OT: Please someone explain the dichotomy with these comments

[Patrirish]

How would a person who suffers from mental health problems kill 9 people in 30 seconds without the use of a high powered weapon?

Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with the Boston Marathon killings.

Have someone explain that too you.

You might want to ask Timothy McVeigh who killed 168 people and wounded 680 others in 1 second.

A pistol with a 20 round clip could easily kill 9 people in 30 seconds.

It all depends upon crowd density

 

[ivan brunetti]

Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with the Boston Marathon killings.

Have someone explain that too you.

You might want to ask Timothy McVeigh who killed 168 people and wounded 680 others in 1 second.

A pistol with a 20 round clip could easily kill 9 people in 30 seconds.

It all depends upon crowd density

Ban the 20 round clip then. Added to the list.

 

[Silent Banjo]

Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with the Boston Marathon killings.

Have someone explain that too you.

You might want to ask Timothy McVeigh who killed 168 people and wounded 680 others in 1 second.

A pistol with a 20 round clip could easily kill 9 people in 30 seconds.

It all depends upon crowd density

Good. You're coming around. You now see the correlation between weapons and carnage. Glad that we agree that high powered assault rifles, pistols with 20 round clips, bombs, and explosive materiel should be banned and don't fall under the heading of "the right to bear arms."

 

[NDEwing18]

I keep forgetting that criminals/bad guys follow laws

Why have any laws then?

 

[Patrirish]

Ban the 20 round clip then. Added to the list.

You’re so incredibly obtuse that it’s frightening.

Ban the 20 round clip ?

Okay, then they’ll carry 10 15 round clips or 10 10 round clips.

Do you really believe that criminals and mentally ill people are going to obey the law ?

Did you not learn anything from the BOA shootings ?

 

[Silent Banjo]

When Uruguay is politily saying the US is a shithole country you know we gotta fix somethings.

View embedded media

I visited Uruguay this past January and it's a spectacular country. By every measure of quality of life, it ranks high. I can see why it might have that negative regard for the U.S. Montevideo was a wonderfully maintained big city that had some grungy parts, but it was mostly very clean and crime free, with some fascinating and well maintained architecture. The shot above is of Punta del Este, often called the Monaco of the South, Pearl of the Atlantic, and Hampton's of South America. It makes San Diego look like Gary. If I ever have to get into a witness protection program, it would be my requested destination.

 

[ivan brunetti]

You’re so incredibly obtuse that it’s frightening.

Ban the 20 round clip ?

Okay, then they’ll carry 10 15 round clips or 10 10 round clips.

Do you really believe that criminals and mentally ill people are going to obey the law ?

Did you not learn anything from the BOA shootings ?

Then ban the 15 & 10 round clips as well. Even the most timid don't need that for "defense". Added to the list.

 

[Patrirish]

Good. You're coming around. You now see the correlation between weapons and carnage. Glad that we agree that high powered assault rifles, pistols with 20 round clips, bombs, and explosive materiel should be banned and don't fall under the heading of "the right to bear arms."

You can’t be that dumb ....... can you ?

So you think that McVeigh walked into an Army-Navy surplus store and bought a 500 pound bomb ?

Or that the Boston Marathon killers bought grenades from that same store ?

How about gasoline, one of the most powerful explosives readily available, should we ban gasoline too ?

I guess, if you support AOC, the answer is “yes”

Firearms, with exceptions aren’t banned under “the right to bear arms”

Do you really believe that banning firearms will prevent criminals from owning and using them ?

 

[Silent Banjo]

You can’t be that dumb ....... can you ?

So you think that McVeigh walked into an Army-Navy surplus store and bought a 500 pound bomb ?

Or that the Boston Marathon killers bought grenades from that same store ?

How about gasoline, one of the most powerful explosives readily available, should we ban gasoline too ?

I guess, if you support AOC, the answer is “yes”

Firearms, with exceptions aren’t banned under “the right to bear arms”

Do you really believe that banning firearms will prevent criminals from owning and using them ?

Every possible effort should be conducted to control the free flow of weapons. What part of "well regulated" in the Second Amendment don't you understand?

 

[Patrirish]

Then ban the 15 & 10 round clips as well. Even the most timid don't need that for "defense". Added to the list.

You don’t get it,

First, you’re wrong about the number of rounds needed for defense.

Let’s take the recent shootings and pretend that you were there and armed with a sidearm with a 6 round clip. You fire all 6 rounds at the shooter who is only 75 feet away, and you miss with all 6 rounds.
Now what ? Do you wave a white handkerchief ? You’re dead !
So much for your theory.

Second, even if you limit clips to 8 or 6 rounds, they’ll just carry more clips.

