Grade The Coaches...

[stu4don]

For fun, given last year's performance (and recruiting)...

I'll start:

Mike Sanford (QBs)... A+ Certainly had Malik ready and got Kizer up to speed real quick!
Autry Denson (RBs)... A+ lost his #1, #2 -- and inspired a new RB (CJ) and Frosh (Adams) to great years!
Harry Hiestand (OL)... A+ one of the best units in the past 20 years... (this year will be a test!)
Mike Dembrock (WR) A one of the best units in the past 20 years
Scott Booker (ST)... B+ big improvement over the last few years... but OSU showed us we need to get better
Keith Gilmore (DL) B/B+ We need a pass rush. But given that he lost JJ -- we were improved.
Mike Elston (LB) B... I think we all expected better given the talent and experience
Brian Kelly (HC)... B Had a lot of NFL talent on the team but three loses (to top 5) an underachievement
Todd Lyght (DB)... B- Disappointing year from our CBs and Safeties...
BVG (D)... C Some improvement but his scheme continues to confound college players
Paul Longo (SC) C Too many damn injuries, again! Why does Stanford keep their kids healthy?!

 

[IrishHerb]

For fun, given last year's performance (and recruiting)...

I'll start:

Mike Sanford (QBs)... A+ Certainly had Malik ready and got Kizer up to speed real quick!
Autry Denson (RBs)... A+ lost his #1, #2 -- and inspired a new RB (CJ) and Frosh (Adams) to great years!
Harry Hiestand (OL)... A+ one of the best units in the past 20 years... (this year will be a test!)
Mike Dembrock (WR) A one of the best units in the past 20 years
Scott Booker (ST)... B+ big improvement over the last few years... but OSU showed us we need to get better
Keith Gilmore (DL) B/B+ We need a pass rush. But given that he lost JJ -- we were improved.
Mike Elston (LB) B... I think we all expected better given the talent and experience
Brian Kelly (HC)... B Had a lot of NFL talent on the team but three loses (to top 5) an underachievement
Todd Lyght (DB)... B- Disappointing year from our CBs and Safeties...
BVG (D)... C Some improvement but his scheme continues to confound college players
Paul Longo (SC) C Too many damn injuries, again! Why does Stanford keep their kids healthy?!

Its more a HOW than a WHY.

Is it just plain luck? Or are they doing something we should be looking into?

 

[scotchirishblood]

This should be fun.

 

[Epictitus]

Kelly is an A

 

[cgvr]

Kelly is an A

I couldn't have said it better. I'm glad you and all your aliases are coming around.

 

[ndfi65]

bk - C

 

[G_a_r_y]

Lou Holtz A +++++++++++

 

[echowaker]

Lou Holtz A +++++++++++

88-93 agreed. after that not so much.

 

[Howard Hall 74]

88-93 agreed. after that not so much.

"after that" it' was on Monk and Wadsworth. They did more to set back the ND football program than any 1 or 2 people in history. Generational mediocrity.

 

[Howard Hall 74]

Coach 8 & 4 is at best C, C-. Way too much Kool-Aide here grading. You grad like - "Fr. A, A-, Amen". (Theology Dept. 70's)

 

[G_a_r_y]

88-93 agreed. after that not so much.

I miss those days so much.

 

[Java65]

Mike Sanford (QBs)... B+ Great job in year 1 but only a B+ because he'll have to do it for multiple years to get an A+

Autry Denson (RBs)... B+ Same as Sanford

Harry Hiestand (OL)... A- Would have been an A+ but the fact they were abused by O$U's 2nd string DL losses him points.

Mike Dembrock (WR)... A+ Unit has been great for a few years now.

Scott Booker (ST)... A- Same as Hiestand.

Keith Gilmore (DL)... A- Huge improvement in Okwara and Tillery performance as a Fr gives him big points

Mike Elston (LB)... C+ I'm not sure if the LB play is a result of his coaching or our defensive scheme.

