Is it that the entire fate of Notre Dame's future in football rests in

[perseverare]

the hands of Jack Swarbrick and Brian Kelly?

Is there no voice of reason at Notre Dame to intervene? Is there no person of power to reverse this downward spiral?

 

[tkirish]

the hands of Jack Swarbrick and Brian Kelly?

Is there no voice of reason at Notre Dame to intervene? Is there no person of power to reverse this downward spiral?

Pers, the simple fact is this. No one in charge cares. If anyone did care about football being relevant, ND wouldn't be in the state that they are in. Thus nothing will change. However, there is one thing we as fans can do. That's stop going , watching and supporting in anyway shape or form. Once the stands are half full they'll start to think. Once NBC pullls the tv contract, then they'll start to act. Until then, its more of the same.

 

[perseverare]

but truth is then it will be too late.

 

[Legendsteve]

It has been too late since 1996.

 

[theskibro]

the hands of Jack Swarbrick and Brian Kelly?

Is there no voice of reason at Notre Dame to intervene? Is there no person of power to reverse this downward spiral?

what, you want Waldo?

This program is officially dead I am convinced We flat out suck and it is because of our AD's White, Swarshit have taken us down

 

[Sullyirish14]

I say we stage a coup and overthrow the powers that be, Viva La France

 

[perseverare]

It just seems so incredibly incredulous that Swarbrick would do nothing and let the program fall!

Jack how could you! Where is your respect for Rockne, The Four Horsemen, Gipper, Leahy, Ara, Lujack and so many of the greats of past glories? Will you let ND become ancient history?

 

[Legendsteve]

Jack is a water carrier. Decisions like these are made WAY above Mr. Swarbrick. He will toe the company line in the end. Too sweet a gig to go down with Brian Kelly.

 

[twalsh]

It just seems so incredibly incredulous that Swarbrick would do nothing and let the program fall!

Jack how could you! Where is your respect for Rockne, The Four Horsemen, Gipper, Leahy, Ara, Lujack and so many of the greats of past glories? Will you let ND become ancient history?

Geez Perse, you are becoming the biggest drama queen on this board.

 

[perseverare]

just do not get how the guy does not get it!

Occam's razor

 

[Java65]

Geez Perse, you are becoming the biggest drama queen on this board.

Perse does have a point. Outside of Ty's first year, a couple of years with Weis and the 12-0 season with Kelly ND have been very, very mediocre to poor. That's 20 years of being an average football school.

Do you really think if this goes on another 20 years ND won't become Army? A once powerful football program that very few follow anymore. I know my son who is 22 and was a HUGE ND fan, rarely watches games anymore. I offered to get tickets to see them play at NC State this year (15 mins from my house) and he wasn't interested in making the hour drive from school to go watch.

ND isn't a school that produces 5,000 alumni every year that will follow regardless of their record. If they don't win those that didn't go to ND will never become interested.

 

[twalsh]

just do not get how the guy does not get it!

Occam's razor

What makes you think he doesn't get it? And think about it, and the position he has, before you answer.

 

[twalsh]

Perse does have a point. Outside of Ty's first year, a couple of years with Weis and the 12-0 season with Kelly ND have been very, very mediocre to poor. That's 20 years of being an average football school.

Do you really think if this goes on another 20 years ND won't become Army? A once powerful football program that very few follow anymore. I know my son who is 22 and was a HUGE ND fan, rarely watches games anymore. I offered to get tickets to see them play at NC State this year (15 mins from my house) and he wasn't interested in making the hour drive from school to go watch.

ND isn't a school that produces 5,000 alumni every year that will follow regardless of their record. If they don't win those that didn't go to ND will never become interested.

Were you a fan in the Faust era? We were supposed to be dead and buried as a program, never to return to our former glory? Then we made a good coaching hire, and voila, we are back. We didn't become Army.

 

[perseverare]

^ that was a very different era! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ before the $EC

 

[Java65]

Were you a fan in the Faust era? We were supposed to be dead and buried as a program, never to return to our former glory? Then we made a good coaching hire, and voila, we are back. We didn't become Army.

yea, but that was 5 bad years.. this is 20. I was a fan starting from the last year or 2 of Ara until now. Like I said there is an entire generation that only knows ND as a team that used to win NC but now is just "ok".

