Phil Jurkovec Transferring

[Get Nasty]

As a former D1 power 5 athlete, if you're not getting playing time when you think you should, you find every reason to be pissed off at the coaches. It's natural, especially if you're busting your rear end.

My personal opinion;

I honestly do believe Phil was working his rear end off and trying to do everything the coaches were telling him. He just flat out wasn't good enough and kelly didn't trust him. I have been in the Phil camp where after UM I felt that Phil should get a ton more playing time unless Kelly believes Phil isn't going to be the QB of the future including 2020. With Kelly's comments on how bad he wanted Book back I think that lets you know, it at least lets me know he didn't believe in Phil. So, Phil working his butt off, wanting more PT, not getting it, you are just going to be ticked off at the coach for anything big or small. What Kelly said or did as far as I know wasn't that big of a deal, but again, when you aren't getting PT it's going to become a big deal to you. What the staff did, if it was a starter, it would be absolutely no big deal.

I've been around it and saw it, and even lived it at times. To me the bottom line is this. Kelly didn't believe in him being the QB of the future at ND. Everything else is dominos. My personal opinion with NO first hand knowledge of the situation, just hear say. As we know, Hear say is more important that first hand facts.


You want to talk about a coach really throwing players under the bus, watch Roy Williams post game from saturday. He was naming names and giving specific examples of the wrong his players were doing vs what they were coaching. This is no where near that.

 

[stu4don]

For the record, ND is going to be fine. They're not winning anything of significance with Ian Book at QB unless improves dramatically, which I don't see happening. That said, they were winning anything with Phil Jurcovec either, IMO, without even more significant improvement than what Book needs.

I do like Brandon Clark's ability to spin the ball and he's an accurate kid. Should serve as a capable backup this year in that he can run the same offense Ian runs. His 2nd team reps will be seamless, unlike they reportedly were with Phil. I don't think Clarke is an elite level guy either, but should make for a quality depth piece. Tyler Buchner is likely the next chance ND has at developing a "game changer".

I've been talking about this inevitability of this transfer for a long time. It was expected by me, so I'm sure the ND staff had a good pulse on the situation.


As for Kelly publically throwing the kid under the bus... Brian Kelly couldn't even come close to being critical of Ian Book early in the year when he was scuffling. He wasn't even critical of him after Michigan.

That said, he made stupid, unneccessary remarks about Phil multiple times this season. Here are a couple examples.

- Kelly openly chided him in the media for reading the wrong play card in the game. Kelly rarely divulges that kind of info, but found it neccessary to tell the media about it in a press conference, when asked about Phil's play. Completely unnecessary. The type of stuff that stays inside a program.

- When asked why Phil wasn't getting more time late in games when ND was blowing opponents out and why Ian Book wasn't coming out in those situations, Kelly responded (I don't have the exact quote) "If I thought Phil could help us win, I'd play him."

Again, they had no confidence in the kid at all. Maybe that was totally warranted. We'll never know. Regardless, I hope he goes elsewhere a flourishes. Seems like a great kid who simply wasn't a good fit at Notre Dame during this staff's tenure. Wish him the best and, hopefully, one of Clarke or Pyne wind up over-achieving, or Buchner is ready to go as a freshman.

Sorry IIO, you know I value your posts but I just don't think this is 'throwing Phil under the bus' -- if it is, then maybe Phil should leave because this is the way coaches motivate players. As a teacher, I learn very early in a class what students I can tease, what students I can push and how hard -- kids all respond to analysis and criticism in different ways. Coaches, like teachers, need to be psychologists... Kelly would not have the record he has or have been coach of the year three times and undefeated twice if he didn't understand that. These comments are motivating comments. Some people take that and run with it, compete harder, challenge themselves. Others transfer. Maybe Kelly never took the time to work with Phil -- I doubt that, but if it is true then that is on Brian. I hoped Phil would be our guy in 2021.

I could see Phil playing for a guy like Fleck. I hope he does well and is not the next Gunner Kiel.

 

[NIN Irish]

Yes but he should still have two more. I hope he gets a waiver.

He has 3 years of eligibility left.

 

[stu4don]

IIO -- would you go after Cade Mays? (He was a guy we liked, right?)

 

[Get Nasty]

Another factor in his leaving is that there was never going to be any competition for the job in 2020. Ian Book has essentially been awarded the position as a reward for deciding to stay at ND, in hopes that he has yet another jump in production in him.

