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Another sign of the Apocalypse......

348, if Trump is so good why is he thumbing his nose at ethical standards for himself, his family and his administration to enrich himself and his family? How many billions will he make as President? This should concern you, regardless of your politics.
Non of that will be due to his salary since he declined to take one so I doubt he's going to plunder
 
Take off your blinders. The plunder opportunity has nothing to do with his salary.
I'm not blind from what President Trump could do, but he has already demonstrated the seriousness and his every step will be watch as compared to the alternative where the Clintons were completely unchecked and has seriously damaged this nation with the missile technology Bill sold to the Chinese, and Hillary with the uranium 1 deal.to Russi
And plunder look at he Clinton foundation
Talk about blinders geeze!i
 
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I'm not blind from what President Trump could do, but he has already demonstrated the seriousness and his every step will be watch as compared to the alternative where the Clintons were completely unchecked and has seriously damaged this nation with the missile technology Bill sold to the Chinese, and Hillary with the uranium 1 deal.to Russi
And plunder look at he Clinton foundation
Talk about blinders geeze!i
Come one! Enough of the right wing conspiracy BS, that's been proven false by any reputable fact checking organization.:rolleyes:
Just take the political BS elsewhere in fact!
 
Trump will make the Clintons look like poor cousins. Trump's take will far surpass anything you've ever seen, or imagined.
 
Curious what was the good?

Here are a couple: (1) saving the auto industry in '09; (2) ending the war in Iraq; (3) passing Wall St. reform; (4) passing the Stimulus Act to help get us out of the worst recession since the Great Depression; (5) opening up relations with Cuba; (6) repealing "Don't Ask; Don't Tell"; (7) the Iran deal; (8) expanded national service through AmeriCorps; (9) gave the FDA power to regulate tobacco; and (10) implemented the Fair Sentencing Act. I realize that many of these were done with Congress but he was instrumental with many of them. I didn't mention Obamacare because it is incomplete but it did get insurance to an additional 10M people who didn't previously have it.
 
Here are a couple: (1) saving the auto industry in '09; (2) ending the war in Iraq; (3) passing Wall St. reform; (4) passing the Stimulus Act to help get us out of the worst recession since the Great Depression; (5) opening up relations with Cuba; (6) repealing "Don't Ask; Don't Tell"; (7) the Iran deal; (8) expanded national service through AmeriCorps; (9) gave the FDA power to regulate tobacco; and (10) implemented the Fair Sentencing Act. I realize that many of these were done with Congress but he was instrumental with many of them. I didn't mention Obamacare because it is incomplete but it did get insurance to an additional 10M people who didn't previously have it.
He didn't save the auto industry, he saved the unions by circumventing the US bankruptcy laws. The auto industry would have been in better shape if GM and Chysler would have gone through bankruptcy.
 
He didn't save the auto industry, he saved the unions by circumventing the US bankruptcy laws. The auto industry would have been in better shape if GM and Chysler would have gone through bankruptcy.
Wrong! The downstream loss of jobs would have been horiffic
 
Wrong! The downstream loss of jobs would have been horiffic
The US consumes a certain number of automobiles and trucks each year, which takes a certain amount of manufacturing capacity, which equates to an appropriate labor force for that capacity. For every job that GM or Chrysler would have lost, or their suppliers, a job would have been created at Nissan, Honda, Toyota et al, all companies who produce the majority of their cars sold in America, here in America. Is it better for the US to have an American working at GM instead of Toyota? Or is it better for the UAW? If Chrysler or GM would have gone through bankruptcy, like our laws were intended, they could have right sized, cleaned up long running labor issues, and emerged better more modern more competitive companies.
 
Don't worry. Trump will rewrite the book to save/create US auto jobs without regard to economics. I can't wait to see how the border tax screws everything.
 
