I like Dabo but man I am losing respect for him
- Thread starter Zorich 88
- Start date
The whole Anti Brian Kelly crowd that slid under their rocks after Michigan, and then occasionally popped their heads out vs Pitt & USC, have gone into full Clemson fan boy mode.
The fragile egos and self described "guru" status on all things ND Coaching & Recruiting would be completely demolished should ND beat Clemson and god forbid ND & Brian Kelly win the whole enchilada!!!
10,000 hours memorizing Star Ratings, Heights, Weights, of HS Seniors and 10,000 hours of kissing the read end of inferior coaches like Harbaugh, Shaw. Brohm, Fleck etc. Would go up in smoke
These cats desperately want Dabo and Saban to save their imaginary guru status and bring back the Chronic Kranks to kiss their rings and swoon over their long winded "break downs" of ND Football.
Merry Christmas & Go Irish!!
Lol the drama...
Most of us (I should only be speaking for myself), are cheering for ND to win just as much as you are. Fanatics always make me laugh. They think it's impossible to be impressed by the accomplishments of others, while still being a fan of your own team. They think you need to be brainwashed and drunk on your own Kool Aid and can't appreciate what's going on in the sport in general.
How sad.
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I was very vocal about wanting Brian Kelly gone. Glad to be wrong and see that he's made adjustments and seems to have turned the ship around. And I won't be turning on him if we lose to Clemson in a decent way. I would love to see a NC every year, but I'm realistic. Being in contention for the playoffs/NY6 is what ND fans should expect out of BK and his ND team.
You have every right to point out what you feel/see as negatives when it comes to Kelly or anything ND. However, I have never seen one negative post about Dabo or Clemson. When posting about Dabo or Clemson or even Murray, it’s all good never bad. Even yesterday when Dabo lies about what could have caused the failed drug test, instead of calling out Dabo you say he coached on what to say.
Now you are downplaying ND fans by saying things like “it’s just a game”, “it’s not like ND is playing the Nazi’s”.
You cannot stand the fact that Kelly has proven you wrong on your judgement of him. You are shocked Kelly won coach of the year and again, for the third time in his career went 12-0.
You say you want ND to win, I say you want Kelly to fail.
What negatives do I have to say about Clemson at this point. They've been in every playoff since its inception and just beat Alabama for the Natty a couple years ago. I simply appreciate the success they've had and the coach Dabo has become.
Find me the last negative post I made about Brian Kelly. I've defended the guy for years. I called the ND fanbase out on this board when they were jumping off the bandwagon after 4-8 and tried to make people $1000 bets that ND would rebound in a big way, under Kelly... I started a thread a year later saying that I think Kelly's time is winding down in South Bend and praising him for the way he's built up the program and brought stability to Notre Dame Football.
You guys just make shit up. In the last few weeks I've been accused of saying ND would go 7-5. Never happened. Completely falsified. I've been accused of cheering for ND to lose. Also not true. And now I've become a Kelly hater, even though I've not said a single bad thing about the guy.
Anytime I post something less than "fart sniffing" about Notre Dame, I'm a hater... You can be critical and still a fan. You can be wrong at times (as I, and Brian Kelly for that matter were about Ian Book) and still be a fan.
I am not going to search out posts but you know you have posted plenty about ND needed a coaching change.
How do I remember this? Because it is the only thing you and I ever agreed on.
You even listed coaches that you preferred over Kelly.
Kelly has done a 180 in his coaching style. That’s something I did not think he could or would do. I was wrong about Kelly’s time is up at ND.
Now, you are acting like you have never posted anything negative about Kelly.
You know you wanted Kelly out awhile ago. Stop with the BS.
As far as your $1000 bet, I never saw that.
I already admitted that I posted a thread stating that it was my belief that Brian Kelly's time was winding down in South Bend and that I didn't think he'd be the guy to get us to the top of the mountain. I'm still not sure he is, although I certainly commend the incredible job he's done in reinventing himself and the programs he oversees. Certainly I've posted some opinions on potential replacements when the time comes. I've even suggested guys that I'd rather have in the job because I think it would be great to see what they can do with ND talent compared to what they have at their current jobs. Gary Patterson is an example of a guy I've admired for a long time, coaching the left overs in Texas and winning a lot games. Never have I refuted that.
My point is that I've been overwhelmingly positive about Kelly for much of his tenure in South Bend. I've commended him over the years for the wins on the field and even more so for pushing the administration to adjust their attitude and make competitive changes in areas that ND was way behind in like meal plans, early enrolees, and stadium renovations.
