Ian Book's Senior Season

[IrishInOntario]

Everyone should try to improve.

Of course I’m content with Book’s performance last year.

He completed 68.2 % of his passes and had a YPA of 8.4 and went undefeated in the regular season.

Every player has things to work on, everyone strives to improve.

Please don’t pretend that you have an in depth knowledge of football.

I'd gladly see his completion percentage drop 4-5% if means he's being more aggressive downfield and hitting shot plays. Against the type of defenses that you're going see in the playoffs (unless you get lucky enough to play Oklahoma) you can't nickel and dime them down the field and hope to win. Their athletes are too good. Over 10-14 plays they are going make a stop and get off the field. You need to hit a strike over their heads. That's how Clemson worked Alabama. Justyn Ross and Tee Higgins averaged 25.5 and 27.0 yards per catch in that game, on a combined 9 catches for 234 yards and 2 touchdowns. Even when they didn't score, their downfield catches directly led to touchdowns.

Against Alabama, Lawrence had completions of...

Tee Higgins: 62 yards
Tavien Feaster: 26 yards
Amari Rodgers: 26 yards
Justyn Ross: 74 yards
Justyn Ross: 37 yards

Against Clemson, Book had completions of...

Miles Boykin: 23 yards

There is a huge difference in points that are going to be scored in those two scenarios.

 

[Patrirish]

You do realize that pro teams, in season prepare for their opponents in the neighbourhood of 15-16 hours per day, right? Between practice, team film, position group film, strength and conditioning, etc, 15×6 = 90 hours, plus what game day prep prior to kick off.

Coaches spend even more time. A lot of coaches sleep in their offices or at the facility a couple nights per week so they don't have to commute to and from work. It isn't unheard of for coaches to work 18+ hour days in season, get about 5-6 hours of sleep, get up and start working again. That's why they look so damb exhausted all the time.

We worked 90 hour weeks in season when I was coaching college ball. We only had access to our kids for about 30 hours though each week. Kids that we sent to play pro football would almost always comment on how much of a commitment and adjustment it was in their rookie season, trippling the expectations of their time commitment to their craft.

IIO,

You really don’t know what you’re talking about regarding the hours that NFL players devote to preparation.

16 hours a day would have them working from 8:00am until 12:00am, which is preposterous.

You’re nowhere close to understanding the practice routines of NFL players.

Coaches aren’t subject to the CBA, players are.

 

[Patrirish]

You don’t have very good reading comprehension

You have no intellectual understanding of football !

 

[Patrirish]

I'd gladly see his completion percentage drop 4-5% if means he's being more aggressive downfield and hitting shot plays. Against the type of defenses that you're going see in the playoffs (unless you get lucky enough to play Oklahoma) you can't nickel and dime them down the field and hope to win. Their athletes are too good. Over 10-14 plays they are going make a stop and get off the field. You need to hit a strike over their heads. That's how Clemson worked Alabama. Justyn Ross and Tee Higgins averaged 25.5 and 27.0 yards per catch in that game, on a combined 9 catches for 234 yards and 2 touchdowns. Even when they didn't score, their downfield catches directly led to touchdowns.

Against Alabama, Lawrence had completions of...

Tee Higgins: 62 yards
Tavien Feaster: 26 yards
Amari Rodgers: 26 yards
Justyn Ross: 74 yards
Justyn Ross: 37 yards

Against Clemson, Book had completions of...

Miles Boykin: 23 yards

There is a huge difference in points that are going to be scored in those two scenarios.

One game does not a season make.

Tua and Trevor completed 69.0 % and 65.2 % of their passes respectively.

Their YPA’s were 11.2 and 8.3 respectively, so the ‘season’s stats don’t support your claim

 

[IrishInOntario]

IIO,

You really don’t know what you’re talking about regarding the hours that NFL players devote to preparation.

16 hours a day would have them working from 8:00am until 12:00am, which is preposterous.

You’re nowhere close to understanding the practice routines of NFL players.

Coaches aren’t subject the the CBA, players are.

They do an enormous amount of film preparation on their own time, individually and as groups. I spent a week in Detroit shadowing their staff and 3 days in Seattle shadowing theirs. We were invited in the off season for professional development opportunities... I've also coached kids that play in the CFL and have spent time in NFL camps.

