ND Playoff Advantage???

[Buguit]

Reading the articles regarding other coaches opinions about ND's independent status .... the theme seems to be that ND has an advantage as an independent ..... I can't believe these guys make six/seven figures ..... that is completely stupid

Anyone with half a brain knows our independent status puts ND at a distinct disadvantage sine the ONLY WAY ND can get in the playoff is undefeated and maybe not even then .... a one loss ND team is out regardless of who they lose to and how .... they could lose to the #1 ranked team on the road by a point and get screwed

It would be much easier to be in a conference and play the majority of cupcakes that exist in them and play one to none tough nonconference games .... the schedule would end up getting easier and they would still have a chance with one loss

A no brainer ..... the levels of stupidity cease to amaze me

 

[BGI User 348]

Uhhh...remember these are football coaches....they do not have to be smart.....

 

[Bodizephax]

But Buguit, what about the Irish basketball fans that like Mike Brey ? Are they not even more stupid?

 

[Toby Smart]

They are making the talking point stick in the minds of the selection committee, the willing sports media, and fans. By saying it enough, the point becomes gospel. They are not stupid. They know what they are saying. The point of doubt has been placed in everyone's mind if it comes to ND and maybe another program. One of their programs. BK needs to counter.

 

[KMeyersNC]

It is politicking. Even before ND enters the picture, one of the conferences will be left out. Last year it was the Big 12, excuse of the day was no single champion and no conference championship game (the other talking point of the day). Actually I think you should throw in very weak OOC schedule for the 2 Big 12 contenders last year.

For ND to make it into the playoffs, 2 conference champions are going to be left on the outside looking in. And it gets even worse if one league is deemed to be super conference (like ESPN was making the case all last year with the SEC West) and deserves 2.

I think Buguit and irish jack have it right. It is going to take a perfect season and some luck to get in, as there are going to conference members on the committee making all the points talked about today as an uneven path to the play off, and do you really deserve to be in it over teams that had to overcome obstacles that ND did not have.

If two conference champions are having down years (2 or more losses) on the year that ND is having a very successful season, then you are in.

 

[MTIrish98]

They haven't figured out that eliminating at-large teams could actually backfire on their precious conferences.

As currently construed, the playoff format could have 2 teams from the same conference -- depending on how the rest of the country shakes out. If they push to keep ND out, they will force only their champions into the mix. As a result, a 9-3 winner of a championship game could hose a 11-1 non-championship game participant -- and the rest of their whole conference with it.

 

[IrishBlooded]

To me there is another side to this.

Every year one of the P5 conferences will be left out. Obviously. So what they are doing is setting the seeds for playoff expansion. To either a 6 or 8 team selection. Which fixes everything, and gives all of them a better chance to get in, even if they aren't one of the final 4.

 

[Buguit]

But Buguit, what about the Irish basketball fans that like Mike Brey ? Are they not even more stupid?

On

But Buguit, what about the Irish basketball fans that like Mike Brey ? Are they not even more stupid?

Only some of them ...

 

[Bodizephax]

On

Only some of them ...

Jacksondomer?

 

[Buguit]

Conference Championships are over rated .... they are not the "end all" ...look at the Big 10 .... it should matter who you play .... who you beat .... and if you're dealing with similar records it should matter who you lost to, where the game was played and by how much .... that makes too much sense apparently

I get that it's politicking .... which only proves my point that it's a pile of crap

Last year proved that the committee will validate any argument "for" that they want which will suit their needs .... and they will do it over and over again .... too much $$$ at stake to be truly legit

And if it's only a matter of playing 13 games .... just say so .... but they won't because that would give ND a clear out of this hose job

ND will continually get screwed

 

[Buguit]

Jacksondomer?

that is too easy

 

[KMeyersNC]

Conference Championships are over rated .... they are not the "end all" ...look at the Big 10 .... it should matter who you play .... who you beat .... and if you're dealing with similar records it should matter who you lost to, where the game was played and by how much .... that makes too much sense apparently

I get that it's politicking .... which only proves my point that it's a pile of crap

Last year proved that the committee will validate any argument "for" that they want which will suit their needs .... and they will do it over and over again .... too much $$$ at stake to be truly legit

And if it's only a matter of playing 13 games .... just say so .... but they won't because that would give ND a clear out of this hose job

ND will continually get screwed

And play off winners are not necessarily more deserving of a championship than the BCS winners were. It is just the current system. Think of how many times a wild card has advanced in the NFL play offs, sometimes the best team does not win.