Come one! Enough of the right wing conspiracy BS, that's been proven false by any reputable fact checking organization.:rolleyes:
Just take the political BS elsewhere in fact!
So Bill Clinton didn't sale missile technology too the Chinese, and Hillary did approve the Uranium 1 deal to Russia?
Librel organization fact checks are not reputable. That has been proven which is why Trump is the President of the United States
Like it or not Libreals got this man elected not conservatives.
Maybe boys dressed like girls wanting to use the girls room wasn't such a good idea for starters
 
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Here are a couple: (1) saving the auto industry in '09; (2) ending the war in Iraq; (3) passing Wall St. reform; (4) passing the Stimulus Act to help get us out of the worst recession since the Great Depression; (5) opening up relations with Cuba; (6) repealing "Don't Ask; Don't Tell"; (7) the Iran deal; (8) expanded national service through AmeriCorps; (9) gave the FDA power to regulate tobacco; and (10) implemented the Fair Sentencing Act. I realize that many of these were done with Congress but he was instrumental with many of them. I didn't mention Obamacare because it is incomplete but it did get insurance to an additional 10M people who didn't previously have it.
1 Bailing out corporate hacks was good ?Giving golden parachutesto those that created the mess. All he did was payback the union's then slapped them in the face
2 The war in Iraq is still going on clueless, and infact President Obama action created Isis
3What Wall St reform? Lobbyist, Special interest, Speculators, are still running amuck.
4 Putting the country in greater debit and nothing was accomplished unless you were the Solyndra types.
5 Bowing down to a communist dictator (Obama's Specialty) has done nothing to help free Cuba or free political prisoners, or free press
6 I have no problem with
7 The Iran Deal????? What deal?????? Iran now has a pathway to a Nucular weapon, and Billions of more $ to arm Mr I Hate America which they are doing as we are seeing right now
8 I will have to look into
9 the FDA is doing no more now than the law suits that happen decades ago have strated
10 Don't do the crime if you don't want to do the time
Obummer care?
Millions are getting more free stuff on my dime while my premiums went from $350 to $4000.
If that piece of shit legislation was so great why conservatives president Obama, or the Democratic Congress that rammed it through have it?

President Obama has done less with more than any president in my life time. I thought Bush was bad this cat is even worse.

I see you also didn't bring up the influx at the borders and hand cuffing border enforcment

Drugs flow across. Heroin is killing more than ever. Drug cartels are setting up shop in America. Our enemies are more aggressive, race relations are abysmal the middle class is carting this country and it's shrinking, while the rich are getting richer, and there are twice as many rich liberals than conservatives.All his liberal buddies are keeping heir money offshore. Taking their business offshore.
I know you want to talk about Trumps taxes and that's fair, but what about GE not paying any while being in bed with the Obama administration?
 
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Here are a couple: (1) saving the auto industry in '09; (2) ending the war in Iraq; (3) passing Wall St. reform; (4) passing the Stimulus Act to help get us out of the worst recession since the Great Depression; (5) opening up relations with Cuba; (6) repealing "Don't Ask; Don't Tell"; (7) the Iran deal; (8) expanded national service through AmeriCorps; (9) gave the FDA power to regulate tobacco; and (10) implemented the Fair Sentencing Act. I realize that many of these were done with Congress but he was instrumental with many of them. I didn't mention Obamacare because it is incomplete but it did get insurance to an additional 10M people who didn't previously have it.
I thought you wanted to "get back to football"?
 
Why are you stating that's a lie, or unusual?
If your premiums did go up drastically than you're either a politician, or a freeloader which aren't that different.
If it's true, you shouldn't hesitate to prove it. It will give you credibility and show you aren't lying.
 
You made the point not me. If you can't back up a stated fact, it is called lying. Deflecting won't get you off the hook.
 
If it's true, you shouldn't hesitate to prove it. It will give you credibility and show you aren't lying.
he owes you proof of nothing. If you want to post personal information about yourself....go ahead. Asking someone else to is equally foolish.
 
he owes you proof of nothing. If you want to post personal information about yourself....go ahead. Asking someone else to is equally foolish.
I didn't ask him to post personal info. He could have redacted any identifying info. Fortunately our conversation led to a clarification that settled the matter.
 
I stand corrected.
I meant my deductible went from $350, to $4,000. Sorry about that.You can't tell me this is ok,
having been in the insurance business for twenty eight years, I should add a thought or two....a high deductible is tantamount to higher premiums...both represent out of pocket costs. Some seem to believe that it matters which pocket the dollars come out of from the same pair of pants.

