well Michigan coaches are the village idiots then if there not looking at wanting Ewell because no way do they have the depth on d-line when it comes to big time studs like bama and ohio st since they are still rebuilding recruiting wise
Notre Dame 2017 Recruiting Class 3.0
- Thread starter IrishInOntario
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Michigan is not recruiting at the level of tOSU and Bama but is right behind it at a tier that with the right chemistry, having a higher % of players work out, no position holes/roster balance, etc. you can have years where you are just as good and with some breaks win it all...it is a playoff level.
You guys don't seem to understand how many elite kids Michigan is quite strong with right now. We of course won't land them all but we are light years ahead of where we were this time last year and I will be surprised if this class is not better than last year's...and last year was a top 5 class (playoff caliber class).
It isn't my favorite part of Harbaugh's strategy but there are kids currently on our commit list who will be replaced by guys he wants more. Which brings us to guys like Ewell...JH and crew are being a little bit more deliberate this year letting kids know where they stand in the pecking order. Ewell would not be gaurenteed a spot if he committed...that is different than passing on a kid but for some kids it sends a pretty clear message of what they should do.
Yes Michigan is still rebuilding depth but how many DTs do you think we can bring in each year? Right now we have two committed...it is July. Last year JH did a good amount of his damage the last month of the cycle including closing on the #1 player in the country...a DL btw.
yes ellobo Michigan is bringing in players on the d-line but there not bringing in a top ten guys like Ewell except for Gary and if you want to start beating ohio st again then just any kind of d-line guys aren't going to get it done unless your bringing in more guys like Gary and guys like Ewell in which ohio st is
Lol.......insiders confirming that their team passed on a player they're not going to be able to land.......classic
Michigan didn't pass, they just stuck out
Sorry buddy
Ummmm...you do know that Michigan got a verbal from Aubrey Solomon...he's the #4 DT (on rivals) in the country and ahead of Ewell...and as mentioned above we are solidly in the mix for the #5 DT (again ahead of Ewell)...we are also solidly in the mix for the #9 DT (one spot behind Ewell but just had a great opening)...the #6 tried to verbal and we actually said no on that one (as did tOSU btw...kid is a year older than the average and both schools saw that)
Maybe you need to catch up...here is Solomon's profile
https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/4521
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UM, is doing very well no doubt, but very well will still get them 2nd place to tOSU. Do you know who finished 2nd last year? most fans have probably forgotten.
I'm not unaware of how well tOSU is doing in recruiting...their class this year (on paper) is going to be legendary. I also know who finished second in the B10 East last year...that would be tOSU. Michigan is not going to out recruit tOSU (on paper) this year. The only team that has a shot of doing that is Bama. However, the goal needs to be getting close enough that other factors like team chemistry, player development, roster balance, injuries, etc. puts us ahead on the field.
If you are talking in the Big10 east, then third. They can't beat MSU either. I don't think UM has finished higher than third in their own division since Urban got to OSU & Dantonio to MSU?
I never quite understand what you say...go play with the rabbits and let the rest of us talk
Come on Perse, I've provided you with facts many of times... You simply like to ignore them because they don't fit your narrative.
Here are Notre Dame's top 10 ranked (composite linemen) for 2016. They range from seniors, down to freshman (as expected). I chose 10 as a number because it represents the max number of DL that a team will play each year unless they suffer an uncanny rash of injuries that puts their depth to the ultimate test.
Notre Dame
Isaac Rochell (SR): 0.9459 composite
Daelin Hayes (FR): 0.9371 composite
Jarron Jones (SR): 0.9365 composite
Andrew Trumbetti (JR): 0.9347 composite
Jerry Tillery (Soph): 0.9293 coomposite
Kahlid Kareem (FR): 0.9207 composite
Jay Hayes (JR): 0.9060 composite
Julian Okwara (FR) 0.8976 composite
Elijah Taylor (SOPH) 0.8945 composite
Daniel Cage (JR): 0.8924 composite
Is this group missing a 5 star Stephon Tuitt type of talent? It would definitely be nice. However, there are less than 10 teams in the country that have more "pure talent" (in terms of rankings coming in) than Notre Dame does, along the DL. Keep in mind that 2 of those teams who lack ND's overall "talent" along the defensive line (Oklahoma and Michigan State) made the playoffs last year, which is the goal for Notre Dame each year, giving them an opportunity to compete for a title.
You and I are in complete agreement that ND is missing those 1-2 top guys that would push this group over the top, but lets not act like ND's talent in the group is severely lacking. It's not Alabama, Florida State or Clemson's group, but consider for a minute that of those 3 teams, Notre Dame was a questionable last second penalty and a missed two point conversion (would have tied) away from beating / potentially beating those teams. in both games, the DL was good enough to win both those games. In both instances, it was ND's offense on the field when the game was inevitably lost in the finals seconds.