It is just the current system, and we are only in the first year of this new system so I strongly doubt that in the next few years we are going to see the playoff expanded to 5,6, or 8 teams. (Even before the games were played last year, or the match ups were determined there were plenty calling for an expanded field.)

I agree that the excuses will change with the wind (and to fit their agenda). Same goes for the basketball and baseball tournament. That was one thing I did like about the BCS, the criteria was not perfect, but at least everyone knew the rules. Now football is in the same position as the basketball tournament with out an automatic qualifier. Some years OOC is important, sometimes its schedule, sometimes its just simple W/L.

If ND does get the short end of an argument, you wont get your excuse until you are in a position to make the field.

The thing I do like about this discussion is that out of this mess we might get a set of defined standards to making the play offs. The Big 12 might have to get a championship game (tough game as the last game of the season), maybe schedule rank plays a defined role, ...

Not sure where ND is continually screwed, when was the last time they were cheated out of something in football (in your opinion)? ND has a special setup that the everyone else would like to have, so the politicking will continue... not sure how this equates to getting hosed.

 

[Telx1]

Conference championships may be overrated, but the reality is we have five major conferences and currently four major bowls. That will change and we will see an eight team playoff at some point, and quickly if ND is one of the four this year. Would love to see the five conference champions and the three highest remaining teams in an eight team playoff. ND would then be on equal footing.

 

[Buguit]

And play off winners are not necessarily more deserving of a championship than the BCS winners were. It is just the current system. Think of how many times a wild card has advanced in the NFL play offs, sometimes the best team does not win.

It is just the current system, and we are only in the first year of this new system so I strongly doubt that in the next few years we are going to see the playoff expanded to 5,6, or 8 teams. (Even before the games were played last year, or the match ups were determined there were plenty calling for an expanded field.)

I agree that the excuses will change with the wind (and to fit their agenda). Same goes for the basketball and baseball tournament. That was one thing I did like about the BCS, the criteria was not perfect, but at least everyone knew the rules. Now football is in the same position as the basketball tournament with out an automatic qualifier. Some years OOC is important, sometimes its schedule, sometimes its just simple W/L.

If ND does get the short end of an argument, you wont get your excuse until you are in a position to make the field.

The thing I do like about this discussion is that out of this mess we might get a set of defined standards to making the play offs. The Big 12 might have to get a championship game (tough game as the last game of the season), maybe schedule rank plays a defined role, ...

Not sure where ND is continually screwed, when was the last time they were cheated out of something in football (in your opinion)? ND has a special setup that the everyone else would like to have, so the politicking will continue... not sure how this equates to getting hosed.

When was the last time ND got screwed? ... last year at FSU .... I've seen that replay from almost every angle .... the view from the back of the endzone CLEARLY shows the db jumping in front of the wr .... also very interesting is the cameras showing the official (who has a history of screwing ND) pulling out his flag before the play even developed

Where are they continually screwed? ... they are continually screwed because they don't have their own officials .... too much $$$ at stake and conference officials protect their conference interests .... Kevin White (maybe worst AD of all time) signed a deal with the Big 10 that stated we would have to go with Big 10 Officials every game .... why would the Big 10 even feel the need to make this a stipulation ????? ......that was later changed for obvious reasons .... the last time the Big 10 courted ND to join and we said no .... we got treated like a groom who left the bride at the alter .... the Purdue game that year was especially atrocious

I've seen too many Big 10 games where it has been just ridiculous .... I had to laugh watching ND play Mich in 1988 ... we are 1st and goal ... we hand off and score a TD ... flag on the play ... false start .... the commentators replay it to see who moved ... CLEARLY .... nobody moved ... and the commentators come right out and all agree ...they say (confused) didn't see any movement there ..... 1st and 5 yards further back ... false start again .... they replay again looking for culprit .... CLEARLY .... AGAIN .... nobody moves .... the commentators are saying "let's see who moved .... after the replay it was utter silence ... they didn't say a word ... hilarious ..... next play ND runs a delayed screen to Bettis over the middle for a TD ... eat it!

