I don't really buy the notion that a coach can ruin a QB. Those guys all had issues, you know, throwing the football accurately.
Phil Jurkovec Transferring
- Thread starter IrishInOntario
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I don't really buy the notion that a coach can ruin a QB. Those guys all had issues, you know, throwing the football accurately.
Alabama managed 16 points against that same defense a couple of weeks later. Personally, I though BK did a pretty remarkable job getting that team to 12-0 and into the playoff.
Then you are broke. Name a an all-star qb since Kelly took control.
Or a big win? How bout ZERO, ok I'll give him half credit for beating OK.
It all depends on your definition of all star qb? When you talk all-star to me that means did it not only at the college but professional level too. In my lifetime only Joe Montana and Joe Theismann led pro teams all the way to the promise land. They excelled at ND, San Francisco and Washington. Now if your talking winning a lot of games at ND; that's a horse of a different color. Has BK had any very successful quarterbacks at ND? Ole TR himself went 23-8 as the ND starter, Everett Golson 17-6, BW 12-3, and IB 21-3. You can wart hunt all day, but my only concern is how many victories did they direct for ND. Wins are wins-glorious or ugly. History doesn't care how they win; only that they win. Their pro careers are no concern to me. All-Stars to me include John Huarte 9-1, Terry Hanratty 21-4-1, Tommy Clements 29-5, Tony Rice 26-3, Rick Mirer 28-7-1, and of course Theismann 20-3-2, and Montana 20-5.
football doesn't have all-stars - you must be thinking of basketball or baseball...
if you mean All-American, the last ND QB with that honor was Terry Hanratty in 1968...
Book: Quinn did win the Maxwell award, but Book compares favorably to what he did - and Book was around a top 500 player, Quinn a top 100...
Kizer was 10-14 at his position, and compares favorably to Jimmy Clausen, the #1 overall player in his class, drafted in the 1st round...
Golson was a low 4 high 3 star, did about as well as could be expected...
Wimbush - highly touted, top 50 player, but couldn't complete 50% of his passes, which was really too bad, because he was basically Lamar Jackson with his legs - if you want to blame Kelly for that, go ahead, but BW is playing WR now, and I wish him great success...
Phil was supposed to be the can't-miss guy, the savior, but he couldn't beat out Book... It's no coincidence that Phil decided to transfer after Book announced his return... I wish him well at BC...
Going back to UC with Tony Pike (HS backup, got Heisman buzz), Kelly has done more with less at QB... If you're gripe is that we don't get the #1 QB on the board, that's true, but Kelly has done a better job than many would like to admit...
From all good sources Phil was gone before Ian decided to return. It was VERY obvious that Phil was not getting any chance to play and that he and Rees had issues. Rees/Book are peas and carrots. I think Rees sees himself in Book as the underdog. Once Phil announced his transfer Book tweets out "and the circle gets smaller", and the Rees pounds the like button on it. Very cheap of a captain and a coach.
consensus - first team...
any way you slice it, Book compares favorably, and better in many cases...
first 3 years;
Quinn: 56% completion, 58 TD, 32 INT, 7.34 YPA, 8336 Yds, 20-16 record, 0-2 in Bowl games
Book: 63.5% completion, 57 TD, 17 INT, 7.8 YPA, 6118 Yds, 21-3 record, 2-1 in bowl games
or if you want to compare Quinn's last 24 starts with Book's first 24 starts;
Book: (760 attempts) 63.4% completion, 55 TD, 16 INT, 5959 YDs, 7.84 YPA , 910 rushing, 8 TD, 7.23% TD 2.1% INT, 21-3 record
Quinn: (890 attempts) 63.2% completion, 67 TD, 13 INT, 7118 YDs, 7.99 YPA, 112 rushing YDs, 6 TD, 7.52% TD 1.4% INT, 18-6 record
Or straight up career;
Book: (788 attempts) 63.5% completion, 57 TD, 17 INT, 7.8 YPA, 6118 Yds, 7.23% TD, 2.15% INT, 1032 rushing YDs, 8 TDs, 21-3 record, 2-1 bowl games, 148.2 passer rating
Quinn: (1602 attempts) 58% completion, 95 TD, 39 INT, 7.3 YPA, 11762 YDS, 5.93% TD, 2.43% INT, 183 rushing yards, 6 TDs, 30-19 record, 0-3 bowl games, 134.4 passer rating
I'm not knocking BQ - an all-time ND great - but, he could have used a decent defense... I just don't think (some) people are giving Book the credit that he deserves, mostly because to give him credit would be to give Kelly credit, and that doesn't fit the agenda...
It has nothing to do with Kelly. Ian has proved nothing yet. There's a reason Ian is ranked 35th college QB by PFF. There's a reason Book has gotten no love from the NFL in his senior year. There's a reason he's got no love from the top 25 Heisman polls. Ian is ranked in the 80's when facing P5 teams. Sorry, unless Ian has some miracle turn around in 2020 he's no Brady Quinn. Pumping up stats against very weak competition does not make you good.
"Book has a limited arm and serious pocket-presence issues. We charged him with 11 sacks and 38 pressures on his own this year after charging him with 18 sacks in 2018. Combine that with a limited arm and you have a long shot in the pros".
-Pro Football Focus
"The two criteria I was looking at when making a choice as to where to go was really about the coaches," explained Jurkovec. "The coaches that were going to believe in me and develop me. I think I've got a lot of room to grow and that's what I found with Coach Hafley and Coach Cignetti."
Which is pretty disappointing. I know that Phil grew up a die hard ND fan and forgone a lot of offers from elite teams. It was beyond obvious after the Michigan game, when Long was basically neutered, the ND staff (Rees) was not going to play him or give him time to develop. I don't think they left him any other choice but to transfer. It's no secret, I'm not a Rees fan, but not to the point I wish ND to fail. Rees came after Phil so he didn't recruit him, and does not play Rees' style. So rather then tailoring the offense to Phil's strengths better to push him out. There's a maturity thing that Rees still needs to have and he made that obvious by liking Ian's tweet.
Quinn is 6'4", Book is (maybe) 6'0"... this is not about pro prospects (turns out Quinn didn't have a pro arm either) - pro game is different...
As far as sacks go, ND was top 10 in QB sack % this year - Book gets sacked about every 22 attempts, Quinn about every 17 (only had last 3 years of data on him, no frosh stats for sacks)... to put that in perspective, Joe Burrow got sacked every 15 attempts this year, Justin Fields every 11!
Numbers don't bear out what you're saying about P5 competition;
vs. ACC
Quinn -110.1 QBR, Book 130.5
vs. Big 10
Quinn 133.9, Book 126.9
vs Big 12
Book 157.3, Quinn no games
vs. PAC12
Quinn 135.3, Book 149.3
vs. SEC
Quinn 120.8, Book 136.9
You can spew all the stats you want. It's still apples and oranges. Different time, different schedules, different coaches, etc etc etc. Pretty simple, either Book will make the leap or he won't. So far he's not proven to be effective in the big games. Hopefully he'll make a lot of people eat their words including me.
