GT fan thoughts

[johncu]

I needed some time to process what happened Saturday before posting, because what your defense did just doesn't happen. Here are my thoughts, for what it's worth:

I'm no Notre Dame fan by any stretch. but the truth is that the media (and even some of you) are not giving Notre Dame enough credit. The old "triple option doesn't work against elite talent" trope has been disproven repeatedly, but for some reason we keep hearing it. Georgia Tech rushes for 300-400 yards every year against Georgia, even in losses. We were completely unstoppable against Mississippi State, Georgia, Florida State, and just about every team on our schedule last year, with the losses falling squarely on our mediocre defense. Obviously we have off days, but at some point we've run all over fast teams, we've run all over big teams, we've run all over teams with good coaches, we've run over good DL's, good LB's, good DB's, and everything else. There's no blueprint or no special matchup - the offense is just good, and you have to be better to stop it.

Notre Dame was better on Saturday. A lot better. Georgia Tech had scored almost 200 straight points without even having attempted a field goal, even dating back to the UGA game last year. We almost never go 3 and out. Notre Dame repeatedly made both of those things happen, and our players didn't know how to handle it. You made our elite QB look like a scrub until the final minute, and that just doesn't happen.

I don't know what happened against Virginia last weekend, but the team I saw beat Georgia Tech was really, really good. When you see what Georgia Tech's offense does against the Florida State's and Georgia's of the world this season, you may start to fully understand how impressive what your team did was. I'd rank Notre Dame #2 in the nation right now, based on resume, with Ole Miss being the only team with a legit argument to be ahead of them.

 

[Johnnie82]

Thanks for the objective analysis. Sometimes we need to hear from someone who is on the outside of our little world.

 

[Irish Grandeur]

Good post johncu. I went to the game and it is so different in person than watching on TV. Seeing the full-game perspective, the Irish were executing at every level on defense to the point there was really no place for GT to go. They used the sidelines very well and took away the cut back lanes. Speed on defense is something ND has but it was the execution that shut GT down.

 

[fencebusters]

Just a side note. Make note that GT lost pretty much ALL of their skill players from last year. The only returning skill player was Thomas.

 

[88ND]

what happened against VA was BVG complicating things. Over complicating if you will. There is no need for his ridiculous schemes every week. He needs to understand these are collegiate athletes who can't study film for 8 hours then go practice for two more. He is not facing Tom Brady every week. Let the athletes be athletes more and simplify some of that defense....WHICH IS WHAT HAPPENED AGAINST GT.

Thanks for posting and I bet you guys will run through most of your competition. Not sure you will be able to stop a lot but that will depend on your ball control which will win you most of your contests.

Good luck

 

[continually35forever]

I needed some time to process what happened Saturday before posting, because what your defense did just doesn't happen. Here are my thoughts, for what it's worth:

I'm no Notre Dame fan by any stretch. but the truth is that the media (and even some of you) are not giving Notre Dame enough credit. The old "triple option doesn't work against elite talent" trope has been disproven repeatedly, but for some reason we keep hearing it. Georgia Tech rushes for 300-400 yards every year against Georgia, even in losses. We were completely unstoppable against Mississippi State, Georgia, Florida State, and just about every team on our schedule last year, with the losses falling squarely on our mediocre defense. Obviously we have off days, but at some point we've run all over fast teams, we've run all over big teams, we've run all over teams with good coaches, we've run over good DL's, good LB's, good DB's, and everything else. There's no blueprint or no special matchup - the offense is just good, and you have to be better to stop it.

Notre Dame was better on Saturday. A lot better. Georgia Tech had scored almost 200 straight points without even having attempted a field goal, even dating back to the UGA game last year. We almost never go 3 and out. Notre Dame repeatedly made both of those things happen, and our players didn't know how to handle it. You made our elite QB look like a scrub until the final minute, and that just doesn't happen.

