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A different perspective on offensive woes

theskibro

I've posted how many times?
Aug 24, 2003
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I do think Rees is one of the responsible factors for our crap offense. I mean he didn’t call one screen play and not enough pass plays. Also Buchner was neutralized because Rees tried designed runs for him. Buchner is at his best when scrambling and receivers are covered - we saw none of that

but the biggest reason why we had crap offense is the line play. This was supposed to be our strength. They were below average and did not pick up blitzes and did not push the line of scrimmage. Very disappointing. It is because of our poor line play that Buchner was rushed when passing and why we had no run game. 2.5 yards a carry is sad

this is the biggest reason and I have not heard much talk about it
 
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I do think Rees is one of the responsible factors for our crap offense. I mean he didn’t call one screen play and not enough pass plays. Also Buchner was neutralized because Rees tried designed runs for him. Buchner is at his best when scrambling and receivers are covered - we saw none of that

but the biggest reason why we had crap offense is the line play. This was supposed to be our strength. They were below average and did not pick up blitzes and did not push the line of scrimmage. Very disappointing. It is because of our poor line play that Buchner was rushed when passing and why we had no run game. 2.5 yards a carry is sad

this is the biggest reason and I have not heard much talk about it
Huh?

My first post after game was sounding off on how much of a horseshit fraud HH is.

He "might" get a kid drafted in the first round (although I think they'd still be picked in round 1 regardless) but collectively the line is a joke.
We impose absolutely nothing on our top opponents.

It's really a joke TBH. Herbstreit and Fowler raving about HH yet didn't say much about the OSU line coach who made us look pedestrian. Who was the OSU line coach? Nobody knows but his unit played 10x better than ours.

Funny how that media machine just loves their trendy favorite sons, eh?

Here's a post I made of our rushing stats in the biggest games the last ten years...

https://notredame.forums.rivals.com/threads/another-big-game-failure.180695/post-3624678

P.s.
We did call a screen....
But our center and right guard went left and right allowing #51 to come through the gap completely untouched. Like not a finger on him.
The play was dead immediately as he was on Bucnher in three steps.

Again HOW?
Yell to each other I got #51...it's not a secret. He knows someone will block him...
Except....nobody did block him. Not even a half hearted chip.

RIDICULOUS

How much is HH getting paid because he should get 5-10 for that robbery.
 
There would have page upon page of criticism here if Quinn was still the O line coach. I'm not going to overreact after one game. They got beat by a better team in a hard fought game. Running the table won't surprise me one bit.
 
It's really a joke TBH. Herbstreit and Fowler raving about HH yet didn't say much about the OSU line coach who made us look pedestrian. Who was the OSU line coach? Nobody knows but his unit played 10x better than ours.
Seriously? One more time, Seriously? His name is Larry Johnson and anyone that remotely follows CF will concede that he's - by far - the greatest DL coach of the last 10 to 15 years. Just look at his former players that not only shined in CF but are now excelling in the NFL. I won't even bother to list them all as I'd get tired about halfway through it. Johnson was the only OSU defensive coach retained for 2022 - they fired the rest of them and brought in a new staff.

And let this sink in - the talent and depth on that OSU DL is off the charts - probably the deepest in CF. Clemson might - maybe - have the best starting DL but are nowhere as deep as OSU - not even on the same planet. According to the OSU official site, they rotated 10 DL players throughout the game including the number 4, 5, and 53 overall recruits in the 2021 class. They also have future NFL players like Zach Harrison, Taron Vincent, Jeron Cage and possibly Friday and Jean-Baptiste to go with those 3 explosive 2nd year players. You don't think that wears on the other team in the 2nd half? All 3 (Sawyer, Tuimoloau, and Hall) are only true sophomores but obviously ready to make their mark this year. That number # 51 that everyone keeps referring to - is Mike Hall.....the listed #53 overall recruit.


