Dear every poster that is against the Freeman hire

[Zorich 88]

Stop with the lack of experience argument. This argument is ridicules! You guys use this weak point because it is the only thing you can point to. You simply did not want the guy period, just say that. The lack of experience argument is a joke. However, lets look at this weak example of why ND should not have hired him.

1. So, if Freeman was a HC at a non power 5 school for 3-5 years and was successful, are you saying now he is ready to coach at ND? Are you saying guys like Riley, Day, Dabo, Kirby, Aranda
(I mention him because some on this board wanted him as the HC) would not be a coach you would want at ND because of lack of HC experience? Not one of these guys had any HC experience. Some of these guys were never even a coordinator.


Let's talk after Freeman's first season. Until then, keep your weak arguments to yourself.

​

 

[Get Nasty]

Curious, what's an acceptable record for ND next year where you think Freeman is on the right track?

For me, 9-3 at the ABSOLUTE worst regular season. 10-2 should be the barometer. 10-2 to me and you are still growing/improving the program. 9-3 we probably stay flat, and worse you're going to have impacts on recruiting. Better then that he has a good season to great (depending on how much better). Worse than 10-2 would be a disappointment. To me the key game is Clemson at home. Clemson will be better i'd expect but they won't be as good as they have been before last year. Obviously a win at Ohio State gives the opportunity for a special year. The next huge game we should win is at USC. you have to believe they will be better at the end of the year than the start. So we need to be playing well with momentum leading into the game.

Nd SHOULD be favored in every game but ohio state.

 

[Patrirish]

Stop with the lack of experience argument. This argument is ridicules! You guys use this weak point because it is the only thing you can point to. You simply did not want the guy period, just say that. The lack of experience argument is a joke. However, lets look at this weak example of why ND should not have hired him.

1. So, if Freeman was a HC at a non power 5 school for 3-5 years and was successful, are you saying now he is ready to coach at ND? Are you saying guys like Riley, Day, Dabo, Kirby, Aranda
(I mention him because some on this board wanted him as the HC) would not be a coach you would want at ND because of lack of HC experience? Not one of these guys had any HC experience. Some of these guys were never even a coordinator.


Let's talk after Freeman's first season. Until then, keep your weak arguments to yourself.

​

You must be brain dead, so let me try to help you understand the value of experience.

Start with a pilot then work your way up to a neurosurgeon and tell me that experience doesn’t matter.

Closer to home, how have guys with no prior head coaching experience fared as head coaches at ND ?

Faust, Davie, Weiss ?

Versus Ara, Devine, Holtz and Kelly

 

[echowaker]

You must be brain dead, so let me try to help you understand the value of experience.

Start with a pilot then work your way up to a neurosurgeon and tell me that experience doesn’t matter.

Closer to home, how have guys with no prior head coaching experience fared as head coaches at ND ?

Faust, Davie, Weiss ?

Versus Ara, Devine, Holtz and Kelly

The head coaching experience thing is so overblown. The right guy is the right guy. Charlie Weis was like the 7th choice for the job. Judging the hire based on past poor hires is idiotic. Holtz recommended Davie. I'm thinking Lou had a clue. Nothing is guaranteed. Gotta look at the entire picture.

 

[Zorich 88]

You must be brain dead, so let me try to help you understand the value of experience.

Start with a pilot then work your way up to a neurosurgeon and tell me that experience doesn’t matter.

Closer to home, how have guys with no prior head coaching experience fared as head coaches at ND ?

Faust, Davie, Weiss ?

Versus Ara, Devine, Holtz and Kelly

Okay, let me see if I can get my dead brain will start working.

1. Did you ever think just maybe, just maybe, the coaches you named just sucked as coaches?

All three went onto coach after leaving ND. All three continued to suck as a HC.

Faust was 43–53–3 at Akron
Davie 35–64 New Mexico
Weiss 41–49 Kansas

Lack of HC experience had nothing to do with their frailer at ND. They simply sucked.

Ty was Stanford's HC for 7 years, how did that work out???

 

[Jrayos19762]

Outside of Fickell, who had success in the AAC conference which is not Power 5 and best win was against ND who some on this board said had a failed season, who was the coach ND should have brought in that would have been a home run hire?

