Aranda

[stu4don]

the 2.5 million dollar man at LSU... Venables makes 2.1 mill at Clemson.... How will ND compete? Will we lose guys like Lea and Long if we continue to win this season?

If Venables and Aranda jump to the head coaching ranks (FSU, imagine Aranda with USC's talent?!) Do teams like LSU, teams flush with money (donor money goes to football not to the general U, unlike ND) come after our young assistants? Will ND step up?

Don't mean to piss in anyone's beer. Just wonder what people are thinking?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/12/...ck&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage&section=Sports

 

[NotreDomer1]

Lea has to prove that he belongs in that group before we pay him that much. Those guys have had great defensive teams basically their whole career. Lea has only had half a season. Recruiting is also a big key to it.

It was a big mistake giving Weis that contract 5 games into his tenure. Let’s not make the same mistake again.

 

[echowaker]

the 2.5 million dollar man at LSU... Venables makes 2.1 mill at Clemson.... How will ND compete? Will we lose guys like Lea and Long if we continue to win this season?

If Venables and Aranda jump to the head coaching ranks (FSU, imagine Aranda with USC's talent?!) Do teams like LSU, teams flush with money (donor money goes to football not to the general U, unlike ND) come after our young assistants? Will ND step up?

Don't mean to piss in anyone's beer. Just wonder what people are thinking?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/12/...ck&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage&section=Sports

define step up ? they stepped up and gave elko what he wanted , then he wanted more. i would imagine those guys will get a crack at running their own program one day.

 

[88ND]

https://www.onefootdown.com/2018/5/...ian-vangorder-mike-brey-muffet-jack-swarbrick

https://chairgatin.com/football/most-over-paid-college-football-coaches/

https://ndnation.com/boards/showpost.php?b=football;pid=263393;d=this

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/

Which is correct...who the hell knows.

One thing is certain Notre Dame better realize it's not a day people are clawing at the door to coach here..
They better be willing to pony up with the elites to be elite.

 

[chaseball]

https://www.onefootdown.com/2018/5/...ian-vangorder-mike-brey-muffet-jack-swarbrick

https://chairgatin.com/football/most-over-paid-college-football-coaches/

https://ndnation.com/boards/showpost.php?b=football;pid=263393;d=this

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/

Which is correct...who the hell knows.

One thing is certain Notre Dame better realize it's not a day people are clawing at the door to coach here..
They better be willing to pony up with the elites to be elite.

Agreed .. ND is typically so slow to evolve on these type of matters. The market for elite assistant coaches is sky rocketing. ND BETTER BE READY/PREPARED TO COMPETE IN THIS MARKET. Not 5 years from now after they lose a bunch of games and their best coordinators are on other sidelines.

 

[FriedmanIP]

Agreed .. ND is typically so slow to evolve on these type of matters. The market for elite assistant coaches is sky rocketing. ND BETTER BE READY/PREPARED TO COMPETE IN THIS MARKET. Not 5 years from now after they lose a bunch of games and their best coordinators are on other sidelines.

We’ve done just fine with this recently, keeping Long despite interest from Alabama and offer Elko BIG money, but knowing when to let a guy walk.

Have to keep managing things well, though.

 

[mirer03]

Teams have already sniffed around Chip Long. I have a feeling we will lose him after Books eligibility assuming the offense keeps improving. He has designs on a head coach spot and i think he will be a little choosy about where he goes. Not sure about Lea. Hes half a season in so id issume we should be able to keep him for at least 3-4 years so he can demonstrate the ability to recruit and remain a top defense . I do not know if he has major aspirations beyond nd, but its been reported he likes ND so hopefully he will stay. Ideally wed have a bud foster on our hands, but i doubt that will be the case.

 

[chaseball]

Lea has to prove that he belongs in that group before we pay him that much. Those guys have had great defensive teams basically their whole career. Lea has only had half a season. Recruiting is also a big key to it.

It was a big mistake giving Weis that contract 5 games into his tenure. Let’s not make the same mistake again.

In 2018 with a fast evolving market for top assistant coaches .. you don't have the benefit of waiting around for everything to be proven 100% before you take a chance.

You need to be out in front of trends and be prepared to lose money if things don't work out. Or you are going to lose your best talent.

 

[FriedmanIP]

In 2018 with a fast evolving market for top assistant coaches .. you don't have the benefit of waiting around for everything to be proven 100% before you take a chance.

You need to be out in front of trends and be prepared to lose money if things don't work out. Or you are going to lose your best talent.

Not really true.

