn't lose the game.

He sucked against NIU

He sucked at Durham

Riley is a lousy QB.

Period!

P.s.

He's the perfect QB for a school like NIU.

speaking of NIU...

I'd take their QB over Riley all day long and twice on Saturday
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chitown11
Totally disagree, he had 2 open receivers. It was an absolute misread and a terrible throw by an experienced QB. Both Collins and Mitchell were open, you take your shot, but obviously execute much better.
So he's injured as you said later but you wanted him sitting in the pocket throwing a deep ball on 2nd and 1 at the 50 when we're trying to ice the game. Hand the ball off, use the clock, get your first down and let the defense get some rest
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chitown11
He sucked in College Station. Just didn't lose the game.

He sucked against NIU

He sucked at Durham

Riley is a lousy QB.

Period!

P.s.

He's the perfect QB for a school like NIU.

speaking of NIU...

I'd take their QB over Riley all day long and twice on Saturday
Caleb Williams averaged 7 yards of offense per game more in 2023 than Leonard did in 2022. He didn’t suck at Durham and he didn’t suck at A&M.
 
So he's injured as you said later but you wanted him sitting in the pocket throwing a deep ball on 2nd and 1 at the 50 when we're trying to ice the game. Hand the ball off, use the clock, get your first down and let the defense get some rest
Coaching from a chair, after the game, is the easy part.

In the stadium, in the moment, second and one, I do not fault Mike Denbrock at all.

And I won't tomorrow.
 
Coaching from a chair, after the game, is the easy part.

In the stadium, in the moment, second and one, I do not fault Mike Denbrock at all.

And I won't tomorrow.
I will. We were all screaming about the call where I was watching the game. And about the throw

Everyone was like what the hell are we thinking going deep at that point. And what the hell kind of a throw was that

Both were ripped to shreds
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chitown11
I will. We were all screaming about the call where I was watching the game. And about the throw

Everyone was like what the hell are we thinking going deep at that point. And what the hell kind of a throw was that

Both were ripped to shreds
The farther you are away from the game, the easier it is to coach.
 
The farther you are away from the game, the easier it is to coach.
So I don't want to hear you complaining about 10 men on the field anymore or of it happens again.

Easier to coach away from the game
 
Caleb Williams averaged 7 yards of offense per game more in 2023 than Leonard did in 2022. He didn’t suck at Durham and he didn’t suck at A&M.
Perhaps you're on the hook for his NIL money?
Or...
Perhaps...
Your passing game expectations are that low?

He's great for Bucknell. IUP.
William and Mary

He sucks for ND ...or any school with post season aspirations.

Thread 'Riley Leonard before Notre Dame...'

https://notredame.forums.rivals.com/threads/riley-leonard-before-notre-dame.192333/
 
He does have talent/potential. It's 2 games into the season. 1 solid game. 1 terrible game.

Is the season over? Are we forfeiting the rest of the season?

I didn't hear that yet
"Solid game?" Really, are you fricking serious? Your BFF has ZERO TD passes, ranked 110th at 18.5pts per game, passing efficiency is ranked 130th, and 5.1 yards per pass attempt. He's solid as a rock, LMFAO. I mean a marshmallow
 
Last edited:
So he's injured as you said later but you wanted him sitting in the pocket throwing a deep ball on 2nd and 1 at the 50 when we're trying to ice the game. Hand the ball off, use the clock, get your first down and let the defense get some rest
Totally disagree; there was nothing inherently wrong with the play call, there was everything wrong with the execution of it. So we'll agree to disagree
 
If Riley Leonard was hurt, and could not run. The fact Freeman left him in the game, makes him SOLEY responsible for this loss. Riley Leonard with no ability to run, is far and away the worst QB on the roster. The reason ND has had 3 of these horrific losses in 2 seasons and 3 games is, because this Head Coach is clueless. A deep shot on 2nd & 1 is a fine call, but throwing the ball deep with a busted QB is coaching malpractice of the highest order.
 
He does have talent/potential. It's 2 games into the season. 1 solid game. 1 terrible game.

Is the season over? Are we forfeiting the rest of the season?

I didn't hear that yet
The only potential I see from Riley is the potential to be really bad
 
If Riley Leonard was hurt, and could not run. The fact Freeman left him in the game, makes him SOLEY responsible for this loss. Riley Leonard with no ability to run, is far and away the worst QB on the roster. The reason ND has had 3 of these horrific losses in 2 seasons and 3 games is, because this Head Coach is clueless. A deep shot on 2nd & 1 is a fine call, but throwing the ball deep with a busted QB is coaching malpractice of the highest order.
I know, all you gotta do is take him out, and put him back in when he's better, vs Purdue, vs whoever. You don't have to permanently switch to Angeli. The point being, as you seem to allude to, there would be no need or call for any loyalty to, of all people, this newcomer, this transfer QB, as if his presence is some specific reflection on you, and so you're going to be loath to ever take him out. When of course such hesitation could be easily to the detriment of the team.