Do you really believe that criminals and mentally ill people are going to abide by the law ?

 

[johnnyh]

Here is the thing. I am all for the right to bear arms and for people to have pistols and hunting rifles. What I am not for is the normal person to be able to purchase an AR 15 assault rifle. A military grade weapon. Or, a AK 47 assault rifle. Another military grade weapon. Or any other high powered weapon really for that matter. Someone needs to really explain to me why anyone needs these things except people in law enforcement.

And, I completely understand the other side of the argument and also agree with it. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. And, people who are doing the mass murders are sick and insane. No doubt.

Here's the thing, for me anyways. I completely agree and understand that the people doing these acts are gonna get these types of weapons if they are legal or illegal. People saying otherwise are not being truthful. What I think banning these weapons would do is, make these sick ****s jobs a bit harder for them. As is, we are handing them the keys to the candy store. Maybe if we make it harder, it could prevent one or two of these things from happening. I really don't know the answer.

 

[Patrirish]

Every possible effort should be conducted to control the free flow of weapons. What part of "well regulated" in the Second Amendment don't you understand?

Don’t take this personally, but you’re a moron.

What makes you think that there’s a free flow of weapons ?

Try to get a gun in NYC or N.J., it’s very difficult, UNLESS you’re a criminal

Do you really believe that criminals and mentally ill people are going to abide by regulations.

It’s not the weapons, it’s the criminal or mentally ill person who has to be dealt with.

Ban all guns and you could still make a Molotov Cocktail and kill 10, 20, 50 or more people in a short time.

Mental illness has been mostly ignored in this country which is unfortunate for those stricken and their families

 

[Patrirish]

Here is the thing. I am all for the right to bear arms and for people to have pistols and hunting rifles. What I am not for is the normal person to be able to purchase an AR 15 assault rifle. A military grade weapon. Or, a AK 47 assault rifle. Another military grade weapon. Or any other high powered weapon really for that matter. Someone needs to really explain to me why anyone needs these things except people in law enforcement.

And, I completely understand the other side of the argument and also agree with it. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. And, people who are doing the mass murders are sick and insane. No doubt.

Here's the thing, for me anyways. I completely agree and understand that the people doing these acts are gonna get these types of weapons if they are legal or illegal. People saying otherwise are not being truthful. What I think banning these weapons would do is, make these sick ****s jobs a bit harder for them. As is, we are handing them the keys to the candy store. Maybe if we make it harder, it could prevent one or two of these things from happening. I really don't know the answer.

In close quarters, in crowded areas, a shotgun is probably more deadly than an AR-15 or AK-47, but I understand what you’re saying.

You probably weren’t around when Gary Whitman stabbed his mother and his wife to death and the next day shot and killed 14 people and wounded 31 more without the use of a military grade weapon.
No AR-15, no AK-47.

He was mentally ill and i’m fairly certain that his symptoms manifested themselves to others before he committed his horrible acts.

Criminals typically aren’t mass killers, terrorists and the mentally ill are the usual culprits.

But for as long as I can remember detecting, diagnosing and treating the mentally ill has been taboo.

Something significant needs to be done to help those stricken with a terrible illness.

 

[Silent Banjo]

Don’t take this personally, but you’re a moron.

What makes you think that there’s a free flow of weapons ?

Try to get a gun in NYC or N.J., it’s very difficult, UNLESS you’re a criminal

Do you really believe that criminals and mentally ill people are going to abide by regulations.

It’s not the weapons, it’s the criminal or mentally ill person who has to be dealt with.

Ban all guns and you could still make a Molotov Cocktail and kill 10, 20, 50 or more people in a short time.

Mental illness has been mostly ignored in this country which is unfortunate for those stricken and their families

No I don't take it personally, if the criticism came from someone with a whit of self awareness or intelligence, I might be offended, but that wouldn't include you.

As we've found out, so many of the people getting guns weren't criminals until they perpetrated the crime, and some of these guys were able to stockpile their own industrial complex.

The mentally ill probably won't abide by regulations, which makes creating strict regulations and enforcing tight security all the more necessary.

Also, you stupidly making addressing mental illness and gun control and either/or proposition. They are both sensible solutions.

Stop aping the Orangutan (love that simian symmetry) and talk sense.

 

[Silent Banjo]

You probably weren’t around when Gary Whitman stabbed his mother and his wife to death and the next day shot and killed 14 people and wounded 31 more without the use of a military grade weapon.
No AR-15, no AK-47..

His name was Charles Whitman, ace. You were probably too busy laughing at Borscht Belt comedians to focus.