As you know, i'm not in the book super duper fan club. With that said, I absolutely wanted book back after what i've seen the last 2 years from Phil. I had high hopes before the AA game, and it keeps going downhill each time I see him. Every time i've seen him at QB the last 2 years, he's never seemed like a QB to me. Physical traits are off the chart non mechanical. There's bad forms throwing and then there's phils throwing motion.

Also, kelly didn't want to bench wimbush, that was all long. I've come to the belief that even though Kelly wasn't big on Book at first, he clearly knows he's the best QB on his roster right now. Good enough to win a championship with, not right now, but I do believe he's out best chance in 2020. It will be interesting to see who wins backup.

 

[IrishInOntario]

IIO -- would you go after Cade Mays? (He was a guy we liked, right?)

I think he's a better fit back at Tennessee. He'll be back at home, playing for a team that is building, on an offensive line that needs help immediately.

ND already has 7 OL they like for 2020 in Eichenberg, Banks, Patterson, Kraemer, Hainsey, Lugg and Caroll.

 

[twalsh]

IIO -- would you go after Cade Mays? (He was a guy we liked, right?)

Is Mays in the portal? And yes, he was heavily pursued by ND, before going to Georgia.

 

[d1042]

Smart move, respect him for the decision. He wants to compete.
The next decision he make is going to be very important to his football future.

 

[stu4don]

I think he's a better fit back at Tennessee. He'll be back at home, playing for a team that is building, on an offensive line that needs help immediately.

ND already has 7 OL they like for 2020 in Eichenberg, Banks, Patterson, Kraemer, Hainsey, Lugg and Caroll.

Yeah, I agree... Just read he is going home. Fromm is gone from G too.

 

[Connono1]

i think its outright nonsense to say any player "was not given the chance to develop ". where do you think that happens ? it happens on the practice field. I personally would have liked to see more of him in games but that's just me. He obviously feels it's in his best interest to move on. to blame the coaching staff for that is really shortsighted in my opinion. I just don't understand that line of thinking.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

Sidenote:

A certain group of posters on here consider me a BK apologist. A ND/BK homer. They think I always blindly agree with BK & ND.
Then when I don’t, now I’m anti-BK & the ND staff? Interesting.
What happened to Phil isn’t a secret. It’s a known thing now. I think the ND staff were wrong. I think they handled the situation wrong. And they compounded it by how they didn’t fix it.

Send one link to any of these stories ... just one link

 

[Connono1]

As expected and anticipated by anyone and everyone with a clue.

Good luck big fella! ND's now all in on Ian Book getting better and Tyler Buchner being ready as a freshman.

I think they will regret this move.

 

[d1042]

My prediction is 2 of 3: Clark, Pyne, Buchner will ultimately transfer. Buchner’s recruitment may not be over.

 

[deadprez3]

Objectively, this can only be considered yet another failure by Kelly and his offensive coaching staff.

They continue to exhibit the lack of coaching acumen and flexibility necessary to allow their most physically gifted athletes to play.

Instead they remain stubbornly inflexible with their scheme whilst simultaneously exhibiting the lack of ability to adequately train their players how to execute said scheme should they have any shortcomings on matter.

Thankfully Lea has offered some short term reprieve from this ailment on the defensive side of the ball lest we be required to have Joe Schmidt's little brother assume JOK's position on the field in order to oversee an equally inane scheme.

Ho hum, I suppose he is better than Robert Davie so we shall cease from any critical dialogue on the matter.

I shall join the fray and agree that the inability for the more physically talented player to secure the position lay solely as his responsibility and the coaching staff should be admonished from any fault.

For what rational being would anticipate it be the coach's responsibility to put their most talented players in the optimum position for success as opposed to merely selecting the player that can require the least assistance on obtaining appropriate passage onto the field?

 

[Get Nasty]

My prediction is 2 of 3: Clark, Pyne, Buchner will ultimately transfer. Buchner’s recruitment may not be over.

His recruitment nor any verbals are over until they sign.
With that said, the opportunity in front of buchner now is unreal at ND. Talent they have here and coming in. He has to be chomping at the bits, i think he said he was going to EE too.

 

[NDIRISH53]

Can he claim an transfer portal exception because of Chip's firing (did Chip recruit him) and maybe get on the field next year? (That is the only way it makes sense to me.)

That would make sense. I don’t love the crazy nature of the transfer portal. But I think if your head coach, or position coach leaves you should be able to be eligible right away

 

[mirer03]

Objectively, this can only be considered yet another failure by Kelly and his offensive coaching staff.

They continue to exhibit the lack of coaching acumen and flexibility necessary to allow their most physically gifted athletes to play.

Instead they remain stubbornly inflexible with their scheme whilst simultaneously exhibiting the lack of ability to adequately train their players how to execute said scheme should they have any shortcomings on matter.

