Alejandro Villenueva

[Pennick44]

I am speculating. You chose to use one example to support your argument. I will counter. Matt Lyght was at the Pats game Sunday with a Navy Seal and the widow of a Navy Seal killed in action. The widow was brought to tears when she saw the kneeling Patriots. He was on local radio Monday morning.
Ratings of the NFL are down and not a little bit. This is a losing proposition for the players and the league.

 

[IrishInOntario]

I am speculating. You chose to use one example to support your argument. I will counter. Matt Lyght was at the Pats game Sunday with a Navy Seal and the widow of a Navy Seal killed in action. The widow was brought to tears when she saw the kneeling Patriots. He was on local radio Monday morning.
Ratings of the NFL are down and not a little bit. This is a losing proposition for the players and the league.

Of course my anecdotal example supports the side of the argument that I generally agree with (there is a lot of grey area here). Of course yours does as well. As I stated in my post in another thread, my example was used to shed light on the grey area in this debate, which in this instance (as a proud right leaning conservative) I feel like the right, led by President Trump, is having a hard time acknowledging exists... I'm not asking you to change your opinion, I simply don't like when people talk concretely like they are representative of "all" or "most" people in a group (in this case, Americans) when evidence doesn't support that at all.

This is like when Trump spent a week in a social media tirade trying to convince everyone that he had more people at his inauguration than Obama. He just didn't... It doesn't matter, but his argument was just completely incorrect.

If, or when the stadiums start emptying out and the NFL ratings start truly plummeting, we will get a better idea of how the majority of Americans truly feel. Having the ratings drop by 10% (or whatver the actual number was this week) and the stadiums still packed, doesn't lend creedance to the theory that America is outraged over this.

 

[Pennick44]

Of course my anecdotal example supports the side of the argument that I generally agree with (there is a lot of grey area here). Of course yours does as well. As I stated in my post in another thread, my example was used to shed light on the grey area in this debate, which in this instance (as a proud right leaning conservative) I feel like the right, led by President Trump, is having a hard time acknowledging exists... I'm not asking you to change your opinion, I simply don't like when people talk concretely like they are representative of "all or "most people in a group (in this case, Americans) when evidence doesn't support that at all.

This is like when Trump spent a week in a social media tirade trying to convince everyone that he had more people at his inauguration than Obama. He just didn't... It doesn't matter, but his argument was just completely incorrect.

If, or when the stadiums start emptying out and the NFL ratings start truly plummeting, we will get a betrer idea of how the majority of Americans truly feel. Having the ratings drop by 10% (or whatver the actual number was) and the stadiums still packed, doesn't lend creedance to the theory that America is outraged over this.

A Remington poll says 64 percent don't support the kneeling players. You aren't going to get half empty stadiums immediately after the protests you know that. Advertisers are extremely concerned with dropping TV ratings when they are spending billions of dollars on the NFL.

 

[IrishInOntario]

A Remington poll says 64 percent don't support the kneeling players. You aren't going to get half empty stadiums immediately after the protests you know that. Advertisers are extremely concerned with dropping TV ratings when they are spending billions of dollars on the NFL.

Thanks for citing the poll. That's interesting. It certainly reflects the majority (although not overwhelmingly) that you are claiming. I'd be curious to see if the protests are having any negative effect on the growing tv markets outside of the USA.

 

[IrishInOntario]

A Remington poll says 64 percent don't support the kneeling players. You aren't going to get half empty stadiums immediately after the protests you know that. Advertisers are extremely concerned with dropping TV ratings when they are spending billions of dollars on the NFL.

Also, I certainly don't expect people to not use tickets they paid for, likely well in advance. The average citizen doesn't care more about their politics than their money.

That said, while I don't expect half empty stadiums immediately, I'll be interested to see if there are substantial number of empty seats in venues across country... Like 10-15% vacancy at places that usually fill up.

 

[Pennick44]

Thanks for citing the poll. That's interesting. It certainly reflects the majority (although not overwhelmingly) that you are claiming. I'd be curious to see if the protests are having any negative effect on the growing tv markets outside of the USA.

I wonder if Kapaernick hadn't worn the piggy cop socks or the Castro shirt if this whole issue might have actually done some good. He wasn't the right "spokesman". I bet he would have a job in the NFL if he hadn't taken such actions.

 

[deadirishpoet]

Also, I certainly don't expect people to not use tickets they paid for, likely well in advance. The average citizen doesn't care more about their politics than their money.

That said, while I don't expect half empty stadiums immediately, I'll be interested to see if there are substantial number of empty seats in venues across country... Like 10-15% vacancy at places that usually fill up.

The Jacksonville Jaguars we're having a hard time keeps them close to three-quarters full.

 

[IrishInOntario]

The Jacksonville Jaguars we're having a hard time keeps them close to three-quarters full.

They've always struggled to fill the seats though, right? TV blackouts and tarped off sections?... Curious to see if a place like Green Bay, Dallas, Atlanta, or New England, etc, etc, see significant attendance decline this coming week, with so many outraged Americans.

 

[tbonesays]

Thus far most of the protest supporters Ive met do not actually watch the NFL, by most I mean "none." Id guess the NFL ticket buying crowd tilts toward blue collar Trump voters.

