injuries and being under manned certainly played a major role in the game
It’s pretty evident
- Thread starter huff60
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Well I don't think it was 'bad coaching'. But it was frustrating, and it certainly wasn't our best foot put forward. Sort of typified by the crucial third down conversion with the unfortunate single coverage, involving tOSU's generational WR talent, somehow matched up on an island, all alone vs our most vulnerable CB.
THIS IS A BIT OF A RAMBLE, BUT BEAR WITH ME . . .
Two outcomes could VALIDATE your motorsport analogy, though the point it makes is at least to me ALREADY SELF-EVIDENT.
First, Kelly could win an NC at LSU. That's not a prediction, and I wouldn't even say it's a greater probability than Freeman winnning one at ND. In fact, I'd class both outcomes as having signficantly less than a 50/50 likelihood.
Second, Freeman's third season could turn out to be his ND HIGH-WATER MARK, just as Kelly's third season was HIS. Again, not a prediction but certainly a REASONABLE POSSIBILITY, given ND's HARD-CORE ACADEMIC APPROACH.
What I find ironic is that whereas former ICONIC or MERELY SUCCESSFUL ND coaches ALL won NC's in their third year, what NOW seems to define a succesful ND coach is making it to the championship game AND THEN LOSING.
And this, as you RELENTLESSLY POINT OUT has nothing to do with ND not having really good players, but rather with its simply NOT HAVING ENOUGH OF THE VERY BEST PLAYERS. And with that, I FULLY AGREE. One can be a terrificly consistent A or even A- student but only A+ students become VALEDICTORIANS.
Trouble is -- to return to your ANALOGY -- ND REFUSES TO BUILD A BETTER CAR. And as the OSU game proved once again, as good a driver as ND's staff was, the DRIVER ALONE CAN'T MAKE THE CAR.
I think, though, that this is something a lot of ND fans have RESIGNED THEMSELVES to. They accept that they're rooting for AT BEST a consistent top-10 team that will sometimes make it to top-5 and sometimes to the TITLE BOUT where those same fans will then hold their breaths for -- let's call it -- AN UNLIKELY OUTCOME.
And that's the current VALUE PROPOSITION.
But let me ask you UNDER JUST WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES WOULD YOU SEE THAT CHANGING?
In other words, ND suddenly "WAKES UP" and decides to do it YOUR WAY. Take me through the PROCESS.
Your critique to me is VALID. But your "solution" is less PRACTICAL even than an EQUALITY-OF-OUTCOME social justice argument made by a COMMUNIST at a JP MORGAN board meeting.
You've REPEATEDLY made your case. NOW TRY MOVING THE NEEDLE.
Trouble is, neither you NOR ANYONE can.
My humble opinion.
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To me, ND's D-Line got blocked and OSU'S backs were through the hole before ND's LB'S could get to them. Either OSU's RB's were A STEP TOO FAST or ND'S LB's were a STEP TOO SLOW.
SAME DIFFERENCE.
Plus ND's pass rush couldn't OVERCOME OSU's OL and when he ran, Howard WAS MORE EFFECTIVE than Leonard.
Not by a wide margin, but OSU was FASTER AND STRONGER in the ONE ON ONE'S.
To me, that's a TALENT and NATURAL ABILITY DIFFERENTIAL.
OSU MADE PLAYS. ND, NOT SO MUCH.
This has happened REPEATEDLY with ND REGARDLESS of who the head coach was.
I do feel pretty certain about this though: If we took OSUs $25M 5-star & 4.5-star laden roster and exchanged it with NDs $5M 3-star & 4-star laden 85-man roster, Marcus Freeman and his staff would beat OSU just the same way Ryan Day and his staff beat ND.
Agreed.
My take is that ND was FACING the best RB duo in the country. And if not them, then PSU's.
As for ND's duo, they had ZERO blocking. What was the rushing total for ND? 53 yards. And that included Leonard.
At the beginning of the season, I was concerned with the offensive line
The OL and the DL is where everything begins
No it doesn’t
That just shows how little you know about football
If a QB is on his back, he’s not completing many of his passes.
If he doesn’t get protection and time it doesn’t matter how good he is.
Just ask Tom Brady when he lost the Super Bowl to the Giants
Absolutely.
The bedrock of the game is BLOCKING AND TACKLING.
ND's O-line jelled just enough at different times, playing better against WORSE TEAMS and worse against BETTER TEAMS.
Both lines were continually a WORK IN PROCESS, and I'm frankly amazed at HOW WELL THEY PLAYED, all things considered.
I was impressed by the D line how it survived and exceled despite all the injuries
The injury wheel of misfortune will likely be the most important variable in winning a national title.
