Yikes...
Hartman is way better than Coan
And Freeman has Angeli and Minchey and Carr remaining so I think he wins on both accounts....
Brian Kelly
- Thread starter edub72
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Hartman is way better than Coan
And Freeman has Angeli and Minchey and Carr remaining so I think he wins on both accounts....
You obviously know the list of games I could throw out a should have wins under BK
And osu shouldn't be on that list for should have beatens. Thats the best game we played the entire year and he had less than a month and not a full coaching staff too play with.
Hiring God coaches and recruiting well is how you build a program. Check and check
Not one of the quarterbacks you named are championship level quarterbacks. Hartman might just be.
Yikes? The point is that Kelly got a good QB and didn’t settle for what he had. Its not about who is better. My post to banmate wasn’t about Kelly but Freeman.
Tone it down with the arrogance. My post has nothing to do with how good Coan is vs Hartman.
One difference is that Kelly would have settled for what he had....because he thinks he compensates for the average gap his quarterbacks bring...as opposed to getting better quarterbacks. And morever, his "compensation" ruins the quarterbacks he has. He chisels away at their skillset and confidence level. Freeman lets them use that skillset.
My post wasn’t about who is better regarding Coan vs. Hartman. Just that Kelly got a good QB instead of sitting on his roster.
Thats it. Freeman getting Hartman doesn’t mean he gets it while Kelly doesn’t.
ND was up 28-7 and gave up 612 yards of offense to Okie. ND was lucky to only give up 37 points.
Agree with good coaches and recruiting. That’s still only part of it though.
Best we've played in a NY6 game since....Holtz? Also the best game we played on the year. New DC for a NY6 game, kind of the reason he's still not with us.
Closest NY6 game in a long time. Agree.
I can’t pick a game and say which is the best from the year. But getting carved up by a 60ish ranked offense makes it hard for me to call that the best game of the year.
All I’m saying is Freeman hasn’t proven much. Going 4-0 with three cupcakes doesn’t say a whole lot. We’ll have a better idea at the end of this year and years 3-4.
Coan was a statue, who was taken out several times during the season and replaced by Buchner, and it wasn't due to big leads. Hartman we knew was the starter period. Only way Hartman comes out is when ND has a huge lead or he gets hurt. It goes back to evaluating QB talent, and Freeman is much better at identifying talent than BK. If you can't see that then I can't help you.
For what it's worth, I thought Coan was pretty damned good. His biggest weakness was he was so slow and seemed to walk right into sacks, but some of that was due to an offensive line that didn't give him much time to even look downfield.
If Freeman goes 12-1 this year, he is definitely the guy. No doubt about it IMO
Well, he beat Clemson in year 1 without their starting QB being out. Kelly also lost games he shouldn’t have (Tulsa, Navy, USF) early in his ND tenure. Freeman is a breath of fresh air. When he fails, he actually takes some accountability for it. That hasn’t happened in awhile
I’m guessing and hoping it does. Again, it’s not to bash CBK, but rather to see gold in Freeman. I consider Reed a continuation of CBK I’m this context.
These are small and early signals. But I’ve not seen a strong ND QB situation since Weis with Quinn and Clausen. Charlie had other deep flaws, but at least identified and developed QBs.
Hartman looks like the real deal with a much more complete team. Freeman must have something to do with what CBK and Rees couldn’t do. I’m hanging on to this…next week will say a lot on Hartman being real, ND as a team, and Freeman as coach.
Fingers crossed.
Check Larry Coker’s résumé. Won a title and went downhill from there. He didn’t have the talent and didn’t build/manage the program.
Even Brian Kelly. Excellent résumé. He had a proven track record at 4 schools including ND (2010-2012). There was a whole lot of mediocrity in his first 5-7 years. Took him a while to get consistent results.
A guy with zero head coaching experience like Freeman, I’m not buying anything until after year 3.
Larry Coker was handed a NC roster on a platter by Butch Jones. This is not the same thing at all.
Brian Kelly’s failures were hiring his buddies or yes men.
Id say Coker was handed one of the greatest college rosters ever...
No doubt! I have no idea where the “no talent” idea came from. It shocked me to read that as I thought EVERYONE agreed with it
I agree on Brian Kelly’s failures in addition to being a blame shifter and probable lazy/bad recruiter. Probably didn’t foster a family atmosphere either.
However, Freeman still took over a program that won a bunch of game over the previous 5 years by a proven coach.
Look at Willingham/Weis. One winning season in four years prior to Weis’ arrival. 10-3 smoke and mirrors type season. Bare freshman and sophomore classes and Weis just barely misses out on playing for a national title in year 1.
What happened in years 3-5? Part of it can be written off due to the bare recruiting classes, but even still, those teams massively underperformed. Why? He couldn’t build a program.
He didn’t have the talent in the later years is what I was saying.
Obviously its practically a guarantee that it takes talent to win a title. Do you really think I’m saying Miami had no talent?