 

[KMeyersNC]

When was the last time ND got screwed? ... last year at FSU .... I've seen that replay from almost every angle .... the view from the back of the endzone CLEARLY shows the db jumping in front of the wr .... also very interesting is the cameras showing the official (who has a history of screwing ND) pulling out his flag before the play even developed

Where are they continually screwed? ... they are continually screwed because they don't have their own officials .... too much $$$ at stake and conference officials protect their conference interests .... Kevin White (maybe worst AD of all time) signed a deal with the Big 10 that stated we would have to go with Big 10 Officials every game .... why would the Big 10 even feel the need to make this a stipulation ????? ......that was later changed for obvious reasons .... the last time the Big 10 courted ND to join and we said no .... we got treated like a groom who left the bride at the alter .... the Purdue game that year was especially atrocious

I've seen too many Big 10 games where it has been just ridiculous .... I had to laugh watching ND play Mich in 1988 ... we are 1st and goal ... we hand off and score a TD ... flag on the play ... false start .... the commentators replay it to see who moved ... CLEARLY .... nobody moved ... and the commentators come right out and all agree ...they say (confused) didn't see any movement there ..... 1st and 5 yards further back ... false start again .... they replay again looking for culprit .... CLEARLY .... AGAIN .... nobody moves .... the commentators are saying "let's see who moved .... after the replay it was utter silence ... they didn't say a word ... hilarious ..... next play ND runs a delayed screen to Bettis over the middle for a TD ... eat it!

Even Lou Holtz (big homer) agreed that was against the rules... you can not block, that play was poorly run, even worse than the previous TD that was allowed (the reason Jimbo went to the refs and told them to look for the pick). Sure refs see things differently on different plays, I thought you were talking about ND was not making a bowl or something they deserved... I could give you a LONG list of times where I thought my team was messed up on a particular play. On that play you can claim that this type of call is not usually called, but it to claim that the penalty was did not happen is odd. Both of the receivers straight up blocked off the line. Ummmm, clearly not legal. Hands down and running into the players they would have totally gotten away with it.

FSU fans complain about the holding that happened in that game... but still that was a play, a game... even had you won that game you would not have made the play offs. Actually, you were set up well to make the play offs if you won out that year even after losing that game.

As for conference officials, I completely agree with you that this should be a thing of the past. We need NCAA officials that are assigned from varying parts of the country. I can show you plenty of video of how bad ACC official have been... straight up cheating bad... like moving the ball forward before taking a mark... like calling blocks in the back that don't exist... not knowing the right rules... and on and on and on. If you think FSU is a favored child of the ACC then you have not seen too many of the games. Be prepared to be totally frustrated when you play the North Carolina schools.

 

[Buguit]

Even Lou Holtz (big homer) agreed that was against the rules... you can not block, that play was poorly run, even worse than the previous TD that was allowed (the reason Jimbo went to the refs and told them to look for the pick). Sure refs see things differently on different plays, I thought you were talking about ND was not making a bowl or something they deserved... I could give you a LONG list of times where I thought my team was messed up on a particular play. On that play you can claim that this type of call is not usually called, but it to claim that the penalty was did not happen is odd. Both of the receivers straight up blocked off the line. Ummmm, clearly not legal. Hands down and running into the players they would have totally gotten away with it.

FSU fans complain about the holding that happened in that game... but still that was a play, a game... even had you won that game you would not have made the play offs. Actually, you were set up well to make the play offs if you won out that year even after losing that game.

