ESPN article about rape cover ups at Florida State.

[BigFellaFan]

My God, are you really this blind?

Even with the cover up by FSU coaches, the school and the TPD, there was a rape kit, there was her testimony, there was the second victim and there was plenty of evidence yet the SA refused to turn in over to a grand jury.

It was a total cover up.

 

[SchmidtyNole]

My God, are you really this blind?

Even with the cover up by FSU coaches, the school and the TPD, there was a rape kit, there was her testimony, there was the second victim and there was plenty of evidence yet the SA refused to turn in over to a grand jury.

It was a total cover up.

Come on man. The Rape kit was not conclusive. There was no second victim. The supposed 2nd victim was a woman who said that she did Consent but wasn't entirely happy that it was a one night stand and she felt used and mistreated and sought counseling after the encounter. That would make Winston in the wrong in terms of not being a gentleman but not a criminal and there is a difference. That is what happens when you get your information from 2nd hand sources who have an agenda. As for her testimony you have the testimony of a woman who has changed her story multiple times and there were gaps in her memory that she blamed on being drugged, yet the toxicology report showed no drugs in her system. Meggs said at his Press Conference that she was in his words "Was not a witness we could put on the stand and count on her to prove the elements of the crime." Just a suggestion: Let the professionals handle these things and quit being a back seat driver.

 

[BigFellaFan]

...... ^^^^^. and you don't have any agenda.

BTW, so do I, as I don't like rapists and those who cover up such crimes for personal gain like FSU. Every day people are rightfully convicted of rape with far less evidence and without even a positive ID which this case had. The "other women" most certainly would have been called and if there was a proper, timely investigation Winston would have been brought in and not allowed to destroy evidence like the video of the event.

Then again there are guys like you who accept lies from a known liar!

 

[john0gaunt]

How are you able to justify anything based on the investigation. As you have asked, can't you read? When the investigation is suspect, the entire investigation is suspect.


The New York Times reported last year that the police had conducted virtually no investigation of the allegation, during which time important evidence disappeared. In December, the prosecutor, William N. Meggs, chose not to pursue criminal charges against Mr. Winston, saying that building a solid case would have been difficult in part because of the shortcomings of the police investigation.

 

[SchmidtyNole]

How are you able to justify anything based on the investigation. As you have asked, can't you read? When the investigation is suspect, the entire investigation is suspect.


The New York Times reported last year that the police had conducted virtually no investigation of the allegation, during which time important evidence disappeared. In December, the prosecutor, William N. Meggs, chose not to pursue criminal charges against Mr. Winston, saying that building a solid case would have been difficult in part because of the shortcomings of the police investigation.

ld
That is incorrect. One, Meggs said "There were some other things TPD could have done early that they didn't do but it may not have changed the ultimate outcome at all."
Two, they did investigate initially. The woman was not cooperative. That was why the investigation stalled in the first place. When the toxicology report came out in March 2013, they gave the results to Kinsman's attorney Pat Carroll. Carroll said "We'll be in touch if we wish to pursue the case further." Kinsman basically dropped contact from TPD. In the TPD Report it says "This case is being suspended due to lack of cooperation from (Redacted)." Without Probable Cause and without cooperation from Kinsman, they made the decision to not turn the case over to the State Attorney.

Should they have done so anyway. I suppose. Pretty tough to investigate a rape case if you are unable to make contact with the person who made the claim.

Kinsman obviously changed her mind in November 2013 and an investigation ensued. However, I find the timing of that quite odd considering in March 2013 Winston was a 4th team QB while in November 2013 he was the Heisman Frontrunner.

 

[BigFellaFan]

FSU will pay out millions and likely face stiff sanctions. Winston will also pay out millions rather than ever subject himself to cross examination, certain perjury and allow the chance for criminal charges to be reintroduced.

Bottom line is that Winston will be able to poach on other women and Jumbo who enabled him will help ruin others .

 

[SchmidtyNole]

FSU will pay out millions and likely face stiff sanctions. Winston will also pay out millions rather than ever subject himself to cross examination, certain perjury and allow the chance for criminal charges to be reintroduced.

Bottom line is that Winston will be able to poach on other women and Jumbo who enabled him will help ruin others .

