Does anybody not have a problem with

[HRC08]

the post game press conference?

Let's seperate all of us wanting Van Gorder being replaced.

Do you feel like the players share in the disastrous start to the season?

What was St. Brown thinking? Just go down. There are 4 of them and you've already gotten the first down. Onawalu(sic) getting run over by the QB. I get he's a tough spot and had to play pass but that was kinda embarrassing. Nobody can make a one on one tackle. False start by a Senior Captain. QB over throws receivers all game long. Back up QB makes the most of his chance by taking a ridiculous sack. One sack in 4 games.

I know Van Gorder stinks. But do the players get a pass here? At a certain point, it's you against them and you need to beat your man. When can we start expecting Rochell, Tillary, Nelson and McGlinchey to beat their opponent?

To me this goes back to Weis and probably before him. Lack luster home performances. Playing down to your opponents level. Being content with any type of lead. Never playing with a sense of urgency until they find themselves down big. Clemson, Ohio State, Michigan State, Texas, too many to name actually. I mean it's great to have a never give up spirit but why does it take getting embarrassed for them to play with reckless abandon? To me this program and more so the players have always had a sense being above it all. It's football. You're supposed to play and act like savages. On the verge of being criminal. Play smart, no need to get penalties but play violent and thru the whistle. I don't see any anger. I see a bunch of nice guys.

 

[hvillebill]

The players seem to have no passion whatsoever. It's as if they're simply going through the motions.

Sometimes that's on the coaches, but the players have to take it upon themselves as well.

 

[perseverare]

that is why you have coaching

 

[Java65]

I'll bang this drum again and again and again. We have seen the exact same mistakes year after year after year after year. These are very poorly coached players and what they do on the field is a result of that coaching.

So once again... if all the students in a class fail, is it the students or the teacher?

 

[hvillebill]

that is why you have coaching

I'm not backing the coaching staff and I'm not relieving them of that responsibility with my comment.

If you're not properly prepared that's strictly on the coaches and they are supposed to motivate the team as well, but as a player you still have to care about whether or not you're trying regardless. The question is: Do you have heart? As a society people always want to blame someone else for their failures.

Coaches and players are all to blame for this debacle as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Java65]

I'm not backing the coaching staff and I'm not relieving them of that responsibility with my comment.

If you're not properly prepared that's strictly on the coaches and they are supposed to motivate the team as well, but as a player you still have to care about whether or not you're trying regardless. The question is: Do you have heart? As a society people always want to blame someone else for their failures.

Coaches and players are all to blame for this debacle as far as I'm concerned.

IMO, the lack of passion on the players is EXACTLY how they are coached. How many times has Kelly said he didn't want the player too up or too down. He wants his players to be professional to avoid ups and downs of the game. That is coached into them.

I also think part of that problem is that Kelly and BVG make things so damn complicated that players have to think far too much and don't just react which comes off as unemotional.

 

[HDK]

There has been a sense of entitlement among ND players ever since the Davie years, as far as I'm concerned. I can't tell you how many interviews I've read with guys saying "I came to Notre Dame for the chance to win a national championship" and then not do anything to make that possible.

Someone on another thread pointed out that the 20-hour practice limit was imposed right around '94 when our teams began their downward descent. That could certainly be part of it.

Yeah, the team is in desperate need for someone to step up and say enough is enough. That would be a huge help, but obviously the coaches have failed yet again to instill any sense of urgency.

 

[Telx1]

Think back to when Kelly arrived at ND. He criticized the players for lack of toughness and discipline. We all bought in as this was apparent on the field. We were going to get tough and play aggressive disciplined football, and there was going to be a huge cultural change throughout the program. Thought he was spot on, and thought he brought about these changes. Now, we're seeing the same crap every Saturday. We play soft with little emotion, and fundamentals are terrible.

 

[HRC08]

I'd be fine with a completely new coaching staff. I didn't mention that before. Kelly's been here 7 years. I'd certainly not protest his departure but come on? Same ole same ole as far as I can remember. Lackluster players giving lackluster performances. And some of you with this "coaches have to motivate players" stuff are exactly what's wrong with our society. Why does somebody else have to motivate me to do my job? Why can't I just want to be good at my job and therefore work my ass off to be good at my job?