As for conference officials, I completely agree with you that this should be a thing of the past. We need NCAA officials that are assigned from varying parts of the country. I can show you plenty of video of how bad ACC official have been... straight up cheating bad... like moving the ball forward before taking a mark... like calling blocks in the back that don't exist... not knowing the right rules... and on and on and on. If you think FSU is a favored child of the ACC then you have not seen too many of the games. Be prepared to be totally frustrated when you play the North Carolina schools.

I believe Holtz made his statements in the ESPN studio without the benefit of the video from the back of the endzone ..... Did you see it? .... it looks very clear to me that it wasn't blocking and the db jumped the route and initiated the contact ..... funny thing is ESPN would not and still has not shown this video .... it was only put out by South Bend Tribune .... funny

Surely ..... it would appear that ND wouldn't have made playoffs anyways ... but point being .... the powers that be made sure it wouldn't before ND fell to the injury bug and losses

I also can believe (without watching ACC games because I don't follow it) that there is terrible officiating for many others and not just ND .... as a fan of ND I can only recall one game .... EVER ... in my 40 plus years of watching games where ND received calls it shouldn't leading to a win (MSU the last time we played them) ... from an ND standpoint .... we don't have our own officials

Funny thing is .... is that even though they tried to level this playing field by using officials from affiliated conferences (though we aren't an official member) ..... those officials aren't really in our corner either since the tie in ND receives for potentially receiving that conferences bowl slot .... they don't really want ND to get their bowl slot and walk away with the $$$ without sharing it with the conference

All being said .... I am totally on board with your reasoning and call for getting rid of conference officials and can easily believe you've seen ripoffs as bad or worse

 

[TurnoverMachine]

Reading the articles regarding other coaches opinions about ND's independent status .... the theme seems to be that ND has an advantage as an independent ..... I can't believe these guys make six/seven figures ..... that is completely stupid

Anyone with half a brain knows our independent status puts ND at a distinct disadvantage sine the ONLY WAY ND can get in the playoff is undefeated and maybe not even then .... a one loss ND team is out regardless of who they lose to and how .... they could lose to the #1 ranked team on the road by a point and get screwed

It would be much easier to be in a conference and play the majority of cupcakes that exist in them and play one to none tough nonconference games .... the schedule would end up getting easier and they would still have a chance with one loss

A no brainer ..... the levels of stupidity cease to amaze me

Agreed. If these numb skills, that have minimal brain activity like echo, understood who ND has as a head coach they'd be quiet. ND will not have an advantage of any kind until the 2-pt conversion genius is ousted as coach.

 

[Bodizephax]

You have a nice a$$ turnovermachine.

 

[twalsh]

Not sure where ND is continually screwed, when was the last time they were cheated out of something in football (in your opinion)? ND has a special setup that the everyone else would like to have, so the politicking will continue... not sure how this equates to getting hosed.

I think they key thing is, the people who say we have a "special" or advantageous situation with things like the BCS, Bowl Alliance, etc. usually are not aware of the details of those agreements. They just go off based upon the fact that we have any agreement at all, and assume it gives us special goodies the other teams don't have. The reality of those agreements is that we get protection from getting left out if we are worthy, but it, in 99% of cases, does not provide for us to be in an advantageous position if we are not worthy. That's not what we are looking for. Never has been.

As to why we need to have our own agreement like the conferences do, you just need to ask the network paying millions of dollars for the right to broadcast the games. Other than ND itself, that's the party that has the most to lose if a worthy ND is left out of any arrangement. You aren't agreeing to pay $100 million a year for broadcasting national championship playoffs only to have the playoff organization decide that a 12-0 or highly ranked 11-1 ND team is simply not eligible. You lose the most marketable team in the country from your broadcast, and you shed doubt on the legitimacy of the supposed national championship that results. If you are the network, you are not accepting that.

 

[KMeyersNC]

Not so sure that we are not in agreement, mostly.