Unfortunately for us....the principle of higher deductibles in exchange for lower premiums is lost on Obamacare....both went up. Anyone whose premium did otherwise is subsidized by the taxpayers. Hiding the cost does not make it go away. Obama knows that ACA will blow up...He will be very thankful that he's outta Dodge when that happens and can blame those holding the bag. When no incentives exist to lower costs...they don't get lowered.

Did problems exist in health insurance prior to Obamacare? Yes. Preexisting conditions and obscene disparities between group health insurance and the individual markets was both abusive and discriminatory. But at no time in history was an entire industry expunged in order to deal with clearly identifiable problems. Government was and is as guilty as anyone in the health insurance problems. Governments protected unions when they shook down industry with cadillac group insurance policies....great until the layoffs happened. Moreso when Obamacare created universal part time employment, creating yet more uninsureds...who will pay a penalty tax for being so.

Real reform begins with fundamental facts...when choice is absent, the abuses are greater, not smaller. When folks in West Virginia do not have the same choices in both plan and cost as people in Nevada, it shows up in both cost and coverage. Would you complain if you travelled through Ohio and a gallon of gas was $4.40...but dropped to $3.00 when you got to Colorado? Wouldn't you ask why? There are people in Alabama who have one health plan available, regardles of age, health or economic circumstances. You think there is any incentive to keep those out of pocket costs down? Hardly.

Obamacare did not lower costs for consumers, unless you were federally subsidized, period. And that was temporary at best. Insurance companies are making greater profits under Obamacare now...because government dollars are flowing through their plans into their coffers. That was the deal to get them onboard and in line. Its hush money. Ask yourself why hundreds of national unions lobbied for and received regulatory waivers from Obamacare as soon as it was enacted. The vast majority backed Obama and democrats..yet supported Obamacare for everyone else. Why?
 
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Love the "metric" comments. Give me a freaking break. By no metric was Obama a bad president? Delusional. His lousiness didn't have anything to do w/ his race and everything to do w/ his policies, so jam the "you're a racist if u don't like Obama" drivel.
 
Marxist, your argument about inequitable differences between states seems to support a federal solution, not a market solution. Sounds like ACA to me.
 
having been in the insurance business for twenty eight years, I should add a thought or two....a high deductible is tantamount to higher premiums...both represent out of pocket costs. Some seem to believe that it matters which pocket the dollars come out of from the same pair of pants.

Unfortunately for us....the principle of higher deductibles in exchange for lower premiums is lost on Obamacare....both went up. Anyone whose premium did otherwise is subsidized by the taxpayers. Hiding the cost does not make it go away. Obama knows that ACA will blow up...He will be very thankful that he's outta Dodge when that happens and can blame those holding the bag. When no incentives exist to lower costs...they don't get lowered.

Did problems exist in health insurance prior to Obamacare? Yes. Preexisting conditions and obscene disparities between group health insurance and the individual markets was both abusive and discriminatory. But at no time in history was an entire industry expunged in order to deal with clearly identifiable problems. Government was and is as guilty as anyone in the health insurance problems. Governments protected unions when they shook down industry with cadillac group insurance policies....great until the layoffs happened. Moreso when Obamacare created universal part time employment, creating yet more uninsureds...who will pay a penalty tax for being so.

Real reform begins with fundamental facts...when choice is absent, the abuses are greater, not smaller. When folks in West Virginia do not have the same choices in both plan and cost as people in Nevada, it shows up in both cost and coverage. Would you complain if you travelled through Ohio and a gallon of gas was $4.40...but dropped to $3.00 when you got to Colorado? Wouldn't you ask why? There are people in Alabama who have one health plan available, regardles of age, health or economic circumstances. You think there is any incentive to keep those out of pocket costs down? Hardly.

Obamacare did not lower costs for consumers, unless you were federally subsidized, period. And that was temporary at best. Insurance companies are making greater profits under Obamacare now...because government dollars are flowing through their plans into their coffers. That was the deal to get them onboard and in line. Its hush money. Ask yourself why hundreds of national unions lobbied for and received regulatory waivers from Obamacare as soon as it was enacted. The vast majority backed Obama and democrats..yet supported Obamacare for everyone else. Why?