 

[mbd11]

Okay, let me see if I can get my dead brain working.

1. Did you ever think just maybe, just maybe, the coaches you named just sucked as coaches?

All three went onto coach after leaving ND. All three continued to suck as a HC.

Faust was 43–53–3 at Akron
Davie 35–64 New Mexico
Weiss 41–49 Kansas

Lack of HC experience had nothing to do with their frailer at ND. They simply sucked.

Ty was Stanford's HC for 7 years, how did that work out???

But that's the problem. With no experience, you don't know if he's any good as a HC or not. He may or may not be. But if you hire a proven successful HC, your chances of success are better.

Also, ND isn't a very good job to be learning on the job on. It's a very tough job. But it's too late to debate now IMO. The Freeman era has already started. Go Irish!!

 

[Zorich 88]

But that's the problem. With no experience, you don't know if he's any good as a HC or not. He may or may not be. But if you hire a proven successful HC, your chances of success are better.

Also, ND isn't a very good job to be learning on the job on. It's a very tough job. But it's too late to debate now IMO. The Freeman era has already started. Go Irish!!

Here the advantage of hiring from within:

1. The guy knows the culture of the University. I might have a different opinion if Freeman was an outside hire with no experience. The names I always bring up were also inside hires.

2. ND knows exactly what they are getting personality wise. Charlie, and Faust were outside no experience hires.

 

[Jrayos19762]

Experience is good but does not always translate to success..

Randy Edsell was a good coach at UCONN (his first time there) not much luck at Maryland...was a candidate when BK was hired.

Already mentioned Willingham

PJ Fleck who some love on this board...in 5 years at Minnesota has 35 wins which is an average of 7 wins per season (granted 2020 was shortened but their record was not that good)...the previous 5 years before Fleck, Minnesota had 37 wins...no considerable improvement

Harbaugh, his record at Michigan against inferior opponents was great but against ranked teams is awful, if it was not for this year there would be nothing to brag about and this was a coach that took a team to the Superbowl and multiple NFC title games plus had success at Stanford. If past experience was a predictor of success, he should have multiple NCs by now

Don't forget Scott Frost. The last two season at UCF went something like 25-1 and beat a 10-3 Auburn in a bowl game. He was the next great hire.

There a lot of HC coaches that are considered "the next big thing", very few live up to the hype. In the past 10 years, only 5 coaches have won National Championships (of which only 3 are currently coaching).

We should be glad that we have a passionate coach that wants to be here and not just looking for the stepping stone to their next job. BKs departure and Meyers rejection years ago should be a wake up call that ND is not the destination job it once was. If you have heard the rumblings over the past few years, this was not the first time BK was looking. No other school had offered him as much as LSU did.

 

[echowaker]

But that's the problem. With no experience, you don't know if he's any good as a HC or not. He may or may not be. But if you hire a proven successful HC, your chances of success are better.

Also, ND isn't a very good job to be learning on the job on. It's a very tough job. But it's too late to debate now IMO. The Freeman era has already started. Go Irish!!

Neither is Oklahoma. Neither of their previous two head coaches had any head coaching experience. Their new one doesn’t either. No easier there, another blue blood just like ND.

 

[mbd11]

Here the advantage of hiring from within:

1. The guy knows the culture of the University. I might have a different opinion if Freeman was an outside hire with no experience. The names I always bring up were also inside hires.

2. ND knows exactly what they are getting personality wise. Charlie, and Faust were outside no experience hires.

Which is why this hire reminds me of the Davie hire more than any others. There are a lot of parallels. A long-time successful coach steps down and they promote the DC with no HC experience to the job. Davie went 35-25 with no bowl wins. Hopefully Freeman will do better.

 

[BloodOfIrish]

Haters will hate.

All they see is the headline and not the warts that were under it.

ND had some real warts this year. From coaching to on field performance. That changing the name on the plate wasn't going to fix in a couple of weeks.

Freeman needs time to figure out his position. And his staff. And judging him on one game a couple weeks after the guy was hired is just stupid.

So many people are so worried about him being Davie or Willingham that they won't accept that he might be the next Dabo or Fisher.

 

[Jrayos19762]

Haters will hate.

All they see is the headline and not the warts that were under it.