In season it's common for them to lift, practice, eat 3 or 4 meals, have 2 film sessions (maybe even 3 if they play special teams), get treatment in multiple forms once or twice, have a position group meeting or two, do media obligations, then go home and fall asleep watching film of their opponent before waking back up early to start again...

Not all preparation is done at work and not all preparation is enforced by the team. In season, guys have in the neighbourhood of 12 hours per day of "team" work. But extra treatment, film, specific lifts, etc, add more time to that.

I maintain what I said, based on what I know and what I've seen. 15 hour days devoted to football in one form or another are not uncommon in the NFL.

 

[Patrirish]

They do an enormous amount of film preparation on their own time, individually and as groups. I spent a week in Detroit shadowing their staff and 3 days in Seattle shadowing theirs. We were invited in the off season for professional development opportunities... I've also coached kids that play in the CFL and have spent time in NFL camps.

In season it's common for them to lift, practice, eat 3 or 4 meals, have 2 film sessions (maybe even 3 if they play special teams), get treatment in multiple forms once or twice, have a position group meeting or two, do media obligations, then go home and fall asleep watching film of their opponent before waking back up early to start again...

Not all preparation is done at work and not all preparation is enforced by the team. In season, guys have in the neighbourhood of 12 hours per day of "team" work. But extra treatment, film, specific lifts, etc, add more time to that.

I maintain what I said, based on what I know and what I've seen. 15 hour days devoted to football in one form or another are not uncommon in the NFL.

I’m not unfamiliar with NFL teams and NFL players.

You may want to start by reading Articles 24 and 35 of the NFL CBA.

You vastly overstated their in season preparation hours.

They don’t “prepare” on their day off and they don’t “prepare on “game day”

That leaves the remaining 5 days of the week.

Your 100 hours equates to 20 hours a day.

I’m sure that you see the folly in your position.

 

[IrishInOntario]

One game does not a season make.

Tua and Trevor completed 69.0 % and 65.2 % of their passes respectively.

Their YPA’s were 11.2 and 8.3 respectively, so the ‘season’s stats don’t support your claim

Yards per attempt don't tell the story of your downfield, completes passes. Yards PER COMPLETION do.

Below are Tu'a's completions of 20 or more yards in the 2018 season. Now consider that he was out in the third quarter of a lot of his games and as soon as the 2nd quarter of some as well. Jalen Hurts added another dozen or so downfield throws while he was in the game, but here are Tu'a's...

DeVonta Smith: 28 yards
Devonta Smith: 26 yards
Jaylen Waddle: 49 yards, touchdown
DeVonta Smith: 27 yards
Jerry Jeudy: 25 yards
Irv Smith: 32 yards
Jerry Jeudy: 58 yards, touchdown
Henry Ruggs III: 31 yards, touchdown
Irv Smith: 22 yards
Devonta Smith: 41 yards, touchdown
Henry Ruggs III: 20 yards
DeVonta Smith: 30 yards
Jerry Jeudy: 79 yards, touchdown
Jerry Jeudy: 35 yards
Jerry Jeudy: 22 yards, touchdown
Jaylen Waddle: 30 yards
DeVonta Smith: 30 yards, touchdown
Josh Jacobs: 25 yards
Jerry Jeudy: 20 yards
Irv Smith: 21 yards
Hale Hentges: 23 yards, touchdown
Damien Harris: 52 yards
Jerry Jeudy: 21 yards
Irv Smith: 42 yards
Henry Ruggs III: 57 yards
Jerry Jeudy: 34 yards
Jerry Jeudy: 24 yards
Irv Smith: 47 yards
Henry Ruggs: 21 yards
Jerry Jeudy: 42 yards, touchdown
Jerry Jeudy: 60 yards, touchdown
Jerry Jeudy: 22 yards
DeVonta Smith: 21 yards
DeVonta Smith: 57 yards
Damien Harris: 20 yards
Jaylen Waddle: 77 yards, touchdown
Jerry Jeudy: 31 yards
Jaylen Waddle: 22 yards
Irv Smith: 25 yards
Henry Ruggs III: 45 yards, touchdown
Jerry Jeudy: 29 yards
Irv Smith: 25 yards, touchdown
Jerry Jeudy: 30 yards
Jerry Jeudy: 24 yards
Irv Smith: 25 yards
Irv Smith: 21 yards
Jaylen Waddle: 29 yards
Jaylen Waddle: 21 yards, touchdown
Jerry Jeudy: 22 yards
Henry Ruggs III: 22 yards
Henry Ruggs III: 54 yards
Irv Smith: 68 yards, touchdown
Henry Ruggs: 21 yards
Jerry Jeudy: 46 yards, touchdown
Josh Jacobs: 33 yards, touchdown
DeVonta Smith: 20 yards
DeVonta Smith: 40 yards, touchdown
Henry Ruggs III: 22 yards
Jaylen Waddle: 53 yards, touchdown
Jaylen Waddle: 23 yards
Jaylen Waddle: 51 yards, touchdown
DeVonta Smith: 50 yards
Jerry Jeudy: 40 yards
Josh Jacobs: 27 yards, touchdown
DeVonta Smith: 21 yards
Jerry Jeudy: 62 yards, touchdown
Irv Smith: 21 yards
DeVonta Smith: 23 yards
Jerry Jeudy: 48 yards