I don't know what happened against Virginia last weekend, but the team I saw beat Georgia Tech was really, really good. When you see what Georgia Tech's offense does against the Florida State's and Georgia's of the world this season, you may start to fully understand how impressive what your team did was. I'd rank Notre Dame #2 in the nation right now, based on resume, with Ole Miss being the only team with a legit argument to be ahead of them.

Great post thank you - re Virginia we went into the red zone on first 3 possessions and shut V down on their first two possessions and I think a lack of focus set in esp on defense where some real junk was completed for key 3rd down conversions . That let Va and their fans get into it and we got stuck in momentum shift . We play VA again ND wins by 14 +

I also think when ND went up 12-0 early maybe some started to look to the Tech game a bit -- bottom line our secondary was putrid w the ball in the air - putrid . That has been addressed .

Kelly mentioned that the secondary made a lot of eye assignment mistakes getting caught cheating on the run and losing assignment responsibilities on VA receivers -- fortunately it didn't cost us the game .

 

[tigertownbound]

johncu - alot of what you said had some validity to it. However, the bottom line is, the only reason GT beat Clemson last year was because Watson left the game on the first drive (ACL). If you have any objection then let me remind you that Cole Stoudt entered the game and immediately threw a pick 6, followed by pick 6, followed by another pick. Final score: 28-6 Don't discredit the win, but you all definitely had some luck on your side. GT is not as 'elite' as your entitled post makes it seem.

 

[rocketfuel25]

johncu - alot of what you said had some validity to it. However, the bottom line is, the only reason GT beat Clemson last year was because Watson left the game on the first drive (ACL). If you have any objection then let me remind you that Cole Stoudt entered the game and immediately threw a pick 6, followed by pick 6, followed by another pick. Final score: 28-6 Don't discredit the win, but you all definitely had some luck on your side. GT is not as 'elite' as your entitled post makes it seem.

Sounds like sour grapes, injuries happen, we've lost our starting QB, RB and TE for the season, also a very good DT in Jones. GT is just very good at what they do, its not as if Clemson was their only big victory, so to say its only because of injury is very short sighted.

 

[tigertownbound]

Sounds like sour grapes, injuries happen, we've lost our starting QB, RB and TE for the season, also a very good DT in Jones. GT is just very good at what they do, its not as if Clemson was their only big victory, so to say its only because of injury is very short sighted.

You're absolutely right - they do happen. But ND is significantly deeper at QB than Clemson was last year. And considering Watson threw 2 picks all of last season (not a full season mind you), it was majorly due that particular injury. There is no other way to put it. The numbers do not lie. lol With that said. I can't wait for our matchup (Clem vs. ND) on the 3rd. I expect an electric atmosphere with impressive play on both sides. Playoff implications all over this one.

 

[IrishBlooded]

johncu - alot of what you said had some validity to it. However, the bottom line is, the only reason GT beat Clemson last year was because Watson left the game on the first drive (ACL). If you have any objection then let me remind you that Cole Stoudt entered the game and immediately threw a pick 6, followed by pick 6, followed by another pick. Final score: 28-6 Don't discredit the win, but you all definitely had some luck on your side. GT is not as 'elite' as your entitled post makes it seem.

That's an awful lot of typing to say that someone lost.

 

[tigertownbound]

That's an awful lot of typing to say that someone lost.

And you sir, will be the first one I reach out to after Clemson gets the W.

 

[tigertownbound]

That's an awful lot of typing to say that someone lost.

In all seriousness I expect a nail-biter. Maybe Gameday will make an appearance, as I personally do not think they will travel to Athens after the Bama loss. Despite the injuries to both Clemson and ND, the depth and youth of each program will shine on the national stage.

 

[johncu]

johncu - alot of what you said had some validity to it. However, the bottom line is, the only reason GT beat Clemson last year was because Watson left the game on the first drive (ACL). If you have any objection then let me remind you that Cole Stoudt entered the game and immediately threw a pick 6, followed by pick 6, followed by another pick. Final score: 28-6 Don't discredit the win, but you all definitely had some luck on your side. GT is not as 'elite' as your entitled post makes it seem.