 

[Patrirish]

No I don't take it personally, if the criticism came from someone with a whit of self awareness or intelligence, I might be offended, but that wouldn't include you.

As we've found out, so many of the people getting guns weren't criminals until they perpetrated the crime, and some of these guys were able to stockpile their own industrial complex.

The mentally ill probably won't abide by regulations, which makes creating strict regulations and enforcing tight security all the more necessary.

Also, you stupidly making addressing mental illness and gun control and either/or proposition. They are both sensible solutions.

Stop aping the Orangutan (love that simian symmetry) and talk sense.

You’re wrong, and that’s not true.

Perhaps, like the Boston Marathon killings you’re also unfamiliar with the Parkland shooter’s history.

Try being informed, BEFORE you post

Many had yet to commit a criminal act but the telltale signs of mental illness had already manifested themselves.

Did you learn nothing from the CT and FL school shootings.

You can have all of the regulations you want and under today’s culture, mentally ill people will still be able to obtain guns, legally.

How has regulating alcohol stopped DWI’s resulting in fatalities.

It’s not the car, it’s not the gun, it’s the aberrant individual and Mental Illness is the primary culprit in mass shootings

 

[Patrirish]

His name was Charles Whitman, ace. You were probably too busy laughing at Borscht Belt comedians to focus.

That’s it, a first name difference, that’s your pathetic reply ?

Sorry that my memory slipped a little over the last 53 years.

You probably weren’t born yet when Whitman killed those people

 

[Silent Banjo]

You’re wrong, and that’s not true.

Perhaps, like the Boston Marathon killings you’re also unfamiliar with the Parkland shooter’s history.

Try being informed, BEFORE you post

Many had yet to commit a criminal act but the telltale signs of mental illness had already manifested themselves.

Did you learn nothing from the CT and FL school shootings.

You can have all of the regulations you want and under today’s culture, mentally ill people will still be able to obtain guns, legally.

How has regulating alcohol stopped DWI’s resulting in fatalities.

It’s not the car, it’s not the gun, it’s the aberrant individual and Mental Illness is the primary culprit in mass shootings

All you're doing is aping the Orangutan and making a fool of yourself. It's also funny that you cite the need for mental health care when Trump and his GOP brethren don't address any type of health care.

 

[Silent Banjo]

That’s it, a first name difference, that’s your pathetic reply ?

Sorry that my memory slipped a little over the last 53 years.

You probably weren’t born yet when Whitman killed those people

LOL, it's just funny how you squirm when proven wrong. And don't worry, your problem isn't what you've forgotten but what you can't interpret. For the record, I was alive when Whitman went on his rampage. Even know the Kinky Friedman song "Rumor of a Tumor."

 

[Patrirish]

No I don't take it personally, if the criticism came from someone with a whit of self awareness or intelligence, I might be offended, but that wouldn't include you.

As we've found out, so many of the people getting guns weren't criminals until they perpetrated the crime, and some of these guys were able to stockpile their own industrial complex.

The mentally ill probably won't abide by regulations, which makes creating strict regulations and enforcing tight security all the more necessary.

Also, you stupidly making addressing mental illness and gun control and either/or proposition. They are both sensible solutions.

Stop aping the Orangutan (love that simian symmetry) and talk sense.

You don’t have a clue when it comes to the regulations presently in force in NYC and NJ. when it comes to obtaining a firearm. You’ll just go to Google and pretend that you’re familiar with the process.

Here’s a simple question for you.

Tell us exactly HOW you would regulate the legal purchase of a firearm.

Tell us how you would prevent a mentally I’ll individual with no prior documented evidence of mental illness, from obtain a firearm.

Go ahead genius, present your regulations !

 

[twalsh]

I visited Uruguay this past January and it's a spectacular country. By every measure of quality of life, it ranks high. I can see why it might have that negative regard for the U.S. Montevideo was a wonderfully maintained big city that had some grungy parts, but it was mostly very clean and crime free, with some fascinating and well maintained architecture. The shot above is of Punta del Este, often called the Monaco of the South, Pearl of the Atlantic, and Hampton's of South America. It makes San Diego look like Gary. If I ever have to get into a witness protection program, it would be my requested destination.

Perhaps Rio could learn some lessons from Montevideo. What makes Uruguay's economy tick?

 

[Silent Banjo]

You don’t have a clue when it comes to the regulations presently in force in NYC and NJ. when it comes to obtaining a firearm. You’ll just go to Google and pretend that you’re familiar with the process.

Here’s a simple question for you.

Tell us exactly HOW you would regulate the legal purchase of a firearm.

Tell us how you would prevent a mentally I’ll individual with no prior documented evidence of mental illness, from obtain a firearm.