 

[perseverare]

how many times to I have to be correct until maybe you figure I see something?

 

[twalsh]

how many times to I have to be correct until maybe you figure I see something?

 

[twalsh]

yea, but that was 5 bad years.. this is 20. I was a fan starting from the last year or 2 of Ara until now. Like I said there is an entire generation that only knows ND as a team that used to win NC but now is just "ok".

No comparison. The Faust years were BAD years. In our last five seasons, including this one, we've had a 12 win season, a 10 win season and a 9 win season. Faust would have given his left nut to win 9 games in a season. With the Holtz era as a standard, it's been a disappointing 20 years or so. But we've had a whole bunch of 9 win or better seasons in those 20 years. Unfortunately we've had a few unprecedented stinkers too, like this year, 2007, the last two Tyrone years.

 

[Java65]

No comparison. The Faust years were BAD years. In our last five seasons, including this one, we've had a 12 win season, a 10 win season and a 9 win season. Faust would have given his left nut to win 9 games in a season. With the Holtz era as a standard, it's been a disappointing 20 years or so. But we've had a whole bunch of 9 win or better seasons in those 20 years. Unfortunately we've had a few unprecedented stinkers too, like this year, 2007, the last two Tyrone years.

yea, but 9 wins is meh.. nobody that isn't connected to ND is going to become a fan because we win 8 or 9 games every season with the occasional 11 win and 4 wins season mixed in. Thats teams like UNC, Northwestern, Navy etc.

I know there is no data on this but I'm willing to bet that if you polled people 30 and under the number of ND fans in that category would be at an all time low. Like I said, unless you have some ties to ND, very few are going to follow a program that finishes with 8 or 9 wins every year.

Also, we have had very few 9 win seasons and each time we were thoroughly embarrassed in a bowl game which just imprinted the impression ND is an average football team. Kelly has had 2, Weis 2, Ty 1, Davie had 2 I think and after '93 on Lou had 1. So that's what, 23 years and 8 seasons where we won 9 games? In that same time we have won a major bowl game.

 

[sullytipp]

how many times to I have to be correct until maybe you figure I see something?

Climb back under your rock ,

 

[rcawley166]

the hands of Jack Swarbrick and Brian Kelly?

Is there no voice of reason at Notre Dame to intervene? Is there no person of power to reverse this downward spiral?

 

[ivan brunetti]

No comparison. The Faust years were BAD years. In our last five seasons, including this one, we've had a 12 win season, a 10 win season and a 9 win season. Faust would have given his left nut to win 9 games in a season. With the Holtz era as a standard, it's been a disappointing 20 years or so. But we've had a whole bunch of 9 win or better seasons in those 20 years. Unfortunately we've had a few unprecedented stinkers too, like this year, 2007, the last two Tyrone years.

Well, I don't think Faust coached 13 games per season. Instead of comparing X numbers of wins or X number of losses to look at coaches from different eras, I would go with winning % per year.

 

[dagimpper1]

I think ND see's a decline in fans coming and they not only don't care they are prepping for it. Look at the stadium expansion. Sure there's the luxury suites and jumbo tron. But it's primary use is academic space. They are turning the stadium into an academic building. To me that's a sign fb is an after thought and when fans stop coming they won't care. FB died at ND when Lou left we just didn't know it.

 

[OrlandoIrish]

Perse does have a point. Outside of Ty's first year, a couple of years with Weis and the 12-0 season with Kelly ND have been very, very mediocre to poor. That's 20 years of being an average football school.

Do you really think if this goes on another 20 years ND won't become Army? A once powerful football program that very few follow anymore. I know my son who is 22 and was a HUGE ND fan, rarely watches games anymore. I offered to get tickets to see them play at NC State this year (15 mins from my house) and he wasn't interested in making the hour drive from school to go watch.

ND isn't a school that produces 5,000 alumni every year that will follow regardless of their record. If they don't win those that didn't go to ND will never become interested.

So you say your son was a HUGE Notre Dame fan. What has changed his mind int he last 22 years? At what point in those years was Notre Dame in a much better spot than they are now? He is not a fan.