My point: Maybe it wasn't so much what ND failed to do but how good and dominating the other team was. Also - give the ND defensive coaches credit - a lot of credit - for holding that team down for a good part of the game. Their depth - on both sides of the ball - just eventually took over
 
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I do think Rees is one of the responsible factors for our crap offense. I mean he didn’t call one screen play and not enough pass plays. Also Buchner was neutralized because Rees tried designed runs for him. Buchner is at his best when scrambling and receivers are covered - we saw none of that

but the biggest reason why we had crap offense is the line play. This was supposed to be our strength. They were below average and did not pick up blitzes and did not push the line of scrimmage. Very disappointing. It is because of our poor line play that Buchner was rushed when passing and why we had no run game. 2.5 yards a carry is sad

this is the biggest reason and I have not heard much talk about it
I posted my comments about the play of our OL in the game thread, after the game. From my view, Zeke had a terrible game, and Lugg was only slightly better. Kristofic was below average, and Alt and Fisher slightly above average. As a unit, they got their asses kicked, and it wasn’t even close. The poor communication and execution between Zeke and Lugg is inexcusable, especially given these two have the most experience among our starters. I’m not a fan of Zeke and would prefer Patterson back at center. I’ve never believed that Lugg was an interior lineman based on his play there two seasons ago, and Saturday’s game just reinforced this opinion. Harry deserves a lot of criticism for the poor communication and execution across the line, including the poor blocking by our TE’s. Marshal offers a good opportunity to clean this up, but would prefer to see Patterson at center at a minimum. I think it’s really hard to evaluate the play calling and the play of Buchner and the running backs when the OL played so poorly.
 
Huh?

My first post after game was sounding off on how much of a horseshit fraud HH is.

He "might" get a kid drafted in the first round (although I think they'd still be picked in round 1 regardless) but collectively the line is a joke.
We impose absolutely nothing on our top opponents.

It's really a joke TBH. Herbstreit and Fowler raving about HH yet didn't say much about the OSU line coach who made us look pedestrian. Who was the OSU line coach? Nobody knows but his unit played 10x better than ours.

Funny how that media machine just loves their trendy favorite sons, eh?

Here's a post I made of our rushing stats in the biggest games the last ten years...

https://notredame.forums.rivals.com/threads/another-big-game-failure.180695/post-3624678

P.s.
We did call a screen....
But our center and right guard went left and right allowing #51 to come through the gap completely untouched. Like not a finger on him.
The play was dead immediately as he was on Bucnher in three steps.

Again HOW?
Yell to each other I got #51...it's not a secret. He knows someone will block him...
Except....nobody did block him. Not even a half hearted chip.

RIDICULOUS

How much is HH getting paid because he should get 5-10 for that robbery.
Ever hear of one of the best assistants in cfb the last 20 years....Larry Johnson
 
Ever hear of one of the best assistants in cfb the last 20 years....Larry Johnson
You're wasting your time. Some are just going to blame ND instead of giving the other team credit. That is one young, powerful and deep OSU DL
 
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You're wasting your time. Some are just going to blame ND instead of giving the other team credit. That is one young, powerful and deep OSU DL
Dude, don't be like that. tOSU's good, everyone agrees on that. You don't need to insist that we all kiss the ring. The basic cynic's takeaway that most Big Ten teams would put up more than 10 points and 250 yards is a reasonable one. You guys have been largely cool coming over to this ND free board, and now your'e getting kind of weird about it.

We shit the bed, as they say. It wasn't all because of your invincible defense. Come on now.....
 
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Dude, don't be like that. tOSU's good, everyone agrees on that. You don't need to insist that we all kiss the ring. The basic cynic's takeaway that most Big Ten teams would put up more than 10 points and 250 yards is a reasonable one. You guys have been largely cool coming over to this ND free board, and now your'e getting kind of weird about it.

We shit the bed, as they say. It wasn't all because oflyour invincible defense. Come on now.....
Believe it or not, I'm not a diehard OSU fan. I'm actually a Northwestern grad - and Chicago native - that has followed B1G football closely over the last 45 years. The purpose of my most recent posts was directed at the blockheads that were slamming the ND coaching staff. They called a heck of a game to keep it that close. And as many of you know, my Chicago has a huge ND following so I hear a ton of ND stuff around here.

