i think part of the difference in the ND game for GaTech was that you were facing a team that faces the triple option every year and has better athletes than you. For all the crap ND gets for playing Navy every year, it really isnt as easy to prepare for as many perceive it to be. I mean, Navy routinely gives teams like ND, Ohio St and S Carolina fits. Normally teams have a week, maybe 2 to prepare for the option and then they move on. So someone like Miss St has zero experience coaching against and playing against this offense and you rolled them b/c they werent well prepared. ND MENTALLY was ready to face the option and it showed. I just hope they can re create that effort week after week.
GT fan thoughts
- Thread starter johncu
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In your curiousity are you saying I'm wrong? If so I will gladly chat with you about any critique I've put to text. Let's use the immediate above you quoted me on. Are you suggesting our depth was as prepared as could be last year? Was our depth in fact deep? You suggesting BVG ran a more simple defense for our well prepared defense? You must have thought EG had enough careless mistakes to warrant a sit down before he finally got it, no?
actually I have more of a problem with the fact that no one here gave the Virginia staff and players any credit whatsoever. I've been in the game from the time I was 10 years old to the present. it's football and some times shit happens. wanna blame van gorder and say he was confusing his players go ahead. I highly doubt that's true at all. not surprising at all that nd came out flat against Virginia. the human factor is every coaches single biggest nightmare. one team coming off a big win spending the week reading their press clippings and another licking their wounds from a road beating and being told by everyone on the outside they have no chance against big, bad notre dame. I've seen it tons of times . it's why they play the games. you still didn't answer my original question. do you have a practical background in football ?
as far as golson goes I don't think you sit him unless you're convinced the next guy is ready. I've been coaching a long time and that has always been the case with every staff I've been associated with. as a player too. now injuries are different. someone has to play. coaches do what they think is proper in the moment to put their team in the best position to succeed. it doesn't always work out because there is an opponent and they're doing the same thing. I've yet to see a game won on paper. coaches don't have the luxury of hindsighting the previous game. grade the film, practice hard to clean up mistakes and get ready for the next opponent. let the fans debate over whose "fault" it was when something happened they didn't like.
So your saying Jacob Matuska @ DT and Greer Martini @ MLB was a recipe for success vs USC last yr --your inferring that ND given that situation could have won that football game ?
Basically after the game Kelly thanked the USC coach for not trying to score 70 because they could have .
Are you inferring that a depleted team due to injuries is not in fact a reason for losing a game it is an excuse --
As echo walker asked - what is your qualification as a player or former athlete to suggest that not having your best players in a game is not a reason for losing a game .
Also in your humble opinion is there ever a reason for losing a game say if for example your fourth string QB throws a INT with1 minute left in a one possession game is that a reason for losing that game or an excuse ?
I believe that there are weak excuses for losing a football game not having half your starters on defense is clearly not one of them .
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UMM NO!
I said nothing of the sort. I've never one time suggested they would have won any of those games. Having said that are you telling me that the coaching staff did everything it could to put the participating players in the best possible position to succeed? I clearly do not think they did and if the coaches would be honest they would be the first to tell you that our depth lacked in both quality and experience. Did you see a defense albeit depleted looking confused and out of sorts regardless of who was in there? I did. Would you say Kelly stayed with EG too long after clearly displaying his inept ability to take care of the football. Repeatedly. ? I would say so.
While I agree that injuries did not help the cause but treating it like it was the only downfall of the season is ridiculous and ignorant at best. A little more mirror time for the coaching staff would hopefully learn some lessons from that season.
BTW what blows about a large percentage of fan bases especially fans who gravitate to these forums is that they never acknowledge nor have any comprehension what goes into building a top 15 program in college football . They sit their in their underwear after 7 beers on a sat nite and bury a HC for one play call that they perceived to be a mistake and in some cases call for his job for that mistake .
There are plenty of definitions of " getting " the big picture -- doing what I previously stated is not one of them .
So are you saying losing Schmidt Day Jones Riggs was not the major reason for the losses the last month of the season ? It was the coaches not spending enough mirror time trying to figure out how to pull a rabbit out of a hat w third string freshmen -- is that what your saying ?
Please let me know whay Kelly and Van Gorder could have done during mirror time ?
You clearly have a hair across your butt for BVG. The ND defense is giving up a total 17pts.per game. That is Damm good.
I was keeping up with one of your talented freshman running backs (Nathan Cottrell) who tore his knee up the first week of camp. His father was my youth minister growing up. I taught him in Sunday School and watched him grow up in Knoxville, TN. The kid has AMAZING speed (4.34). Hopefully he fully recovers and has a successful career.
I want BVG to be that be all end all D coordinator. I love ND football but if you guys are sold on the defense so far then its pure kool aid speak.
If you look back at my posts involving the defense this year you will see that I clearly state the secondary has yet to be really challenged. Only a minor challenge from Virginia and how did that go for them? A lot of completed balls that not only should have been deflected down but rather intercepted. Georgia Tech doesn't throw so that is still a no verdict.
The opener against Texas ....again no challenge to the secondary.