I do think that ND has special status, but nothing to be ashamed of and yes, something that the networks want to exploit. Notre Dame moves the ratings needle. This is a good thing. Yes, the coaches are not stupid. They would rather have ND go through the same path as their team, so they point out anything that makes that point to encourage ND to give up that advantage. In the case of the BCS is was an absolute advantage with the ND clause. With the play offs it is a lot less clear.

As I stated before, one conference is already sitting it out, if ND makes it in then that is two conferences on the outside looking in. How much power the networks have verses the conferences is going to be key. With the schedule that ND plays a perfect season and no doubt you are in. The problem with that is it is REALLY hard to have a perfect season.

I personally am really happy that ND decided to align with the ACC and hope that one day you will go all in. If not, I think that the current agreement is mutually beneficial. Actually, with respect to FSU the current agreement might even be better than going all in as we will most likely have the opportunity to play your team more often than if you join full time. I am really looking forward to seeing a game in your stadium and only hope we can give you a game as good as the one you gave us when you visited Doak.

 

[perseverare]

Reading the articles regarding other coaches opinions about ND's independent status .... the theme seems to be that ND has an advantage as an independent ..... I can't believe these guys make six/seven figures ..... that is completely stupid

Anyone with half a brain knows our independent status puts ND at a distinct disadvantage sine the ONLY WAY ND can get in the playoff is undefeated and maybe not even then .... a one loss ND team is out regardless of who they lose to and how .... they could lose to the #1 ranked team on the road by a point and get screwed

It would be much easier to be in a conference and play the majority of cupcakes that exist in them and play one to none tough nonconference games .... the schedule would end up getting easier and they would still have a chance with one loss

A no brainer ..... the levels of stupidity cease to amaze me

if and only if ND and another team both are undefeated, maybe then ND will have the advantage A/C of Brand = $ for the promoters.

 

[KMeyersNC]

No way there are 5 undefeated teams at the end of the year, or even 4. You get through your schedule unscathed and you can book your ticket. Even with only 1 loss, ND should be a strong contender. The question becomes how much conference politics come into play.

 

[echowaker]

Agreed. If these numb skills, that have minimal brain activity like echo, understood who ND has as a head coach they'd be quiet. ND will not have an advantage of any kind until the 2-pt conversion genius is ousted as coach.

clown.

 

[echowaker]

Reading the articles regarding other coaches opinions about ND's independent status .... the theme seems to be that ND has an advantage as an independent ..... I can't believe these guys make six/seven figures ..... that is completely stupid

Anyone with half a brain knows our independent status puts ND at a distinct disadvantage sine the ONLY WAY ND can get in the playoff is undefeated and maybe not even then .... a one loss ND team is out regardless of who they lose to and how .... they could lose to the #1 ranked team on the road by a point and get screwed

It would be much easier to be in a conference and play the majority of cupcakes that exist in them and play one to none tough nonconference games .... the schedule would end up getting easier and they would still have a chance with one loss

A no brainer ..... the levels of stupidity cease to amaze me

there's a method to their madness. it's calculated and strategic. it's just one of the obstacles of being independent.

 

[treetiger]

I am a Clemson fan but I've been a college football fan since the mid 1960's. I've always admired Notre Football and tradition, and still remember getting up early on Sunday mornings in the early 1970's just to watch the Notre Dame football show on TV in Charleston. Watching this helped cement my love for college football, because up until that time I was a Citadel fan and did not know as much about big-time college football.

Notre Dame has always been in a unique situation as an independent and has played some of the toughest schedules with some of the best football rivalries of all time. Yet the landscape is changing, and Notre Dame has lost some of the luster over the last several years. Now, or at least in the very near future, not being affiliated to a power conference could become a liability to a program, and as much of tradition and mystic that Notre Dame has enjoyed in the past, I do not believe that this will help them very much in the future.