NICE!!!!!!! I am on a grandfathered personal plan that I bought ON MY OWN years ago with coverage that works. If I switched to Obama's crazy plans my premium would DOUBLE!!!!! No thanks. IMO the only thing the govt should do is insure the high risks. Leave the rest of us alone!!!
 
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Marxist, your argument about inequitable differences between states seems to support a federal solution, not a market solution. Sounds like ACA to me.
not correct. The problem lies first and foremost in state regulatory disparties. New York State is the most restrictive and regulatory state insurance commision in the the country. They require out of state companies which do business within the state of New York to conform to the same regulatory constraints as those based in New York...You will find that restriction lacking in other states which allow New York companies to do business in their state. Big difference. Interstate competition is a much bigger deterrant to abuse and cost than people care to admit to. Insurance companies do a business form of "gerrymandering" state to state to work around these state barriers....which hurts their own populations first and foremost. Competitive pricing and product brings costs down. What we have now is a cartel, created by the federal government. I remember when AIDS was at its highest level. A couple of states came out with mandated guaranteed health products for companies in their states... Those states became magnets for the unfortunates with HIV, moving in by the droves. Guess what happened? They blew up the program and it was discontinued by those companies. Had that risk been spread out nationwide, amongst multiple companies...it would have survived. How about disability insurance? What incentive did insurers have for AIDS patients to "live longer" with HIV so as to pay those monthly benefits for more years rather than less? And that is one disease.

Preexisting conditions is probably the biggest single hole in the individual marketplace. If a person has diagnosed hypertension....any cardiovascular disorder or attack could be denied coverage, if it can be tied to hypertension. That covers a wide array of medical problems, not covered. But insurers could not widen the risk pool by selling across state lines...so the products stunk.

Why does a gallon of milk at 7-11 cost $3.95 a gallon...and its $1.65 at Kroger? Volume and the "value of convenience". When the product is the only game in town...the "value of convenience" enters into the equation. Supply and demand.
We could talk about maternity...where an individual policy costs an additional $100 per month to add maternity...What happened? People paid the extra premium, got pregnant, had the kid, then dropped the optional maternity to lower the premium. The insurance company got screwed..so they restricted the coverage to a fixed dollar amount unless its treated as illness due to complications of birth. Don't have that on group plans because the maternity isn't optional. If you were female, and 60 years old, maternity costs were built into your premium just the same as if you are 20 and child bearing years apply. Apples and oranges.

Yes, government plays a role in health insurance. But markets are the only path to cost containment. Why do hospitals charge customers different rates for the same procedure? Ever wondered why that is? Auto mechanics don't do that...contractors don't do that....why do hospitals? Because insurance companies pay for procedures at a different rate APPROVED BY STATE COMMISSIONERS. That happens because interstate insurance purchasing is so very limited. If I as a consumer had the freedom to say I like the regulatory environment in Minnesota better than my home state of Ohio..so I will buy from Minnesota. Can't do that...I have to pass through the Ohio insurance commission's toll booth and buy in the individual marketplace. Obamacare was supposed to fix all of that....So what happened? State exchanges were set up via federal mandates. How many exchanges have folded their tents already? Most of them. Which is why choice is disappearing and cost is going up. They were propped up by subsidies, pure and simple. We cannot fix health insurance without a competitive environment complete with guarantees and safeguards for the sick, the terminal and aged. We will always have them....and they must be taken care of. We need to widen the tent, more options for companies and individuals, not less.
 
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not correct. The problem lies first and foremost in state regulatory disparties. New York State is the most restrictive and regulatory state insurance commision in the the country. They require out of state companies which do business within the state of New York to conform to the same regulatory constraints as those based in New York...You will find that restriction lacking in other states which allow New York companies to do business in their state. Big difference. Interstate competition is a much bigger deterrant to abuse and cost than people care to admit to. Insurance companies do a business form of "gerrymandering" state to state to work around these state barriers....which hurts their own populations first and foremost. Competitive pricing and product brings costs down. What we have now is a cartel, created by the federal government. I remember when AIDS was at its highest level. A couple of states came out with mandated guaranteed health products for companies in their states... Those states became magnets for the unfortunates with HIV, moving in by the droves. Guess what happened? They blew up the program and it was discontinued by those companies. Had that risk been spread out nationwide, amongst multiple companies...it would have survived. How about disability insurance? What incentive did insurers have for AIDS patients to "live longer" with HIV so as to pay those monthly benefits for more years rather than less? And that is one disease.