73 completions that Tu'a completed for 20 or more yards. 22 of those passes went for touchdowns. 21 of those passes went for 40 or more yards

Now here are Ian Book's completions for 20 or more yards...

Alize Mack: 24 yards
Michael Young: 66 yards
Tony Jones: 30 yards
Chase Claypool: 35 yards
Kevin Austin: 29 yards
Miles Boykin: 33 yards
Miles Boykin: 20 yards
Ian Book: 35 yards, touchdown
Chris Finke: 56 yards
Miles Boykin: 40 yards, touchdown
Miles Boykin: 20 yards
Miles Boykin: 30 yards
Chase Claypool: 21 yards
Miles Boykin: 35 yards, touchdown
Kevin Austin: 28 yards
Jafar Armstrong: 25 yards
Cole Kmet: 24 yards
Chris Finke: 26 yards
Jafar Armstrong: 27 yards
Miles Boykin: 22 yards, touchdown
Cole Kmet: 24 yards
Miles Boykin: 20 yards, touchdown
Chase Claypool: 31 yards
Chris Finke: 26 yards
Chase Claypool: 21 yards
Chase Claypool: 27 yards
Chase Claypool: 33 yards
Ian Book: 47 yards
Miles Boykin: 24 yards
Chris Finke: 24 yards, touchdown
Chase Claypool: 20 yards
Miles Boykin: 38 yards
Miles Boykin: 23 yards
Chase Claypool: 28 yards
Dexter Williams: 22 yards
Tony Jones: 51 yards, touchdown

36 completions that Book completed for 20 or more yards. 7 of those passes went for touchdowns. 4 of those passes went for 40 or more yards.

Tu'a Tagavailoa: 255 / 355 attempts, 73 completions of 20 yards or more. 21 completions of 40 yards or more. 22 touchdowns of 20 yards or greater.

Ian Book: 214/314 attempts, 36 completions of 20 yards or more. 4 completions of 40 yards or more. 7 touchdowns of 20 yards or greater.

On a similar number of attempts, Tu'a far out performed Book as a downfield passer. Both in terms of yardage and touchdown totals. Number of games played is irrelevant, only pass attempts matter and in that case, both players had a similar number attempted. There were also a lot of games that Alabama was crushing their opponent and Saban refused to throw deep passes... And I do realize that some of the above plays for both guys were shorter throws that their receivers turned into longer plays, but overwhelmingly, both players' chunk plays through the air came on downfield throws. I'm not about to watch every snap to pick out the few passes by each guy that were short passes that wound up going for big yardage.

 

[Patrirish]

The “Gold Standard” or “benchmark” is YPA, NOT YPC.

A 1 yard swing pass could be recorded as a 98 yard completion, thus skewing the stats.

You have to bifurcate each reception in order to determine the actual length of the pass.

Total yardage minus YAC.

How many seconds from the snap did each QB have at the point of release ?

How overpowering was the run game, causing the DB’s to play up ?

And you can’t ignore the completion percentage and YPA.

 

[IrishInOntario]

The “Gold Standard” or “benchmark” is YPA, NOT YPC.

A 1 yard swing pass could be recorded as a 98 yard completion, thus skewing the stats.