The other thing worth mentioning is that ND DL recruiting is trending up! Of the guys that I expect ND to land...
Darnell Ewell: 0.9364 composite
Jerron Cage: 0.9164 composite
PJ Mustipher: 0.9769 composite
Jayson Ademilola: 0.9219 composite
Justin Ademilola: 0.9300 composite
I'm predicting that ND's average composite rating among their top 10 defensive linemen heading forward (2017, 2018, 2019) is a full 2-3 percentage points higher than it is now. It's always going to be the hardest position to recruit at Notre Dame, but I see no reason why they can't have 10 guys on the roster that are ranked 0.9100 or better, with a couple guys hovering in the 95-98 range... That give them a top 8'ish unit in terms of "talent" on an annual basis.... Not bad for the hardest position to recruit on your roster.
Read quicker and you may learn something 
I'm also willing to make a bet with you that our DL will be a strength of the team in 2016... Feel like making that bet?
SDE: Isaac Rochell
2. Jay Hayes
4. John Bonner
NG: Jarron Jones
2. Daniel Cage
DT: Jerry Tillery
2. Isaac Rochell
WDE: Andrew Trumbetti
2. Jay Hayes / Daelin Hayes
I'll go ahead and make the bold prediction that those 8 guys (with Khalid Kareem and Micah-Dew Treadway as the wildcard) will be a better unit than you think. I think they'll be suffocating against the run at times an we'll see an improved pass rush off the edge as well. Very excited to see this pass rush package...
DE: Andrew Trumbetti
DT: Isaac Rochell
DT: Jay Hayes
DE: Daelin Hayes
LB: Nyles Morgan
LB: James Onwualu
Sam / Nickel: Drue Tranquil
CB: Cole Luke
FS: Max Redfield
SS: Devin Studstill
CB: Nick Watkins / Shaun Crawford
Love the athleticism and blitzing options out of that "Big Nickel" look.
I'm also willing to make a bet with you that our DL will be a strength of the team in 2016... Feel like making that bet?
SDE: Isaac Rochell
2. Jay Hayes
4. John Bonner
NG: Jarron Jones
2. Daniel Cage
DT: Jerry Tillery
2. Isaac Rochell
WDE: Andrew Trumbetti
2. Jay Hayes / Daelin Hayes
I'll go ahead and make the bold prediction that those 8 guys (with Khalid Kareem and Micah-Dew Treadway as the wildcard) will be a better unit than you think. I think they'll be suffocating against the run at times an we'll see an improved pass rush off the edge as well. Very excited to see this pass rush package...
DE: Andrew Trumbetti
DT: Isaac Rochell
DT: Jay Hayes
DE: Daelin Hayes
LB: Nyles Morgan
LB: James Onwualu
Sam / Nickel: Drue Tranquil
CB: Cole Luke
FS: Max Redfield
SS: Devin Studstill
CB: Nick Watkins / Shaun Crawford
Love the athleticism and blitzing options out of that "Big Nickel" look.
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Bodizephax
I've posted how many times?
Read quicker and you may learn something
I'm also willing to make a bet with you that our DL will be a strength of the team in 2016... Feel like making that bet?
SDE: Isaac Rochell
2. Jay Hayes
4. John Bonner
NG: Jarron Jones
2. Daniel Cage
DT: Jerry Tillery
2. Isaac Rochell
WDE: Andrew Trumbetti
2. Jay Hayes / Daelin Hayes
I'll go ahead and make the bold prediction that those 8 guys (with Khalid Kareem and Micah-Dew Treadway as the wildcard) will be a better unit than you think. I think they'll be suffocating against the run at times an we'll see an improved pass rush off the edge as well. Very excited to see this pass rush package...
DE: Andrew Trumbetti
DT: Isaac Rochell
DT: Jay Hayes
DE: Daelin Hayes
LB: Nyles Morgan
LB: James Onwualu
Sam / Nickel: Drue Tranquil
CB: Cole Luke
FS: Max Redfield
SS: Devin Studstill
CB: Nick Watkins / Shaun Crawford
Love the athleticism and blitzing options out of that "Big Nickel" look.
The 2016 Irish Dline may be their best in a long time. You just can't beat all the experience and college strength training that comes from being a upperclassman (Especially on the Dline). They were all very sought after as highschool recruits, also, and the depth is amazing.
I can't believe there is so much crying about The Irish not being able to recruit or develop Dlineman. This year should open some eyes.
you read so well? you regurgitate stats that neglect the original question or issue.