Thankfully Lea has offered some short term reprieve from this ailment on the defensive side of the ball lest we be required to have Joe Schmidt's little brother assume JOK's position on the field in order to oversee an equally inane scheme.

Ho hum, I suppose he is better than Robert Davie so we shall cease from any critical dialogue on the matter.

I shall join the fray and agree that the inability for the more physically talented player to secure the position lay solely as his responsibility and the coaching staff should be admonished from any fault.

For what rational being would anticipate it be the coach's responsibility to put their most talented players in the optimum position for success as opposed to merely selecting the player that can require the least assistance on obtaining appropriate passage onto the field?

Total nonsense.

Your scholarship tight.
You have solid qb recruits coming in
You havent seen enough from phil to guarantee him pt down the road over inc comp.

Fresh start for him and freed schollie for ND. Win win

 

[Bumpdaddy]

Those saying that PJ is making a mistake by transferring are, as usual, not seeing things from his perspective. What would staying do for him personally? He would be the backup to Ian Book in 2020... just as he was in 2019. There is no reason for him to believe that he would get any more playing time in 2020 than he did in 2019. In fact, it's likely he'd get less playing time because the coaches will have to start thinking about giving Brendon Clark game reps now that he's exhausted his redshirt status. So, barring injury, 2020 would basically be another "sit and wait" year for PJ with his prospects of ascending to the number one guy in 2021 being - and this is the best-case scenario - completely up in the air. Worst case scenario is he's a longshot to ever become the starter regardless of who you blame for his lack of development - Phil because he just couldn't get it done in practice or BK and staff because they weren't able to turn "the best QB in the country", as BK stated on NSD in Dec. of 2017, into a starting QB at the college level.

By transferring, he is getting a completely fresh start and he gets to pick a school where he can compete for the starting job right away and possibly have 2 to 3 years as a starter as opposed to a max of 2 years. And if he has to sit out a year, that doesn't change how many more years of eligibility he has left. And besides Alohi Gilman, when was the last time the NCAA denied a transferring player's request to play right away?

His decision makes total sense to me even though I would have loved to see what he could do at ND in a year or two. I hope the very best for him.

 

[IrishMike409]

Phil was considered one of the hardest workers on the team. According to BK’s last interview Phil was the “clear #2,” getting better every day & challenging Book.
You might want to go learn what happened.
It has nothing to do with Phil’s football abilities.

Then please enlighten us. What “happened”?

 

[francade]

“They're not winning anything of significance with Ian Book at QB unless improves dramatically, which I don't see happening.”

I would think that making the playoffs in his first year starting is something “of significance”, but that’s just me.

And the improvement that you “don’t see happening”, is that prediction anything like when you thought he was a “backup at best”?

 

[Get Nasty]

Those saying that PJ is making a mistake by transferring are, as usual, not seeing things from his perspective. What would staying do for him personally? He would be the backup to Ian Book in 2020... just as he was in 2019. There is no reason for him to believe that he would get any more playing time in 2020 than he did in 2019. In fact, it's likely he'd get less playing time because the coaches will have to start thinking about giving Brendon Clark game reps now that he's exhausted his redshirt status. So, barring injury, 2020 would basically be another "sit and wait" year for PJ with his prospects of ascending to the number one guy in 2021 being - and this is the best-case scenario - completely up in the air. Worst case scenario is he's a longshot to ever become the starter regardless of who you blame for his lack of development - Phil because he just couldn't get it done in practice or BK and staff because they weren't able to turn "the best QB in the country", as BK stated on NSD in Dec. of 2017, into a starting QB at the college level.

By transferring, he is getting a completely fresh start and he gets to pick a school where he can compete for the starting job right away and possibly have 2 to 3 years as a starter as opposed to a max of 2 years. And if he has to sit out a year, that doesn't change how many more years of eligibility he has left. And besides Alohi Gilman, when was the last time the NCAA denied a transferring player's request to play right away?

His decision makes total sense to me even though I would have loved to see what he could do at ND in a year or two. I hope the very best for him.

I think his decision makes total sense because he didn't think he would play here, and everyone is just waiting for buchner in 21.

 

[IrishMike409]

He should have been given more real playing time. Not just keep Book in to inflate his numbers against inferior teams. Then when he finally does get put the play book is closed and he's relegated to handing off.

“He should have been given more real playing time”.

Based on what? You’re not the coach either. You see games. That amounts to roughly 1% of what’s happening within the program. You don’t see practice. You’re not in the meetings. You’re not in the locker room.