There is no need to offer big money to unproven guys in today’s market, as there isn’t a major push from other institutions to hire unproven guys.

Once they have 2+ years of proof, different story.

You’re as wrong here as you always are in your stare gazing recruit “analysis”

 

[chaseball]

Not really true.

There is no need to offer big money to unproven guys in today’s market, as there isn’t a major push from other institutions to hire unproven guys.

Once they have 2+ years of proof, different story.

I disagree. Clark Lea's stock is rising as fast as anyone's right now. If ND makes a playoff push and the defense continues to be as dominant over the remaining 6 games as they were the first half, deep pocket blue bloods are going to come knocking. ND can't afford to hem and haw like they have in the past in these situations. They need to be ready to compete in a fast evolving market in regards to assistant coaching salaries.

 

[FriedmanIP]

I disagree. Clark Lea's stock is rising as fast as anyone's right now. If ND makes a playoff push and the defense continues to be as dominant over the remaining 6 games as they were the first half, deep pocket blue bloods are going to come knocking. ND can't afford to hem and haw like they have in the past in these situations. They need to be ready to compete in a fast evolving market in regards to assistant coaching salaries.

Wrong.

Major programs will not be coming tonoffer big dollars to a 1st year DC. Especially not one who had tons of veteran players in his only year as a DC.

You’re such a clown.
You clearly know absolutely nothing about football and/or the CFB landscape.

 

[chaseball]

Major programs will not be coming tonoffer big dollars to a 1st year DC. Especially not one who had tons of veteran players in his only year as a DC.

In 2005 you would probably be right. But in 2018, with the kind of money being made now, there's less talent to go around than there are dollars. Deep pocket programs are willing more than ever to take aggressive chances on top up and coming assistants. ND nickel and dimed Elko last year with TAM .. i'm hoping that is more of a result of knowing what they had in Clark Lea and not a simple refusal to evolve to this new market.

As ND fans we all know how important a good defensive coordinator is...Brian Kelly has done the job of identifying a couple of really good ones (although Lea still has a lot to prove -- he's gotten off to as good a start as ND could have possibly hoped for). Now the administration needs to do their job and come up with the resources necessary to retain their talent WITHOUT being slow to evolve to this new market.

ND has a track record of learning these things the hard way (they like to lose a bunch of games first and adjust 5 years too late). We've already seen it with Elko. Hopefully Lea and Long aren't another casualty.

 

[88ND]

Teams have already sniffed around Chip Long. I have a feeling we will lose him after Books eligibility assuming the offense keeps improving. He has designs on a head coach spot and i think he will be a little choosy about where he goes. Not sure about Lea. Hes half a season in so id issume we should be able to keep him for at least 3-4 years so he can demonstrate the ability to recruit and remain a top defense . I do not know if he has major aspirations beyond nd, but its been reported he likes ND so hopefully he will stay. Ideally wed have a bud foster on our hands, but i doubt that will be the case.

That would be amazing but I won't hold my breath.
The bud foster situations of the world are the black sheep now. Loyalty and being humble at certain levels are a thing of the past.
While I hope the whole staff would stay current trends say otherwise.

 

[FriedmanIP]

In 2005 you would probably be right. But in 2018, with the kind of money being made now, there's less talent to go around than there are dollars. Deep pocket programs are willing more than ever to take aggressive chances on top up and coming assistants. ND nickel and dimed Elko last year with TAM .. i'm hoping that is more of a result of knowing what they had in Clark Lea and not a simple refusal to evolve to this new market.

As ND fans we all know how important a good defensive coordinator is...Brian Kelly has done the job of identifying a couple of really good ones (although Lea still has a lot to prove -- he's gotten off to as good a start as ND could have possibly hoped for). Now the administration needs to do their job and come up with the resources necessary to retain their talent WITHOUT being slow to evolve to this new market.

ND has a track record of learning these things the hard way (they like to lose a bunch of games first and adjust 5 years too late). We've already seen it with Elko. Hopefully Lea and Long aren't another casualty.

This is 100% WRONG.
Just factually incorrect.

1. No big time programs are coming to offer a 1st year DC major money in 2018. Not happening.
You’re a know-nothing clown.

2. ND offered Elko a package that would have made him the 2nd highest paid DC in the nation, behind only Aranda. He then accepted that offer.
ND only told him to kick rocks after he tried to come back for even more money after already accepting that offer, because A&M kept pursuing. That wasn’t about money (obviously) but rather about who you want in your program.
No “nickel and diming” ever happened.

You’re just a know-nothing clown to runs his mouth, and gets laughed at.




ND is doing just fine in this area now.