I'm not sitting here pretending that I've never been critical of Kelly. I'm not sitting here saying that I've praised him as the best coach in the country. I'm not sitting here saying that after Miami last year I wasn't of the mindset that Kelly may not be the guy to get ND back to national championship. I'm not pretending that I don't think that top recruits get better overall football development at a place like Alabama or Ohio State where academics are secondary and football is primary. I think that's a good for kids who have a sole focus. I don't think there is anything wrong with being obsessed with on thing and trying to be the best at it. Most of the wealthiest people in the world got to that point because they made themselves specialists and they were obsessed with being successful. At the same time, I don't have any problem with well rounded kids that have equal interest in education and football. They tend to be a better fit at Notre Dame. I've definitely said those things and I genuinely believe them.
But there is a huge difference between any of those things, and your assertion that I'm a "Kelly hater" and that I want him to fail... I've never cheered for Brian Kelly to fail.
This is what this board has become... It's just hate cesspool. If someone is critical of something, there is no viewing what they're saying in context. It's "let's assume the furthest possible extreme of them, rather than approach their concerns rationally and lets vilify them by completely making shit up that they didn't say."
So to be clear, I'm not, nor have I have been a Brian Kelly hater, or have I cheered for him or Notre Dame to fail. That's not the same as being critical of him at times, and not thinking that he'll be the next coach to win a national championship here... And for the record, if I'm wrong about that, I'll be the first person here to admit I was wrong and congratulate him for doing something I didn't think he could do... Just like I've been here for weeks saying that I was wrong about Ian Book having a ceiling as a backup on an elite team.
Finally, I offered numerous $1000 bets to people that ND would go at least 8-4 the year after going 4-8. There are many on this board that will corroborate that. It was a popular thread.
“You can be wrong at times (as I, and Brian Kelly for that matter were about Ian Book) and still be a fan.”
Ontario, in fairness to your trying to equate your and kelly’s position on book, I doubt you would’ve given book a scholarship if all you thought he’d be was a backup, Kelly thought enough of him to give him a full ride. Why he didn’t pull the trigger on him earlier, I have no idea, but I think a lot of it had to do w/ wimbush having more experience and his potential was through the roof. I know you’re getting tired of people defending book but your subtle digs like the post about had wimbush played instead, our defense may have won all our games anyway, as if book’s effect wasn’t the difference maker is the reason people come to his defense. And that comment about wimbush comes after you questioned his heart last season. So you think that a qb w/ questionable heart would’ve had similar success to book? I don’t know how you can reconcile that. Again, I know it’s a bloody beaten horse, but I just don’t get the contortions from you on the subject. I know you’re not rooting for book to fail, but I think it’s still in the back of your head that you were wrong about him & it still gets to you. I don’t question your knowledge of football, just some of your analysis & opinions at times, especially about this topic.
Ontario, in fairness to your trying to equate your and kelly’s position on book, I doubt you would’ve given book a scholarship if all you thought he’d be was a backup, Kelly thought enough of him to give him a full ride. Why he didn’t pull the trigger on him earlier, I have no idea, but I think a lot of it had to do w/ wimbush having more experience and his potential was through the roof. I know you’re getting tired of people defending book but your subtle digs like the post about had wimbush played instead, our defense may have won all our games anyway, as if book’s effect wasn’t the difference maker is the reason people come to his defense. And that comment about wimbush comes after you questioned his heart last season. So you think that a qb w/ questionable heart would’ve had similar success to book? I don’t know how you can reconcile that. Again, I know it’s a bloody beaten horse, but I just don’t get the contortions from you on the subject. I know you’re not rooting for book to fail, but I think it’s still in the back of your head that you were wrong about him & it still gets to you. I don’t question your knowledge of football, just some of your analysis & opinions at times, especially about this topic.
For me there is no emotional context to an observation. You're right, I did question Brandon's desire to take hits in order to make plays after he got banged up vs Wake Forest last year. Prior to the that he ran like a possessed person. After that game he was gun shy about running, particularly if he knew he had to take a hit. That change in philosophy, IMO, was his greatest detriment. He was never the passer we hoped he would be, but when he was running like Dak Prescott back there, being fearless and physical, the offense was nearly impossible to stop, despite its efficiency issues. By the end the year, it was a shell of itself because the quarterback was trying to be (or was being asked to be) someone he's not.
When Ian Book committed to Notre Dame my thought process was "Div 1quarterback that I could see staying all 4 years to backup Brandon Wimbush and his successor". I have no problem, as you know, admitting that I was wrong about that. You're correct that Kelly probably believed in him more than I did (hence the scholarship offer), but consider that Book was wayyyy down the list of offer candidates in that class as well. A scholarship was only offered to him because the Sanford's previous relationship with Book at Boise State, and after numerous other guys passed due to the then crowded depth chart at ND. So I'll certainly conceded that credit belongs to the ND staff for eventually noticing and offering Ian, but let's not pretend he's ever been Brian Kelly's first choice, right up to this year when he finally decided that Brandon was not going to take the offense to the next level and it was time for a change. I'm willing to concede a little bit, but with the above in mind, I think you ought to meet me in the middle some given the facts about Ian's recruitment and his first 2+ years in South Bend.
As for my comment about Brandon being good enough to win all the games this year based on the way the defense has played, that that has nothing to do with Ian. It's certainly not insulting of him. Which game(s) do you think that a Brandon Wimbush led offense would not have not scored enough points to win, with Dexter Williams back. People often forget how much of a difference Dex made in support of Ian, a luxury that Brandon didn't have in games 1, 2, and 3... Stanford? I think Brandon and Dex score more than 17 points in that game. USC? I think Brandon and Dex score more points in that game than the 18 they would have needed to win... Northwestern strikes me as the lone game that I would have questioned with Brandon as the starter. I'm pretty sure ND scores 22 points in that game with Brandon, but maybe not. It wasn't just Ian Book that improved, the entire offense did as the season went on. That's why when Book missed the FSU game, Wimbush eviscerated FSU with Dex in support.
Nobody is trying to take away from Ian's success. Brandon's a flawed, but quality Div 1 starter (13-3 record). For people to say that Ian is the reason for Notre Dame's success this year, are ignoring that it was the defense that outplayed Ian's offense, for the majority of the season. ND wasn't hanging 50 points on the people. As efficient as Book was, there were a lot of empty possessions (particularly in the Pitt, Northwestern and USC games) That's not insulting the kid. That's just an objective fact...
As I say all the time, two things can be true at the same time.
1. Ian Book can absolutely be the MVP of this team and catalyst for significant improvement and consistency on the offense. I have no issue with that argument at all, in fact, I agree with it, although Dexter Williams was an exceptional upgrade at RB after game 3 as well and his insertion into the lineup should not be taken lightly.
2. It's entirely possible that this team could have been an undefeated team with Brandon as the starter, because of the way the defense played along the way. In think the 2012 team with Golson at QB is quality comparison to that. There isn't a single game that I can point to that I think ND would have went from favourite to underdog in, had Brandon been the starter instead of Ian. Does that mean ND goes 12-0 with Brandon starting? I have no clue. Nobody does because it's a theoretical question and we deal in reality. In reality Brandon won 4 games as the starter this year and Ian won 8. Does Ian win the Michigan game as the starter? Again, I have no clue. Brian Kelly said after the Wake Forest game that is was his belief that Brandon's skill set as a runner was necessary to beat Michigan because it neutralized the pass rush from their defensive front. I didn't say that. Brian Kelly did. They were both undefeated as starters... A lot changed about the offense over those 12 starts... The constant was the championship caliber of the defense, which is why I continue to say that Ian was the team's MVP as an individual, but the recipe for ND's success this year, from games 1 through 12, started and ended with Clark Lea's defense.
As Kelly says all the time... The quarterback at Notre Dame gets too much credit when they win and too much blame when they lose. There are some that want to make Notre Dame's success about Ian Book. He's just a piece of the puzzle. An extremely valuable piece, but just a piece none-the-less.
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3 players, playing 3 different positions, from 3 different classes all tested positive for the same substance.
That's not random. That's institutional.
That's not random. That's institutional.
All lineman, or blocking tight ends. Not a surprise based on what I've personally witnessed in college football programs. Those kids require the most mass and strength gain to man their positions. They're often the guys on the most junk to achieve the size they need.
How could any ND fan “like” Dabo? He despises Notre Dame and said three years ago that ND doesn’t belong in the F4 because of they don’t play a conference title game.
I agree on the last part. But then, I don’t dislike him, but neither did I send him a Christmas card.
IIO is the biggest Dabo fan this side of the Carolina’s.
Dabo can do NO wrong in his eyes. Dabo could say ‘F’ ND and IIO would say the Clemson AD coached him to say that
Was he vying with us for a playoff spot? No surprise when a coach toes the party line.
Zorich, I don't know what to tell you man. I think he's a good coach, recruiter and he runs a program that kids like to be a part of. He gets a lot of kids to return for their senior season, much like Notre Dame does.
Brian Kelly has had multiple players / students arrested, suspended, and one even die in accident during his tenure. It doesn't make me think any different of him. I'm not a bleeding heart leftist who believes that people are responsible for the the actions and decisions of those around them. You're responsible for your own actions and your own fate, as far as you can control it.
I admire Dabo's success, as I do Brian Kelly's past successes. Both have had great careers. Dabo was influential in building a middle of a the road program into a national power. If you take issue you with the fact that I think it's impressive what he's accomplished... As per usual, I couldn't possibly care less about what you think of me.
Ontario, you’re disregarding the fact that a change was made because of deficiencies & inconsistencies in the offense (passing game) for the first three games. When an offense is playing well, that helps the defense. You have no clue how our defense would’ve held up had they been on the field more because of that lack of consistency in our passing game. And stop w/ the “no emotional context w/ an observation” nonsense. You’re human, right?
As for whether book could’ve won the Michigan game? I don’t see why not. Brandon was 12-22-170-1-1 and ran 20 times for 60 yds. Not anything spectacular, but he did made some big plays but nothing that is not within book’s capabilities. Could Brandon have thrown it at a 70% clip and keep the INTs down like book you think? I would have to say no.
I agree that book is only a piece of the puzzle. I don’t think anyone is saying that all of ND’s success is because of book, at least I’m not. Our defense has been excellent and consistent, no doubt. But the qb position (along w/ the trenches) is the most valuable piece of the puzzle and book solidified the most key position for us. His play deserves all the credit it gets.
As for whether book could’ve won the Michigan game? I don’t see why not. Brandon was 12-22-170-1-1 and ran 20 times for 60 yds. Not anything spectacular, but he did made some big plays but nothing that is not within book’s capabilities. Could Brandon have thrown it at a 70% clip and keep the INTs down like book you think? I would have to say no.
I agree that book is only a piece of the puzzle. I don’t think anyone is saying that all of ND’s success is because of book, at least I’m not. Our defense has been excellent and consistent, no doubt. But the qb position (along w/ the trenches) is the most valuable piece of the puzzle and book solidified the most key position for us. His play deserves all the credit it gets.
So I can't make the suggestion that ND would have won a lot of games with Brandon Wimbush as the starter (maybe even all of them), but you can infer that Ian Book would have beat Michigan, although Brian Kelly came out after the Wake Forest game and specifically said that his staff felt Brandon's athleticism game them a better chance to win?...
Why is it ok for you to make theoretical judgments, but I can't?
“As efficient as Book was, there were a lot of empty possessions (particularly in the Pitt, Northwestern and USC games) That's not insulting the kid. That's just an objective fact...”
This isn’t entirely true. There were not “a lot of empty possessions in those games”, we didn’t have a lot of possessions because the other team did their best to play keep away in those games.
This isn’t entirely true. There were not “a lot of empty possessions in those games”, we didn’t have a lot of possessions because the other team did their best to play keep away in those games.
Ontario, I asked you if you thought Brandon could throw it at a 70% clip and keep his INTs down the way book did. Then I cited Brandon’s numbers in the Michigan game. If we extrapolate book’s numbers and Brandon’s numbers, the answers are that Brandon probably won’t throw it at a 70% clip and keep the INTs down based on his past & book’s average numbers throughout the year were better than what Brandon’s were against Michigan. Granted, book didn’t play the caliber of Michigan’s defense but if we were to decrease his season long numbers to make up for the quality of the Michigan defense, 12-22-170-1-1 are not numbers that book couldn’t have easily reached in that game, don’t you agree? I’m accounting for a decline in books numbers against a Michigan team, you’re counting on Brandon’s numbers to jump 20% for the season, which theoretical judgment makes more sense to you?
Purs going well over the 30000 posts! How is Mike Sanford doing as a head coach?
Hold the phone. Three guys got bagged. It is not just one dude who had a “lapse” and either miscounted his “burn off” time or thought he could beat the system. Again, three not one. If only three were tested and just one was a starter that in no way means other starters would not have failed if tested.
I heard that Dabo Swinney's home was a popular stop on Halloween. He was giving our fun size ostarine.
Also, before the team had their Christmas meal yesterday, Dabo told the players the ostarine in the turkey may make them drowsy.
Thank ya, thank ya, thank ya. Remember to tip your waiters and waitresses.
It's the sacks that I'll always wonder about. BW side-stepped quite a few look-blocked rushers and I don't know if Book was quick enough on the feet.
still there needs to be a level that indicates an obvious attempt to use a ped, trace amounts wouldnot be conclusive enough to suspend.
The retest results come out next tuesday; Dabo is holding them out anyway.
Is that Dabo's decision or the NCAA's? If they are caught using ped's does that not make them ineligible?
I would assume Clemson has to certify that they are eligible before the game.
The tenor of Brent Venables press conf yesterday did not sound like a man who thinks his star player will survive this and play.
Theoretically, he could play them and then pending the retest, win the retest, appeal or forfeit the W. That would screw ND. If Appeals take a while then ND would be unjustly out.
Typical NCAA mess. The testing should have been done with sufficient retest time.
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