You list players who are not on campus now or even for 2+ years
You listed players who have never been starters and have had limited P T
You fail to recognize that a key DL is coming off major injury
and
you have not identified the player that will have DC's game planning to stop 'him' or it will be a long day! If there is such a player, as yet he has not distinguished himself as such. Who is the "impact" player that will make all other pkayers better?
you like lists?
make a list of all the DL from Bama, tOSU, FSU, LSU, Clemson, UGA, SU, Okla, UM, MSU,USC,UCLA
and then arrange them in order that you would pick them for your team; based on what we know at present (that is key, because my contention is your premise is lame due to the lack of actual evidence. Hopefully that will keep you busy for awhile. (only those actually ON the teams)
Also take note, for whatever it's significance, that when Bama takes a 5.7-5.8 guy he is usually a huge huge guy; they get the elite players that allow for that kind of prospecting to locate the potentially hidden star.
That is enough for now, I want to avoid the risk of catching what you have; diarrhea of the keyboard. And my post is just to project 'conservatism', not edify myself.
(I dislike this kind of debate because I will not knock individual players on the team, but only discuss a position group as a whole; what as a group they have and do not have)
You list players who are not on campus now or even for 2+ years
You listed players who have never been starters and have had limited P T
You fail to recognize that a key DL is coming off major injury
and
you have not identified the player that will have DC's game planning to stop 'him' or it will be a long day! If there is such a player, as yet he has not distinguished himself as such. Who is the "impact" player that will make all other pkayers better?
you like lists?
make a list of all the DL from Bama, tOSU, FSU, LSU, Clemson, UGA, SU, Okla, UM, MSU,USC,UCLA
and then arrange them in order that you would pick them for your team; based on what we know at present (that is key, because my contention is your premise is lame due to the lack of actual evidence. Hopefully that will keep you busy for awhile. (only those actually ON the teams)
Also take note, for whatever it's significance, that when Bama takes a 5.7-5.8 guy he is usually a huge huge guy; they get the elite players that allow for that kind of prospecting to locate the potentially hidden star.
That is enough for now, I want to avoid the risk of catching what you have; diarrhea of the keyboard. And my post is just to project 'conservatism', not edify myself.
(I dislike this kind of debate because I will not knock individual players on the team, but only discuss a position group as a whole; what as a group they have and do not have)
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I agree and that excellent reply exactly states the hope that UM has; it is also pretty much describes the hopes of ND and like contenders.
(also a player who is projected like Gary is can be a great equaluzer; those who have seen him think he is very special and considering how disruptive a special interior lineman can be (Suh, Fairly) UM can have a very formidable D for 2-3 years at least. D is a Harbaugh thing!)
Let me break it down for you nice & slow like we used to do at the Academy in Colorado Springs for the plebes.
You, Michigan, are worried about OSU. Yet you can't beat MSU. So instead of worrying about what OSU, ND etc are doing, you should worry about MSU.
Clear that up for you?
P.S. The rabbits are sharper than you.
How pathetic are these UM fans spending time on an ND message board? Get a hobby.
Go bag groceries.
You caught something 26,000 posts ago..unbelievable. Please stop, your posts are flat out awful... and have been repetitive garbage 26 thousand times over.
Silly me, I come to this post hoping to learn about ND recruiting prospects and much of it is devoted to what Michigan is doing and then IIO trying to educate Pers. First of all, I don't care how Michigan recruits other than in head-to-head battles with the Irish. How they are fairing in comparison to OSU and/or MSU is irrelevant to me. As to IIO and Pers, IIO you should know by now that you will never convince Pers that the sun is going to shine someday and that the Irish will be very good to great. He is a pessimistic old dog who rarely has a post that is over any interest or benefit to this Board. Keep up the good work with your analysis IIO but ignore Pers (like so many of the rest of us do).
loy has said this week that he thinks our irish flip echols because of the relationships he developed at irish invasion with other recruits and fellow irish players. echols said that ucla,nd,michigan,usc and Arizona are the schools he likes but ucla,usc and nd the basically the ones standing out for him
Perse,
I just want to point out (and I'll keep it short, I promise) for those people who may read this thread and not understand the difference between ND's defense and Alabama's... Alabama runs a 3-4 defense as their base, with 3 down linemen, much like ND ran under Diaco. ND runs a 4-3 defense, with 4 down linemen as their base... Of course Alabama recruits biggers guys, because they need 290+lb ends that game anchor, much like when ND has Tuitt, Nix and KLM, the best DL ND's seen in a long, long time... Different players for a different defense, however. ND will be smaller than Alabama at each DL position. Not because ND can't recruit big guys, but because their scheme calls for a more agile player at each spot.