 

[D_Master]

I'm beginning to think that a good # of the people we recruit are choosing ND as a "business decision". If football doesn't work out, oh well I got an incredible opportunity after football. And honestly in the long run that's probably whats best for them. But as a fan, I want players that football is everything to them. Unfortunately I don't think many of those type of kids are going to be choosing ND.

 

[HRC08]

Think back to when Kelly arrived at ND. He criticized the players for lack of toughness and discipline. We all bought in as this was apparent on the field. We were going to get tough and play aggressive disciplined football, and there was going to be a huge cultural change throughout the program. Thought he was spot on, and thought he brought about these changes. Now, we're seeing the same crap every Saturday. We play soft with little emotion, and fundamentals are terrible.

Tough gentlemen, he said. ND's starting OLB got ran over by skinny QB today and lost at home to a team it was favored by 29 points.

I do sense a team that seems entitled. I told my wife during the MSU game that the team should be in white helmets. Hell, now I think they should all wear completely white uniforms. They certainly aren't Notre Dame right now.

I also said that Deshone Kizer needs to get mad. At himself after the game he played but also at his OLine for rolling out another ho hum performance. He got lit up a lot for having a supposed elite group of players protecting him. And for all his bravado, Cole Luck sure has had nothing to say to the dlineman that have offered zero help to him and his db's by putting no pressure on the QB all season long.

 

[Sarah_Plain_And_Tall]

I'll bang this drum again and again and again. We have seen the exact same mistakes year after year after year after year. These are very poorly coached players and what they do on the field is a result of that coaching.

So once again... if all the students in a class fail, is it the students or the teacher?

Absolutely. If this was a one time thing I would certainly be much harder on the players. But it is not. Aside from the poor coaching, maybe we need to start evaluating Kelly's recruiting. Maybe he is not recruiting the RKG's? Maybe fringe 4 star and 3 star players will not cut it without excellent player development? Maybe the players he is recruiting have low football IQ's or are soft?

 

[rgc7]

I'd be fine with a completely new coaching staff. I didn't mention that before. Kelly's been here 7 years. I'd certainly not protest his departure but come on? Same ole same ole as far as I can remember. Lackluster players giving lackluster performances. And some of you with this "coaches have to motivate players" stuff are exactly what's wrong with our society. Why does somebody else have to motivate me to do my job? Why can't I just want to be good at my job and therefore work my ass off to be good at my job?

HRC,
I agree with you about 50% . I too have been always self motivted and have always tried to do as near a perfect job as humanly possible . However, one also works for rewards, an that is where a good boss,
leader , or coach comes in. He rewards , motivates, and encourages good work. He also discourages and
punishes the bad workers.
If a player is not doing his job, he is called out, corrected, and if that is not enough , that player rides the pines, and the next man steps in.
Lou is the perfect example, Waters and Brooks broke the rules before a hugh game, and Lou put them on a plane and sent them home. ND won the game without those key players.

 

[mmboys07]

I'll bang this drum again and again and again. We have seen the exact same mistakes year after year after year after year. These are very poorly coached players and what they do on the field is a result of that coaching.

So once again... if all the students in a class fail, is it the students or the teacher?

I guess I will answer this one since I am a high school AP teacher. For 43 years I have had one rule on exams: If a few students fail an exam then I consider the exam to have been fair, and those that failed take responsibility. If nearly the whole class fails, then there is something wrong with the exam or something wrong with MY instruction. The same holds true for the AP exams at the end of the school year. If a majority of my students earn a 1 on the exam (1-5 scale), then I am a failure (never had this; pass rate60-100% every year). So, I agree with you.

 

[HDK]

HRC,
I agree with you about 50% . I too have been always self motivted and have always tried to do as near a perfect job as humanly possible . However, one also works for rewards, an that is where a good boss,
leader , or coach comes in. He rewards , motivates, and encourages good work. He also discourages and
punishes the bad workers.
If a player is not doing his job, he is called out, corrected, and if that is not enough , that player rides the pines, and the next man steps in.
Lou is the perfect example, Waters and Brooks broke the rules before a hugh game, and Lou put them on a plane and sent them home. ND won the game without those key players.

Actually, the team voted to send them home.