OSU is beatable and I won't be surprised to see them upset this year by a lesser B1G team - although I do think they roll Michigan in Columbus this year. In fact, no college team is unbeatable although this year's Alabama team comes pretty close. Georgia and OSU is definitely a step behind them IMHO
 
Believe it or not, I'm not a diehard OSU fan. I'm actually a Northwestern grad - and Chicago native - that has followed B1G football closely over the last 45 years. The purpose of my most recent posts was directed at the blockheads that were slamming the ND coaching staff. They called a heck of a game to keep it that close. And as many of you know, my Chicago has a huge ND following so I hear a ton of ND stuff around here.

OSU is beatable and I won't be surprised to see them upset this year by a lesser B1G team - although I do think they roll Michigan in Columbus this year. In fact, no college team is unbeatable although this year's Alabama team comes pretty close. Georgia and OSU is definitely a step behind them IMHO
You're still doing it. Your posts are tendentious to the point where you're really just being a nuisance. And quite unjustifiably tendentious as well. Our offense did jack shit all night long and looked like shit. So please stop being such a know-it-all. You are taking a distinctly minority position, to the point where it almost looks like you're trolling, in insisting that what we witnessed some masterclass from Tommy Rees and co., when any normal, right-thinking football fan, including NW fans, would in perfectly good conscience consider our offense to suck as of right now, based solely on the tOSU game. And that unfortunate fact would totally implicate our OC Tommy Rees, and MF and whoever else....

So is that what you're doing, trolling? In that you don't really believe a word of this line you keep repeating, but you just want to F with a certain subset of ND fans?
 
At some point you guys need to quit whining a out a single game.

1. We don't agree with the gameplan.
2. The oline play showed a lot more like last year's line than expected
3. The offense showed a lot less faith in young guys than the defense

It's silly to doubt Harry Heistand. Stop it. His line played bad. Got it. He is a good line coach. Two guys just had horrible communication and missed assignments. That's fixable. Calm down.

Who said Buchner is better rolling out and throwing on the run? No one. That's a huge assumption. In high school he was a prolific pocket passer that extended plays and can run. If you think they are going to run an offense like the elway broncos with rollouts every play you are simply mistaken. They do need to show some faith and let him throw. He threw with confidence and almost every ball was within the catch radius of the wr...discounting the overthrow....which SHOULD shut people up about his deep ball abilities.

Personally I think the three headed tv situation is a problem. Rees tried to play them all, and they all had specific alignments which telegraphs the play. Simplify the running game. Pound it with estime and mix in two back looks with Tyree/diggs with Tyree as third down back.
You're still doing it. Your posts are tendentious to the point where you're really just being a nuisance. And quite unjustifiably tendentious as well. Our offense did jack shit all night long and looked like shit. So please stop being such a know-it-all. You are taking a distinctly minority position, to the point where it almost looks like you're trolling, in insisting that what we witnessed some masterclass from Tommy Rees and co., when any normal, right-thinking football fan, including NW fans, would in perfectly good conscience consider our offense to suck as of right now, based solely on the tOSU game. And that unfortunate fact would totally implicate our OC Tommy Rees, and MF and whoever else....

So is that what you're doing, trolling? In that you don't really believe a word of this line you keep repeating, but you just want to F with a certain subset of ND fans?
Go away Felicia. Everyone knows your schtick.

Also my comment is clearly an indictment of Tommy rees' in action vs 8 in the box.
 
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You're still doing it. Your posts are tendentious to the point where you're really just being a nuisance. And quite unjustifiably tendentious as well. Our offense did jack shit all night long and looked like shit. So please stop being such a know-it-all. You are taking a distinctly minority position, to the point where it almost looks like you're trolling, in insisting that what we witnessed some masterclass from Tommy Rees and co., when any normal, right-thinking football fan, including NW fans, would in perfectly good conscience consider our offense to suck as of right now, based solely on the tOSU game. And that unfortunate fact would totally implicate our OC Tommy Rees, and MF and whoever else....