I know by much of the reaction that I see and hear from Notre Dame fans is that they loathe the thought of being in a football conference, especially a conference that has been historically weak as the ACC. As much as I like as a Clemson fan playing Notre Dame, I do not want them in the ACC as I do not believe that they are a good fit from the regional stand-put. For twenty or thirty years I have always thought that Notre Dame should be in the Big-10 Conference, and I have always scratched my head in wonderment why they have resisted, especially when the Big-10 has been expanding and reaching out to Notre Dame. I will miss seeing that traditional Michigan-Notre Dame traditional match-up!

All this being said, and I am speaking from the perspective of a Clemson fan, college football and an outsider of the Notre Dame community, but I believe that, contrary to some thoughts posted here, that Notre Dame will find it exceedingly much more difficult in the future to make the play-offs under the four team format. Should they expand to eight teams (which I believe will happen within the next five years), then Notre Dames chance are much greater and they may be able to manage as an independent. But please do not take my words wrong here, as I love and have always loved Notre Dame football while living here in South Carolina, but I hope the Notre Dame football leadership will soon recognize that Notre Dame is not a proper fit in the ACC and stop this madness before it goes too much further, and will get their sense back and appeal to the Big-10 for entry, even to the point of forgiveness, so that the great Notre Dame games and rivalries that have even made it way down south to the coast of South Carolina, games such as Notre Dame-Michigan, Notre Dame-Michigan State, and yes, even Notre Dame-Purdue will once again grace the screens of our TVs. And how fantastic would it be to see annual Notre Dame and Ohio State match-ups? So please, bring the space-time continuum back into order, and if there must be a necessity to join a conference, let it be proper and in the Big-10! If for some crazy out of space-time continuum event should occur, like Notre Dame join the ACC, then we will still love and enjoy that down here as well. Good luck in the upcoming season, and GO TIGERS!!!

 

[cgvr]

I am a Clemson fan but I've been a college football fan since the mid 1960's. I've always admired Notre Football and tradition, and still remember getting up early on Sunday mornings in the early 1970's just to watch the Notre Dame football show on TV in Charleston. Watching this helped cement my love for college football, because up until that time I was a Citadel fan and did not know as much about big-time college football.

Notre Dame has always been in a unique situation as an independent and has played some of the toughest schedules with some of the best football rivalries of all time. Yet the landscape is changing, and Notre Dame has lost some of the luster over the last several years. Now, or at least in the very near future, not being affiliated to a power conference could become a liability to a program, and as much of tradition and mystic that Notre Dame has enjoyed in the past, I do not believe that this will help them very much in the future.

I know by much of the reaction that I see and hear from Notre Dame fans is that they loathe the thought of being in a football conference, especially a conference that has been historically weak as the ACC. As much as I like as a Clemson fan playing Notre Dame, I do not want them in the ACC as I do not believe that they are a good fit from the regional stand-put. For twenty or thirty years I have always thought that Notre Dame should be in the Big-10 Conference, and I have always scratched my head in wonderment why they have resisted, especially when the Big-10 has been expanding and reaching out to Notre Dame. I will miss seeing that traditional Michigan-Notre Dame traditional match-up!

All this being said, and I am speaking from the perspective of a Clemson fan, college football and an outsider of the Notre Dame community, but I believe that, contrary to some thoughts posted here, that Notre Dame will find it exceedingly much more difficult in the future to make the play-offs under the four team format. Should they expand to eight teams (which I believe will happen within the next five years), then Notre Dames chance are much greater and they may be able to manage as an independent. But please do not take my words wrong here, as I love and have always loved Notre Dame football while living here in South Carolina, but I hope the Notre Dame football leadership will soon recognize that Notre Dame is not a proper fit in the ACC and stop this madness before it goes too much further, and will get their sense back and appeal to the Big-10 for entry, even to the point of forgiveness, so that the great Notre Dame games and rivalries that have even made it way down south to the coast of South Carolina, games such as Notre Dame-Michigan, Notre Dame-Michigan State, and yes, even Notre Dame-Purdue will once again grace the screens of our TVs. And how fantastic would it be to see annual Notre Dame and Ohio State match-ups? So please, bring the space-time continuum back into order, and if there must be a necessity to join a conference, let it be proper and in the Big-10! If for some crazy out of space-time continuum event should occur, like Notre Dame join the ACC, then we will still love and enjoy that down here as well. Good luck in the upcoming season, and GO TIGERS!!!