That's pure psychologizing on my part, but good god, I sure hope that's not where MF finds himself. You have to be strong enough as a HC, in the brave new world of free transfers and NIL money, to make a big investment and bring in a sought-after QB, but still be willing to bench him as needed for the good of the team, and by extension yourself, if the circumstances dictate, in this case merely a minor injury. And permanently or indefinitely if need be. And not let it feel as if it's your failure and let it cloud your judgement or affect your leadership.
 
Disagree........ Poorly coached and communicated. This is where talking in the head set to Riley should have helped out.

"It's 2nd and 1, if it's not there look to your check down option" ....... That's the type of info you reinforce during the week and right before the play. A coach isn't going to say "don't throw a pick or don't underthrow it".

The fact that riley made the decision to throw it and threw it that short, lets anyone know it was poorly coached and prepared. Probably because we hardly throw downfield in practice. He threw a line drive, that pass is NEVER a line drive. So again, preparation that was clearly a disaster last week.
How do you know that exact quote wasn’t said into Riley’s headset pre snap? Not forcing it in that situation should be common sense for a qb with as much experience as Riley.
 
I'll never give into that's the best time to take a shot. B effing S! You haven't established a downfield passing game all year and you obviously can't stop NIU's running attack consistently. Get the 1st down and continue to bleed the clock for a tuddy or a field goal.

I swear no matter who calls plays for ND gets struck by the BK sickness.
If we didn't have a QB with a noodle arm, he hits him in stride for a huge gain or maybe even a TD.
 
Perhaps you're on the hook for his NIL money?
Or...
Perhaps...
Your passing game expectations are that low?

He's great for Bucknell. IUP.
William and Mary

He sucks for ND ...or any school with post season aspirations.

Thread 'Riley Leonard before Notre Dame...'

https://notredame.forums.rivals.com/threads/riley-leonard-before-notre-dame.192333/
It’s not my NIL or passing game expectations, I’m just very familiar with Leonard’s body of work and not throwing in the towel off of one game.

Where were you posting all of this stuff in the offseason or at least after the A&M game?
 
"Solid game?" Really, are you fricking serious? Your BFF has ZERO TD passes, ranked 110th at 18.5pts per game, passing efficiency is ranked 130th, and 5.1 yards per pass attempt. He's solid as a rock, LMFAO. I mean a marshmallow
Yeah he was solid. He won on the road with a below average OL and had a QBR of 66. That is above average. He was solid. No turnovers ran well. Solid game 1. Awful game 2
 
Yeah he was solid. He won on the road with a below average OL and had a QBR of 66. That is above average. He was solid. No turnovers ran well. Solid game 1. Awful game 2
Agreed Game 1 was solid (he also had 12 carries for 63 yds). But if the struggles continue Saturday, I hope they're willing to make a QB change at halftime, if needed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Golson5
Right, exactly, because computers don't care about winning. They don't care about anything. They're not alive, they have no sense of self-preservation. An algorithm with a utility function or whatnot is not the same thing as living, breathing human being fighting for his survival, with all his mental/emotional faculties at his disposal. And everyone's already familiar with Chat GPT's 'hallucinations'.

But who knows, maybe computers will one day be able to account for all of that, and there's an algorithmic fix for every last possible contingency.


Let me distill it this way...decision are typically made by:

1) plotting a curve through N dimensions in a graph for best fit...gives odds of outcome.
2) so called neural network...paths of outcomes based on how many factors in each layer.

Another way to explain it is you can use statistics to record throwing a football and where it will land. Get the variables on each throw. AI will do a solid job of predicting where the ball lands.

But statistical confidence factor is not the laws of physics. The laws of physics will predict EXACTLY where the football will land. The usual correlation vs causality.

Of course, AI can use the laws of physics...but without the laws, well, you use regressions or neural networks.
 
I know this thread is about the play call........ I haven't read through all the posts but I didn't see anything on the fact with this play it didn't involve play action. Second and one, and you don't use PA. It would have sucked the lbs more making greathouse even easier to see, and possibly the safety more probably making riley feel like he had more room to launch it. I still put 95% of the fault on riley for this play, but to not use PA in this instance was stupid. If you didn't trust the line to block a PA pass, then don't throw a pass at all on 2nd and 1.

I can not believe we lost this game with 2nd and one at midfield with 5 minutes to go and leading. 2-3 first downs rushing wins it without scoring.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT