How many would like the option of playing in the ACC Championship

[SALittleGiant513]

1. Logistically how does that schedule work for all the other teams? Not sure how that would fit into a division based scheme the acc uses to give you championship either.

2. Why would the ACC exercise accept those terms and give ND so much power within thier conference?

3. Why Syracuse at MetLife every year? Playing in NYC does nothing more for recruiting then playing at FedEx, The Georgia Dome or whatever the Panteher

 

[TDIrish1]

Everyone will be playing 9 conference games within 5 years.

ND would be under a mandate to play USC , Stanford and Navy every year as OOC opponents as those are games they aren't giving up.

My view is it depends on what you want to be.

If you want to be a National University stay with status quo.

If you want to compete for a National Championship become a full time ACC member.

 

[IrishBlooded]

I could see the Stanford game going away if they go full ACC. I never see the USC / Navy game going away in our life times.

With Navy / USC and currently 8 conference games, that leaves 2 games to play against the B1G, B12, etc.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

They want to have a game in cali every year

 

[IrishBlooded]

And they want to stay Indy, and they want to play Navy / USC / Stanford every year, and they want the number 1 recruiting class.

Sometimes wants to line up with realities.

 

[Nocalirish]

They want to have a game in cali every year

Until the NCAA goes to an 8 team playoff that includes all conference champions the ACC offers nothing to ND football.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Ib I am notnsure why ND cant do all of those things.

 

[Izo]

8 ACC teams plus Navy ,plus Southern Cal.( still the # 1 intersectional rivalry in college football ) and then possibly 2 mid majors like a Temple ,UMass ,Army ,etc. No Stanford. No Big 10 team . No Texas. No LSU . No Georgia. No Oklahoma.

Now in the ACC ,you have a Florida State ,Clemson( who should be good again with their recruiting) Virginia Tech,Louisville ,Georgia Tech. The ACC is not as weak as people are posting.

If Southern Cal is as good as advertised ,ND will still have to go undefeated no matter , if in a conference or not.

 

[IrishBlooded]

Ib I am notnsure why ND cant do all of those things.

Math.

13 games scores better then 12 games. Staying Indy while noble, and tradition. Is an anchor not a paddle at this point. I would love to see ND stay Indy. I believe that the next handful of years will show why that isn't possible, if you want to compete for national championships. In my personal opinion in any year that ND has a single loss (or more) they lose control of their own destiny, regardless of the regular season record of others. Because other teams will be able to lose 1 regular season game, win their division, play and win their conference championship, while ND is done for the season siting at home, and be voted in above ND, ala TCU this season.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Again TCU not getting in was a byproduct of their tie just as much if not more then it was about OSU winning the B1G. If ND wants to stay national they will do everything they can to keep a game in Cali, hence why they dropped Meatchicken and MSU before Stanford.

 

[WoadBlue]

1. Logistically how does that schedule work for all the other teams? Not sure how that would fit into a division based scheme the acc uses to give you championship either.

2. Why would the ACC exercise accept those terms and give ND so much power within thier conference?

3. Why Syracuse at MetLife every year? Playing in NYC does nothing more for recruiting then playing at FedEx, The Georgia Dome or whatever the Panteher

1. I am assuming that the divisional format will be gone. The ACC proposal to deregualte conference championship games is going to pass, and that will mean that we do not have to play divisional schedules. And that will be great for variety in league games. Literally, with the current set up, UNC plays ND more often than we do Clemson or Florida St. If we have 15 members for football, and wqe play 8 league games, and each team has 2 Annual Rivals, then the other 12 league members will all be played 2 times over a 4 year period.

I think every single ACC football team will benefit from that variety.

2. It is good business for the conference long term. Wise leaders know that often we must stoop to conquer (it's the understanding behind Jesus telling the Apostles that the least shall be the greatest). The ACC shares 4 states with the SEC, which is THE monster of gigantic football. That means the SEC shadow is over us all day every day. We also now share 2 states with the revolting Big Ten (I'm counting ND and IN because you'r ein for everything but the football championship). And the Big Ten is filthy rich and Croesus and now has the same hate-love with the ACC it does with ND: it wants to take the best of us or break us.

And the ACC has liabilities that no other conference has. WE have multiple private schools. With the exceptions of ND, SC, and BYU, private schools have majopr trouble keeping even midium sized football fan bases. We have the smallest average student bodies, and not just because of the private schools. UNC, UVA, VT, NCSU, GT, and Clemson are all smaller than any state school in the Big Ten, by at least 7,000 students.

So the ACC to be wise has to do things that a conference filled wtih 40-50,000 student state flagship universities never has to consider. The reason I picked the 3 private schools I did to become ND's conference partners for barnstorming is that each will also benefit from it. Syracuse is lucky to put 42,000 is that dome. Syracuse desperately needs to become what its ad claims: New York's team. That cannot happen unless it is playing at least 1 name tam in NYC every year. And the best way to secure that is to make ND half of those games. Dook and Wake both have very small stadiums, and neither is ever going to have any shot to average even 40,000 per game. Both need a wide range of recruiting grounds. Both will benefit in recruiting from being seen playing ND in cities other than Durham and Winston-Salem.

It would not work for ND to want to have Clemson play its hOme games vs. ND away from Clemson. The Tigers average 80,000 per game, and could sell 100,000 tickets to host ND. The tigers also do not require a wider recruiting rangem because within 3 hoiurs drive of the Clemson campus is a huge amiount of top talent. Plus, Clemson has been recruiitng in FL very well back into the 1970s.

Syracuse, Dook, and Wake all will benefit from playing Home games vs ND off campus, and in more thna just more money from much larger ticket sales.

3. NYC is special for ND because of history and media. The largets number of ND subway alums live in the NYC TV market. And the reason the BIg Ten added Rutgers, which historically is a nobody in all sports, is that was the way to try to capture NYC and direct its media power toward the Big Ten. It was a shot directly at ND. ND playing Syracuse at MetLife every other year would secure the NYC TV market as being first about Irish football (in terms of college - it will remain NFL-1st). Long term, that is important to ND. It is the same basic reason the ACC basketball tournament is being played in NYC. I expect half of them to be NYC once we get the scheduling settled.

 

[topdecktiger]

1. I am assuming that the divisional format will be gone. The ACC proposal to deregualte conference championship games is going to pass, and that will mean that we do not have to play divisional schedules.

Swofford was interviewed by Warchant last week, and he said the format is not going to change. He said:

In our most recent conversations about divisions, the majority of our schools continue to prefer having divisions and having the divisions as they currently exist.

There isn't any plan to remove the divisions, because most of the schools simply don't want that.

https://floridastate.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1758831

 

[SALittleGiant513]

The NYC TV market related to basketball and football is apple and oranges. The shamrock series and the multiple games in bigger stadiums is geared towards maintaining exposure is different regions ND doesn't normally play that are recruiting hot beds and making more money for both teams. Syracuse doesn't help recruiting and isn't a natural rival. If all the other variables occurred and ND got to choose two consistent rivals they would play every year in the ACC, Cuse wouldn't be one. If there is a NE school to gain access to that market it would be BC, where they could conceivably play at Gillette if playing at a big stadium is the goal.

Also, deregulation of the champ games is to allow for conferences that have less then 12 teams to set up champ games without using divisions. If you have a huge conference you still need divisions, otherwise what would be the procedure for figuring out who would go into the ACC champ game based on your proposed scheduling method?

Finally I think you are selling the ACC short. To give ND that much power in football would require all the other schools to sign off. With the ACC's TV deal the conference is doing well financially with regards to football, not sure why they would feel the need to just hand over that much control.

 

[WoadBlue]

Swofford was interviewed by Warchant last week, and he said the format is not going to change. He said:

In our most recent conversations about divisions, the majority of our schools continue to prefer having divisions and having the divisions as they currently exist.

There isn't any plan to remove the divisions, because most of the schools simply don't want that.

https://floridastate.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1758831

It is not going to change now. If ND goes full member in football, it will change in a big way - necessarily. The primary reason Swofford began the process getting the NCAA to deregualte championship games is because of ND. There are only 2 ways we add a 16th school: 1) ND goes full football and demands a particluar school as #16 (Navy, for example); 2) a Major school like Texas or Penn St wants to join if ND is going full member in football.

Other than those 2, ND going full in football means we stop at 15, which means mathematically we cannot play balanced divisional football. And easily the best scheduling if we have 15 is what I note above: 8 league games per year: 2 Annual Rivals, the remaining 12 rotating so that each is played twice over four years.

I don't think schools now want divsions, certianly the ones we have. They just can't see a way out of them with the 14 we have. Part of that is spite from some schools for others, and part is fear of any change that might upset a balance that works OK. But what is also true is that al ACC fan bases and the football parts of their athletics departments would dearly love to play several teams less often than they do and play other teams more than they do.

For example, FSU and GT both would prefer to play one another more often. Now, with 14 teams, they don't see another for most of the way to a decade. And FSU would love to play Wake, BC, and Cuse less often. UNC would love to play Clemson and FSU more often, and we would be happy to play Pitt, VT, and Miami less often to play FSU and Clemson more often.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

How would the ACC determine the championship game participants with this 15 teams alternating schedule you are proposing?

 

[WoadBlue]

The NYC TV market related to basketball and football is apple and oranges. The shamrock series and the multiple games in bigger stadiums is geared towards maintaining exposure is different regions ND doesn't normally play that are recruiting hot beds and making more money for both teams. Syracuse doesn't help recruiting and isn't a natural rival. If all the other variables occurred and ND got to choose two consistent rivals they would play every year in the ACC, Cuse wouldn't be one. If there is a NE school to gain access to that market it would be BC, where they could conceivably play at Gillette if playing at a big stadium is the goal.

Also, deregulation of the champ games is to allow for conferences that have less then 12 teams to set up champ games without using divisions. If you have a huge conference you still need divisions, otherwise what would be the procedure for figuring out who would go into the ACC champ game based on your proposed scheduling method?

Finally I think you are selling the ACC short. To give ND that much power in football would require all the other schools to sign off. With the ACC's TV deal the conference is doing well financially with regards to football, not sure why they would feel the need to just hand over that much control.

NYC is NYC. It is easily the most important TV market for ND, in large part because such a large part of it is defauklt ND for college football. If the Big Ten having Rutgers signifcacnnlty changes that over time, it will hurt ND football.

That said, ND playing BC annually makes a lot of sense. I think if the only 2 Catholic colleges playing major college football meet annually in a conference game, it will become a mega rivalry for TV.

If deregulation were for teams with ferwe than 12, then the ACC would not have sponsored it. We already have 14 for football. WE are not doing it for the Big 12 - we are doing it so that we can make changes that work best for the ACC.

I am not selling ACC football short. People who have seen me post for a while know that I am firmly on record saying that once ND goes full member in football, the ACC will take a permanent step up, making us likely the #2 overall best football conference in the country over any time period. We already are much better than casual fans, and many ACC fans, can see. Last year we were not as good as the year before, and last year we swept the SEC 4-0 in Thanksgiving Rivalries. Several years ago when ESPN was ragging ACC football all year long, we did something that nobody else has done and that no other league is ever going to equal: our dead last team (Dook) beat an SEC bowl team on the Road.

What I am doing is showing how the ACC and its teams can help ND make the move and thus help the entire league a great deal long term. My goal is eactly like Swofford's: that the ACC becomes the best conference for all sports with high player graduation rates

 

[WoadBlue]

How would the ACC determine the championship game participants with this 15 teams alternating schedule you are proposing?

Easy. Whichever two teams have the best records meet. And as in seeding for a basketball tourmament or winninga division, you have tie breakers in place.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Easy. Whichever two teams have the best records meet. And as in seeding for a basketball tourmament or winninga division, you have tie breakers in place.

Its not easy when there aren't guaranteed H-to-H matchups, lack of common opponents, etc. I am not sure you are recognizing how impractical that set up is. That would be the biggest Mongolian cluster ever.

ND has their TV contract with NBC whether they go play in the NYC TV market or not. They are literally on TV in NYC every weekend. Also Syracuse is 250+ miles outside of NYC so why would they travel that far to play a "home" game? You are totally discounting the purpose of the shamrock series games which is not TV exposure but recruiting exposure, NYC as a recruiting regions is weak sauce, that's why they are trying to play in Texas/Florida/Chicago etc.

 

[topdecktiger]

It is not going to change now. If ND goes full member in football, it will change in a big way - necessarily. The primary reason Swofford began the process getting the NCAA to deregualte championship games is because of ND. There are only 2 ways we add a 16th school: 1) ND goes full football and demands a particluar school as #16 (Navy, for example); 2) a Major school like Texas or Penn St wants to join if ND is going full member in football.

Other than those 2, ND going full in football means we stop at 15, which means mathematically we cannot play balanced divisional football. And easily the best scheduling if we have 15 is what I note above: 8 league games per year: 2 Annual Rivals, the remaining 12 rotating so that each is played twice over four years.

I don't think schools now want divsions, certianly the ones we have. They just can't see a way out of them with the 14 we have. Part of that is spite from some schools for others, and part is fear of any change that might upset a balance that works OK. But what is also true is that al ACC fan bases and the football parts of their athletics departments would dearly love to play several teams less often than they do and play other teams more than they do.

For example, FSU and GT both would prefer to play one another more often. Now, with 14 teams, they don't see another for most of the way to a decade. And FSU would love to play Wake, BC, and Cuse less often. UNC would love to play Clemson and FSU more often, and we would be happy to play Pitt, VT, and Miami less often to play FSU and Clemson more often.

There are several problems here. The first one is that there is nothing to indicate any of this is geared toward Notre Dame. Swofford, or anyone else, hasn't made any statements like that. It's just speculation. There also isn't any indication that Notre Dame has to come in with a marquee partner. Look at the list of teams taken in the last round of expansion: Rutgers, Maryland, Utah, Colorado, Pitt, Syracuse, Missouri, and Texas A&M. None of those are big name teams. They were taken because of TV markets, not because of name value. That's where the industry is clearly headed.

That's also not even consistent with the speculation, because the argument among fans and writers has been that the ACC wanted to remove the divisions now. Nobody ever said they were waiting for Notre Dame.

Saying that the other schools don't want divisions is also speculation. Swofford clearly said the majority of teams want to keep the divisions. He didn't offer any qualifiers. He didn't say, "Most teams don't want divisions, but we can't think of anything better." He simply said most schools want the divisions the way they are. You can't add on extra meanings that weren't ever said.

 

[IrishBlooded]

ND has their TV contract with NBC whether they go play in the NYC TV market or not. They are literally on TV in NYC every weekend.

Nail on the head there. This is why I expect to see ND in the ACC around 2025. Both NBC and the ACC have media contracts that end then.

ACC Deal

ND Deal

 

[WoadBlue]

Its not easy when there aren't guaranteed H-to-H matchups, lack of common opponents, etc. I am not sure you are recognizing how impractical that set up is. That would be the biggest Mongolian cluster ever.

ND has their TV contract with NBC whether they go play in the NYC TV market or not. They are literally on TV in NYC every weekend. Also Syracuse is 250+ miles outside of NYC so why would they travel that far to play a "home" game? You are totally discounting the purpose of the shamrock series games which is not TV exposure but recruiting exposure, NYC as a recruiting regions is weak sauce, that's why they are trying to play in Texas/Florida/Chicago etc.

Actually, NJ is a major state for football recruiting. Per capita and even more so per mile, NJ produces easily the most talent in the northeast, more than enough to stock a couple of Top 25 teams. NJ turns out more talent than Chicago, and most of it is from northern NJ, which is part of the NYC TV market. Being on TV there is much less important than playing a game there - the same logic that applies to FL, GA, and TX.

That Syracuse is 250 miles from NYC and the largest pool of football talent in the northeast is all you need to know to grasp why it is imperative that Syracuse play at least 1 game per year inside the NYC TV market. Syracuse must drasw as many NYC fans for its games as possible and recruit NJ as well as possible. if Syracuse fails at that, it remain on the backburner.

The geography of Chicago and South Bend mean that ND is already in Chicago's back yard. ND playing FSU and Miami covers its FL appearacne needs. I showed how easy it would be for ND as a full member of ACC football to play in TX enough to maiximize its ability to recruit there.

 

[WoadBlue]

Its not easy when there aren't guaranteed H-to-H matchups, lack of common opponents, etc. I am not sure you are recognizing how impractical that set up is. That would be the biggest Mongolian cluster ever.

ND has their TV contract with NBC whether they go play in the NYC TV market or not. They are literally on TV in NYC every weekend. Also Syracuse is 250+ miles outside of NYC so why would they travel that far to play a "home" game? You are totally discounting the purpose of the shamrock series games which is not TV exposure but recruiting exposure, NYC as a recruiting regions is weak sauce, that's why they are trying to play in Texas/Florida/Chicago etc.

As for playing without divisions - why would that be any more an impractical mess than divisions that can never be balanced?

Here is a mess we could see with divisions: Miami and VT tie for the Coastal with 6-2 league records, with VT getting the head to head tie-breaker. But Miami finishes 10-2 with Top 25 OOC wins over Texas A&M and Nebraska and a Top 25 W over FSU, while VT finishes 8-4 with 0 Top 25 Ws because it did not play FSU or Clemson or Louisville.

Divisions are impractical, but its type of impracticality now seems familiar.

The simple fact is that playing without divisions will mean more balanced ACC schedule because everybody wil play everybody at last twice over every 4 year span.

 

[WoadBlue]

Nail on the head there. This is why I expect to see ND in the ACC around 2025. Both NBC and the ACC have media contracts that end then.

ACC Deal

ND Deal

When I was presssed to say when I thought ND would go full in football, after asserting that it was a matter of when not if, I said that there would be no annoucement before 6 years of ND playing 5 games, which would mean after ND plays every team at least twice, Home and Away and that the start date probably would be 3-5 years after the anouncement.

That's not far off from that date. And we all know that both ESPN and NBC would kill to renegotiate the deals a little early.

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Playing everyone at least twice over a 4year span does nothing to guarantee balanced schedules in any given year. In your world there could be 3 teams with one loss in conference and all lack head to heads. How do you determine the tie breaker?

If the addition is made it makes way more sense to add the 16TH team.

 

[IrishBlooded]

When I was presssed to say when I thought ND would go full in football, after asserting that it was a matter of when not if, I said that there would be no annoucement before 6 years of ND playing 5 games, which would mean after ND plays every team at least twice, Home and Away and that the start date probably would be 3-5 years after the anouncement.

That's not far off from that date. And we all know that both ESPN and NBC would kill to renegotiate the deals a little early.

I know I am just a fan. But I could see NBC making a bid for the whole ACC. Between NBC and NBCSports and online content. NBC could make a killing. Looks like a big win. But who knows.

 

[JWtruthsquad]

More special exceptions and rules for ND? I'm all for it, but let's not do half measures. If the college football world want's to make exceptions and special rules for ND, let do it right. I propose the following:

ACC:
1) ND does not have to join and become a full member.
2) ND tells the ACC (at the time of their choosing) who the 5 ACC teams are they will allow to even be on the same field as ND.
3) ND will tell the ACC when and where they will play the 5 games, with none of them being at the ACC schools campus.
4) The ACC will be allowed to call the ACC team the "home" team, but ND will select when and where they play.
5) At the end of the regular season, ND is automatically declared the winner of the conference, regardless of record.
6) As the declared conference champion, ND gets to choose if they will play in the ACCCG, and if they decide not to play they get to choose who does play, when and where.
7) If ND decides to grace the ACC with their presence in the ACCCG, they still get to pick the team they play, where and when.
8) After the ACCCG (should they choose to play in it) ND is automatically declared the winner of the ACC (regardless of the actual score) and they are offered up to the playoff committee.
9) Should ND decide they don't want to play in the ACCCG, they are still automatically declared the winner of the ACC, regardless of who they selected to play in the game or the outcome.