You have to bifurcate each reception in order to determine the actual length of the pass.

Total yardage minus YAC.

How many seconds from the snap did each QB have at the point of release ?

How overpowering was the run game, causing the DB’s to play up ?

And you can’t ignore the completion percentage and YPA.

I'm not ignoring anything... I'm saying that Tu'a completed more than double the passes of 20 or more yards than Ian did, on 31 more attempts. He exceeded the number of passes that went for 40 or more yards by 5x and he tripled the numbers of touchdowns than Ian had over 20 yards. I conceded that both players tossed SOME shorter routes that went the distance but you and I both know that the majority of Tu'a's deep passes were downfield throws, as were Book's

He also outpaced Ian by 3 yards per attempt, which is enormous over 355 attempts. Hell, given that he had a higher completion rate than Book as well, it amounts to more than 1000+ yards of passing offense, on only 41 more attempts.

It wasn't close. Nor was the TD / INT ratio... And both were juniors and both, first year starters.

 

[chaseball]

The “Gold Standard” or “benchmark” is YPA, NOT YPC.

A 1 yard swing pass could be recorded as a 98 yard completion, thus skewing the stats.

You have to bifurcate each reception in order to determine the actual length of the pass.

Total yardage minus YAC.

How many seconds from the snap did each QB have at the point of release ?

How overpowering was the run game, causing the DB’s to play up ?

And you can’t ignore the completion percentage and YPA.

In the NFL a lot of the advanced stats sites out there track something called "air yards" and it is the amount of distance between where the ball left of passers hand and where the receiver was when he caught it all the yards in between that are considered air yards and this is definitely a stat that helps to provide clarity in this debate amongst quarterbacks who have better downfield throwing ability.

It would be awesome if this was tracked in college football.

Also I have a lot of trouble understanding any comparison between Tua and Book without mentioning the huge talent discrepancy between the skill players on Alabama's offense and the skill players on Notre Dame's offense and having a single wide receiver who was drafted in the NFL doesn't mean anything compared to Alabama's weapons.

Alabama has a who's who of top 50 nationally rated star prospects several layers deep at wide receiver and running back right now dating back the last several seasons.

Tua is a better quarterback than ian book .. but without adjusting for or qualifying the amount of talent that's on Alabama's offense compared to Notre Dame's especially at the skill position makes it hard to see the complete picture

 

[Patrirish]

I'm not ignoring anything... I'm saying that Tu'a completed more than double the passes of 20 or more yards than Ian did, on 31 more attempts. He exceeded the number of passes that went for 40 or more yards by 5x and he tripled the numbers of touchdowns than Ian had over 20 yards. I conceded that both players tossed SOME shorter routes that went the distance but you and I both know that the majority of Tu'a's deep passes were downfield throws, as were Book's

He also outpaced Ian by 3 yards per attempt, which is enormous over 355 attempts. Hell, given that he had a higher completion rate than Book as well, it amounts to more than 1000+ yards of passing offense, on only 41 more attempts.

It wasn't close. Nor was the TD / INT ratio... And both were juniors and both, first year starters.

You’re forgetting to factor in the quality of the receivers for ND and Alabama.

Tell us, which ND receivers had exceptional speed, the kind of speed that would enable them to beat DB’s deep ?

Was ND’s receiving corps the equal of Alabama’s ?

Calvin Ridley, Jerry Jeudy, Irv Smith, Devonta Smith, Jaylon Waddle.
Jeudy is projected as the # 1 receiver in the country this year.

You’re also forgetting that Tua was the # 2 passer in the nation.

So what’s your point, that Tua had a better team with considerably more talent, better, faster receivers and a line that gave him more time to throw deep balls ?

 

[Patrirish]

In the NFL a lot of the advanced stats sites out there track something called "air yards" and it is the amount of distance between where the ball left of passers hand and where the receiver was when he caught it all the yards in between that are considered air yards and this is definitely a stat that helps to provide clarity in this debate amongst quarterbacks who have better downfield throwing ability.

It would be awesome if this was tracked in college football.

Also I have a lot of trouble understanding any comparison between Tua and Book without mentioning the huge talent discrepancy between the skill players on Alabama's offense and the skill players on Notre Dame's offense and having a single wide receiver who was drafted in the NFL doesn't mean anything compared to Alabama's weapons.