 

[NDAFArly]

BVG’s first 4-5 games were really good.
After shutting out Michigan people wanted to give him a lifetime contract.
ND gave Weis a 10 year extension after 6 games...

ND offered Elko way more than they should have. (1.5 million) & he agreed to it, then left anyways.
Unlike Elko, Lea loves it at ND.
Long will leave regardless because he dreams of being a HC. If ND makes the CFP he will get HC interviews this offseason.

People saying ND doesn’t compete with salaries axtually are clueless & looking for (more) reasons to complain. ND pays a lot more than what you think.

 

[tkirish]

As much as I want ND to win, I don't want to see coaches make ridiculous amounts of money. Like anything else, once you go down that path, where does it end? Coaches like Saban, Meyer and Fisher , in my opinion are way overpaid. It may not seem like it anymore but it's still considered an amature sport. Also, ND likes to put the emphasis on "student" in student/athlete. I know i'm probably in the minority in saying this. That's how I feel. Coaches can still be paid a handsome salary. I just can't see paying them a kings ransom just to win football games.

 

[88ND]

This is 100% WRONG.
Just factually incorrect.

ND is doing just fine

This is 100% WRONG.
Just factually incorrect.

ND is doing just fine in this area now.
And the highly sought after coaches they've kept would be?

Sure they offered Elko the kitchen sink but fact remains they didn't in the end keep him.

When we get an assistant who has everyone throwing bread at him and we do wind up keeping him in the end that's when I'll say ND is doing fine opening the vault.

They now know the money that's at play for a good coach.

If you want to win...you've got to go all in.

 

[twalsh]

the 2.5 million dollar man at LSU... Venables makes 2.1 mill at Clemson.... How will ND compete? Will we lose guys like Lea and Long if we continue to win this season?

If Venables and Aranda jump to the head coaching ranks (FSU, imagine Aranda with USC's talent?!) Do teams like LSU, teams flush with money (donor money goes to football not to the general U, unlike ND) come after our young assistants? Will ND step up?

Don't mean to piss in anyone's beer. Just wonder what people are thinking?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/12/...ck&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage&section=Sports

I am thinking I hope we beat Pitt.

 

[chaseball]

As much as I want ND to win, I don't want to see coaches make ridiculous amounts of money. Like anything else, once you go down that path, where does it end? Coaches like Saban, Meyer and Fisher , in my opinion are way overpaid. It may not seem like it anymore but it's still considered an amature sport. Also, ND likes to put the emphasis on "student" in student/athlete. I know i'm probably in the minority in saying this. That's how I feel. Coaches can still be paid a handsome salary. I just can't see paying them a kings ransom just to win football games.

ND is not struggling for money .. they are easily in and or around the top 5 in terms of revenue generated from the football program.

If you don't pay top dollar for talent some other program will ..

It almost seems like ND fans want an 8-4 program instead of competing for playoff spots/national titles.

The idea of this being a student mission is long over/for the birds. Major FBS football is an NFL minor league with NFL like profits. It doesn't matter what kind of language you want to use to disguise it. The day of college football being some extra curricular activity at this level is long gone. ND needs to stop pussy footing around it with its half-measure and get on board 100% or stop being a fence-sitting-hypocrite and just go join the ivy league.

 

[FriedmanIP]

This is 100% WRONG.
Just factually incorrect.

ND is doing just fine in this area now.
And the highly sought after coaches they've kept would be?

Sure they offered Elko the kitchen sink but fact remains they didn't in the end keep him.

When we get an assistant who has everyone throwing bread at him and we do wind up keeping him in the end that's when I'll say ND is doing fine opening the vault.

They now know the money that's at play for a good coach.

If you want to win...you've got to go all in.

Wrong.
Actually incorrect, as you almost always are.

Alabama, that little program down south, came calling after chip Long (who is an alum), and tried to pry him away from us before this season. Where is he coaching right now?

Like I’ve said… We’re doing just fine in this area now.

 

[FriedmanIP]

ND is not struggling for money .. they are easily in and or around the top 5 in terms of revenue generated from the football program.

If you don't pay top dollar for talent some other program will ..

It almost seems like ND fans want an 8-4 program instead of competing for playoff spots/national titles.

The idea of this being a student mission is long over/for the birds. Major FBS football is an NFL minor league with NFL like profits. It doesn't matter what kind of language you want to use to disguise it. The day of college football being some extra curricular activity at this level is long gone. ND needs to stop pussy footing around it with its half-measure and get on board 100% or stop being a fence-sitting-hypocrite and just go join the ivy league.