Go ahead genius, present your regulations !

Ridiculous argument to advance by you. Carrying out that task requires all kinds of efforts with all kinds of statistics and case studies, oddly nothing I have at my fingertips. Of course, what you fail to see is the simple cause and effect of guns killing people, which is much easier to gauge (pun intended) than whether people are mentally ill. Similarly, I wouldn't ask you how you'd undertake a plan of aggressive mental health care initiatives to solve these crimes, because I know that's stratospheres above your pay-grade.

 

[Silent Banjo]

Perhaps Rio could learn some lessons from Montevideo. What makes Uruguay's economy tick?

Having only around 4 million people is a start.

 

[twalsh]

Having only around 4 million people is a start.

For sure. 2.5 million people less than metro Atlanta. Pretty hard to make any comparisons to the US with a country that small.

 

[Silent Banjo]

For sure. 2.5 million people less than metro Atlanta. Pretty hard to make any comparisons to the US with a country that small.

I wasn't making any comparisons, although since you brought that up, the U.S. has a vastly greater land surface and abounds in natural resources.

 

[TDIrish27]

Here's a simple suggestion------Congress passes a National Law.

Commit a felony with a firearm minimum 5 year sentence no parole.

Any idea which Party would be on board with that ?

 

[ivan brunetti]

Here's a simple suggestion------Congress passes a National Law.

Commit a felony with a firearm minimum 5 year sentence no parole.

Any idea which Party would be on board with that ?

Question: would that apply as well to cops who shoot unarmed people?

 

[Silent Banjo]

Here's a simple suggestion------Congress passes a National Law.

Commit a felony with a firearm minimum 5 year sentence no parole.

Any idea which Party would be on board with that ?

The same party that wouldn't allocate proper funding for prison overcrowding or provide mental health care for when these prisoners get released?

 

[rgc7]

As I stated earlier, I do not own a weapon, so I have no personal prejudice for or against gun ownership.
I do , however, know that most of my neighbors do own guns, rifles, shots guns of all types, and go to firing
ranges to practice both firing their weapons and practicing gun safety.
The gun owners that I know are responsible people and obey our laws.
As stated previously the problem is mental illness, but going much further, I have have lived through
Almost 9 generations, and have seen the steady decline of our society. Starting with stable traditional
Families that not only taught moral and religious values but also discipline, goal setting, personal responsibilities, and respect for authority and laws.
The Religious leaders reinforced the family values, the sacredness of Marriage between a man and women. Sin was sin, immorality was immorality.
The schools were an extension of the home and teachers had the same values.
I used to love the movies. Comedy was funny , crime and mystery movies had good plots and very little
Actual violence. Love stories had no nudity, perversity, etc. Even war moves had very limited violence
and not very graphic at that ! In short, movies were entertaining, interesting, and uplifting with few exceptions.
College Education was a study of the great classical writers,economists, and philosophers ,
A study of world and US history , and , of course , a sound foundation of one’s major area of study.
Only about 20 % went to college. It was not a necessity of life.
Today in the name of toleration we accept all types of perverse and radical life styles.
Everyone has their faces in their iPads, and the young people barely converse anymore.
Churches have gone progressive and the the younger generation does not attend.
Education is a complete BRAINWASH , and colleges are-raking in the money. The Fed and the taxpayers
Pay, and the students and parents get extorted.
I can not speak for other religions, but Catholic religious education is being replaced with something
Called “ Social Justice “ whatever that may be.
Violent Perverse, movies, video games, broken homes, crazy web sites, feed the weak and sick minds
of people on the edge.
The only answer that the politicos come up with is gun control ! The problems go much deeper
to a decaying society were the real Problem lies, and the politicians without backbones
Add to the problem by demagogic , self serving speeches.

 

[NDEwing18]