But what we have seen so far is one good outing against a tentative Texas offense very green...a very poor secondary performance against a wing it on a prayer UVA team....and a no challenge to the secondary from a GT squad.
In that UVA game we got a see a very confused running around and hesitant Irish defense. Not a good recipe for fast defensive play and it almost cost them. So you are going to blame the confusion AGAIN on what? Backups that weren't playing because the starters were playing....???
I'm sorry guys, I call it how I see it no matter if I like it or not.
OH, ANd yes..I'm sorry but Jaylon needs to be used in different ways. Rushing the passer more would be nice. He can't be blocked.
What other ways do you want to use Jaylon? He does rush the QB already.
I wasn't impressed by the defense either vs. Virginia, but I don't think its fair to say those passes should have been picked. Those underthrown ducks are some of the hardest passes to defend.
I'm not particularly sold on the defense either. Texas and GT both played very poorly.
I think they are utilizing smith perfectly. he is very effective within the framework of the defense. and yes he can be blocked. everyone can be blocked. Lawrence taylor got blocked, so did ross browner. way more to the game than rushing the passer. smith plays all phases pretty well. again you haven't answered the question. football resume ?
Some people will complain about anything. All of you who are coaching from the bleachers, just chill a little and lets see how the team develops.
I'll address all three above. First on this one...you didn't see pre snap confusion against VA? Really? Then we watched two different games. I saw players running to cover a guy at the last second ..ball getting snapped before they get there. Over and over. Virginia did NOT run a hurry up snap the ball before they are ready offense. Yet other posters along with myself saw a ND defense running around ...or NOT SET mind you...repeatedly. Just like last year.
As far as Jaylon again guys think about what I said. He can't be blocked. That is figure of speech. Yes he can be blocked but to address the above poster who magically has seen Jaylon rush the passer this year I ask you please tell me when. I count twice. One resulted in a safety in which he lined up in the three point and rushed. No mistaking he was rushing. Got a bad jump and still blew past the tackle.
The other was an all out blitz.
Outside of that I've not seen Jaylon rush the passer.
How many defensive snaps has he been on the field for and only rushed twice? ? ?
Do you think he might have got to the VA qb if he would have rushed? Maybe once or twice before that prayer pass was launched??
We'll never know.
UVA ran lots of motion. You move with them or you will get caught short. Kelly said in his presser that there were very few mental mistakes just that the guys did a lousy job covering and playing the ball. There was one play where Tranquill and Smith ran into each other. That stuff can happen.
He rushed a couple times vs. Texas and made plays against blown protections. Not much special there. I don't remember him rushing much vs. Virginia. He was too busy beating offensive lineman and tackling the RB for minimal yardage on screen plays. He rushed a couple times vs GT, but that's not a team you blitz much against and he had a blown assignment on one of those.
If you mean you want to see him with his hand on the ground more, I wouldn't say the coaches are doing a bad job. He has had his hand on the ground, and he's a linebacker anyway. Just because someone is a good athlete, doesn't mean they'll be good rushing the passer from a DL spot.
I think the jury in still out on BVG.
If you mean you want to see him with his hand on the ground more, I wouldn't say the coaches are doing a bad job. He has had his hand on the ground, and he's a linebacker anyway. Just because someone is a good athlete, doesn't mean they'll be good rushing the passer from a DL spot.
I think the jury in still out on BVG.
The motion is not what I speak of. I'm speaking by and large after they are set, or rather no motion. Guys switching, changing spots while the ball got snapped. Repeatedly. Would you say our secondary was in good position in that game? If you answer no, then why? Well one thing that does not help is uncertainty which looking to me was often the case and in turn our secondary IMO was not in optimum defending position post snap....because of uncertainty pre snap.
UVA was the only game to date the secondary was even remotely challenged. I don't care what Kelly said....in your opinion how well did our secondary do in that game? It's a point blank question. No excuses. No yeah but. Did our secondary play well or poorly in their lone challenged contest to date?
He had his hand on the ground once. Against Texas. That was a safety and probably would have been in lieu of Jaylon. At no other point was his hand down and that is fine. He can rush standing up and it doesn't have to be a blitz. Run a few 3-4 sets for him to just go after it..which ultimately becomes a 5 man front because you blitz both outside guys. It's not really a blitz to me because they are rushing, everyone knows it.
I would like to see BVG get a little more creative allowing Jaylon to get after the qb. Atleast more than twice total times to date. He rushed the qb ZERO times against Virginia. Unacceptable IMO. Zero.
GT there was no need to rush.
As the season goes we will see how he is utilized against the more pass happier teams. But so far against the one semi passing team he came after the qb all of zero times.
Our run defense has been very good so far. However, I have to agree with 88ND that our pass defense really hasn't been tested yet, and looked kind of mediocre against UVa, which just got thrashed last night by Boise State.
However, looking over our schedule, we don't actually play that many great passing teams this year. USC and Clemson are probably the only two that have what would be considered very good passing attacks.
However, looking over our schedule, we don't actually play that many great passing teams this year. USC and Clemson are probably the only two that have what would be considered very good passing attacks.