I don't recall saying that Georgia Tech was an elite team last year. In fact, I said our defense was mediocre, and that was being nice. However, our offense was the epitome of elite. #1 nationally in several major categories, and the FEI efficiency rating was the best in modern history, slightly above Oregon from a few years ago. That is not an opinion, it is a fact.

You may have also noticed that I did not even mention Clemson in my post. Clemson's defense last year was one of the best in CFB over the last 10 years, so it's no surprise that they had some success slowing down Georgia Tech. In fact, Clemson is the only team that has slowed GT regularly with some incredible DL talent and good coaching under Venables. I expect Notre Dame to struggle to move the ball in a couple weeks, and Georgia Tech probably will, too, if we don't shore up some uncharacteristic mental mistakes we made Saturday. Good luck in a couple weeks - we need the ACC to remain relevant in the CFP discussion!

 

[NDSMC78]

I don't recall saying that Georgia Tech was an elite team last year. In fact, I said our defense was mediocre, and that was being nice. However, our offense was the epitome of elite. #1 nationally in several major categories, and the FEI efficiency rating was the best in modern history, slightly above Oregon from a few years ago. That is not an opinion, it is a fact.

You may have also noticed that I did not even mention Clemson in my post. Clemson's defense last year was one of the best in CFB over the last 10 years, so it's no surprise that they had some success slowing down Georgia Tech. In fact, Clemson is the only team that has slowed GT regularly with some incredible DL talent and good coaching under Venables. I expect Notre Dame to struggle to move the ball in a couple weeks, and Georgia Tech probably will, too, if we don't shore up some uncharacteristic mental mistakes we made Saturday. Good luck in a couple weeks - we need the ACC to remain relevant in the CFP discussion!

GaTech went 10-2 in the regular season, lost by 2 to FSU in the ACCCG, and then whipped Mississippi St. in the Orange Bowl. That's a pretty good year no matter how you slice it.

 

[88ND]

I also think when ND went up 12-0 early maybe some started to look to the Tech game a bit -- bottom line our secondary was putrid w the ball in the air - putrid . That has been addressed .

Not starting a pissing contest but how on earth can you say it has been addressed? It has been acknowledged ... but GT does NOT throw anywhere well enough to make the statement our secondary issues have been addressed. We will find out real quick what we have in the secondary come Death Valley week.

 

[IRISHJD98]

I needed some time to process what happened Saturday before posting, because what your defense did just doesn't happen. Here are my thoughts, for what it's worth:

I'm no Notre Dame fan by any stretch. but the truth is that the media (and even some of you) are not giving Notre Dame enough credit. The old "triple option doesn't work against elite talent" trope has been disproven repeatedly, but for some reason we keep hearing it. Georgia Tech rushes for 300-400 yards every year against Georgia, even in losses. We were completely unstoppable against Mississippi State, Georgia, Florida State, and just about every team on our schedule last year, with the losses falling squarely on our mediocre defense. Obviously we have off days, but at some point we've run all over fast teams, we've run all over big teams, we've run all over teams with good coaches, we've run over good DL's, good LB's, good DB's, and everything else. There's no blueprint or no special matchup - the offense is just good, and you have to be better to stop it.

Notre Dame was better on Saturday. A lot better. Georgia Tech had scored almost 200 straight points without even having attempted a field goal, even dating back to the UGA game last year. We almost never go 3 and out. Notre Dame repeatedly made both of those things happen, and our players didn't know how to handle it. You made our elite QB look like a scrub until the final minute, and that just doesn't happen.

I don't know what happened against Virginia last weekend, but the team I saw beat Georgia Tech was really, really good. When you see what Georgia Tech's offense does against the Florida State's and Georgia's of the world this season, you may start to fully understand how impressive what your team did was. I'd rank Notre Dame #2 in the nation right now, based on resume, with Ole Miss being the only team with a legit argument to be ahead of them.