Alabama has a who's who of top 50 nationally rated star prospects several layers deep at wide receiver and running back right now dating back the last several seasons.

Tua is a better quarterback than ian book .. but without adjusting for or qualifying the amount of talent that's on Alabama's offense compared to Notre Dame's especially at the skill position makes it hard to see the complete picture

So in order to be successful Book has to outperform the # 1 or # 2 QB’s in the nation, regardless of his supporting cast ?

What does everybody want from the guy ?

He was undefeated in the regular season.
He beat everyone he faced.

What more can you ask of a QB ?

 

[francade]

Man, we can really see how you think Ian is gonna have an “awesome” year after reading your last dissertations on how much better tua is. The funny thing is that all we hear from you recruiting geeks, I mean experts, is how much better bama and Clemson and Ohio state and Oklahoma are than ND, yet don’t take into account the fact that if that is indeed true, then it has to be more difficult for book to succeed than their qbs, right? I mean if they’re surrounded by all this superior talent, shouldn’t they be putting up better numbers? Could book could put up similar numbers in their offenses? That’s more rhetorical than anything. Book’s already had a great season w/ ND’s talent, so it’s pretty much a given he would’ve had better numbers playing for any of them, right? And just ftr, you act as though you’re doing book a favor by saying he’s gonna have a great year. You’re not really going out on a limb there, he’s already kinda been there done that. I hope he repeats, I know for some here, that’s grounds for benching him, but to rational people, that’s a great season, again.

 

[Patrirish]

Question for all of you experts.

If Tua was ND’s QB last year, would ND have beaten Clemson ?

Yes or No.

No long winded evasive bullshit !

Yes or No

 

[chaseball]

So in order to be successful Book has to outperform the # 1 or # 2 QB’s in the nation, regardless of his supporting cast ?

What does everybody want from the guy ?

He was undefeated in the regular season.
He beat everyone he faced.

What more can you ask of a QB ?

the bottom half of my post was more in response to the argument Irish in Ontario was making. I was saying that we need to adjust for the fact that Alabama is loaded with skill-position talent way beyond that of Notre Dame's.

Book would definitely have better numbers in Ohio State or Alabama or Clemson's offense but that's not to say he would automatically have as good as numbers as Haskins did last year or Tua did last year or Trevor Lawrence did.

there's a lot of nuance here and a lot of factors to consider but I think stats like passer efficiency rating and adjusted yards per attempt do a pretty good job of isolating a quarterbacks performance and giving you some foundation with which to compare quarterbacks and Tuas and Murray's passer efficiency rating were way above and beyond the competition. These quarterbacks were non-debatably the best quarterbacks in college football last year

 

[chaseball]

There's a lot of room in between being the very best quarterback in college football and being good enough.

I think Ian book falls somewhere in that range and he will have every chance to prove just how good he can be.

And given how difficult it is to find competent quarterbacks at this level Notre Dame has already won half the battle in regards to their quarterback position. Now it is just a matter of fixing the other 84 spots on the roster so that they can actually compete for a national title.

 

[francade]

“These quarterbacks were non-debatably the best quarterbacks in college football last year”

I don’t think any supporter of book has said they weren’t. No, that’s just the basher’s go-to argument to knock him. “Well, he’s pretty good but he’s no Trevor Lawrence or tua or Murray”.

No shit, was that what they expected? Lets’s face it, he exceeded everyone’s expectations by playing as well as he did, and the ones that knocked him are back peddling and doing their best to cover up how wrong they were and/or they were in love w/ wimbush and are disappointed w/ the move. This narrative that he held our offense back and needs to improve or he should be benched is 100% BS. That’s the type of stuff that’s been posted about him. Then, they’ll throw out some backhanded compliments w/ caveats illustrating any perceived weaknesses. That’s their MO. It’s as tiresome as having to defend his play. As I said before, can’t wait for the season to start so we can perform autopsies for every negative play he makes. Conflicted fandom for the bashers to say the least. Really looking forward to it.

 

[chaseball]

“These quarterbacks were non-debatably the best quarterbacks in college football last year”

I don’t think any supporter of book has said they weren’t. No, that’s just the basher’s go-to argument to knock him. “Well, he’s pretty good but he’s no Trevor Lawrence or tua or Murray”.