 

[twalsh]

I think ND see's a decline in fans coming and they not only don't care they are prepping for it. Look at the stadium expansion. Sure there's the luxury suites and jumbo tron. But it's primary use is academic space. They are turning the stadium into an academic building. To me that's a sign fb is an after thought and when fans stop coming they won't care. FB died at ND when Lou left we just didn't know it.

That's really misleading. They are not trading stadium space for academic space, i.e the stadium is not getting smaller. In fact it's being modernized at significant expense. The academic/social additions are incremental to the project.

 

[Java65]

So you say your son was a HUGE Notre Dame fan. What has changed his mind int he last 22 years? At what point in those years was Notre Dame in a much better spot than they are now? He is not a fan.

He is still a fan but not nearly as avid. He may watch them on TV if there is nothing else going on but he doesn't make a point of it. Like I said he didn't even want to make an hour drive to see them play NC State.

I don't know if anything in particular changed him, I think it was gradual. Like I said unless you have some connection it's very difficult to maintain a high level of interest. For his entire life ND has been an average football program. I was fortunate enough to become a fan and see some really good teams in the 70's and 80's but even I don't watch every game anymore.

Last week I went hiking with my family instead of watching the Navy game and I missed a few games last year too. I'm not protesting, it's just not nearly as engaging anymore. There was a time when I would never miss a game.. period.

 

[twalsh]

He is still a fan but not nearly as avid. He may watch them on TV if there is nothing else going on but he doesn't make a point of it. Like I said he didn't even want to make an hour drive to see them play NC State.

I don't know if anything in particular changed him, I think it was gradual. Like I said unless you have some connection it's very difficult to maintain a high level of interest. For his entire life ND has been an average football program. I was fortunate enough to become a fan and see some really good teams in the 70's and 80's but even I don't watch every game anymore.

Last week I went hiking with my family instead of watching the Navy game and I missed a few games last year too. I'm not protesting, it's just not nearly as engaging anymore. There was a time when I would never miss a game.. period.

Your life is probably better. Many times in the past 40 years I have said to myself, "damn I wish I didn't care so much about this stuff".

 

[Java65]

Your life is probably better. Many times in the past 40 years I have said to myself, "damn I wish I didn't care so much about this stuff".

LOL.. yea I've learned to compartmentalize sports in general over the years. I enjoy the games, cheer / yell during the games and just leave it behind me when it's over. Win or lose my life is unchanged, all of the good things in my life and all of the troubles are still there regardless.

I told my son years ago that if the worst thing in his life was the ND never won another game, he should get down on his knees and thank God for all of his blessings.

 

[KJ23]

I'm 35. Born and raised in south bend. I used to go to every game and cared so much. The product on the field doesn't match the brand. It's expensive to go to games family of 4. Win you lose all your he time priorities change. For the Miami weekend I choose to use my 500 bucks to fly down to Florida for the weekend. Slam me all you want but watching losing football gets tiresome. I'm the age that should be instilling ND football to my kids. However, my 6 yr old son asks why ND is so bad. ???

 

[ivan brunetti]

I'm 35. Born and raised in south bend. I used to go to every game and cared so much. The product on the field doesn't match the brand. It's expensive to go to games family of 4. Win you lose all your he time priorities change. For the Miami weekend I choose to use my 500 bucks to fly down to Florida for the weekend. Slam me all you want but watching losing football gets tiresome. I'm the age that should be instilling ND football to my kids. However, my 6 yr old son asks why ND is so bad. ???

Tell you son Sagarin ranks ND 45th out of 254 (both FBS & FCS); the future is likely more bright than it may seem.

 

[onlyonenow]

That's really misleading. They are not trading stadium space for academic space, i.e the stadium is not getting smaller. In fact it's being modernized at significant expense. The academic/social additions are incremental to the project.

The Alumni have to be the ones to force change; those giving the big bucks. That is the only way it will happen outside of a complete collapse. We will beat Army but its doubtful we win any more games; and if we really stink it up against USC then its very possible Swarbrick could find himself fired. THAT is the crucial first step in real change.