Gracious post. I hope you guys win a bunch of games this year, and I'm sure you will.

 

[hoopsstar12]

Thomas should be a Heisman candidate. ND defense kicked the cr ** out of him but he kept fighting back. A holding call on GT may have swung the game. Historically GT drops a game or 2 in the beginning of the season then finishes strong. They have some new faces this year which need time to gel.
Tranquill was a huge loss. I think if ND loses more players we will struggle in big games.
USC will be the toughest game. I am not worried about Clemson. It's all about Kellys play calling and our defensive backs using the right techniques.

 

[SwlaDukie]

I think the Clemson and Stanford games will be the toughest games left on the schedule due to locations and the officiating. If Stanford some how runs the table which is possible, the Pac 12 stands to lose alot from a loss. USC is always tough, but ND should be motivated for this game more so than any other. Its at home and its the biggest recruiting day of the year. What they did to a half staffed ND team last year was embarrassing. But if someone is ready to step up at Tight end and Robinson/Hunter can get involved as viable threats; ND will be in the playoffs.

 

[DillonDomer]

I was very nervous about GT. They way their offence can control a game can be demoralizing to defenses. I thought our Int in the end zone and missed FG could have been devastating, but the D held it together until the last 2. We had an opportunity for a 4 and out on that second to last drive. That one play and GT ends up with about 100 less yards and 15 less points. It just shows how razor thin margins can be between winning and losing.

I am not convinced Stanford or Clemson at the highest quality this year. They will certainly be a challenge, but I don't think they are world beaters. The Stanford game will be up to our D line and their O line. We can score points, it will be our ability to slow/stop them. Clemson appears to have lost a lot from last year - I know it is a tough environment, but ND will come in healthier and more confident assuming an easy UMass game.

 

[IrishBlooded]

In all seriousness I expect a nail-biter. Maybe Gameday will make an appearance, as I personally do not think they will travel to Athens after the Bama loss. Despite the injuries to both Clemson and ND, the depth and youth of each program will shine on the national stage.

Your post just seemed sour grapes. You lost, let them say 'scoreboard' and move on. It ain't like GTech and Clemson aren't going to play again, and Clemson isn't going to have their wins as well. Injuries, turnovers, fumbles, missed assignments, etc. That is all part of the game. And no matter what we say on a message board it doesn't change the outcome of the game. I actually had ND 10-2 going into this season with losses at Clemson and against USC. If they win those, great. If not. The sun will rise the following day

 

[coolirish9]

good post from you johncu. to answer the question you had about us looking different in the Virginia game coach Kelly today in his presser was saying that if his irish team comes out focused and ready to play that they can beat any team in the country but that they could also lose to a lot of teams if they don't come ready to play

 

[tigertownbound]

I don't recall saying that Georgia Tech was an elite team last year. In fact, I said our defense was mediocre, and that was being nice. However, our offense was the epitome of elite. #1 nationally in several major categories, and the FEI efficiency rating was the best in modern history, slightly above Oregon from a few years ago. That is not an opinion, it is a fact.

You may have also noticed that I did not even mention Clemson in my post. Clemson's defense last year was one of the best in CFB over the last 10 years, so it's no surprise that they had some success slowing down Georgia Tech. In fact, Clemson is the only team that has slowed GT regularly with some incredible DL talent and good coaching under Venables. I expect Notre Dame to struggle to move the ball in a couple weeks, and Georgia Tech probably will, too, if we don't shore up some uncharacteristic mental mistakes we made Saturday. Good luck in a couple weeks - we need the ACC to remain relevant in the CFP discussion!

Classy post. You are absolutely correct.