So is that what you're doing, trolling? In that you don't really believe a word of this line you keep repeating, but you just want to F with a certain subset of ND fans?
The object of these message boards is for everyone to express their takes and views. I'm saying that the ND staff did a fairly decent job considering the disadvantage they had - and the Vegas oddsmakers agreed before the game. But in your view - it's trolling. OK, whatever. Your view is the only one that counts. You should ask the ND staff if they can use any extra help.
 
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To put a brand new offense on the field against that defense was almost criminal. #51 was an animal. ND did well to hang in as close as they did, and most of the rest of the schedule (not clemson or sc) will seem like HS teams.

Buchner has played the best and survived. I'm just happy they got out healthy.
 
The object of these message boards is for everyone to express their takes and views. I'm saying that the ND staff did a fairly decent job considering the disadvantage they had - and the Vegas oddsmakers agreed before the game. But in your view - it's trolling. OK, whatever. Your view is the only one that counts. You should ask the ND staff if they can use any extra help.
I don't think so. I think it's pretty clear at this point that around 80% of message board regulars, especially when it comes to something like CFB, are just axe-grinders with their own often weirdo personal agendas that they want to pursue. And CFB is just the raw material for that.

Just look at the ND fanbase that you're now mingling among. They've gone completely off the reservation nuts, not just since BK left, it started well before that.... And there's simply nothin wrong with calling a spade a spade, and that our offense sucked. So you can have your absurd, more or less nonsense opinion that our coaches are geniuses, and tOSU is just so superhuman awesome on defense, that it was actually a coaching tour de force that we witnessed, and not just some shitty, underwhelming, impotent offensive performance....

But that's just bullshit. It's a totally stupid thing for anyone to say or think. How's anyone even supposed to respond to that? On what planet does any reasonably astute observer come to that conclusion? Nowhere, there are no such planets. So I'm doing you a favor in calling you a possible troll, which is definitely something people do, they troll, it's an exceedingly common phenomenon on social media. Rather than that you're actually serious about this brilliant coaching angle you keep repeating....
 
Good job by the ND coaching staff - nothing to hang their heads about. You kept a more talented team battling for their lives - at home - in front of 106,000 LOUD fans right into the 4th quarter

The 247 Composite has OSU as one of the 3 most talented teams in the country and Vegas even had ND as a 17 point underdog. Something tells me that MF and his staff will be a force to be reckoned with the rest of the year.


And most of the national sportscasters and writers were also complimenting the ND staff after the game.

Well, everybody but Savvyand sassier.......here he comes again. blah...blah...blah....blah
 
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Good job by the ND coaching staff - nothing to hang their heads about. You kept a more talented team battling for their lives - at home - in front of 106,000 LOUD fans right into the 4th quarter

The 247 Composite has OSU as one of the 3 most talented teams in the country and Vegas even had ND as a 17 point underdog. Something tells me that MF and his staff will be a force to be reckoned with the rest of the year.


And most of the national sportscasters and writers were also complimenting the ND staff after the game.

Well, everybody but Savvyand sassier.......here he comes again. blah...blah...blah....blah
You probably are a straight-up troll. You care way too much about this for some disinterested third party. Some random tOSU fan who supposedly is a graduate of one of America's truly elite universities, and yet is grinding away on this obscure message board with an odd insistence that ND's new coaching staff be given full credit and marks, despite producing a demonstrably bad, shitty offensive performance.

And now getting into it with me personally. And yet you're just some random stranger who only wants to give credit where its due, no dog in this fight....
 
You probably are a straight-up troll. You care way too much about this for some disinterested third party. Some random tOSU fan who supposedly is a graduate of one of America's truly elite universities, and yet is grinding away on this obscure message board with an odd insistence that ND's new coaching staff be given full credit and marks, despite producing a demonstrably bad, shitty offensive performance.

And now getting into it with me personally. And yet you're just some random stranger who only wants to give credit where its due, no dog in this fight....
This is HILARIOUS !!!! :):):)
 
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Seriously? One more time, Seriously? His name is Larry Johnson and anyone that remotely follows CF will concede that he's - by far - the greatest DL coach of the last 10 to 15 years. Just look at his former players that not only shined in CF but are now excelling in the NFL. I won't even bother to list them all as I'd get tired about halfway through it. Johnson was the only OSU defensive coach retained for 2022 - they fired the rest of them and brought in a new staff.