Just don’t get the insistence that Phil “should’ve been given PT”.

Books record as a starter speaks for itself.

 

[Get Nasty]

“They're not winning anything of significance with Ian Book at QB unless improves dramatically, which I don't see happening.”

I would think that making the playoffs in his first year starting is something “of significance”, but that’s just me.

And the improvement that you “don’t see happening”, is that prediction anything like when you thought he was a “backup”?

Agree, but remember we beat a pretty darn good UM team in 2018. It was by far our biggest win. We are in playoffs this year if we beat a lesser UM team.

Get my drift

 

[Toby Smart]

Good luck Phil. I really wish you well. Once a Domer, always a Domer. BK, the developer of QBs. LOL!

 

[francade]

“Agree, but remember we beat a pretty darn good UM team in 2018. It was by far our biggest win. We are in playoffs this year if we beat a lesser UM team.

Get my drift”

No, I don’t get your drift. Book & ND would’ve beaten them worse. And using a game where the weather completely ruined the passing game is stupid, right up your alley on the subject.

 

[scubastevefl]

BK’s building his teams up every 3 years, 12-15-18-21? Buchner is ready to go as a Freshman.

 

[1Redrum]

Those saying that PJ is making a mistake by transferring are, as usual, not seeing things from his perspective. What would staying do for him personally? He would be the backup to Ian Book in 2020... just as he was in 2019. There is no reason for him to believe that he would get any more playing time in 2020 than he did in 2019. In fact, it's likely he'd get less playing time because the coaches will have to start thinking about giving Brendon Clark game reps now that he's exhausted his redshirt status. So, barring injury, 2020 would basically be another "sit and wait" year for PJ with his prospects of ascending to the number one guy in 2021 being - and this is the best-case scenario - completely up in the air. Worst case scenario is he's a longshot to ever become the starter regardless of who you blame for his lack of development - Phil because he just couldn't get it done in practice or BK and staff because they weren't able to turn "the best QB in the country", as BK stated on NSD in Dec. of 2017, into a starting QB at the college level.

By transferring, he is getting a completely fresh start and he gets to pick a school where he can compete for the starting job right away and possibly have 2 to 3 years as a starter as opposed to a max of 2 years. And if he has to sit out a year, that doesn't change how many more years of eligibility he has left. And besides Alohi Gilman, when was the last time the NCAA denied a transferring player's request to play right away?

His decision makes total sense to me even though I would have loved to see what he could do at ND in a year or two. I hope the very best for him.

He could have come gone to spring ball..then summer camp...then start the year and if he wins the job great, if Book gets injured and he is given the job then great...if not he just makes sure he does not play any more than 4 games and then still has two years of eligibility remaining. He would likely graduate next spring and then move on without sitting out a year. Seems simple to me. Plus he ends up with his ND degree.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

So Pyne is 1 play away. Books been lucky without injury. I bet we see Pyne play next season.

 

[scubastevefl]

I didn’t realize K.J. Costello is in the portal too, I remember some people on this board being super high on his as a recruit.

 

[twalsh]

I didn’t realize K.J. Costello is in the portal too, I remember some people on this board being super high on his as a recruit.

He's one of the guys being mentioned for Georgia.

 

[IrishInOntario]

“They're not winning anything of significance with Ian Book at QB unless improves dramatically, which I don't see happening.”

I would think that making the playoffs in his first year starting is something “of significance”, but that’s just me.

And the improvement that you “don’t see happening”, is that prediction anything like when you thought he was a “backup at best”?

Backup on a title contender to be exact. There is a ton of nuance between those two.

Yes, Ian Book has proven to be better than I thought he could be. No Ian Book has shown a shred of ability that would lead anyone to believe that ND could beat an Ohio State, Clemson or LSU program in 2020. There are about 5 teams that are gatekeepers for the Championship right now.

1. Clemson
2. Alabama
3. Ohio State
4. LSU
5. Georgia

I don't see Ian Book as some transcendent talent that can be the difference in overcoming the talent gap possessed by those programs. It's not fault of the kid. He's really solid. A top 4 QB at ND over the past 15 years (along with Quinn, Clausen and Kizer), but in the national landscape he hasn't yet proven to be near the capability of a Lawrence, Burrow, Tu'a, or Fields... And he doesn't have the supporting cast that Fromm does.

The kid is good, but does anybody actually think he's good enough to play for a title? JMO.

 

[Get Nasty]

“Agree, but remember we beat a pretty darn good UM team in 2018. It was by far our biggest win. We are in playoffs this year if we beat a lesser UM team.

