Hamilton is too good for our backfield. He's going to have to pick up a lot of slack. The kid is the only legit player back there.
Spring practice update
- Thread starter Zorich 88
- Start date
You make a valid point about Wimbush. We all thought he was going to be better than Golson. Mobile, runner, big arm.
We were wrong. BK is not us. He is the coach and it still baffles me how our coaches did not see WIMBUSHS SEVERE and I mean severe, limitations as a passer
He flat out sucked. Short throws into the dirt. Etc. He goes to UCF and immediately gets benched. I mean he was horrible. So as a fan I get what you are saying on his upside but no way I can give Kelly or our coaches a pass on wimbush. I attended the Miami game in 2017. We were undefeated. Wimbush stunk. Book came in n three an int but you could see the guy had passing ability in spades over Wimbush
Essentially what happened is that Wimbush was able to lead us to several wins in 17 but teams caught in to him and knew if they kept him in the pocket he could not beat them. We lost just about every game after Miami.
Book had Claypool and Boykin in 18 and Claypool again in 19. I don’t think giving up the middle was by design. It was part of Ian not wanting to turn the ball over.
It is rare to predict whether a quarterback will end up good unless they're top 5 overall and a legit 5 star that excels at camps. We have had a lot of busts. So have many other teams. This position seems the hardest to predict. I personally think there are way too many 5 stars handed out to quarterbacks. No chance Dayne Crist or that Kiel kid should've been 5 star players.
Well we didn't lose every game after Miami, we only lost to Stanford. But it was painfully, shockingly obvious as quickly as the first UGA game that Wimbush couldn't pass for shit, for whatever reason, which must have come as a horrifying revelation to the coaches. Fortunately we had a full complement of good RBs, a good running if not passing QB, and a genuinely superior OL even by ND standards.
So even though BK might have felt at the time as if this could be the end for him as head football coach at ND, we miraculously managed to go 9-3 and have a pretty awesome season nonetheless, though of course the subtext would be that it was unsustainable that the program can keep its head above water with as non-functional a passer as BW as your starting QB. And he had to be replaced. Must needs be replaced....
And of course that's where Ian Book's story really began, and the rest is history, baby!
Book had two starting NFL WRs and a starting NFL TE all at the same time....... WEAPONS WERE NOT AN ISSUE!
TE are nice but the CFB and NFL are completely different now. In CFB you need to be able to score quickly and score a lot to beat the elite teams. You aren't going to win anything a title or beat the elite teams controlling the clock and playing great defense.
As I've said, it's not just me saying this Saban has said exactly this.
Also, I didn't mean to imply weapons were the issue, I'm talking about scheme. The offensive philosophy has to change
Maybe it wasn't by design I'm not sure since I'm not involved. All I know is you very rarely saw slant's or WRs attacking the middle of the field between the Safety's. It could be they did and Book just didn't throw that way. All I know is that if you could cover the edges you could limit the big plays by ND
Yeah no one wants a Gronk, Kelce or Kittle in the nfl haha. Get outta here with that.
I suppose that high school defenses are not very menacing. Thus QBs are ranked based on how they throw during those drills at the many camps.
Coaches coach players on the field. When Clark gets healthy maybe BK talks about him. He handled the Zaire/Kiser situation the way he should have. Zaire got hurt and Kiser took the job and ran with it. Zaire never recovered.
He was good last year and was a true freshman. Myles Boykin says Hi from the NFL. I believe Tony Jones Jr. was on a team as well. 😜
He handled the Kizer/Zaire situation about as bad as it could possibly be handled by anyone. So I must be misunderstanding you somehow. As far as what's going on now, I don't know, I'm a little bored, but I do feel like saying, given his terrible track record with handing the QB position in the off-season in at least one recent instance, that he's possibly not handling it that great this time either. For the reasons I already stated. Even though the situation is admittedly totally different in this case.
It may not bother you and you think nothing of it, that's your choice. But it caught my eye, and so I mentioned it. Now that we're about halfway through spring practice. I have this crazy thing where I contemplate how the future might go, based on the actions that are being taken now in the present. You know what that is, right? And so I'm just a wee bit uneasy that he could be handling this better. It's only because I love BK so much that I fear he may put his foot in his mouth for no particularly good reason, and is sort of doing that a little bit already.