 

[deadirishpoet]

They've always struggled to fill the seats though, right? TV blackouts and tarped off sections?... Curious to see if a place like Green Bay, Dallas, Atlanta, or New England, etc, etc, see significant attendance decline this coming week, with so many outraged Americans.

This is true IIO the Jaguars have always had a hard time building up after Tom Coughlin left and with Jacksonville being a military town you figure they would not want to not upset the apple cart anymore there.
Like I stated I've been with the Jaguars since their conception. Even through the lean years I was still purchasing my tickets well before they were due.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Thus far most of the protest supporters Ive met do not actually watch the NFL, by most I mean "none." Id guess the NFL ticket buying crowd tilts toward blue collar Trump voters.

I would say this is probably fairly accurate. I'm curious to see if people who don't usually buy tickets or tune in start doing
so in support of the players and at the same time, I'm interested to see in season ticket holders and those who have purchased tickets in advance, stop showing up in support of their President's position?

My hunch is that more than like brother is the case and a few weeks from now now things will go back to relative normality and those people who love the game of football will go back to watching it, politics aside.

 

[twalsh]

Of course my anecdotal example supports the side of the argument that I generally agree with (there is a lot of grey area here). Of course yours does as well. As I stated in my post in another thread, my example was used to shed light on the grey area in this debate, which in this instance (as a proud right leaning conservative) I feel like the right, led by President Trump, is having a hard time acknowledging exists... I'm not asking you to change your opinion, I simply don't like when people talk concretely like they are representative of "all" or "most" people in a group (in this case, Americans) when evidence doesn't support that at all.

This is like when Trump spent a week in a social media tirade trying to convince everyone that he had more people at his inauguration than Obama. He just didn't... It doesn't matter, but his argument was just completely incorrect.

If, or when the stadiums start emptying out and the NFL ratings start truly plummeting, we will get a better idea of how the majority of Americans truly feel. Having the ratings drop by 10% (or whatver the actual number was this week) and the stadiums still packed, doesn't lend creedance to the theory that America is outraged over this.

The NFL is mostly season tix, many with expensive PSLs attached. It will take quite a while for any meaningful attendance change. TV could be different.

 

[IrishInOntario]

The NFL is mostly season tix, many with expensive PSLs attached. It will take quite a while for any meaningful attendance change. TV could be different.

Agreed. And as I said above... People are incredibly attached to their cause. As long as their finances aren't involved. It's crazy how important money is in our lives, isn't it?

 

[twalsh]

Agreed. And as I said above... People are incredibly attached to their cause. As long as their finances aren't involved. It's crazy how important money is in our lives, isn't it?

In a seemingly perverted way, it gives you an appreciation for the scum bags in Antifa and the KKK who actually do spend their money and time to support their cause.

 

[IrishInOntario]

In a seemingly perverted way, it gives you an appreciation for the scum bags in Antifa and the KKK who actually do spend their money and time to support their cause.

They certainly are invested! Can you imagine if they used that time, money and energy towards causes that don't start by pointing the finger at somebody else? We'd have some incredible philanthropists.

 

[twalsh]

They certainly are invested! Can you imagine if they used that time, money and energy towards causes that don't start by pointing the finger at somebody else? We'd have some incredible philanthropists.

My personal theory is that there are many people in groups like that who are simply disappointed in their own lives, but are not willing to bear the responsibility for that themselves. So they look for someone else to blame, and covertly that becomes their real cause. Just my long held opinion.

 

[IrishInOntario]

My personal theory is that there are many people in groups like that who are simply disappointed in their own lives, but are not willing to bear the responsibility for that themselves. So they look for someone else to blame, and covertly that becomes their real cause. Just my long held opinion.

I think there is more wisdom in that opinion than you may take credit for. Well said.

 

[tbonesays]

In a seemingly perverted way, it gives you an appreciation for the scum bags in Antifa and the KKK who actually do spend their money and time to support their cause.

Yeah how do they find the spare time away from their jobs and families?

 

[South Bender]

Of course my anecdotal example supports the side of the argument that I generally agree with (there is a lot of grey area here). Of course yours does as well. As I stated in my post in another thread, my example was used to shed light on the grey area in this debate, which in this instance (as a proud right leaning conservative) I feel like the right, led by President Trump, is having a hard time acknowledging exists... I'm not asking you to change your opinion, I simply don't like when people talk concretely like they are representative of "all" or "most" people in a group (in this case, Americans) when evidence doesn't support that at all.

This is like when Trump spent a week in a social media tirade trying to convince everyone that he had more people at his inauguration than Obama. He just didn't... It doesn't matter, but his argument was just completely incorrect.

If, or when the stadiums start emptying out and the NFL ratings start truly plummeting, we will get a better idea of how the majority of Americans truly feel. Having the ratings drop by 10% (or whatver the actual number was this week) and the stadiums still packed, doesn't lend creedance to the theory that America is outraged over this.

I will point out that last week was the first week whole teams and coaches got involved in this. It was a scattering of very few players before last week.

I'd expect last weeks actions to carry over to this week, and the week after and so on. I'd also expect attendance at the stadiums to coincide with the ever growing protest movement - except in the opposite direction.