As I stated earlier, I do not own a weapon, so I have no personal prejudice for or against gun ownership.
I do , however, know that most of my neighbors do own guns, rifles, shots guns of all types, and go to firing
ranges to practice both firing their weapons and practicing gun safety.
The gun owners that I know are responsible people and obey our laws.
As stated previously the problem is mental illness, but going much further, I have have lived through
Almost 9 generations, and have seen the steady decline of our society. Starting with stable traditional
Families that not only taught moral and religious values but also discipline, goal setting, personal responsibilities, and respect for authority and laws.
The Religious leaders reinforced the family values, the sacredness of Marriage between a man and women. Sin was sin, immorality was immorality.
The schools were an extension of the home and teachers had the same values.
I used to love the movies. Comedy was funny , crime and mystery movies had good plots and very little
Actual violence. Love stories had no nudity, perversity, etc. Even war moves had very limited violence
and not very graphic at that ! In short, movies were entertaining, interesting, and uplifting with few exceptions.
College Education was a study of the great classical writers,economists, and philosophers ,
A study of world and US history , and , of course , a sound foundation of one’s major area of study.
Only about 20 % went to college. It was not a necessity of life.
Today in the name of toleration we accept all types of perverse and radical life styles.
Everyone has their faces in their iPads, and the young people barely converse anymore.
Churches have gone progressive and the the younger generation does not attend.
Education is a complete BRAINWASH , and colleges are-raking in the money. The Fed and the taxpayers
Pay, and the students and parents get extorted.
I can not speak for other religions, but Catholic religious education is being replaced with something
Called “ Social Justice “ whatever that may be.
Violent Perverse, movies, video games, broken homes, crazy web sites, feed the weak and sick minds
of people on the edge.
The only answer that the politicos come up with is gun control ! The problems go much deeper
to a decaying society were the real Problem lies, and the politicians without backbones
Add to the problem by demagogic , self serving speeches.

Not everyone thinks that society has declined since the time period you talked about. Loving v. Virginia is only 50 years old.

 

[chitown sot]

I visited Uruguay this past January and it's a spectacular country. By every measure of quality of life, it ranks high. I can see why it might have that negative regard for the U.S. Montevideo was a wonderfully maintained big city that had some grungy parts, but it was mostly very clean and crime free, with some fascinating and well maintained architecture. The shot above is of Punta del Este, often called the Monaco of the South, Pearl of the Atlantic, and Hampton's of South America. It makes San Diego look like Gary. If I ever have to get into a witness protection program, it would be my requested destination.

Please move there since its so great. one less left wing nut job to deal with

 

[rgc7]

Not everyone thinks that society has declined since the time period you talked about. Loving v. Virginia is only 50 years old.

 

[rgc7]

Of Course everyone does not agree with me, nor did I expect everyone to agree. However, I have seen and
Lived through those periods of time , and I have witnessed the steady decline .
Whether “ Everyone “ or. “Someone “ disagrees with me makes no difference ! Facts are facts , mass murders are facts, disrespect for law and order are facts, lack of patriotism are fact. The decline of
Moral values are facts. The decline of our inner cities are facts. The breakup of the tradition families,
Especially in our inner cities, are facts. Abortion on demand are facts. Homeless people with mental illnesses
Living on the streets in filth are fact.,
You can deny that these problems exist, but they are very evident to me !

 

[TDIrish27]

The same party that wouldn't allocate proper funding for prison overcrowding or provide mental health care for when these prisoners get released?

Any idea why your Party wouldn't go for it ?

Let's start with the CBC and go from there.

 

[Patrirish]

Silent Banjo,

We’re waiting for your plan on how to regulate the sale of firearms, especially to those mentally I’ll individuals who have no prior record of mental illness.

You’ve responded to other posts and complained about prison overcrowding and prison healthcare in a diversionary ploy, but have yet to put forth your solutions.

Go ahead genius, tell us how you would write those regulations.

Here’s your chance to offer a viable solution versus being a political hack.

 

[Silent Banjo]

Please move there since its so great. one less left wing nut job to deal with

Nah, I think Chicago has much more to offer.

 

[Silent Banjo]

Any idea why your Party wouldn't go for it ?

Let's start with the CBC and go from there.

I don't think either party would go for it. It's a dumb idea.

 

[Patrirish]

Question: would that apply as well to cops who shoot unarmed people?

Depends on the circumstances.

Is the unarmed man about to push his ex-wife off of a bridge ?

Is the unarmed man a convicted pedophile trying to kidnap a 6 year old girl ?

Context and circumstances would dictate

What’s the rate of incidence of that versus the rate of incidence of crimes being committed with guns ?

 

[Patrirish]

I don't think either party would go for it. It's a dumb idea.

So dumb that the State of Massachusetts enacted that legislation years ago.

Mandatory sentencing.

Commit a felony with a firearm and off to jail you go.

What’s “dumb” about that ?

 

[Silent Banjo]

Silent Banjo,

We’re waiting for your plan on how to regulate the sale of firearms, especially to those mentally I’ll individuals who have no prior record of mental illness.

You’ve responded to other posts and complained about prison overcrowding and prison healthcare in a diversionary ploy, but have yet to put forth your solutions.

Go ahead genius, tell us how you would write those regulations.

Here’s your chance to offer a viable solution versus being a political hack.

I already explained that I don't have the data to solve these macro-problems, not that some basic issues can't be identified. You're trumpeting the main concern as mental health, and can't even define it or suggest a remedy.