Get my drift”

No, I don’t get your drift. Book & ND would’ve beaten them worse. And using a game where the weather completely ruined the passing game is stupid, right up your alley on the subject.

Ha, no. Kelly and everyone know now why they game planned wimbush as QB vs UM. The pressure Wimbush was under, book would have looked worse than clemson.

I didn't say it, you didn't say it, kelly said it. The only way ND was winning the game was with wimbush at QB, he had the characteristics needed to beat UM, and he did.

 

[Get Nasty]

He could have come gone to spring ball..then summer camp...then start the year and if he wins the job great, if Book gets injured and he is given the job then great...if not he just makes sure he does not play any more than 4 games and then still has two years of eligibility remaining. He would likely graduate next spring and then move on without sitting out a year. Seems simple to me. Plus he ends up with his ND degree.

you only have 5 years to play 4...... He has 3 years left of playing, if he transfers with no waiver, that uses up a year and he'll have 2 years left.

 

[deadprez3]

BK’s building his teams up every 3 years, 12-15-18-21? Buchner is ready to go as a Freshman.

The 2015 team would easily dispatch of the 2018 team from purely a raw talent standpoint.

And most assuredly on the field should they have both received the same defensive coaching.

Also, the change in defensive coaching from 2015 to 2018 would not have come about except for that it was thrust upon Kelly as a requirement.

So I would disagree with your premise quite heartily. There has neither been an improvement from a talent perspective nor has Kelly "built up" the team as he is not even responsible for the primary reason for the perceived improvement of the program (defensive leadership and day to day defensive coaching).

I also have difficulty envisioning the 2018 offense scoring an appreciable amount of points on the 2012 defense. Although the same could likely be said of the 2012 offense vs the 2018 defense. Would likely be a stalemate between the two teams and definitely the 2018 team could not be objectively observed as a clearly superior team to 2012.

I think you missed the mark quite dearly here.

 

[Get Nasty]

I didn’t realize K.J. Costello is in the portal too, I remember some people on this board being super high on his as a recruit.

Georgia looking at him

 

[IrishInOntario]

“Agree, but remember we beat a pretty darn good UM team in 2018. It was by far our biggest win. We are in playoffs this year if we beat a lesser UM team.

Get my drift”

No, I don’t get your drift. Book & ND would’ve beaten them worse. And using a game where the weather completely ruined the passing game is stupid, right up your alley on the subject.

You don't know that at all. Brian Kelly specifically said that ND felt they needed Brandon's elite running ability and escapabilty to beat Michigan in 2018, when asked about Ian Book and what changed between Brandon's time as a starter and their decision to make the switch to Ian.

You don't know that Ian Book would have beat Michigan badly any more than I would know if I was trying to convince you that he would have play as horrible as he did on the road in Ann Arbor this year. That's wild speculation on your behalf, that goes directly against what Brian Kelly speficially said about why they favored Brandon in that game.

 

[IrishMike409]

Good luck Phil. I really wish you well. Once a Domer, always a Domer. BK, the developer of QBs. LOL!

Get real Toby. “Once a Domer, always a Domer” to a guy who spent 2 years on campus, and then left? But the condescending, smart-ass comment referencing BK? BK has busted his ass getting this program to where it is.

And spare me the key-board tough guy response bragging how you go to every game and you’ve earned the right to say what you want. Heard it from you before, and not buying it.

 

[IrishMike409]

You don't know that at all. Brian Kelly specifically said that ND felt they needed Brandon's elite running ability to beat Michigan in 2018, when asked about Ian Book and what changed between Brandon's time as a starter and their decision to make the switch to Ian.

You don't know that Ian Book would have beat Michigan badly anymore than I would know if I was trying to convince you that he would have play as horrible as he did on the road in Ann Arbor this year. That's wild speculation on your behalf that goes directly against what Brian Kelly speficially said about why they favored Brandon in that game.

BW was damn good that night. Damn good. We needed his skill-set vs that loaded Michigan D.

 

[deadprez3]

Ha, no. Kelly and everyone know now why they game planned wimbush as QB vs UM. The pressure Wimbush was under, book would have looked worse than clemson.

I didn't say it, you didn't say it, kelly said it. The only way ND was winning the game was with wimbush at QB, he had the characteristics needed to beat UM, and he did.

So very true.

Say what you will about Wimbush but ND does not win that game without him at QB.

The only ball movement in that game was 50/50 balls and Wimbush making plays with his feet.

As par for the course, the running game was non existent when it was needed.

 

[scubastevefl]

Three pages, this is probably the deepest I’ve ever followed a thread.