That's not what I said and in fact said the opposite. Good TE are hugely valuable in the NFL but not as much in CFB. In CFB it's all about skill position guys that can take it to the house.
Not a bad thought. However, if ND does make that move and a former WR takes the job of a recruited CB, that is a bad sign to say the least.
I believe CB that have played for ND the past few years are good. Maybe it was a scheme issue? CB is definitely one of the hardest positions to play in football. CB cover the most athletic player on the opposing team. The WR and CB know exactly where they are going. The CB has to have great instincts to make a play.
It's all about putting up the points. No matter how you get there. No one is turning down Kyle Pitts or Michael Mayer
Myles shocked me for sure with his combine, I was wrong there.
Hope Lewis proves me wrong too, practice videos he’s looked awful. I was right on Jones. Making practice squad due to ND name.
I agree it's all about putting up points in todays game. I just don't think you can do it against the elite teams. trying to march the ball down the field. Even if you have an elite defense you are going to have to score at least 35 pts against 'Bama's and Clemson's of the world.
You need to big plays that chew up lots of yards and you just aren't going to do that if your TE is you main receiving weapon. A great TE is useful as he can open up the rest of the field an prevent double coverage everywhere.
Savvy... I think we all can agree that BK screwed up in 2015 with the Zaire Kizer Fiasco. IIRC it caused a little bit of a rift on the team. I remember watching a video after the Zaire injury for he was talking to his parents and BK said this will always be Malik's team. Regardless, you are correct that he doesn't lead to name a starting quarterback at the end of spring practice. Competition brings out the best. Who knows, Tyler may have an unbelievable summer and impress everybody and be the starting quarterback. I don't believe that, but hey stranger things have happened at Notre Dame. Yes, it seems that Clark is being written off, but in Virginia he was considered a very good quarterback in high school. Knee injuries are tough. I think the knee injury was a little worse than what was reported cause I believe he had a knee injury in high school and he had surgery. In the end, I don't think anyone should take for granted who's starting. Otherwise you have a tendency to get complacent. But when a starting quarterback is named in the fall, everyone should get behind that quarterback unless he really screws up. I think we're going to have a dominant defense, and I think our offense will be better. We have some real talent at the wideouts though untested, a unbelievable tight end, and we have studs on the offensive line. In 1988, I believe that Holtz had to replace the entire offensive line, and we won a national championship. It comes down to coaching, and how well the players want to respond.
Agree with this. The frustration for me was Wimbush’s incredible degree of inconsistency. He looked like the difference maker QB we all thought he was against the likes of a Michigan St and USC, and an overmatched QB wannabe against Miami. Kelly and staff had to have seen this inconsistency during practices, but must have believed they could coach him up to play at the tantalizing level he showed against USC. I can’t really imagine the pressure of playing QB at a big time program in college, but I think you have to be really strong mentally to overcome bad plays and bad games, and I don’t think Wimbush had the swagger and mental toughness to do this. He was like a golfer who developed a shank and lost confidence in his swing, and your game just spirals down. Must be hard to evaluate the mental aspects of high school QB’s and how they will perform in the college game, but it sure seems that other top programs do a better job of this than we have under Kelly. Ski...I was more pissed and embarrassed for our team with that damn Miami game than any other in recent memory, and I remember you being there and suffering through it. Bad memories!
I think your comment about Wimbush losing confidence is the most telling and accurate. I believe this to be the case. He was not as bad in the beginning as he became. Sure he had throwing limitations early but not like the way he was later. It was baffling and frustrating to watch him throw in the dirt I felt bad for him cause we all wanted him to succeed. It seemed more head case than lack of talent
This D line depth that Elston has created is awesome. Guys can step in and not miss a beat. Major size too. On film they are stuffing to of the best backs in the country. Given that is an inexperienced frontline on O compared to last year. Once Patterson gets back and these new guys get reps , things will gel.