 

[DUCKY1221]

You're absolutely right - they do happen. But ND is significantly deeper at QB than Clemson was last year. And considering Watson threw 2 picks all of last season (not a full season mind you), it was majorly due that particular injury. There is no other way to put it. The numbers do not lie. lol With that said. I can't wait for our matchup (Clem vs. ND) on the 3rd. I expect an electric atmosphere with impressive play on both sides. Playoff implications all over this one.

We are considerably deeper at AB? We are playing a redshirt freshman that was 1-5 in the spring game with -2 yards.
You're a moron.

 

[stu4don]

Classy post. I hope we both go undefeated from here on! We beat a damn good team on Saturday. And, I'm glad we got you guys earlier rather than later in the season. Coach PJ is a damn good one -- up there with Coach Dantonio -- can you imagine those guys with USC talent?!

Go Irish.

 

[G_a_r_y]

And you sir, will be the first one I reach out to after Clemson gets the W.

I figured it wouldn't take long to open your big mouth.

 

[NDCap]

Which ND team is better ? This one going to Clemson in 2 weeks or last years team going to FSU ?

 

[88ND]

Which ND team is better ? This one going to Clemson in 2 weeks or last years team going to FSU ?

By far this team. Difference being....speed at the RB spot. CJ has the ability to turn that 5 yard run into a 15+ or take it all the way. No disrespect to Folston but sometimes you just don't know until someone gets thrown to the wolves and how they respond. Sometimes it is a down grade but in this case an upgrade. Jaylon is a year older and they are not wasting him on every single play sticking him at the ILB spot every play. I still wish they would move him around more and allow him to come off the edge after the passer.....something not seen since the Texas game and in that game I believe he only rushed twice..once being on the blitz.
Ok so against GT he has to play disciplined football but what happened against VA?
Absolutely ridiculous BVG can't figure a way out to let him pin his ears back and go go go after the passer. There is no tackle in the country that could block him. He is so quick and his closing speed I've not seen on a ND defense since 1988 or even possibly ever.

 

[floridairish]

The team last year got run in circles by UNC's No Huddle Offense and the QB# 5 had just turned the ball over multiple times versus Syracuse and UNC. This team is playing much better football. Zaire and Kizer have one turnover in 3 games, Texas ran No Huddle and ND went to a default defense and did not get caught substituting players, Coach Kelly did a great job delegating Option to Bobby Elliot and BVG did not become an ego guy and accepted the help, The 2015 ND team beats last years team by 2 TD's because of better QB play and better defensive communication. And this years team beats the 2012 ND Team by 3 TD's because of better players

 

[thehellyousay]

classy post OP...

I will say that this was the best defensive effort (for 59 minutes anyway) that I've seen from this team since 2012... I don't think it's a big secret how to defend the GT attack, but having the athletes and discipline to execute it is a different matter entirely - there are plenty of teams that had the right idea but got steamrolled anyway...

I'll be pulling for GT for the rest of the year, partially for selfish reasons, but I also think it's fun to watch - nothing like seeing a good D1 defense lose its collective mind, (especially when it's not your team)...

 

[continually35forever]

By far this team. Difference being....speed at the RB spot. CJ has the ability to turn that 5 yard run into a 15+ or take it all the way. No disrespect to Folston but sometimes you just don't know until someone gets thrown to the wolves and how they respond. Sometimes it is a down grade but in this case an upgrade. Jaylon is a year older and they are not wasting him on every single play sticking him at the ILB spot every play. I still wish they would move him around more and allow him to come off the edge after the passer.....something not seen since the Texas game and in that game I believe he only rushed twice..once being on the blitz.
Ok so against GT he has to play disciplined football but what happened against VA?
Absolutely ridiculous BVG can't figure a way out to let him pin his ears back and go go go after the passer. There is no tackle in the country that could block him. He is so quick and his closing speed I've not seen on a ND defense since 1988 or even possibly ever.

Don't know about beating 2012 team by 21 but I do know that we have not seen the full capabilities of this offense yet . As I said a few days ago Hunter and Jones are big time talents and they are laying in waiting for their time on the stage .