Not shockingly, this is once again… Completely wrong.

Notre Dame can be very competitive in today’s landscape while also refusing to treat it’s program as an NFL farm system. Heck, they’ve shown that in three of the four recent years, despite major missed steps.

Notre Dame does need to pay competitive rates for his coaches, which it already does.

This is a complete non-issue, only being discussed here by a few no nothing clowns like @chaseball and @88ND

 

[NotreDomer1]

It almost seems like ND fans want an 8-4 program instead of competing for playoff spots/national titles.

Not at all. I’m for paying top price for the absolute best of the best. I want Great position coaches who knock it out of the park on the recruiting trail. Six games just isn’t a big enough sample size to demand that price tag.

 

[chaseball]

Not at all. I’m for paying top price for the absolute best of the best. I want Great position coaches who knock it out of the park on the recruiting trail. Six games just isn’t a big enough sample size to demand that price tag.

Agreed 100%. Lea still has a lot to prove. But if he finishes this season with a bang, and other programs come calling with a blank check, ND needs to be ready to pay top dollar.

 

[Bumpdaddy]

I disagree. Clark Lea's stock is rising as fast as anyone's right now... ND can't afford to hem and haw like they have in the past in these situations. They need to be ready to compete in a fast evolving market in regards to assistant coaching salaries.

There would be no Clark Lea to hem and haw over if ND did what you suggest with Elko.

If you don't pay top dollar for talent some other program will ..

It almost seems like ND fans want an 8-4 program instead of competing for playoff spots/national titles.

"Paying top dollar" is an empty term. Many organizations have embraced the empty version of the phrase and have paid dearly for it. The Yankees under George Steinbrenner pre-Joe Torre comes to mind. Steinbrenner was willing to throw money around without putting much thought into how that would help successfully build a team and year after year the highest paid team kept falling on their faces.

The true phrase should be:

"Paying top dollar within reason."

At some point, you have to know when the price is unreasonable and let someone else pay the stupid money. With Elko, ND was willing to pay him top money. Elko agreed and accepted the offer... until he didn't. I hope ND never gets so stupid as to think they have to hold on to some assistant coach no matter the circumstances.

All of this seems to be predicated on a myth. Yes, every team wants great assistant coaches, and if they have the resources and the coach is indeed proven, they should be willing to pay top dollar... within reason of course. But, if an assistant truly is great, he likely won't be around long anyway. He's likely going to get an HC job somewhere.

Ask yourself this, how many high-profile assistant coaches has Alabama gone through over the last several years? I'm not going to do the math, but I know it's a lot. And sure, Alabama pays top dollar, but they don't try to hold onto their assistant coaches at all costs and they haven't suffered imaginary consequences because they let the likes of Kiffen, McElwain, Smart, and Pruitt move on. They just keep on plugging in the next guy and keep rolling along.

The actual key to success is to build a program and be smart along the way. That starts with hiring the right head coach. If he is the right guy then his assistants will have success. At some point, those assistants will move on. And people won't panic because they know the next new hire is likely going to be a success too.

That's what the model for success is. It's doing things the smart way. And yes, sometimes the smart way is to open up your wallet, but you don't do that if you aren't planning to be smart about it. ND hasn't been very smart in the past and they paid dearly for it. Let's hope they've learned their lesson moving forward.

 

[stu4don]

Always felt that it wasn't about money with Elko. Just didn't think ND/Kelly was a good fit for him... Personalities play into these decisions. I imagine a guy like Long is learning a lot from Kelly who has become a top notch program builder (he really seemed to figure it out post-2016) -- he might want to stay around. Diaco is a case where a guy either didn't have head coaching chops or left to early?

 

[tbonesays]

As much as I want ND to win, I don't want to see coaches make ridiculous amounts of money. Like anything else, once you go down that path, where does it end? Coaches like Saban, Meyer and Fisher , in my opinion are way overpaid. It may not seem like it anymore but it's still considered an amature sport. Also, ND likes to put the emphasis on "student" in student/athlete. I know i'm probably in the minority in saying this. That's how I feel. Coaches can still be paid a handsome salary. I just can't see paying them a kings ransom just to win football games.

I tend to think the Big Money Donors are paying and the money only passes through ND briefly.

 

[chaseball]

There would be no Clark Lea to hem and haw over if ND did what you suggest with Elko.


"Paying top dollar" is an empty term. Many organizations have embraced the empty version of the phrase and have paid dearly for it. The Yankees under George Steinbrenner pre-Joe Torre comes to mind. Steinbrenner was willing to throw money around without putting much thought into how that would help successfully build a team and year after year the highest paid team kept falling on their faces.