Later in the tenure is what I’m referring to. Coker himself I’m pretty sure said he was relying too much on sites like Rivals. Miami was really good for three years but went downhill every year he was there. He didn’t recruit well enough/properly and didn’t build a program. He was gifted one.
I get where you are coming from, but there were obviously position groups that were severely lacking when Kelly left (QB/WR/S). Those positions alone keep us out of realistic title contention. I’m not saying Freeman was handed what Weis had to take over, but he didn’t get a Larry Coker roster either. He was handed a solid team with some glaring weaknesses.
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Gotcha! I thought you were saying he was given a subpar roster, built it up, won a NC, but couldn’t sustain it.
Well, Coker was definitely a crap coach and didn’t sustain a very good roster. No argument there whatsoever
Yeah, I mean the guy got absolutely hammered for yelling at TJ Jones on National TV. They certainly weren’t hiding his tantrum then. Purple faced emojis flooded the internet 😂
Brian Kelly's first 15 games at Notre Dame: 8-7
Brian Kelly's first 15 games at LSU: 10-5
Marcus Freeman's most recent 15 games at Notre Dame: 13-2
Brian Kelly called a fade route from inside the 15 yard line with under a minute left against Tulsa a field goal would have won. Pass was intercepted and ND lost.
Brian Kelly went for two after going up 11 on Northwestern in the 4th Qtr when kicking and going up 12 would have forced 2 TDs instead of a TD+2 and a FG, which is exactly what happened and ND lost in overtime.
Brian Kelly never won a NY6/playoff game and never recruited a single QB to start in the NFL or last more than a couple years as a backup. The last 3 QB he recruited are now either a backup for a good team or playing poorly as a starter for a bad team.
It's too early to tell whether Marcus Freeman will be better, but I strongly believe he will be and either way, it was long past time for Brian Kelly to leave. Anyone who believes otherwise really just doesn't know much about the game of college football.
Brian Kelly went for two after going up 11 on Northwestern in the 4th Qtr when kicking and going up 12 would have forced 2 TDs instead of a TD+2 and a FG, which is exactly what happened and ND lost in overtime.
Brian Kelly never won a NY6/playoff game and never recruited a single QB to start in the NFL or last more than a couple years as a backup. The last 3 QB he recruited are now either a backup for a good team or playing poorly as a starter for a bad team.
It's too early to tell whether Marcus Freeman will be better, but I strongly believe he will be and either way, it was long past time for Brian Kelly to leave. Anyone who believes otherwise really just doesn't know much about the game of college football.
I'm a supporter of Coach Freeman and frankly anyone who is our HC.
But let's be honest----he lost to Stanford and Marshall last year who he had a much better roster than.
Past that there is no question he got left a program in much better shape than the one Kelly inherited.
You can hate Kelly all you want but those are facts.
But let's be honest----he lost to Stanford and Marshall last year who he had a much better roster than.
Past that there is no question he got left a program in much better shape than the one Kelly inherited.
You can hate Kelly all you want but those are facts.
So Kelly's ND roster in his first year wasn't better than Navy and Tulsa? Really? How about 6 years in, in 2016, and ND goes 4-8 with Kelly's players? Was ND's roster better than Duke's, NC State's, or Navy's?
He did inherit a better "program".
But looking back Kelly inherited a team with more "talent"
Freeman is 13 and 4 right now. Kelly was 10 and 7 after 17 games not including the bowl game
Your facts are correct. But as I posted earlier, I see signals that Freeman could surpass a CBK who evolved through adversity, but who ultimately didn't get the max from his players. Because Freeman has a charisma and football Xs and Os judgement to attract and ensure the right game plan consistently...withstanding some mistakes last season, which I actually attribute to Tommy.
Well, Freeman made the right calls since. Got an effective staff with an effective game plan. Got Hartman. Leverages Estime. Just seems ND is playing to potential, the whole greater than the sum of the parts.
It's good Freeman inherited a good ship from CBK. Kudos to CBK, again, I wish him the best. Fingers crossed that Freeman proves my hopes this weekend against Ohio State.
Showtime.
want to BUMP this to the top.
That "really good Mississippi State team" that you highlighted, to artificially elevate LSU's win (and your flawed F+ ratings references), is about to go 2-3 .....as its down 37-17 with 9 mins left against Bama. What are MSU's wins? Their signature wins are over Arizona (in OT) and SE Louisiana! LOL
And what say you about LSU giving up 55 points and 700 yards? LMFAO. What were their F+ rankings again?
What the hell have you been watching the last 12 years? NBC showed him many times having a meltdown.
Assuming I live that long, which is BY NO MEANS, guaranteed, I will be looking to see if Marcus Freeman can match Brian Kelly's 6-year run of winning a hair under 86% of his games. Yes, Kelly did it at the end. But if Freeman, as you "strongly believe," is truly better, he'd probably be able to do it SOONER, no?
Assuming he does it AT ALL.
LSU played and lost to Ole Miss not Miss St. MSU lost to Alabama
Winning percentage doesn't mean squat if you NEVER WIN the BIG GAMES, the games that MATTER MOST!