This is what happens when you don't have any facts to back up your claims or when things you thought were facts turn out to not be. You have no choice but to resort to just throwing out predictions and hope that it sticks.

 

[BigFellaFan]

No, that is what happens when a cover up by powerful groups deny justice. It is disgusting what FSU allowed and they will pay mightily for what they did.

 

[BigFellaFan]

Oh, and by the way, when Meggs said he wasn't pursuing charges he was asked if he thought Winston was innocent he responded, " There is not enough evidence to convict", that is when he went into the shoddy investigation and the cover up.

 

[cgvr]

ld
That is incorrect. One, Meggs said "There were some other things TPD could have done early that they didn't do but it may not have changed the ultimate outcome at all."
Two, they did investigate initially. The woman was not cooperative. That was why the investigation stalled in the first place. When the toxicology report came out in March 2013, they gave the results to Kinsman's attorney Pat Carroll. Carroll said "We'll be in touch if we wish to pursue the case further." Kinsman basically dropped contact from TPD. In the TPD Report it says "This case is being suspended due to lack of cooperation from (Redacted)." Without Probable Cause and without cooperation from Kinsman, they made the decision to not turn the case over to the State Attorney.

Should they have done so anyway. I suppose. Pretty tough to investigate a rape case if you are unable to make contact with the person who made the claim.

Kinsman obviously changed her mind in November 2013 and an investigation ensued. However, I find the timing of that quite odd considering in March 2013 Winston was a 4th team QB while in November 2013 he was the Heisman Frontrunner.

You are communicating with a lunatic aka "rivals multihandled hydra."

 

[SchmidtyNole]

No, that is what happens when a cover up by powerful groups deny justice. It is disgusting what FSU allowed and they will pay mightily for what they did.

Tell you what. I have no idea what your lifestyle is. I believe hooking up is morally wrong but morally wrong or not it isn't a crime.

If you hook up with a girl and she consents and then the next day she goes to the police and says you raped her then don't complain if they charge you on the basis of nothing other than that.

 

[BigFellaFan]

It wasn't the next day, it was within hours and she called her parents in from out of time all saying the same thing, that she was raped by an unknown attacker.

She did not know him, did not know he was a football player and no matter how many times you morons attack her story she never wavered from he statement that she was raped.

Why lie?

 

[SchmidtyNole]

It wasn't the next day, it was within hours and she called her parents in from out of time all saying the same thing, that she was raped by an unknown attacker.

She did not know him, did not know he was a football player and no matter how many times you morons attack her story she never wavered from he statement that she was raped.

Why lie?

Why lie? She had DNA from semen from two different men on her panties. Winston's and a guy named Jamal Roberts, who she was dating at the time. When Meggs approached her about the 2nd DNA when he first interviewed her he basically said,"We have some problems here. There was a 2nd DNA that was found on your shorts and we need to know who that 2nd DNA is from." Basically you can't try a rape case with a 2nd DNA that you don't know who it came from. Kinsman tried to say she didn't know how it could have gotten there. She suggested that maybe her friend Monique borrowed her clothes and that was how the 2nd DNA got there. Meggs saw a phone number on her Cell Phone from a man named Jamal Roberts who was a Freshman receiver at Kent State in Ohio and was from her hometown. They tracked him down, got his DNA and it was a match to the 2nd DNA that was found on her shorts. They asked Roberts about the allegation and he said he was aware of the allegation and discussed it with Kinsman at the time but that he was unwilling to talk to Meggs unless they subpoenaed him. They didn't subpoena him. This is all in the State Attorney Report so if you don't know all of this I would suggest you read it.

Why would she lie? Well she had no problem lying when she said she didn't know how the 2nd DNA got there and tried to tell Meggs it could have gotten there from her sharing her clothes with Monique. Then low and behold they finally found out who the DNA was from on their own without Kinsman's help.