Preexisting conditions is probably the biggest single hole in the individual marketplace. If a person has diagnosed hypertension....any cardiovascular disorder or attack could be denied coverage, if it can be tied to hypertension. That covers a wide array of medical problems, not covered. But insurers could not widen the risk pool by selling across state lines...so the products stunk.

Why does a gallon of milk at 7-11 cost $3.95 a gallon...and its $1.65 at Kroger? Volume and the "value of convenience". When the product is the only game in town...the "value of convenience" enters into the equation. Supply and demand.
We could talk about maternity...where an individual policy costs an additional $100 per month to add maternity...What happened? People paid the extra premium, got pregnant, had the kid, then dropped the optional maternity to lower the premium. The insurance company got screwed..so they restricted the coverage to a fixed dollar amount unless its treated as illness due to complications of birth. Don't have that on group plans because the maternity isn't optional. If you were female, and 60 years old, maternity costs were built into your premium just the same as if you are 20 and child bearing years apply. Apples and oranges.

Yes, government plays a role in health insurance. But markets are the only path to cost containment. Why do hospitals charge customers different rates for the same procedure? Ever wondered why that is? Auto mechanics don't do that...contractors don't do that....why do hospitals? Because insurance companies pay for procedures at a different rate APPROVED BY STATE COMMISSIONERS. That happens because interstate insurance purchasing is so very limited. If I as a consumer had the freedom to say I like the regulatory environment in Minnesota better than my home state of Ohio..so I will buy from Minnesota. Can't do that...I have to pass through the Ohio insurance commission's toll booth and buy in the individual marketplace. Obamacare was supposed to fix all of that....So what happened? State exchanges set up. How many exchanges have folded their tents already? Most of them. Which is why choice is disappearing and cost is going up. They were propped up by subsidies, pure and simple. We cannot fix health insurance without a competitive environment complete with guarantees and safeguards for the sick, the terminal and aged. We will always have them....and they must be taken care of. We need to widen the tent, more options for companies and individuals, not less.
This is truly a complex issue. Maybe the Dems should of thought it through before jamming in down the country's throat.
 
This is truly a complex issue. Maybe the Dems should of thought it through before jamming in down the country's throat.
Obamacare was not enacted to fix healthcare. If it were, what we have would not exist. It was designed to annex healthcare, not fix it. Obama recently annexed over 1.5 million acres of land in Nevada and Utah under the guise of "wildlife refuge". What really happened was the shutdown of energy exploration, using wildlife conservation as a cover and a means to the end. Obamacare did the same thing.

Remember, Obamacare was sold as a solution to address 10 million uninsureds in America. So 300 million Americans had their health insurance revised, changed or replaced to address
a problem applicable to a small fraction of that number. Sound right to you?
 
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I will add another partisan fact to this issue. State insurance commissions are governed by state legislatures with laws passed in those states. New York is the most heavily regulated and restrictive against outside companies. Guess which political party passed those laws in New York? Same with Illinois and California. The democrats have made their insurance commissions tyrannical and have made it impossible for many companies to do business in their states. That is a fact. When an insurance company pulls of of a state and "cancels everybody's insurance"...it is always a function of legislative restrictions. Obama could have easily filed suit against New York for example...and gotten a ton of concessions to free up the marketplace in New York...But that would not help his political party, would it? Believe it or not, there are insurance companies which do business in 49 states...guess which one they do not operate in? New York. If you think the insurance companies are a racket....take a look at their regulators....

Obama could have and should have addressed problems in the health insurance marketplace. It was and is needed. He failed. Now its up to Trump. He will get his chance.
 
when did the working class make the moral admission that they had to provide 'free' health care to those who are 'healthy' and do not motivate or make the sacrifices necessary to obtain it?

And what are the stats of medical payouts for these individuals vs the premiums they paid out of pocket?
Affordable to who? those that can't afford it? Where the hell is the rest of the $ coming from? HELLO!
No, not simple!
 
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