No shit, was that what they expected? Lets’s face it, he exceeded everyone’s expectations by playing as well as he did, and the ones that knocked him are back peddling and doing their best to cover up how wrong they were and/or they were in love w/ wimbush and are disappointed w/ the move. This narrative that he held our offense back and needs to improve or he should be benched is 100% BS. That’s the type of stuff that’s been posted about him. Then, they’ll throw out some backhanded compliments w/ caveats illustrating any perceived weaknesses. That’s their MO. It’s as tiresome as having to defend his play. As I said before, can’t wait for the season to start so we can perform autopsies for every negative play he makes. Conflicted fandom for the bashers to say the least. Really looking forward to it.

listening to the Notre Dame media you hear this type of rhetoric all the time. I agree 100%. there's this sentiment that the reason Notre Dame didn't compete against Clemson last year was because of Ian book. and Notre Dame is just pacifying the quarterback position right now until it could get one of its better prospects ready with no acknowledgement that Ian book is probably one of the best quarterbacks to come around since the clausen era.

Just finding a competent quarterback at this level is extremely difficult let alone finding one who is actually pretty good.

that is why I also think it is silly when Brian Kelly gets a lot of criticism for not being able to develop quarterbacks when he's consistently been able to produce good production out of the position his entire tenure. I think it is spoiling fans a little bit.

Notre Dame's quarterback position is constantly getting compared to the mega Superstars at the position but there's a whole lot of room behind the very best. and there are plenty of big time programs who struggle to fieild a competent quarterback with any consistency.

Notre Dame always has a quarterback ready regardless of suspensions transfers injuries poor performance etc.

 

[IrishInOntario]

You’re forgetting to factor in the quality of the receivers for ND and Alabama.

Tell us, which ND receivers had exceptional speed, the kind of speed that would enable them to beat DB’s deep ?

Was ND’s receiving corps the equal of Alabama’s ?

Calvin Ridley, Jerry Jeudy, Irv Smith, Devonta Smith, Jaylon Waddle.
Jeudy is projected as the # 1 receiver in the country this year.

You’re also forgetting that Tua was the # 2 passer in the nation.

So what’s your point, that Tua had a better team with considerably more talent, better, faster receivers and a line that gave him more time to throw deep balls ?

You're forgetting the fact Tua faced the following scoring defenses...

#1 Clemson
#2 Miss State
#14 Auburn
#15 Georgia
#26 LSU

Ian Book didn't face a top 30 scoring defense until the Clemson debacle...

1# Clemson

Don't like scoring defense? How about pass defense?

#1 Miss State
#5 Clemson
#13 Georgia
#25 LSU
#31 Texas A&M
#38 Auburn

How many top 40 scoring defenses did Ian Book face?

#1 Clemson

So yes, Alabama has more overall talent at the receiver positions, but they also faced FAR superior defenses all season. The only quality defense ND faced all year held them to 3 points. That defense also held Tu'a to 14 points, but he shredded every other defense he faced... And there were a lot of good ones.

Who on ND had the type of speed to get deep last year? You do realize that Boykin ran 4.42 at the combine and is 6'4, with "Go-Go Gadget arms" right?. Claypool will be drafted higher than Boykin and will run in the same low 4.4 range... That is plenty fast at that size. As fast, or faster than Michael Floyd, who had no problem getting deep. Miles Boykin was open deep a lot last year. Not to mention, we already discussed the fact that until Clemson, ND didn't face a quality defense.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Question for all of you experts.

If Tua was ND’s QB last year, would ND have beaten Clemson ?

Yes or No.

No long winded evasive bullshit !

Yes or No

No. It would not have made a huge difference. The conversation was about deep ball acumen and completion, not about winning championships.