ND had some real warts this year. From coaching to on field performance. That changing the name on the plate wasn't going to fix in a couple of weeks.

Freeman needs time to figure out his position. And his staff. And judging him on one game a couple weeks after the guy was hired is just stupid.

So many people are so worried about him being Davie or Willingham that they won't accept that he might be the next Dabo or Fisher.

Agree...great post.

 

[Get Nasty]

I’m not big on needing HC experience but I wish he had done a better job coordinating our D first…. We struggled va the offenses we played with a passing game pulse or mobile qb

 

[Zorich 88]

Which is why this hire reminds me of the Davie hire more than any others. There are a lot of parallels. A long-time successful coach steps down and they promote the DC with no HC experience to the job. Davie went 35-25 with no bowl wins. Hopefully Freeman will do better.

So, because the hire as one thing in common (hire from within) you are fearful that Freeman will be Davie 2.0?

Come on, your better than that.

 

[Zorich 88]

I’m not big on needing HC experience but I wish he had done a better job coordinating our D first…. We struggled va the offenses we played with a passing game pulse or mobile qb

Both of those concerns will be addressed by better CB and LB recruiting. CB was my biggest concern from the start of the season. Second was LB. Coaches can coach all they want, if the player is not at the level of the competition, they will get exposed eventually.

 

[Golson5]

I’m not big on needing HC experience but I wish he had done a better job coordinating our D first…. We struggled va the offenses we played with a passing game pulse or mobile qb

You keep telling us how bad our secondary is and how slow our linebackers are.

Why are you surprised then?

 

[Patrirish]

Okay, let me see if I can get my dead brain will start working.

1. Did you ever think just maybe, just maybe, the coaches you named just sucked as coaches?

All three went onto coach after leaving ND. All three continued to suck as a HC.

Faust was 43–53–3 at Akron
Davie 35–64 New Mexico
Weiss 41–49 Kansas

Lack of HC experience had nothing to do with their frailer at ND. They simply sucked.

Ty was Stanford's HC for 7 years, how did that work out???

Ty was a default choice with a worse W/L record than the coach he replaced

Lack of experience had everything to do with those failures.
ND essentially promoted unqualified assistants to positions above their abilities

That’s why you look for a HC with a very good track record, a proven success.

You don’t gamble with the team’s future!

 

[Patrirish]

The head coaching experience thing is so overblown. The right guy is the right guy. Charlie Weis was like the 7th choice for the job. Judging the hire based on past poor hires is idiotic. Holtz recommended Davie. I'm thinking Lou had a clue. Nothing is guaranteed. Gotta look at the entire picture.

If you don’t learn from history you’re condemned to repeat it.

How do you know who’s the right guy ?
You don’t gamble with the unknown, you pick someone with an outstanding record as a head coach.

it’s not idiotic, it’s prudent, it clearly indicates that transitioning from an assistant coach to a head coach is a very challenging and difficult task that produces far more failures than successes.

But I almost forgot, you don’t believe in statistics and analytics.

As to the Head Coaching experience being “overblown”, I know about a half a dozen NFL owners that would disagree with you.

You supported the hiring of Freeman so you have to defend it.

But given the choice of having one of two neurosurgeons operate on your kids, do you pick the one who is highly regarded, experienced and with a great success rate, or the resident who has never performed that operation before ?

Only an ignorant fool would pick the latter.

Case closed.

 

[Patrirish]

Haters will hate.

All they see is the headline and not the warts that were under it.

ND had some real warts this year. From coaching to on field performance. That changing the name on the plate wasn't going to fix in a couple of weeks.

Freeman needs time to figure out his position. And his staff. And judging him on one game a couple weeks after the guy was hired is just stupid.

So many people are so worried about him being Davie or Willingham that they won't accept that he might be the next Dabo or Fisher.

Remember what Remo Gaggi stated !

 

[mbd11]

So, because the hire as one thing in common (hire from within) you are fearful that Freeman will be Davie 2.0?

Come on, your better than that.

If you look at the history of ND football, our most successful coaches have been the ones with previous successful HC experience (except Rockne, which was obviously a very different era).