Brian Kelly (HC/OC)... B Great at getting and developing talent but game time decisions have cost us games. Team unprepared it too many big games.

Todd Lyght (DB)... C+ Same as Elston

BVG (DC)... D- Awful. Players at every position on D in wrong position, blown coverage, simply don't know what their assignments are. Entire defense has been pathetic under him.

Paul Longo (SC)... C- To many injuries and kids 'times' at combine and pro-days improve greatly when they work on their own (or with trainer).

 

[BGI User 1596]

Longo and BVG = EPIC FAIL

 

[echowaker]

Mike Sanford (QBs)... B+ Great job in year 1 but only a B+ because he'll have to do it for multiple years to get an A+

Autry Denson (RBs)... B+ Same as Sanford

Harry Hiestand (OL)... A- Would have been an A+ but the fact they were abused by O$U's 2nd string DL losses him points.

Mike Dembrock (WR)... A+ Unit has been great for a few years now.

Scott Booker (ST)... A- Same as Hiestand.

Keith Gilmore (DL)... A- Huge improvement in Okwara and Tillery performance as a Fr gives him big points

Mike Elston (LB)... C+ I'm not sure if the LB play is a result of his coaching or our defensive scheme.

Brian Kelly (HC/OC)... B Great at getting and developing talent but game time decisions have cost us games. Team unprepared it too many big games.

Todd Lyght (DB)... C+ Same as Elston

BVG (DC)... D- Awful. Players at every position on D in wrong position, blown coverage, simply don't know what their assignments are. Entire defense has been pathetic under him.

Paul Longo (SC)... C- To many injuries and kids 'times' at combine and pro-days improve greatly when they work on their own (or with trainer).

define "unprepared " ? are you basing that on performance or actual knowledge that the team prepared differently in said games ? my guess is the team prepared the same as they always do. don't confuse performance with preparation.

 

[Java65]

define "unprepared " ? are you basing that on performance or actual knowledge that the team prepared differently in said games ? my guess is the team prepared the same as they always do. don't confuse performance with preparation.

In most of the big games they start off terrible or play terrible the entire game. IMO, performance is a result of preparation.

 

[echowaker]

In most of the big games they start off terrible or play terrible the entire game. IMO, performance is a result of of preparation.

so then you think they prepare differently week to week ?

 

[Java65]

so then you think they prepare differently week to week ?

I don't know. I do know they have played very poorly in most big games. We could argue about cause and effect but, IMO, the HC is responsible for everything good and bad.

 

[echowaker]

i've been coaching a long time. i just don't get the "they weren't prepared " angle. EVERY single coach i know has a strict routine in game week preparation. it doesn't vary. repitition is the key. now that said as a coach you do it the same but there is a human factor. kids can go through the motions physically but the mental preparation on the part of players and coaches alike can't be controlled. it's too easy to say "they weren't prepared ".

 

[echowaker]

I don't know. I do know they have played very poorly in most big games. We could argue about cause and effect but, IMO, the HC is responsible for everything good and bad.

couldn't agree more. he gets the fattest check and he gets the brunt of the responsibility. my point is you do it the same all the time but that doesn't always guarantee positive results. the other guy is doing the same thing. it's the beauty of it. competition.

 

[Java65]

i've been coaching a long time. i just don't get the "they weren't prepared " angle. EVERY single coach i know has a strict routine in game week preparation. it doesn't vary. repitition is the key. now that said as a coach you do it the same but there is a human factor. kids can go through the motions physically but the mental preparation on the part of players and coaches alike can't be controlled. it's too easy to say "they weren't prepared ".

Yea, but being prepared isn't just about how your practice. It's how you motivate your players for that game. Do you try and pump them up or take a more 'business like' approach? What is your game plan for that opponent?

Also, the way you prepare for a team like Georgia Tech might (or should) be different than how you prepare for Clemson. All I know is whatever it is, something is not right because we have played poorly against good teams almost every time.