You and Francade keep wanting to change the context of the conversation... I wasn't making an argument comparing Tu'a and Book in talent... I was comparing an average downfield passer to an excellent downfield passer, to show people what kind of scoring offense and explosive plays you can create when your QB is accurate at the third level.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Man, we can really see how you think Ian is gonna have an “awesome” year after reading your last dissertations on how much better tua is. The funny thing is that all we hear from you recruiting geeks, I mean experts, is how much better bama and Clemson and Ohio state and Oklahoma are than ND, yet don’t take into account the fact that if that is indeed true, then it has to be more difficult for book to succeed than their qbs, right? I mean if they’re surrounded by all this superior talent, shouldn’t they be putting up better numbers? Could book could put up similar numbers in their offenses? That’s more rhetorical than anything. Book’s already had a great season w/ ND’s talent, so it’s pretty much a given he would’ve had better numbers playing for any of them, right? And just ftr, you act as though you’re doing book a favor by saying he’s gonna have a great year. You’re not really going out on a limb there, he’s already kinda been there done that. I hope he repeats, I know for some here, that’s grounds for benching him, but to rational people, that’s a great season, again.

How much better Tua is (or was) THROWING THE DEEP BALL. The post was specifically about the ability to throw the ball accurately at the 3rd level and how many explosive plays you create because of it.

Your argument about Alabama having better surrounding talent is partially negated by the astronomical difference in defensive talent that Tu'a faced last year compared to Book, who didn't play against Michigan and didn't face a top 40 defense until Clemson... Relatively speaking, Tu'a connected at a near 2 to 1 rate on deep balls, at a higher overall completion percentage, for 3x the number of touchdowns, against significantly better competition.

Nothing in those two previous paragraphs takes anything away from what Book did to ramp up ND's scoring offense, how deadly he was in the short passing game and how efficient he in the read option game... You can be critical of one aspect of someone's game (hell, his coach was just the other day), and still be impressed by the others.

I think Rees nailed it... Ian has to do two things better this year to have a wonderful senior season. I'm talking about a 35+ total touchdown, 3500+ total yard season on which ND's PPG jump into the top 15 range.

1. He needs to stay in the pocket and finish his progression. If he does that, he'll find guys breaking open downfield.

2. He just needs to complete the easy, open looks that lead to big plays. The post to the middle of the field from the boundary, that comes open late after the safety bails to the field. The double moves to Finke when their isn't a defender within 10 yards of him. The tight ending the seem once you have Kmet back and the matchup advantage is there.

 

[Patrirish]

How much better Tua is (or was) THROWING THE DEEP BALL. The post was specifically about the ability to throw the ball accurately at the 3rd level and how many explosive plays you create because of it.

Your argument about Alabama having better surrounding talent is partially negated by the astronomical difference in defensive talent that Tu'a faced last year compared to Book, who didn't play against Michigan and didn't face a top 40 defense until Clemson... Relatively speaking, Tu'a connected at a near 2 to 1 rate on deep balls, at a higher overall completion percentage, for 3x the number of touchdowns, against significantly better competition.

Nothing in those two previous paragraphs takes anything away from what Book did to ramp up ND's scoring offense, how deadly he was in the short passing game and how efficient he in the read option game... You can be critical of one aspect of someone's game (hell, his coach was just the other day), and still be impressed by the others.

I think Rees nailed it... Ian has to do two things better this year to have a wonderful senior season. I'm talking about a 35+ total touchdown, 3500+ total yard season on which ND's PPG jump into the top 15 range.

1. He needs to stay in the pocket and finish his progression. If he does that, he'll find guys breaking open downfield.

2. He just needs to complete the easy, open looks that lead to big plays. The post to the middle of the field from the boundary, that comes open late after the safety bails to the field. The double moves to Finke when their isn't a defender within 10 yards of him. The tight ending the seem once you have Kmet back and the matchup advantage is there.

1. “Stay in the pocket”. Look at the film of the Clemson game and tell us how many times an unimpeded Clemson Dlineman pressures Book.

2. “Easy open looks”. Until Clemson he completed more than 70 % of his passes and was undefeated. With those “easy open looks” should he be completing 90 % of his passes ?

Look at the passes dropped against Clemson and the non-PI call.

Miss St was # 7, Miami was #1

# 24 Clemson
# 45. Miami (OH)
# 46. Pitt
# 47. Massachusetts
#48. Ball St

As to LSU, Book defeated them in 2018.

You act as if Book is solely responsible for the offensive production.

If he doesn’t have the time, if he doesn’t have the speed receivers how can he produce your numbers.

 

[francade]

“How many top 40 scoring defenses did Ian Book face?

#1 Clemson”

Stanford was #37 (and nwstrn was #41 so they were practically a top 40 defense too), but hey if it strengthens your narrative, by all means, leave them off the list.