Having one or two standup lineman doesn't mean they are blitzing and everyone knows it. It sounds like you want to see Jaylon rushing the QB. That's fine, but its not fair to say the coaches are underutilizing him. You don't see many programs using their linebacker as a regular pass rusher anyway and we still rush him at times.
You just have a different mindset than the coaches, doesn't make either of you right or wrong (I prefer the scheme and philosophy ND played under Diaco).
I will say this again for those that think GT didn't 'test' the DBs - GT went 8 for 24 passing against ND. And, it was a much worse percentage in the first 58 minutes. GT is a good passing team that has sent a lot of receivers to the NFL the last few years. The Irish DBs were covering well and batting balls away in the air the whole game. Anyone stuck on the UVA performance and wants to belittle the Irish DBs just wants to see the worst in this team, IMO.
So obviously your ego is such that you come on an anonymous message board and posture yourself as knowing more about defense than BVG . Ok - where have you coached ? Where do you coach now ?
BTW - as far as game planning goes Texas has scored 90 pts since the game v ND -- Va had 20 yds at the end of the 1st qtr -- Ga Tech game was a clinic
re secondary play -
It is Todd Lyghts responsibility to make sure our secondary is playing the ball effectively while it is in the air . Mistakes were made in the UVA game -- those mistakes are clearly within the purview of Todd Lyght .IF in fact these were mistakes made in Todd's prepping of these kids or maybe just maybe our secondary went to sleep on a few assignments . Kelly claims the latter
If you want to bang away at your keyboard and bitch about a guy who held Tex and Ga Tech to 10 combined pts for 119 minutes -- let the masturbation begin - me ? Im heading to the gym and working out for 90 minutes then will enjoy the ball game later today .
BTW if you construe every mistake made on the field of play as a coaching mistake you in all likelihood are a nitwit who has never played a sport at a competitive level .
Example - we run CJ Procise of right guard on 3rd and 1 - a reasonable call correct ? However Steve Elmer on the play slips while trying to make his block and the DT he was assigned to block stuffs the play .
Who was responsible for that play not working ? If you say Brian Kelly you are a ****ing clown
Further to my example - if Brian Kelly had the benefit of knowing that Elmer would in fact blow his assignment do you think he would have run that play ?
You see what the armchair coaches lose sight of day after day week after week is that we as fans have the benefit of hindsight when judging these games . I recall one post after the Texas game where a poster went on a rant about Kelly having Josh Adams on the field after Adams missed a hand off from Zaire
A ) poster was a dick
B ) If Kelly knew before the play that Adams would in fact run in the wrong direction do you think he would have called his number on that play ?
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Echo - Thanks for bringing some rational thought to this thread.
It's amazing how many on here, after a loss or a close win when a blowout was expected, have a reaction of firing someone or pulling someone's scholly. They sit behind their computer and think their words make them some kind of expert. Like you said; "sometimes shit happens", but there are some that don't want to hear that.
I don't pretend to be an expert. Sometimes I will actually call one of my best friends in Michigan who has coached high school ball for over 30 years and ask him for explanations of what he thinks went wrong. He knows.
I'm an optimist and I place my trust in the coaching staff. Some call me a Pollyana and that's fine. There are a couple of those posters I've put on ignore and it makes my world so much better.
So now you are changing your argument to how the secondary played. They played like crap but it wasn't because they were confused. Read more and post less. We get it you don't like BVG. I don't think he gives a rats ass what you think.
You must have a keyboard at the gym for that gibberish.
I will address one thing my fine forum pal.....your 3rd and one scenario and procise gets the ball I would celebrate that. Why would I? Because we didn't go empty set and we just put our team in the best possible chance to succeed. If someone out athletes our guys I have no problem with that. And that does, can, and will happen. But putting our best foot forward is all you can do. Either side of ball.
Nothing in my argument changed. Did the defense against VA look like shades of last year. ? Yes or no. It did. Period. So you keep on drinking the kool aid and I will call it like I see it.
Again...I want BVG to be the all world coach. After we go through some better material we will see.
88, why have you never replied to my posts that GT went 8 for 24 - 24 effing attempts? You keep saying that ND can't defend the pass but they went 8 for 24 against one of the best passing games in the nation. Please tell me why you still believe ND cannot defend the pass.
So, you are living in last year (UVA this year)...ok. Now I see you for who you are. You want to be right and your mind is made up. Will you be going further back than last year to prove your point?
Omfg....enough already. Where in any of these posts did you read me clearly state ND can't defend the pass? What I said ....REPEATEDLY ....was that the one time the secondary was challenged this year it didn't go so well. Do you want me to say that when VA challenged our secondary we rose to the occasion?
Oh and GT ....GT comes off the bus running the football. We played great assignment football against them. GT going 8-24 on passing is more their doing than ours. They are not a passing team. They just aren't. They went 6-21 today against Duke. Was Duke's secondary the reason or GT can't throw very well? I think you know the answer.
Dude, you seem hell bent on putting this team down - what is your reason for that? Really, why are you so angry with anyone saying the Irish are doing well at 4-0? Are you just trying to sit back and say "I told you so" sometime down the line? Really, I do not get your thinking and wonder how you constantly put this team down and still call yourself a fan - can you please clarify?
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