Playoff Committee:

They just need to learn who runs college football, period. They need to:
1) Make ND a permanent fixture in the playoff.
2) ND is in the final 4 each and every year, regardless of record.
3) ND will select the other 3 teams they want to play, where the games will be played and when.
4) In the first game, ND is declared the winner regardless of the score and moves on to the championship game.
5) For the championship game, ND decides when and where it is played.
6) ND also get to decide who they actually play for the title. if they don't want to play whoever won the other semi game they don't have to. Thay can simply pick any other team in the land to play for the NC.
7) At the conclusion of the NC game, ND is declared the NC regardless of the score.

Be honest guys, this is really what you want, isn't it?

 

[IrishBlooded]

More special exceptions and rules for ND? I'm all for it, but let's not do half measures. If the college football world want's to make exceptions and special rules for ND, let do it right. I propose the following:

ACC:
1) ND does not have to join and become a full member.
2) ND tells the ACC (at the time of their choosing) who the 5 ACC teams are they will allow to even be on the same field as ND.
3) ND will tell the ACC when and where they will play the 5 games, with none of them being at the ACC schools campus.
4) The ACC will be allowed to call the ACC team the "home" team, but ND will select when and where they play.
5) At the end of the regular season, ND is automatically declared the winner of the conference, regardless of record.
6) As the declared conference champion, ND gets to choose if they will play in the ACCCG, and if they decide not to play they get to choose who does play, when and where.
7) If ND decides to grace the ACC with their presence in the ACCCG, they still get to pick the team they play, where and when.
8) After the ACCCG (should they choose to play in it) ND is automatically declared the winner of the ACC (regardless of the actual score) and they are offered up to the playoff committee.
9) Should ND decide they don't want to play in the ACCCG, they are still automatically declared the winner of the ACC, regardless of who they selected to play in the game or the outcome.

Playoff Committee:

They just need to learn who runs college football, period. They need to:
1) Make ND a permanent fixture in the playoff.
2) ND is in the final 4 each and every year, regardless of record.
3) ND will select the other 3 teams they want to play, where the games will be played and when.
4) In the first game, ND is declared the winner regardless of the score and moves on to the championship game.
5) For the championship game, ND decides when and where it is played.
6) ND also get to decide who they actually play for the title. if they don't want to play whoever won the other semi game they don't have to. Thay can simply pick any other team in the land to play for the NC.
7) At the conclusion of the NC game, ND is declared the NC regardless of the score.

Be honest guys, this is really what you want, isn't it?

 

[no1e]

More special exceptions and rules for ND? I'm all for it, but let's not do half measures. If the college football world want's to make exceptions and special rules for ND, let do it right. I propose the following:

ACC:
1) ND does not have to join and become a full member.
2) ND tells the ACC (at the time of their choosing) who the 5 ACC teams are they will allow to even be on the same field as ND.
3) ND will tell the ACC when and where they will play the 5 games, with none of them being at the ACC schools campus.
4) The ACC will be allowed to call the ACC team the "home" team, but ND will select when and where they play.
5) At the end of the regular season, ND is automatically declared the winner of the conference, regardless of record.
6) As the declared conference champion, ND gets to choose if they will play in the ACCCG, and if they decide not to play they get to choose who does play, when and where.
7) If ND decides to grace the ACC with their presence in the ACCCG, they still get to pick the team they play, where and when.
8) After the ACCCG (should they choose to play in it) ND is automatically declared the winner of the ACC (regardless of the actual score) and they are offered up to the playoff committee.
9) Should ND decide they don't want to play in the ACCCG, they are still automatically declared the winner of the ACC, regardless of who they selected to play in the game or the outcome.

Playoff Committee:

They just need to learn who runs college football, period. They need to:
1) Make ND a permanent fixture in the playoff.
2) ND is in the final 4 each and every year, regardless of record.
3) ND will select the other 3 teams they want to play, where the games will be played and when.
4) In the first game, ND is declared the winner regardless of the score and moves on to the championship game.
5) For the championship game, ND decides when and where it is played.
6) ND also get to decide who they actually play for the title. if they don't want to play whoever won the other semi game they don't have to. Thay can simply pick any other team in the land to play for the NC.
7) At the conclusion of the NC game, ND is declared the NC regardless of the score.

Be honest guys, this is really what you want, isn't it?

Sarcasm noted. The game has evolved. This isn't the '40s anymore.