 

[perseverare]

java

the variable is the athlete. So 6 classes of athletes exhibited the same problems and yet... it's the athletes faults.
Yup! keep doing the same things and well, good luck with that!

 

[Java65]

java

the variable is the athlete. So 6 classes of athletes exhibited the same problems and yet... it's the athletes faults.
Yup! keep doing the same things and well, good luck with that!

Honestly, I think there are multiple reasons for that, some under BK's control and some not. I've talked about it on this board recently.

How can the ND players realistically compete against semi-pro athletes. I do think BK ( and Weis was guilty of this as well) don't do themselves any favors by taking the 'business like' approach to every game, but that my opinion.

So, while I think some of the problems lie outside of BK control, I think he makes mistakes that compound the problem... which is why I gave him a B

 

[perseverare]

well, BK: for 2015, a B is the lower score I would go B+ or A-
I think he did a good job not putting DK 'in a box' and letting DK play full out. The temptstion to pull back on the playbook must have been significant. Kelly, Sanford + all get credit for that.

On the other hand the D and SC staffs costs him the (-)

 

[Java65]

well, BK: for 2015, a B is the lower score I would go B+ or A-
I think he did a good job not putting DK 'in a box' and letting DK play full out. The temptstion to put back on the playbook must have been significant. Kelly, Sanford + all get credit for that.

On the other hand the D and SC staffs costs him the (-)

You know, I read the original post wrong (rather didn't read it). My grades were based on their entire time at ND not just last year... my bad.

So just last year I would agree with you, B+ or A-. The 2 things that hurt are the O$U beating and getting run over at the start of the Clemson game. Considering everything though, he did a great job last year and, IMO, it was his best at ND.

 

[end_23]

Kelly is an A

What? Kelly gets an A+ from me. He's the best there is when it comes to deciding whether to go for 1 or 2 after a score.

 

[perseverare]

^ I was just going off the actual season and how it transpired. I was not judging the the overall tenure, off season or recruiting.

 

[echowaker]

Yea, but being prepared isn't just about how your practice. It's how you motivate your players for that game. Do you try and pump them up or take a more 'business like' approach? What is your game plan for that opponent?

Also, the way you prepare for a team like Georgia Tech might (or should) be different than how you prepare for Clemson. All I know is whatever it is, something is not right because we have played poorly against good teams almost every time.

my experience has taught me that players respond well to consistent structure. i am not at notre dame to observe what happens on a daily basis nor is anyone else here. all i know is brian kelly has had a long history of success as a college football coach at multiple levels. he's an excellent program administrator. what happens on saturdays is a byproduct of what happens sunday through friday. the program at notre dame is in the best shape its been in since 1993. kelly has righted a slowly sinking ship. as long as he is there they will continue to be a perennial top 12 program. in the current landscape of college football and given notre dames different approach from an administrative standpoint that's pretty damn good.

 

[echowaker]

What? Kelly gets an A+ from me. He's the best there is when it comes to deciding whether to go for 1 or 2 after a score.

the silliness never ends. you are incapable of intelligent discussion. enjoy your crayons.

 

[stu4don]

Yeah, I was tough on Kelly. 2012 was his best effort imo. but I'll bump him to a B+ for 2015.

 

[cgvr]

What? Kelly gets an A+ from me. He's the best there is when it comes to deciding whether to go for 1 or 2 after a score.

I was impressed when he started a season with 12 men on the field. It takes an incredible head coach to devise such an outstanding strategy. He called it the "maybe no one would notice the extra player set." Seriously, if you could play 12 on 11 that should bode very well. It's diabolical and ahead of its' time. Interestingly, the guy who wasn't supposed to be on the field was an O captain.
kelly's an average hc project learning the position on our dime..... He lacks intelligence, common sense, class.....

 

[FLballcoach1]

Virtually no one on this thread is qualified to even offer an opinion on Brian Kelly. Certainly everyone has a right to offer an opinion, but 99.999% of the opinions on here are completely meaningless.

A full 100% of the people on here are not qualified to "Grade" Brian Kelly, or any other ND Coach for that matter.