 

[Grotto_22]

Great post. We have talent to be #2, but unfortunately about 6-7 of those players are injured. I just dont see us being able to hang at #2 all year. I hope I am wrong.

 

[melstew]

Great post BVG, now get back to preparing for UMass.

 

[melstew]

DP

 

[mbd11]

BVG has taken his lumps around here, but he did a great coaching job last week. That defense was well-prepared for the Tech option, and they played great.

 

[88ND]

Don't know about beating 2012 team by 21 but I do know that we have not seen the full capabilities of this offense yet . As I said a few days ago Hunter and Jones are big time talents and they are laying in waiting for their time on the stage .

Everyone keeps saying about Jones but first thing he needs to do is learn how to catch. If he would catch I bet the coaching staff throws him another.

 

[continually35forever]

Great post. We have talent to be #2, but unfortunately about 6-7 of those players are injured. I just dont see us being able to hang at #2 all year. I hope I am wrong.

Kelly said a couple days ago that the margin for error now is very small due to injuries - he also said that the injuries last year derailed our season --

infantile shit heads pecking away on keyboards don't want to hear that but hey reality is hard

the local D Bag club is screaming " no excuses no excuses "

Hopefully we stay healthy and can max out this season -- BTW if Kelly gets this team to the playoffs he is THE BEST coach in college football THE BEST !!

 

[88ND]

Well there is a revelation. Regardless it is an excuse. Period. If you want accept it as reason ok....but it's still an excuse.
Could BVG ran more of a vanilla defense? Could BK have sat EG after oh, I don't know...his tenth careless turnover?
Could the depth have been better and more prepared? Could he have done a better job taking the bad call against Florida State in stride and keep on moving forward?
So you can hang your hat on the injury bug and I will put mine on the host of other issues that could have been avoided.

 

[CUTigerman78]

Your post just seemed sour grapes. You lost, let them say 'scoreboard' and move on. It ain't like GTech and Clemson aren't going to play again, and Clemson isn't going to have their wins as well. Injuries, turnovers, fumbles, missed assignments, etc. That is all part of the game. And no matter what we say on a message board it doesn't change the outcome of the game. I actually had ND 10-2 going into this season with losses at Clemson and against USC. If they win those, great. If not. The sun will rise the following day

Just as a point IMO, it's not really sour grapes if you understand what he's saying. He's pointing out how the guy is "bragging" a bit about GT having an "elite offense"/mediocre defense (which I will even contest that they do have the best option O I've seen them have in quite some time). But the Clemson game last year was actually the exact opposite of that. GT's defensive play put more points on the board than their offense did against Clemson's D (in fact, Clemson held GT's O alone to less points than ND did this past weekend). In that game, GT only scored 1 TD, 2 FG's by offensive drives (13 points total). The other 15 points on their scoreboard were off 2 pick 6's (with missed PAT's), and a turnover deep in Clemson's territory that ended in a FG. So their defensive turnovers were responsible for 15 points, while their O was only responsible for 13. Not sure if that helps in understanding what he's talking about.

 

[echowaker]

Well there is a revelation. Regardless it is an excuse. Period. If you want accept it as reason ok....but it's still an excuse.
Could BVG ran more of a vanilla defense? Could BK have sat EG after oh, I don't know...his tenth careless turnover?
Could the depth have been better and more prepared? Could he have done a better job taking the bad call against Florida State in stride and keep on moving forward?
So you can hang your hat on the injury bug and I will put mine on the host of other issues that could have been avoided.

curious, what's your background ? you're very critical of some very well thought of coaches. resume ? practical experience in the game ? you sound like jaylon smiths future agent more than anything else.

 

[no1e]

BVG has taken his lumps around here, but he did a great coaching job last week. That defense was well-prepared for the Tech option, and they played great.

Agree. That was a great coaching job in preparing for the Tech option. Hope FSU will study the ND/Tech film and emulate.