Frank Leahy - Boston College
Ara Parseghian - Northwestern
Lou Holtz - Arkansas, Minnesota, etc.
Brian Kelly - CMU, Cincinnati
Dan Devine - Arizona State, Missouri

Other programs might have different results, but at Notre Dame, those coaches have been the most successful.

 

[Drinking The Green Koolaid]

If you don’t learn from history you’re condemned to repeat it.

How do you know who’s the right guy ?
You don’t gamble with the unknown, you pick someone with an outstanding record as a head coach.

it’s not idiotic, it’s prudent, it clearly indicates that transitioning from an assistant coach to a head coach is a very challenging and difficult task that produces far more failures than successes.

But I almost forgot, you don’t believe in statistics and analytics.

As to the Head Coaching experience being “overblown”, I know about a half a dozen NFL owners that would disagree with you.

You supported the hiring of Freeman so you have to defend it.

But given the choice of having one of two neurosurgeons operate on your kids, do you pick the one who is highly regarded, experienced and with a great success rate, or the resident who has never performed that operation before ?

Only an ignorant fool would pick the latter.

Case closed.

Comparing piloting an airplane or performing brain surgery with being the head coach of a college football team is a false equivalence and hardly serves to support the argument you are trying to make. The former are highly technical skills that possibly involve life or death decisions. Last time I looked, nobody has died from choosing a football coach. You don't like the Freeman hire, we get that, but you don't win an argument by making illogical or absurd comparisons to state your case and then suggest those who disagree with your logic are "ignorant fools."

 

[Zorich 88]

Ty was a default choice with a worse W/L record than the coach he replaced

Lack of experience had everything to do with those failures.
ND essentially promoted unqualified assistants to positions above their abilities

That’s why you look for a HC with a very good track record, a proven success.

You don’t gamble with the team’s future!

So basically, this brain dead poster just destroyed your three examples of coaches. Charlie, Faust and Davie all sucked during and after ND. It had nothing t do with experience or lack thereof.

 

[Zorich 88]

If you look at the history of ND football, our most successful coaches have been the ones with previous successful HC experience (except Rockne, which was obviously a very different era).

Frank Leahy - Boston College
Ara Parseghian - Northwestern
Lou Holtz - Arkansas, Minnesota, etc.
Brian Kelly - CMU, Cincinnati
Dan Devine - Arizona State, Missouri

Other programs might have different results, but at Notre Dame, those coaches have been the most successful.

Are you saying Riley, Day and Dabo would have been bad hires for ND because they had zero HC experience?

 

[mbd11]

Are you saying Riley, Day and Dabo would have been bad hires for ND because they had zero HC experience?

Not at all. I said at Notre Dame, our most successful coaches have had previous HC experience. That's a fact. I'm not talking about other schools.

 

[echowaker]

If you don’t learn from history you’re condemned to repeat it.

How do you know who’s the right guy ?
You don’t gamble with the unknown, you pick someone with an outstanding record as a head coach.

it’s not idiotic, it’s prudent, it clearly indicates that transitioning from an assistant coach to a head coach is a very challenging and difficult task that produces far more failures than successes.

But I almost forgot, you don’t believe in statistics and analytics.

As to the Head Coaching experience being “overblown”, I know about a half a dozen NFL owners that would disagree with you.

You supported the hiring of Freeman so you have to defend it.

But given the choice of having one of two neurosurgeons operate on your kids, do you pick the one who is highly regarded, experienced and with a great success rate, or the resident who has never performed that operation before ?

Only an ignorant fool would pick the latter.

Case closed.

Tell Oklahoma.

 

[echowaker]

If you don’t learn from history you’re condemned to repeat it.

How do you know who’s the right guy ?
You don’t gamble with the unknown, you pick someone with an outstanding record as a head coach.

it’s not idiotic, it’s prudent, it clearly indicates that transitioning from an assistant coach to a head coach is a very challenging and difficult task that produces far more failures than successes.

But I almost forgot, you don’t believe in statistics and analytics.

As to the Head Coaching experience being “overblown”, I know about a half a dozen NFL owners that would disagree with you.

You supported the hiring of Freeman so you have to defend it.

But given the choice of having one of two neurosurgeons operate on your kids, do you pick the one who is highly regarded, experienced and with a great success rate, or the resident who has never performed that operation before ?

Only an ignorant fool would pick the latter.