The true phrase should be:

"Paying top dollar within reason."

At some point, you have to know when the price is unreasonable and let someone else pay the stupid money. With Elko, ND was willing to pay him top money. Elko agreed and accepted the offer... until he didn't. I hope ND never gets so stupid as to think they have to hold on to some assistant coach no matter the circumstances.

All of this seems to be predicated on a myth. Yes, every team wants great assistant coaches, and if they have the resources and the coach is indeed proven, they should be willing to pay top dollar... within reason of course. But, if an assistant truly is great, he likely won't be around long anyway. He's likely going to get an HC job somewhere.

Ask yourself this, how many high-profile assistant coaches has Alabama gone through over the last several years? I'm not going to do the math, but I know it's a lot. And sure, Alabama pays top dollar, but they don't try to hold onto their assistant coaches at all costs and they haven't suffered imaginary consequences because they let the likes of Kiffen, McElwain, Smart, and Pruitt move on. They just keep on plugging in the next guy and keep rolling along.

The actual key to success is to build a program and be smart along the way. That starts with hiring the right head coach. If he is the right guy then his assistants will have success. At some point, those assistants will move on. And people won't panic because they know the next new hire is likely going to be a success too.

That's what the model for success is. It's doing things the smart way. And yes, sometimes the smart way is to open up your wallet, but you don't do that if you aren't planning to be smart about it. ND hasn't been very smart in the past and they paid dearly for it. Let's hope they've learned their lesson moving forward.

All reasonable points.

I wasn't insinuating that ND should just write blank checks carelessly but I think ND has been spoiled in recent years Elko and now Lea. There isn't always another guy in waiting ready to take where the last one left off. If ND doesn't have a really good plan B, and some other program comes trying to hire away their plan A, then they need to be able to open up the purse strings and pay.

The Alabama model isn't really a fair comparison / sustainable model at ND. Alabama/Saban/and his monopoly of the talent pool in college football play a big part in their continued/seamless success. They don't need world beating coordinators.

ND on the other hand doesn't have such luxury. Also ND demands a lot out out of its coordinators with their coast to coast recruiting and travel.

If you aren't going to compete for top 100 recruits because of admissions or what have you -- then you need to make damn sure your staff is A1/top notch. And ND can certainly afford to do so. The football program generates over $100M/year in revenue.

ND can't afford to lose proven coordinators to other programs and stay competitive for playoff spots at the highest level.

 

[DillonDomer]

I would not be surprised if Kelly brings in Stoops as an analyst or some other non coaching role as a contingency.

 

[tbonesays]

I would not be surprised if Kelly brings in Stoops as an analyst or some other non coaching role as a contingency.

Which?

 

[echowaker]

This is 100% WRONG.
Just factually incorrect.

ND is doing just fine in this area now.
And the highly sought after coaches they've kept would be?

Sure they offered Elko the kitchen sink but fact remains they didn't in the end keep him.

When we get an assistant who has everyone throwing bread at him and we do wind up keeping him in the end that's when I'll say ND is doing fine opening the vault.

They now know the money that's at play for a good coach.

If you want to win...you've got to go all in.

Hogwash as usual.

 

[echowaker]

I would not be surprised if Kelly brings in Stoops as an analyst or some other non coaching role as a contingency.

No

 

[echowaker]

Which?

Not mike,no,no,no.

 

[echowaker]

All reasonable points.

I wasn't insinuating that ND should just write blank checks carelessly but I think ND has been spoiled in recent years Elko and now Lea. There isn't always another guy in waiting ready to take where the last one left off. If ND doesn't have a really good plan B, and some other program comes trying to hire away their plan A, then they need to be able to open up the purse strings and pay.

The Alabama model isn't really a fair comparison / sustainable model at ND. Alabama/Saban/and his monopoly of the talent pool in college football play a big part in their continued/seamless success. They don't need world beating coordinators.

ND on the other hand doesn't have such luxury. Also ND demands a lot out out of its coordinators with their coast to coast recruiting and travel.

If you aren't going to compete for top 100 recruits because of admissions or what have you -- then you need to make damn sure your staff is A1/top notch. And ND can certainly afford to do so. The football program generates over $100M/year in revenue.

ND can't afford to lose proven coordinators to other programs and stay competitive for playoff spots at the highest level.

Every team loses assistants. It's the nature of the beast. Venebales left stoops at Oklahoma to get out from under his shadow. Money is not always the reason guys leave or stay. Fit is huge.