I just want to point out (and I'll keep it short, I promise) for those people who may read this thread and not understand the difference between ND's defense and Alabama's... Alabama runs a 3-4 defense as their base, with 3 down linemen, much like ND ran under Diaco. ND runs a 4-3 defense, with 4 down linemen as their base... Of course Alabama recruits biggers guys, because they need 290+lb ends that game anchor, much like when ND has Tuitt, Nix and KLM, the best DL ND's seen in a long, long time... Different players for a different defense, however. ND will be smaller than Alabama at each DL position. Not because ND can't recruit big guys, but because their scheme calls for a more agile player at each spot.
IIO....pls don't keep it short. I think most of us thoroughly enjoy your assessments and appreciate the level of detail and level of effort.
Perseverare is right about one thing ,Alabama competes for the national championship every year and they get top talent every year, every year . Alabama recruits speed ,size on defense .
Another point ,yes we lost to Clemson on a failed 2 point conversion early in the season , but Clemson was running on all cylinders in the January championship game frustrating Alabama's defense .No team in the country would have beaten Clemson the way they were playing . Yet ,I believe if Alabama did not have the athletes it had, it would have a different result .
Another point ,yes we lost to Clemson on a failed 2 point conversion early in the season , but Clemson was running on all cylinders in the January championship game frustrating Alabama's defense .No team in the country would have beaten Clemson the way they were playing . Yet ,I believe if Alabama did not have the athletes it had, it would have a different result .
IZO, not sure how you separate the athlete from the coaching? Yes, Alabama has exceptional talent and depth, but they are also well coached. They had to be both to beat a Clemson team that played an exceptional game. If our defensive scheme and defensive talent finally mesh, I think ND is in that conversation.
On offense ,Kiffin called 2 plays late in the game that made a difference. . That run by Henry when the Clemson defensive player had a chance and didn't make the play and there was the pass by Coker . Yes, they have great coaching but the Alabama players were the difference . Saban is a great coach , but the talented players came through .
They don't have to confirm anything, Michigan was hard after Ewell before they got a surprise commitment out of Aubrey Soloman, a top 100 DT from Georgia. They have one spot left for a DT in the class and are focusing on Jay Tufele from UT and Greg Rogers from NV, both of whom are more NT types, where as Ewell is more of a 3 tech DT. It's not a slight on Ewell's talent, but it is the truth that Michigan doesn't really have room in the class for him at the moment.
That moved us up to 5th in the composite class rankings. And a solid interior DT.
A good week of recruiting. Holmes, Hainsey & Ewell. All three guys that impressed at camps so much all the big boys wanted them. (Including the two teams in the title game, Bama & Clemson).
Impressive knowledge, do you have a crystal ball on 247 that we can all follow, or so you just keep it in the basement?
Incredibly tough to identify talent a few years out. And I base on that on my own experiences.
Three girl from my Senior class:
Captain of the cheerleaders, gorgeous, 5 star recruit - when I came home four years later after graduating, she was still a 5 Star recruit!
Most popular girl in my senior class of 800 plus people - four years later she had two kids, a lot of miles on her and would be described as not living up to her potential.
Anonymous girl from my homeroom - say next to her for three years and never paid her any mind. Ran into her at the five year class reunion and she had BLOSSOMED. Clearly missed the boat on not being nicer to her when we were in HS.
So, some five stars get drafted, others - maybe not so much, and then there is the 2 star that turns into JJ Watt. We would all like to have 5 Stars falling ver themselves to come to ND, but Right now Urban and Saban are the guys getting the 5 Stars so we need Coach Kelly to identify the best talent available that is right for ND and develop them.
Three girl from my Senior class:
Captain of the cheerleaders, gorgeous, 5 star recruit - when I came home four years later after graduating, she was still a 5 Star recruit!
Most popular girl in my senior class of 800 plus people - four years later she had two kids, a lot of miles on her and would be described as not living up to her potential.
Anonymous girl from my homeroom - say next to her for three years and never paid her any mind. Ran into her at the five year class reunion and she had BLOSSOMED. Clearly missed the boat on not being nicer to her when we were in HS.
So, some five stars get drafted, others - maybe not so much, and then there is the 2 star that turns into JJ Watt. We would all like to have 5 Stars falling ver themselves to come to ND, but Right now Urban and Saban are the guys getting the 5 Stars so we need Coach Kelly to identify the best talent available that is right for ND and develop them.
I guess you don't follow recruiting very wll mich fan because insiders are saying that tufele is probably heading to OSU in which they say will prabably force cage to look elsewhere and odds are strong that rogers stays close to home and picks a pac 12 school. I get a big laugh out of you Michigan fans because you think your going to get just about any elite kid that harbaugh and staff offer and if you don't get that kid then you all say that harbaugh's staff stopped recruiting him anyways or that you were actually after bigger fish than him
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