I know. And while we are not in BK's head, I would bet a million dollars that is what was motivating his actions the whole time - the fact that not only he made a promise to Malik, but that he was actually caught on film doing so. I feel for BK in that case, and it doesn't make it any easier. But I don't think anyone anywhere would have held it against him, if they even put two and two together, if BK were to go back on his word, as long as he was cool about it, and broke the news to Zaire that he had been Wally Pipped and that unfortunately for him Kizer is the starter - quite obviously, no long explanation required - and that's how it's going to be moving forward.
It's definitely not a fun or easy situation for a coach. But it's got to be done, you've got to have that leadership. And BK showed NONE, and basically did the exact opposite of what you want to do. You saw how Nick Saban got a little pissy, and he obviously wasn't happy to have to do it, but he made the tough choice, and moved Tua into the starting lineup and put Jalen Hurts on the bench for the good of the team, and that was after Tua only played one half of the MNC game! In our case Kizer was a star for us for an entire season and all BK had to do was show a little guts. Because the choice of what needed to be done was obvious for anyone to appreciate.
Is it possible BK actually wanted Zaire back in the lineup simply on the merits, and he actually felt Malik was the better talent? I don't think so, I don't think that's a serious possibility. I think BK was just too much of a gutless chickenshit to make the necessary bold stand. The highly obvious decision - in this case - a HC should be expected to take even if it isn't too much fun to break the news. And the alternative..... well you saw how it all played out. And the football gods punished BK harshly for his dithering.
I love BK to death, I always will, but that is not his strength. Having to handle situations.
LB group is looking good on film.
Bo Bauer and Simone are playing fast! Getting to the backfield a lot. Drew White??? Some type of injury?
Marist Liufau looks really good.
JD Bertrand is also making plays.
Houston Griffith along with Hamilton are easy my concerns about the back end. Kelly said Houston is playing with a “high I.Q.”.
CB is still a major concern
Bo Bauer and Simone are playing fast! Getting to the backfield a lot. Drew White??? Some type of injury?
Marist Liufau looks really good.
JD Bertrand is also making plays.
Houston Griffith along with Hamilton are easy my concerns about the back end. Kelly said Houston is playing with a “high I.Q.”.
CB is still a major concern
Yep... CB and QB... no clue what to expect .... Lewis gives up 1-2 tds per practice video. Alarming
My way to early QB prediction:
1. Coan Starts this season
2. Clark and Pyne transfer by the end of next season
3. Buchner a three year starter at ND
If the first one happens then the other two will follow.
If Pyne gets the starting job this season and looks really good, then it gets real interesting.
ND has talent at the QB position. Each of the four could be the starter.
It sounds like Kelly is a big Pyne fan. He has basically said it is his job to lose.
1. Coan Starts this season
2. Clark and Pyne transfer by the end of next season
3. Buchner a three year starter at ND
If the first one happens then the other two will follow.
If Pyne gets the starting job this season and looks really good, then it gets real interesting.
ND has talent at the QB position. Each of the four could be the starter.
It sounds like Kelly is a big Pyne fan. He has basically said it is his job to lose.
I think this is going to be a standard line for most HC's this spring and going forward.
Unless you've got a returning starter at QB who is a lock why would you declare a starter ?
They'll be a ton of backup QB's in the portal by May 1st and the reality is your backup is 1 play away from being your starter.
Unless you've got a returning starter at QB who is a lock why would you declare a starter ?
They'll be a ton of backup QB's in the portal by May 1st and the reality is your backup is 1 play away from being your starter.
GN- I know how you felt about Book. What are your thoughts on Pyne? Better thrower than Ian?
He has shown (not in college games) the ability to push the ball much better, and throw WRs open. Slightly stronger arm. But he's smaller than Ian and significantly less athletic. He's not a terrible athlete (Clausen or Tommy) but defenses won't be scared of his running ability.
Because of his size and lack of athleticism ND doesn't have the Alabama talent around him to compete for NC. Coan and Buchner have much more talent, Coan has great experience as well.