And let this sink in - the talent and depth on that OSU DL is off the charts - probably the deepest in CF. Clemson might - maybe - have the best starting DL but are nowhere as deep as OSU - not even on the same planet. According to the OSU official site, they rotated 10 DL players throughout the game including the number 4, 5, and 53 overall recruits in the 2021 class. They also have future NFL players like Zach Harrison, Taron Vincent, Jeron Cage and possibly Friday and Jean-Baptiste to go with those 3 explosive 2nd year players. You don't think that wears on the other team in the 2nd half? All 3 (Sawyer, Tuimoloau, and Hall) are only true sophomores but obviously ready to make their mark this year. That number # 51 that everyone keeps referring to - is Mike Hall.....the listed #53 overall recruit.


My point: Maybe it wasn't so much what ND failed to do but how good and dominating the other team was. Also - give the ND defensive coaches credit - a lot of credit - for holding that team down for a good part of the game. Their depth - on both sides of the ball - just eventually took over
hmmm? the notion of ‘give the other guy credit’ 🤔 good luck with that!
 
Seriously? One more time, Seriously? His name is Larry Johnson and anyone that remotely follows CF will concede that he's - by far - the greatest DL coach of the last 10 to 15 years. Just look at his former players that not only shined in CF but are now excelling in the NFL. I won't even bother to list them all as I'd get tired about halfway through it. Johnson was the only OSU defensive coach retained for 2022 - they fired the rest of them and brought in a new staff.

And let this sink in - the talent and depth on that OSU DL is off the charts - probably the deepest in CF. Clemson might - maybe - have the best starting DL but are nowhere as deep as OSU - not even on the same planet. According to the OSU official site, they rotated 10 DL players throughout the game including the number 4, 5, and 53 overall recruits in the 2021 class. They also have future NFL players like Zach Harrison, Taron Vincent, Jeron Cage and possibly Friday and Jean-Baptiste to go with those 3 explosive 2nd year players. You don't think that wears on the other team in the 2nd half? All 3 (Sawyer, Tuimoloau, and Hall) are only true sophomores but obviously ready to make their mark this year. That number # 51 that everyone keeps referring to - is Mike Hall.....the listed #53 overall recruit.


My point: Maybe it wasn't so much what ND failed to do but how good and dominating the other team was. Also - give the ND defensive coaches credit - a lot of credit - for holding that team down for a good part of the game. Their depth - on both sides of the ball - just eventually took over
Pretty sure OP was talking about tO$U's OL and OL coach.
 
Seriously? One more time, Seriously? His name is Larry Johnson and anyone that remotely follows CF will concede that he's - by far - the greatest DL coach of the last 10 to 15 years. Just look at his former players that not only shined in CF but are now excelling in the NFL. I won't even bother to list them all as I'd get tired about halfway through it. Johnson was the only OSU defensive coach retained for 2022 - they fired the rest of them and brought in a new staff.

And let this sink in - the talent and depth on that OSU DL is off the charts - probably the deepest in CF. Clemson might - maybe - have the best starting DL but are nowhere as deep as OSU - not even on the same planet. According to the OSU official site, they rotated 10 DL players throughout the game including the number 4, 5, and 53 overall recruits in the 2021 class. They also have future NFL players like Zach Harrison, Taron Vincent, Jeron Cage and possibly Friday and Jean-Baptiste to go with those 3 explosive 2nd year players. You don't think that wears on the other team in the 2nd half? All 3 (Sawyer, Tuimoloau, and Hall) are only true sophomores but obviously ready to make their mark this year. That number # 51 that everyone keeps referring to - is Mike Hall.....the listed #53 overall recruit.


My point: Maybe it wasn't so much what ND failed to do but how good and dominating the other team was. Also - give the ND defensive coaches credit - a lot of credit - for holding that team down for a good part of the game. Their depth - on both sides of the ball - just eventually took over
I gladly give credit when it's due but if you're following along we had three specific plays that our guard and center literally allowed him to walk in unscathed. Twice I believe were on third down...maybe all three were.