 

[irish6789]

Why lie? She had DNA from semen from two different men on her panties. Winston's and a guy named Jamal Roberts, who she was dating at the time. When Meggs approached her about the 2nd DNA when he first interviewed her he basically said,"We have some problems here. There was a 2nd DNA that was found on your shorts and we need to know who that 2nd DNA is from." Basically you can't try a rape case with a 2nd DNA that you don't know who it came from. Kinsman tried to say she didn't know how it could have gotten there. She suggested that maybe her friend Monique borrowed her clothes and that was how the 2nd DNA got there. Meggs saw a phone number on her Cell Phone from a man named Jamal Roberts who was a Freshman receiver at Kent State in Ohio and was from her hometown. They tracked him down, got his DNA and it was a match to the 2nd DNA that was found on her shorts. They asked Roberts about the allegation and he said he was aware of the allegation and discussed it with Kinsman at the time but that he was unwilling to talk to Meggs unless they subpoenaed him. They didn't subpoena him. This is all in the State Attorney Report so if you don't know all of this I would suggest you read it.

Why would she lie? Well she had no problem lying when she said she didn't know how the 2nd DNA got there and tried to tell Meggs it could have gotten there from her sharing her clothes with Monique. Then low and behold they finally found out who the DNA was from on their own without Kinsman's help.

Do you really believe everything you post? Do you consider FSU to not be a morally bankrupt football program? If you answer those questions with yesses, why do you keep coming back to argue in circles on a Notre Dame board with someone who's mind you're never going to change? If you believe it, you should sleep well without years of this banter, but It appears that you're suffering from The Truth Hurts Syndrome. Anybody paying attention knows your program is a disciplinary dumpster fire, just like Florida has been, particularly when they were winning titles with Meyer. If FSU is not, what program would YOU consider to be out of control?

 

[SchmidtyNole]

Do you really believe everything you post? Do you consider FSU to not be a morally bankrupt football program? If you answer those questions with yesses, why do you keep coming back to argue in circles on a Notre Dame board with someone who's mind you're never going to change? If you believe it, you should sleep well without years of this banter, but It appears that you're suffering from The Truth Hurts Syndrome. Anybody paying attention knows your program is a disciplinary dumpster fire, just like Florida has been, particularly when they were winning titles with Meyer. If FSU is not, what program would YOU consider to be out of control?

Yes I believe everything I post. I listen to facts. If the facts show that someone committed a crime then I expect that person to be prosecuted. I also expect fairness. Calling Winston a rapist is entirely unfair. Saying FSU is out of control based on Winston is entirely unfair.

When the State Attorney decided not to prosecute the case, I obtained the information from the Report when it became public record and I formed my own conclusion based on that. Because I've read the report, when news outlets like the NY Times report things about the case I know right away when they are lying or whenever they are spinning or misrepresenting the facts. So it is hard when I encounter folks like yourself who don't know the facts of the case like I do and haven't bothered to read the reports and come to a conclusion based in incorrect facts without at least correcting your factual errors.

But you are right about one thing: I do have a peace of mind about it in spite of what people say. About the only thing I can say is if you don't care to go strictly by the facts of the case then there really isn't anything I can do to help you.

 

[BigFellaFan]

I suppose you also believe in the tooth fairy, Santa Claus , trump and that FSU has never cheated.

Unbelievable !

 

[SchmidtyNole]

I suppose you also believe in the tooth fairy, Santa Claus , trump and that FSU has never cheated.

Unbelievable !

At this point you are being ridiculous. You asked why she would lie? I gave you instances of where she actually did lie to Meggs during the investigation that you could verify if you'd bother to read the report, and rather than come up with a somewhat intelligent post in response to what I wrote then this is what you come up with. It really doesn't even deserve a response. Like I said, you aren't interested in facts and that's pretty obvious.

 

[BigFellaFan]

No, you did not give facts, you gave FSU spin. She could have had 10 DNA's and Winston still raped her. You know it, I know it and the world knows it and FSU helped cover it up!

 

[SchmidtyNole]

No, you did not give facts, you gave FSU spin. She could have had 10 DNA's and Winston still raped her. You know it, I know it and the world knows it and FSU helped cover it up!

You missed the point. She lied about the 2nd DNA and who it belonged to!!! To a State Attorney conducting the investigation. She lied!!! She lied!!! She lied!!! What part of that don't you understand? A person who has shown to lie undermines their credibility.

 

[SeanPol355]

S*h*idtyNole - while you are eagerly defending due process for football players, you seem blissfully unaware and ignorant of the fact there is no, nor has there ever been, any due process for victims at FSU. That is the key fact disclosed in the rape advocate's deposition. Argue the rape victim's due process with the same enthusiasm. I doubt you can.