I don't know if it would be a good sign or bad sign if Pyne would beat Coan out this year. I believe it would be a bad sign, and honestly bad for the program. Ideal situation is Coan is best QB this year and maybe next (if he stays for 2) then Buchner takes over for 2-3 years and lives up to the hype.
Ideal situation has never happened at ND with QB under Kelly.
Book threw an unbelievably nice ball and easy to catch. Pyne has the most natural throwing motion and ball but coan is really solid too. Buchner has some issue with his motion. NO clue how it went from really good 2 years ago, to short and kinda side arm.
Keep in mind, anyone that earns a full ride to play QB at Notre Dame, is a good and capable QB. That being said, You cannot coach experience. Coan has that advantage. Playbook knowledge is also big. Reports were that Jurkovec was not grasping the playbook. If Coan can grasp the whole playbook by August, then he will start.
Indoor practice shows good QB film. I do not see a sidearm from Buchner. Granted, he does not look great. However, his form seems the same as his junior year in high school.
High School
Tyler Buchner on Hudl
Watch Tyler Buchner's videos and highlights on Hudl. More info: The Bishops School - Boys Varsity Football / QB / Class of 2021 / La Jolla, CA
www.hudl.com
we’ll find out when the offense takes the field in the first game.
I listened to a podcast yesterday. It was good, Pete Sampson and Tim Prister and some other guy. I miss those guys. I also listen to podcasts and updates from the publishers of this website, including our own Mike Singer and I have strong brand loyalty. So I always go to Rivals first. But I happened to listen to a 247 one this time.
But anyway, at the very end they took questions from the general public, and some fan point black asked what about Brandon Clark, and what's the deal with him? And none of them had any answers. Other than of course that he's injured, or otherwise incapacitated and unable to practice and the show must go on, so it just sucks to be him I guess.
And that sums it up, and that's all anyone anywhere has to say. There's no plan, other than 'Oh shit, what about Brandon Clark?' Shoulder shrug.... But it is true that the show must go on, and naturally they're not going to cancel spring practice on account of Clark's incapacitation. I suppose he'll transfer, if indeed the program has sort of already moved on. It does kind of fill you with misgiving for a bit about the whole transfer thing. If you can just grab a transfer at any time, you can toss your damaged goods into the scrap heap, and you don't have to be as committed to the guys already on the roster. Then again we were very lucky someone as qualified as Coan was even available.
And then again, Clark can easily transfer as well. So that's good for guys in his situation. But it is a new dynamic into the mix, and it's not all skittles and beer.
But anyway, at the very end they took questions from the general public, and some fan point black asked what about Brandon Clark, and what's the deal with him? And none of them had any answers. Other than of course that he's injured, or otherwise incapacitated and unable to practice and the show must go on, so it just sucks to be him I guess.
And that sums it up, and that's all anyone anywhere has to say. There's no plan, other than 'Oh shit, what about Brandon Clark?' Shoulder shrug.... But it is true that the show must go on, and naturally they're not going to cancel spring practice on account of Clark's incapacitation. I suppose he'll transfer, if indeed the program has sort of already moved on. It does kind of fill you with misgiving for a bit about the whole transfer thing. If you can just grab a transfer at any time, you can toss your damaged goods into the scrap heap, and you don't have to be as committed to the guys already on the roster. Then again we were very lucky someone as qualified as Coan was even available.
And then again, Clark can easily transfer as well. So that's good for guys in his situation. But it is a new dynamic into the mix, and it's not all skittles and beer.
In addition to Clark, old boy is out at WR. Kevin Austin. So that ship may have sailed as well. Especially with the way someone like Wilkins is stepping up. And Wilkins is someone who seems like they definitely deserve to play. He's not the most purely gifted, but he does appear to grade rather highly in terms of effort/performance, and appears to be showing out very well all around.
Austin may be able to more easily work his way back into the mix as a WR over the summer and fall. But for a QB like Clark the timing of this is almost like a death sentence. It really does suck to be him.
Austin may be able to more easily work his way back into the mix as a WR over the summer and fall. But for a QB like Clark the timing of this is almost like a death sentence. It really does suck to be him.
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