Case closed.

Stupid take but not surprising. Totally clueless.

 

[echowaker]

Not at all. I said at Notre Dame, our most successful coaches have had previous HC experience. That's a fact. I'm not talking about other schools.

Experience doesn't guarantee success any more than the lack of it guarantees failure.

 

[Jrayos19762]

Tell Oklahoma.

Other than Fickell, who has a similar path to Scott Frost (successful AAC coach, how is that working out for Nebraska), who is the established coach that ND should have hired?

 

[Get Nasty]

You keep telling us how bad our secondary is and how slow our linebackers are.

Why are you surprised then?

Because we had one of the best dlines talent wise and depth wise and it was underutilized. Foskey was dropping into coverage a ton vs OK state so Bertrand and or White could come crashing in and miss a tackle.

Bertrand and White have some good qualities, blitzing was not EVER one of them. If we had just gone 4 man front and only ever bring one extra occasionally from different places and made OK St earn it, different ball game.

Also there were times where they gave Hart safety help. WHY? Why ever give him safety help and leave lewis on an island. Hart gave up maybe 1 reception for 5 yards vs ok st.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

Other than Fickell, who has a similar path to Scott Frost (successful AAC coach, how is that working out for Nebraska), who is the established coach that ND should have hired?

Fickell is not Frost. List the names of coaches that have made the playoffs.

Saban
Dabo
Meyer
Day
Kelly
Riley
Harbaugh
Smart
FICKELL

When is the last time Nebraska had 2 undefeated regular seasons, nearly beat Georgia, beat a Notre Dame team fresh off the playoffs, made the playoffs, and actually played pretty well against Alabama? Actually please don’t even respond because there is no refuting this fact. Fickell has proven he’s elite.

 

[Jrayos19762]

Fickell is not Frost. List the names of coaches that have made the playoffs. You’re a jackass.

Saban
Dabo
Meyer
Day
Kelly
Riley
Harbaugh
Smart
FICKELL

When is the last time Nebraska had 2 undefeated regular seasons, nearly beat Georgia, beat a Notre Dame team fresh off the playoffs, made the playoffs, and actually played pretty well against Alabama? Actually please don’t even respond because there is no refuting this fact. Fickell has proven he’s elite.

How old are you that you are resorting to name calling? Keep it above board.

By the way, Frost went something like 25-1 in the AAC (same conference as Fickell) over a 2 year period , beat a 10-3 Auburn in their bowl. Many thought they belonged in the CFP. Unlike Fickell, he beat a ranked SEC team in a bowl game (Fickell 0-2). It was well documented months ago, the fact that UCF got snubbed played at least a small part in the committee selecting Cincy. They couldn't snub two undefeated Power 5 teams and claim that every school has a chance at the playoffs.

As an honest ND fan, this year's team is not comparable to last year's that went to the playoff. Look at the ND games against FSU, Toledo and Virginia Tech games. Each game was won by 3 points. If you only beat Toledo by 3 points, you are not a CFP team.


Your comment about Nebraska proves my point. Since he went to Nebraska, his record has been bad. Success in a group of 5 conference does not automatically equate to elite coach.

Fickell is a good coach but not a guaranteed home run hire. We will not know if Fickell is the next Saban until he is hired at a big time program.

By the way if you are going to credit Fickell for almost beating Georgia last year then you should credit Freeman for almost beating OK St. It has to go both ways.

 

[ftnfan62]

I'm certainly not negative, I just flat out have no idea. I have nothing to go by other than his defense this year and a bowl game. Clark seemed to do more with less and the bowl game, well we saw that.

You hire a Saban, Urban or a Dabo you have a slam dunk. We have what people say is a really good up and coming coach. We just don't know. We all will know in one year. He has great talent and is stocked. This doesn't seem like he will need 3 years to get "his guys". He has talent.

I can say I hope he is the next Rockne

 

[Jrayos19762]

I'm certainly not negative, I just flat out have no idea. I have nothing to go by other than his defense this year and a bowl game. Clark seemed to do more with less and the bowl game, well we saw that.

You hire a Saban, Urban or a Dabo you have a slam dunk. We have what people say is a really good up and coming coach. We just don't know. We all will know in one year. He has great talent and is stocked. This doesn't seem like he will need 3 years to get "his guys". He has talent.