 

[cgvr]

No, you did not give facts, you gave FSU spin. She could have had 10 DNA's and Winston still raped her. You know it, I know it and the world knows it and FSU helped cover it up!

What do you call your spin? Seriously, you make up handles to agree with yourself...... Please author another scouting report....they're better than "Mad" magazine.

 

[BigFellaFan]

When Winston got caught shoplifting he said he forgot to pay. When he talked to the NFL he said Publix set him up for free food!

Which time was that rapist lying!

Snotty mole, you are losing this bad because the facts are not on your side.

 

[SchmidtyNole]

S*h*idtyNole - while you are eagerly defending due process for football players, you seem blissfully unaware and ignorant of the fact there is no, nor has there ever been, any due process for victims at FSU. That is the key fact disclosed in the rape advocate's deposition. Argue the rape victim's due process with the same enthusiasm. I doubt you can.

Due Process applies to those accused of something. Justice applies to those who accuse someone of something.

Those have to meet in the middle. The accuser has rights. The accused has rights. Then you have a burden of proof. The side of the accuser has to meet the burden of proof, not the other way around. For criminal cases the burden of proof is proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt. Some venues require Clear and Convincing Evidence. The lowest standard of proof is Preponderance of Evidence.

When Winston got caught shoplifting he said he forgot to pay. When he talked to the NFL he said Publix set him up for free food!

Which time was that rapist lying!

Snotty mole, you are losing this bad because the facts are not on your side.

He lied about the Publix case which is no relation to the rape case and is inadmissible in a court of law.
This girl's lie which is in relation to the rape case is admissible in a court of law.

In a criminal case who has the burden of Proof? Just stop.

 

[john0gaunt]

People like cgmr and these remaining noles. How do they sleep at night. I pray for the women in their lives and extended family. Even when done on an anonymous message board, there is a special place in hell for people like you pal.

police had conducted virtually no investigation of the allegation, during which time important evidence disappeared.

 

[cgvr]

People like cgmr and these remaining noles. How do they sleep at night. I pray for the women in their lives and extended family. Even when done on an anonymous message board, there is a special place in hell for people like you pal.

police had conducted virtually no investigation of the allegation, during which time important evidence disappeared.

When you take a leak does argus help?

 

[SchmidtyNole]

People like cgmr and these remaining noles. How do they sleep at night. I pray for the women in their lives and extended family. Even when done on an anonymous message board, there is a special place in hell for people like you pal.

police had conducted virtually no investigation of the allegation, during which time important evidence disappeared.

I'm confident in my eternal future because I've placed my Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as my Savior for salvation. (John 3:16).

 

[BigFellaFan]

^^^^^. Hey Snottymole, that's what Boden said and look what a POS he turned out to be.

"Birds of a feather,........."

 

[john0gaunt]

When you take a leak does argus help?

I'm godlike to you? That I can understand. Otherwise, your obsession with my penis, and whose hand it is in, tells us much more about you than you might realize.

 

[cgvr]

I'm godlike to you? That I can understand. Otherwise, your obsession with my penis, and whose hand it is in, tells us much more about you than you might realize.

Nah, it was just one post. PS I have the lead one person put me on ignore today.

 

[BigFellaFan]

Cgvr is a POS , that much is certain!

 

[cgvr]

Cgvr is a POS , that much is certain!

Why thank you! Many folks have commented that I am a person of sophistication.

You're finally coming around. Well done argie.

 

[SeanPol355]

You missed the point. She lied about the 2nd DNA and who it belonged to!!! To a State Attorney conducting the investigation. She lied!!! She lied!!! She lied!!! What part of that don't you understand? A person who has shown to lie undermines their credibility.

Who is convicting who without benefit of proof in a court of law? Your "innocent until proven guilty" arguments just fell apart like a house of cards.

 

[SchmidtyNole]

Who is convicting who without benefit of proof in a court of law? Your "innocent until proven guilty" arguments just fell apart like a house of cards.

She isn't the one on trial. She is a witness. A non-credible witness as the report shows.