I am a Clemson fan but I've been a college football fan since the mid 1960's. I've always admired Notre Football and tradition, and still remember getting up early on Sunday mornings in the early 1970's just to watch the Notre Dame football show on TV in Charleston. Watching this helped cement my love for college football, because up until that time I was a Citadel fan and did not know as much about big-time college football.

Notre Dame has always been in a unique situation as an independent and has played some of the toughest schedules with some of the best football rivalries of all time. Yet the landscape is changing, and Notre Dame has lost some of the luster over the last several years. Now, or at least in the very near future, not being affiliated to a power conference could become a liability to a program, and as much of tradition and mystic that Notre Dame has enjoyed in the past, I do not believe that this will help them very much in the future.

I know by much of the reaction that I see and hear from Notre Dame fans is that they loathe the thought of being in a football conference, especially a conference that has been historically weak as the ACC. As much as I like as a Clemson fan playing Notre Dame, I do not want them in the ACC as I do not believe that they are a good fit from the regional stand-put. For twenty or thirty years I have always thought that Notre Dame should be in the Big-10 Conference, and I have always scratched my head in wonderment why they have resisted, especially when the Big-10 has been expanding and reaching out to Notre Dame. I will miss seeing that traditional Michigan-Notre Dame traditional match-up!

All this being said, and I am speaking from the perspective of a Clemson fan, college football and an outsider of the Notre Dame community, but I believe that, contrary to some thoughts posted here, that Notre Dame will find it exceedingly much more difficult in the future to make the play-offs under the four team format. Should they expand to eight teams (which I believe will happen within the next five years), then Notre Dames chance are much greater and they may be able to manage as an independent. But please do not take my words wrong here, as I love and have always loved Notre Dame football while living here in South Carolina, but I hope the Notre Dame football leadership will soon recognize that Notre Dame is not a proper fit in the ACC and stop this madness before it goes too much further, and will get their sense back and appeal to the Big-10 for entry, even to the point of forgiveness, so that the great Notre Dame games and rivalries that have even made it way down south to the coast of South Carolina, games such as Notre Dame-Michigan, Notre Dame-Michigan State, and yes, even Notre Dame-Purdue will once again grace the screens of our TVs. And how fantastic would it be to see annual Notre Dame and Ohio State match-ups? So please, bring the space-time continuum back into order, and if there must be a necessity to join a conference, let it be proper and in the Big-10! If for some crazy out of space-time continuum event should occur, like Notre Dame join the ACC, then we will still love and enjoy that down here as well. Good luck in the upcoming season, and GO TIGERS!!!

Stop. ND is the #1 or #2 most valuable team in cfb. It is a global brand with global reach. I believe Forbes had us at #2. Does the ACC championship game even sell out? F scheduling the savannah state's and wolford's of the world. F the big 10 and their b.s.. ND has already overcommitted too many games to the ACC. There is zero value to "homogenizing" our brand with complete conference affiliation.

"Forgiveness" wtf are you writing about?

http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2012/09/19/the-hand-that-rocks-the-cradle-why-we-hate-michigan/

 

[KMeyersNC]

Stop. ND is the #1 or #2 most valuable team in cfb. It is a global brand with global reach. I believe Forbes had us at #2. Does the ACC championship game even sell out? F scheduling the savannah state's and wolford's of the world. F the big 10 and their b.s.. ND has already overcommitted too many games to the ACC. There is zero value to "homogenizing" our brand with complete conference affiliation.

"Forgiveness" wtf are you writing about?

http://www.herloyalsons.com/blog/2012/09/19/the-hand-that-rocks-the-cradle-why-we-hate-michigan/

No need to put the ACC down. Technically the ACC championship game sold out last year. I say technically because some seats where covered and other seats were bought up by corporate sponsors. Last years game was a good match up though as you had two (should have been top 10 -- GT was really good last year) top 20 teams playing. Play that game closer to Florida and any year that we are in it we would fill up the stadium. This whole mess of championship game, play off game #1, and then play off game#2 at $2K to $5K a pop is messed up.