Grades? It is called Wins and Losses.

 

[Java65]

my experience has taught me that players respond well to consistent structure. i am not at notre dame to observe what happens on a daily basis nor is anyone else here. all i know is brian kelly has had a long history of success as a college football coach at multiple levels. he's an excellent program administrator. what happens on saturdays is a byproduct of what happens sunday through friday. the program at notre dame is in the best shape its been in since 1993. kelly has righted a slowly sinking ship. as long as he is there they will continue to be a perennial top 12 program. in the current landscape of college football and given notre dames different approach from an administrative standpoint that's pretty damn good.

Damn good post! Like I've said, and you point out here, Kelly is a great program administrator. I'm left scratching my head as many of his game time decisions. Like you said the program itself is in the best shape it's been in.

As to perennial top 12.. well, I'm not so sure because in 6 years, if I'm not mistaken, we have finished in the top 12 twice. That goes back to my only reservations regarding BK, his game time decisions.

Honestly, I think Kelly would be far more successful if he stepped back as OC and was just HC. I think some of the problems we have seen on defense could have been fixed if Kelly was just a HC and not HC/OC. Under Diaco he let DL really suffer because Diaco was allowed to solely dictate who was offered. Under BVG we run this ultra complected scheme. If Kelly were not so involved with the offense he could offer his guidance in both offense and defense. As it stands now the DC have virtual autonomy.

 

[Howard Hall 74]

I was impressed when he started a season with 12 men on the field. It takes an incredible head coach to devise such an outstanding strategy. He called it the "maybe no one would notice the extra player set." Seriously, if you could play 12 on 11 that should bode very well. It's diabolical and ahead of its' time. Interestingly, the guy who wasn't supposed to be on the field was an O captain.
kelly's an average hc project learning the position on our dime..... He lacks intelligence, common sense, class.....

That's nothing - 2014 season started with the first play from scrimmage - this is after the opening kickoff, offense is huddled with Kelly (calling first play) for 5 minutes on sideline while NBC commercials run - this is after 6 weeks of fall practice - team goes out for first play, Golson goes to the huddle, they break & get to line of scrimmage - Golson looks the defense over, looks over to Kelly, looks at defense, looks at Kelly, looks at defense and calls a time out. Why practice, why prepare, Kelly will just f..it up any how. That's called NOT being prepared!!!!!

 

[Java65]

Virtually no one on this thread is qualified to even offer an opinion on Brian Kelly. Certainly everyone has a right to offer an opinion, but 99.999% of the opinions on here are completely meaningless.

A full 100% of the people on here are not qualified to "Grade" Brian Kelly, or any other ND Coach for that matter.

Grades? It is called Wins and Losses.

So if W & L are his grades you would have to agree that 2010, 2011, 2013 & 2014 he earned a C or C+ in each of those years.

 

[end_23]

I was impressed when he started a season with 12 men on the field. It takes an incredible head coach to devise such an outstanding strategy. He called it the "maybe no one would notice the extra player set." Seriously, if you could play 12 on 11 that should bode very well. It's diabolical and ahead of its' time. Interestingly, the guy who wasn't supposed to be on the field was an O captain.
kelly's an average hc project learning the position on our dime..... He lacks intelligence, common sense, class.....

I couldn't say it any better. I was actually at that Temple game when that happened- 2013. TJ Jones. Kelly is and will always be a fraud.

 

[end_23]

Virtually no one on this thread is qualified to even offer an opinion on Brian Kelly. Certainly everyone has a right to offer an opinion, but 99.999% of the opinions on here are completely meaningless.

A full 100% of the people on here are not qualified to "Grade" Brian Kelly, or any other ND Coach for that matter.

Grades? It is called Wins and Losses.

I agree and Kelly is 1-9 in the wins and losses category when it comes to major games on the road or neutral sites. It's pretty much common sense that Kelly is clueless. Pop in the tape at the end of the 2014 Northwestern game. That will explain it all. I don't give a damn what a homer like you says. I see with my own eyeballs this head coach constantly makes mistakes in game and never improves. Deal with it.