 

[SeanPol355]

You keep parsing it S*h*idty, but your arguments still sound like evasive whining. Despite your claim otherwise, you have been putting the witness on trial, in the court of public opinion. Unfortunately for your inept defense, your arguments won't hold up in the court of public opinion, nor would they get far in a real courtroom, civil or criminal. Your guy is going to pay up big time in civil court. He's lucky he never made it to criminal court or he'd be facing jail time.

 

[SchmidtyNole]

You keep parsing it S*h*idty, but your arguments still sound like evasive whining. Despite your claim otherwise, you have been putting the witness on trial, in the court of public opinion. Unfortunately for your inept defense, your arguments won't hold up in the court of public opinion, nor would they get far in a real courtroom, civil or criminal. Your guy is going to pay up big time in civil court. He's lucky he never made it to criminal court or he'd be facing jail time.

We'll find out won't we?

 

[BigFellaFan]

SnottyMole,

Do you think Winston or FSU did anything wrong?

 

[Weisnheimer]

I think that is better than excusing your own team's players' problems with the law in the name of "We're fine because it's not a part of our culture like at FSU." It ain't a part of our culture. Jimbo has kicked off star players in Greg Dent, Greg Reid among others throughout his tenure. But Fisher runs his program in accordance with Due Process.

Willie Meggs didn't charge Jameis Winston. Do some research: Meggs has always overcharged FSU athletes. He took Travis Johnson to trial for rape in 2003 even though Johnson had consensual sex with a woman shot putter who weighed 230 pounds and Johnson had had shoulder surgery 2 weeks prior. An ALL FEMALE jury acquited Johnson in 30 minutes. The evidence showed that Dalvin Cook should have never been charged. It was a flimsy case at best. Yet he got acquitted. Why? Because the evidence didn't prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

People like yourself could never serve on a jury because you prejudge the outcome without having the facts or give credence to hearsay evidence.

In our country Due Process is based on the premise that you are Innocent until Proven Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt before a jury of your peers in a court of law.

Based on Meggs's history he would have loved to have charged Winston. Why didn't he? Because he knew with Kinsman's credibility issues he had no chance of proving the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

I could write a whole book on this entire subject but you aren't interested in facts. You are only interested in spinning a narrative that we run a dirty program without any basis in facts other than what media outlets like the NY Times tell you.

Is this the same Willie Meggs, States Atty, FSU graduate and alum? I see. And wasn't the TPD's Detective Angulo an FSU graduate, the detective sent to the hospital that night to investigate? And didn't he work for a fundraising org. that raised money for FSU athletics? Again, I see. He must've really had it in for FSU football.

 

[no1e]

You missed the point. She lied about the 2nd DNA and who it belonged to!!! To a State Attorney conducting the investigation. She lied!!! She lied!!! She lied!!! What part of that don't you understand? A person who has shown to lie undermines their credibility.

True .... which is exactly why the moron you are arguing with has zero cred. He has years and thousands of posts consisting of nothing but lies. "Why lie?" The irony of him asking that. I have asked him that same question after 90 percent of his posts over 8-9 years of him posting lies.

Facts have always confused him and when nothing supports his agenda then simply make up stuff and call it fact. Or just lie. Take your pick. It's his legacy.

Same ole same ole. Nothing changes. You waste your time trying to have an intelligent exchange with this intellectually defunct crazy person. Strongly suggest you take out the trash and ignore him. No amount of facts will impact his delusional agenda. He doesn't care how right or fact based your argument is.

 

[BigFellaFan]

Hey Mo1e,

Are you back still refusing to admit you lied about BOBo Wilson?

Liar!

 

[ForeverNole22]

You keep parsing it S*h*idty, but your arguments still sound like evasive whining. Despite your claim otherwise, you have been putting the witness on trial, in the court of public opinion. Unfortunately for your inept defense, your arguments won't hold up in the court of public opinion, nor would they get far in a real courtroom, civil or criminal. Your guy is going to pay up big time in civil court. He's lucky he never made it to criminal court or he'd be facing jail time.

The court of public opinion? Hahahahahahahaha
You're referring to message board dolts like yourself I guess.

Study the documents from the case and then come talk to us. There are thousands of pages so it will take you about a year I'm guessing. Until then, you are not qualified to discuss it.