Besides, you do not think that ND plus any of the marquee teams (FSU, Clemson, Louisville, VT, miami) would not sell out almost immediately? Just look at the TV ratings FSU gets when we play you (in a bowl or regular season game). The ratings are typically one of the strongest of the year, and that includes <sarcasm>the mighty</sarcasm> SEC marquee match ups.

It will be interesting to see what the ratings will be when you play Clemson... I bet they will be big.

You do realize that the former Big East and now the ACC are the only reason you have successful Olympic sports programs, right? With out that conference affiliation I doubt the Notre Dame brand would be enough to attract quality players to complete in a similar independent status, never mind the logistics nightmare of trying to set up enough games to qualify for NCAA tournaments.

And while I will capitulate that the ND brand is very strong, the ACC does have a few very worthy programs to consider affiliation (UNC, Duke, FSU, Clemson to name a few). If you are referring to staff writer Chris Smith as the voice of Forbes, I am sorry that guy makes so many flawed assumptions that if he was giving me financial advice I would run! He gives Forbes a bad name and I am surprised an editor lets him post some of that junk... it should be on the blog bleacher report. Reiterating, ND is a top brand, and at the time that was posted (2013... looking back at the 2012 season) ND very well could have been #2, but no way you have Arkansas on that list and nobody from the ACC.

Final thought, I think there could be strong reciprocal benefit even in Football for ND in the ACC. Sorry you do not see it. As I mentioned above, selfishly I hope you do stay independent as I fear the conference alignment would place in a different division from FSU and we would not have the opportunity to play as often.

 

[treetiger]

I never said that Notre Dame's brand is not high, I just do not believe that it is at the level of the 1960's, 1970's and 1980's. Also there is no doubt that ND in the ACC presents some really good match-ups, particularly against Clemson and FSU, and also with the Catholic rivalry with Boston College. Your game down in Clemson is not going to be a walk in the park. Clemson is not simply going to give way because ND beats their chest. Yet, that is the kind of mystic that I believe Notre Dame used to have. Teams, especially outside of the Big-10 area, were somewhat intimidated when they played ND back in those days. Since that time, with the scholarship level, other teams have closed the gap, also with the down period of ND football.

The gist of my point is this: Like I said, outside of a few teams, the ACC offers nothing for ND. Playing Duke, WF, UNC, NC State and Virginia is just not marquis type of games that will offer excitement nor fill the stadiums. When ND plays those teams at their place there may be just as many fans come to see ND play as there is for the host team. Transversely, there are MANY much more premier type of regional match-ups in the Big-10 and that area of the country versus in ACC Country, particularly in the southern part of the ACC. I would LOVE to have ND in the ACC because I believe that it does more for the ACC than it does for ND. What angers me are the ACC leaders who are willing to sell their souls in order to have ND with one foot in and one foot out! Personally I would give them a year or two and if they did not decide one way or the other I would break ACC ties with ND. I doubt very seriously that doing that would particularly have much impact on them as a program or you as a fan base, as I gather most of you are in disagreement with them being in the ACC just as I am.

That being said, Notre Dame, regardless of how big of a brand that you believe the Irish have, are going to pay the price of not being in a power conference until they increase the amount of teams in the play-off. Plus the SEC brand exceeds that of Notre Dame, and as I said before, they are much more likely to take another SEC team than Notre Dame if the second SEC team has a similar to better record than Notre Dame. You can all go hyper-crazy by believing that nothing of the sort can happen to Notre Dame, but you may have to take a slap in the face of reality before you believe. At this present time, unless they go undefeated, Notre Dame NEEDS a conference, and their a several conferences that NEED Notre Dame...

 

[Nocalirish]

Treetigger, you know nothing about ND football. Go back to the clemson board with your inbred brothers.