I can say I hope he is the next Rockne

Most would agree that if Saban or Dabo wanted to come to ND, they should do whatever it takes to get them (given Meyer's recent transgressions, most schools will not touch him for a couple of years). However, Saban and Dabo are happy where they are. No proven elite coach is banging down NDs door. The closest thing this year was Matt Campbell from Iowa State. He is not elite but has had success at a D1 school and supposedly was interested in ND.

A lot of people wanted Fickell. ND probably contacted his agent to get a sense of his interest. My guess is it wasn't as strong as they would have liked. It was being reported that Swarbrick wanted Fickell. There was a risk if ND waited on Fickell and he said no, then what...it is almost a repeat of what happened when ND wanted to hire Meyer.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

How old are you that you are resorting to name calling? Keep it above board.

By the way, Frost went something like 25-1 in the AAC (same conference as Fickell) over a 2 year period , beat a 10-3 Auburn in their bowl. Many thought they belonged in the CFP. Unlike Fickell, he beat a ranked SEC team in a bowl game (Fickell 0-2). It was well documented months ago, the fact that UCF got snubbed played at least a small part in the committee selecting Cincy. They couldn't snub two undefeated Power 5 teams and claim that every school has a chance at the playoffs.

As an honest ND fan, this year's team is not comparable to last year's that went to the playoff. Look at the ND games against FSU, Toledo and Virginia Tech games. Each game was won by 3 points. If you only beat Toledo by 3 points, you are not a CFP team.


Your comment about Nebraska proves my point. Since he went to Nebraska, his record has been bad. Success in a group of 5 conference does not automatically equate to elite coach.

Fickell is a good coach but not a guaranteed home run hire. We will not know if Fickell is the next Saban until he is hired at a big time program.

In your list you forgot Orgeron. Is he elite? According to the LSU fan base, no.

Good call reporting me over a soft swear word, used even in PG movies. Touché. Sorry for making you feel bad.

 

[ftnfan62]

I dont think Fickell is much more of a proven candidate than Freeman. I think either are good choices. Go big or go home. We went home.

We got caught flat footed. Seems like boosters should have been lined up to land a huge name that was already greased. I cant imagine they really had no idea BK was looking. Hopefully Jack learned and is already looking for someone after Freeman. Its just business to be prepared.

 

[Jrayos19762]

Good call reporting me over a soft swear word, used even in PG movies. Touché. Sorry for making you feel bad.

People can debate without resorting to name calling, it happens all the time.

 

[echowaker]

Fickell is not Frost. List the names of coaches that have made the playoffs.

Saban
Dabo
Meyer
Day
Kelly
Riley
Harbaugh
Smart
FICKELL

When is the last time Nebraska had 2 undefeated regular seasons, nearly beat Georgia, beat a Notre Dame team fresh off the playoffs, made the playoffs, and actually played pretty well against Alabama? Actually please don’t even respond because there is no refuting this fact. Fickell has proven he’s elite.

Dantonio and Petersen too.

 

[echowaker]

Most would agree that if Saban or Dabo wanted to come to ND, they should do whatever it takes to get them (given Meyer's recent transgressions, most schools will not touch him for a couple of years). However, Saban and Dabo are happy where they are. No proven elite coach is banging down NDs door. The closest thing this year was Matt Campbell from Iowa State. He is not elite but has had success at a D1 school and supposedly was interested in ND.

A lot of people wanted Fickell. ND probably contacted his agent to get a sense of his interest. My guess is it wasn't as strong as they would have liked. It was being reported that Swarbrick wanted Fickell. There was a risk if ND waited on Fickell and he said no, then what...it is almost a repeat of what happened when ND wanted to hire Meyer.

ND was not in a position to wait and Fickell was not going to do anything until after their playoff appearance was over. Horrible timing.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

ND was not in a position to wait and Fickell was not going to do anything until after their playoff appearance was over. Horrible timing.

Hell, if Fickell turned us down so be it. There were other decent coaches. ISU, Aranda, Franklin, Patterson, Petersen, Bob Stoops, Fitz, Wittingham, Gundy, Rhule.Not saying all are an upgrade from Kelly, but those are some strong names.