 

[HillRock86]

my experience has taught me that players respond well to consistent structure. i am not at notre dame to observe what happens on a daily basis nor is anyone else here. all i know is brian kelly has had a long history of success as a college football coach at multiple levels. he's an excellent program administrator. what happens on saturdays is a byproduct of what happens sunday through friday. the program at notre dame is in the best shape its been in since 1993. kelly has righted a slowly sinking ship. as long as he is there they will continue to be a perennial top 12 program. in the current landscape of college football and given notre dames different approach from an administrative standpoint that's pretty damn good.

Echo, I agree with all of your points. My question is how does Kelly bring the program to the next level? What does he have to do differently to get his team in consideration for a playoff bid every year and for a shot at the national championship? Notre Dame's margin for error is razor thin because it does not play in a conference. For example, a whole season's worth of work, a whole year's worth of work for that matter, went up in flames when Stanford drove the ball into field goal range in less than 30 seconds and beat Notre Dame. Now I'm assuming had the Irish won that game, they would have made it into the playoff and I know that's debatable too. But as a coach, if you have hit a plateau, how do you take it to the next level, in this case, a championship level, given that there are factors (i.e. academic requirements, climate, etc., all the stuff that has an effect on recruiting) is likely to stay the same? I'm not asking to be a smartass. I want to know how a coach would do it. Does it require a change in coaching philosophy? Does it require a change by the university in its approach to the program? I don't know. I like Kelly. I think he's a good coach. I don't know if he can bring Notre Dame to the top of the mountain and keep it there. Perhaps no one can, given the standards the university holds the program to.

 

[perseverare]

If the next level is a legit top 8 team (not achieved by other top teams beating each other) the next level is not a small hop for ND it is more like a big leap. There is a real talent gap; especially defensively.

You cannot argue with results.

 

[end_23]

That's nothing - 2014 season started with the first play from scrimmage - this is after the opening kickoff, offense is huddled with Kelly (calling first play) for 5 minutes on sideline while NBC commercials run - this is after 6 weeks of fall practice - team goes out for first play, Golson goes to the huddle, they break & get to line of scrimmage - Golson looks the defense over, looks over to Kelly, looks at defense, looks at Kelly, looks at defense and calls a time out. Why practice, why prepare, Kelly will just f..it up any how. That's called NOT being prepared!!!!!

I went to that game too. Everyone in the stands was groaning and looking at each other saying wtf after that happened. The majority of fans that go to the games are quite knowledgeable. The complete BK homers in here have probably never been to Notre Dame Stadium for a game and simply have no clue.

 

[end_23]

Echo, I agree with all of your points. My question is how does Kelly bring the program to the next level? What does he have to do differently to get his team in consideration for a playoff bid every year and for a shot at the national championship? Notre Dame's margin for error is razor thin because it does not play in a conference. For example, a whole season's worth of work, a whole year's worth of work for that matter, went up in flames when Stanford drove the ball into field goal range in less than 30 seconds and beat Notre Dame. Now I'm assuming had the Irish won that game, they would have made it into the playoff and I know that's debatable too. But as a coach, if you have hit a plateau, how do you take it to the next level, in this case, a championship level, given that there are factors (i.e. academic requirements, climate, etc., all the stuff that has an effect on recruiting) is likely to stay the same? I'm not asking to be a smartass. I want to know how a coach would do it. Does it require a change in coaching philosophy? Does it require a change by the university in its approach to the program? I don't know. I like Kelly. I think he's a good coach. I don't know if he can bring Notre Dame to the top of the mountain and keep it there. Perhaps no one can, given the standards the university holds the program to.

Excellent post. Well, except for the Brian Kelly is a good coach bit. These people in here that want nothing to change and think 8-4 is fine are not die hard ND fans. You hit it right on the head. The program has leveled off. Brian Kelly never looks to improve. His ego is way too big for that.