It’s pretty obvious our staff knew Coogan and spindler although solid are not good enough. Baker clearly wasn’t/isnt good enough. They took a chance on Pendleton and Knapp knowing although they are young they were more talented. Knapp was good, Pendleton just couldn’t get it going and was by far our worst olinemen. He got benched due to that, and Coogan played due to injury. This years oline will be significantly more talented red and more experienced than last years even if say lambert starts.
Then why do you think they started him over Coogan and spindler?
At minimum, he clearly had more athleticism. But he played pretty bad overall. There’s no reason as even a RS soph to have as many busts and whiffs as he did. Makes me think the lights were too bright for him.
Now I know you are trolling LOL.
No mention of RB.....we have a top 3 rb room in the country and the number 1 NFL rb prospect but you only see top talent at OL.... And no mention of the best young corner in cfb, LOL
Love
Price
Schrauth
Jagusah
Wagner
Fields
Young
KVA
Moore
Shuler
Gray
Traore
Bowen
That's only some of the top guys. We have a lot more NFL talent and combine invites very likely and Young guys in the young classes who will emerge soon, Carr Ked Young Williams Gilbert etc
Greathouse
Knapp
Craig
Faison
Pauling
Smith
Sneed
Ausberry
Botelho
Stroman
Raridon
Etc etc
Our guys are going to be living at the combine for the foreseeable future
I said young top talent
Love is a junior and price is a senior… they’re both likely gone after this year and 2 of our very few combine invites next year.. I say we have 5 or 6 invites max next year
We have good players at rb after price and young but not top talent.
What’s your prediction for combine invites next year? We had 9 this year. I would bet a mortgage payment it will be less.
In your first list only 3 players will be underclassmen in the 25 season, in your second list one.
Notice how most of your list is ol and lb like I said.
Theta like 25 guys that may get invited to combine next 3 years , half are probably locks… again, averaging less than the we had this year
We should be increasing off 9 if we had top talent, but we don’t. Biggest issue being DL
That's just crazy talk because when you say underclassmen for the 25 season that's only the freshman and sophomore classes and we haven't seen the freshman even go through spring practice yet. Come on man that's just being silly. I could sit here and say Faraimo Blair Black Zachary Golden Flanigan etc but that means nothing because they haven't even had their first practice.
So according to you you are only counting 1 class then, the sophomores. Thats like 25 guys and they were awesome as freshman and some of the most talented ones didn't even play, Lambert Carr Williams Kedren Gilbert
So your premise is ridiculous.
We had 8 combine invites this year, not 9
We have so much young talent that all our top players have multiple years left so it's hard to predict who will not use their eligibility
My list came from players at every position. Funny you didn't mention RB when I have 3 guys in there with crazy talent Love Price Young and DB, I think all 5 starters get drafted Moore Shuler Stroman Smith Gray.
And some of our freakiest guys on the team play DL, Young Traore Thomas Mukam
Your points were really really bad that you have to be trolling
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On a recent Irish Illustrated Insider podcast, they had a ND fan who is also a very successful better on. Anyway, he says unless QBs are involved that losing a handful of players, even starters, doesn't really change the outlook of the game all that much.
Also OSUs offensive line was more banged up than hours in that game
NDs NFL talent is like their 85 man roster talent: second and third tier
I'd rather have a graduating class with several first round picks, several second round picks, etc (impact NFL talent) than have a bunch of mid to end of draft prospects that probably won't make much of an NFL impact at all
I'd rather have a graduating class with several first round picks, several second round picks, etc (impact NFL talent) than have a bunch of mid to end of draft prospects that probably won't make much of an NFL impact at all
My entire premis is we aren't increasing the NFL talent. The frosh class coming in most likely could have 1 maybe 2 combine invites that leave before senior year.
Again, at RB i agree with you other than young, i'm not ready to say he's a top talent yet.
Thomas and Mukam are far from freakiest. Thomas may turn into a good player, i don't think Mukam will.
So are we increasing on 8 or decreasing next 2 years?
I do believe overall talent is better on the team, but i'm seeing a decline in NFL talent at the DL, TE, WR from pre Freeman.
RB and Secondary big up tick. OL, LB probably level (with LB potentially trending up).
Need DL to pick it up as we all know.
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Yeah I know what you were trying to say but you were obviously wrong. We are increasing the NFL talent on the roster
In the next 3 years, we'll average more than 8 for sure.
Top level talent has increased big time
DL - I don't remember a more athletic/talented DE room than Young Traore Thomas Botelho Burnham. Only one close was 2018.
LB - Definitely up lol. Not potentially
WR has been a problem for multiple years pre Freeman and finally is starting an uptick
Overall talent is definitely much greater throughout the roster. Last year playoffs run showed that and it only looks to be increasing