How does that happen? Poor coaching.
Now OSU might have a great Dline but at least three plays we completely ignored a defensive tackle and that's just unacceptable!! First game or not there should never ever be that poor of communication between guard and center.
Never!
 
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Seriously? One more time, Seriously? His name is Larry Johnson and anyone that remotely follows CF will concede that he's - by far - the greatest DL coach of the last 10 to 15 years. Just look at his former players that not only shined in CF but are now excelling in the NFL. I won't even bother to list them all as I'd get tired about halfway through it. Johnson was the only OSU defensive coach retained for 2022 - they fired the rest of them and brought in a new staff.

And let this sink in - the talent and depth on that OSU DL is off the charts - probably the deepest in CF. Clemson might - maybe - have the best starting DL but are nowhere as deep as OSU - not even on the same planet. According to the OSU official site, they rotated 10 DL players throughout the game including the number 4, 5, and 53 overall recruits in the 2021 class. They also have future NFL players like Zach Harrison, Taron Vincent, Jeron Cage and possibly Friday and Jean-Baptiste to go with those 3 explosive 2nd year players. You don't think that wears on the other team in the 2nd half? All 3 (Sawyer, Tuimoloau, and Hall) are only true sophomores but obviously ready to make their mark this year. That number # 51 that everyone keeps referring to - is Mike Hall.....the listed #53 overall recruit.


My point: Maybe it wasn't so much what ND failed to do but how good and dominating the other team was. Also - give the ND defensive coaches credit - a lot of credit - for holding that team down for a good part of the game. Their depth - on both sides of the ball - just eventually took over
I get your point, and it does impact the game in the 2nd half, however the O-line was missing assignments as early as the 2nd series.
 
I gladly give credit when it's due but if you're following along we had three specific plays that our guard and center literally allowed him to walk in unscathed. Twice I believe were on third down...maybe all three were.

How does that happen? Poor coaching.
Now OSU might have a great Dline but at least three plays we completely ignored a defensive tackle and that's just unacceptable!! First game or not there should never ever be that poor of communication between guard and center.
Never!
You didn't even know who Larry Johnson was. You know nothing
 
It sure is.....
UNQUESTIONABLY, IT IS.

Have you read the great L.A. skid row poet, Charles Bukowski? Author of such classics as Love Is a Dog from Hell, The Roominghouse Madrigals, Bone Palace Ballet and The Night Torn Mad with Footsteps - ? HIs stuff is very prose-like -- practically LINED PROSE.

The way you write reminds me a lot of his style. Check him out. You might enjoy his take. Plus, he's HILARIOUS.
 
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You didn't even know who Larry Johnson was. You know nothing
The guy I kept saying .... who was that guy ...
I was sarcastically referring to the OSU OFFENSIVE line coach.

I...as in me...know most of these guys. As in literally know them. My repeated sarcastic point was the media (like yourself) loves to latch on to something trendy and just keep rolling with it.
To assist you just a little bit more... the sarcasm was specifically directed at the yet again big game anemic ND rushing attack/offensive line play meanwhile Ohio State was reeling off gobs of yardage running the ball.
HH gets the red carpet and the OSU Oline coach gets narry a nod.

I'd say try and follow along but you already do that so maybe just keep your juvenile mind focused on your most favorite coach Brian Kelly and your SEC graceland.
 
The guy I kept saying .... who was that guy ...
I was sarcastically referring to the OSU OFFENSIVE line coach.

I...as in me...know most of these guys. As in literally know them. My repeated sarcastic point was the media (like yourself) loves to latch on to something trendy and just keep rolling with it.
To assist you just a little bit more... the sarcasm was specifically directed at the yet again big game anemic ND rushing attack/offensive line play meanwhile Ohio State was reeling off gobs of yardage running the ball.
HH gets the red carpet and the OSU Oline coach gets narry a nod.

I'd say try and follow along but you already do that so maybe just keep your juvenile mind focused on your most favorite coach Brian Kelly and your SEC graceland.
Yeah.... okay. You don't have a clue
 
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