 

[IrishInOntario]

“How many top 40 scoring defenses did Ian Book face?

#1 Clemson”

Stanford was #37 (and nwstrn was #41 so they were practically a top 40 defense too), but hey if it strengthens your narrative, by all means, leave them off the list.

Admittedly I missed Stanford at #37. They were tied with Iowa State so I didn't see them there. You are correct, he faced two top 40 scoring defenses.

If you want to count Northwestern at #41, go for it. We'll extend it to top 50. That brings Texas A&M and and Mizzou into the equation, both of whom Tu'a faced.

That means 8 teams Tu'a faced had top 50 scoring defenses.

 

[irish4life888]

Question for all of you experts.

If Tua was ND’s QB last year, would ND have beaten Clemson ?

Yes or No.

No long winded evasive bullshit !

Yes or No

Probably, not but we would have been a lot more competitive. Oh, and I don't have a dog in this fight but IIO is intellectually beating you like a red headed stepchild. Not calling you dumb, but he obviously has a much more experience in this field of college/nfl football than you. The problem is when he explains something to you in a very non-demeaning way, you just make excuses which sorry only makes you look worse. As for me, I understand my limitations and would not go head to head in IIO when it comes to this arena. Now, If he want's to throw down with me when it comes to IT stuff the Game On!! LOL.

 

[SIhoosier26]

One game does not a season make.

Tua and Trevor completed 69.0 % and 65.2 % of their passes respectively.

Their YPA’s were 11.2 and 8.3 respectively, so the ‘season’s stats don’t support your claim

Are you really trying to argue that Book is as good as either of them? Come in now

 

[SIhoosier26]

“How many top 40 scoring defenses did Ian Book face?

#1 Clemson”

Stanford was #37 (and nwstrn was #41 so they were practically a top 40 defense too), but hey if it strengthens your narrative, by all means, leave them off the list.

Fact- Alabama played elite scoring defenses all year.

Fact- Notre Dame played one top scoring defense, and that defense held them to 3 points with over a month to prepare.

 

[francade]

“Fact- Alabama played elite scoring defenses all year.

Fact- Notre Dame played one top scoring defense, and that defense held them to 3 points with over a month to prepare.”


Fact-The “expert” made a mistake when he was describing how many top 40 defenses book faced. All I did was point it out.

And Alabama didn’t play elite pass defenses all year (only miss st & Clemson were elite against the pass). I wouldn’t consider LSU, a&m or auburn “elite” pass defenses unless you would consider being ranked #25-38 elite. There were some inept offenses in the SEC, especially passing offenses, so those numbers look good but those defenses certainly were not great against any semblance of a good passing attack.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Probably, not but we would have been a lot more competitive. Oh, and I don't have a dog in this fight but IIO is intellectually beating you like a red headed stepchild. Not calling you dumb, but he obviously has a much more experience in this field of college/nfl football than you. The problem is when he explains something to you in a very non-demeaning way, you just make excuses which sorry only makes you look worse. As for me, I understand my limitations and would not go head to head in IIO when it comes to this arena. Now, If he want's to throw down with me when it comes to IT stuff the Game On!! LOL.

I'm more than happy to debate anyone with an interest in football, as long as they're rational. I rarely agree with Patirish or Francade, but I always welcome the debate. Both of them have something to add to the conversation and that's all we can ask for on a message board.

I've been wrong at times and it's my opinion that so have they. That's why it's a debate and not a lecture. Opposing opinions make for quality conversation. It would be a boring message board if we all agreed.

 

[Patrirish]

Are you really trying to argue that Book is as good as either of them? Come in now

Have someone explain my posts to you as it’s apparent that you don’t understand them.

 

[Patrirish]

Admittedly I missed Stanford at #37. They were tied with Iowa State so I didn't see them there. You are correct, he faced two top 40 scoring defenses.

If you want to count Northwestern at #41, go for it. We'll extend it to top 50. That brings Texas A&M and and Mizzou into the equation, both of whom Tu'a faced.

That means 8 teams Tu'a faced had top 50 scoring defenses.

Scoring defenses aren’t the concern when it comes to everyone’s rap on Book.

It’s passing defenses.

Book isn’t responsible for the running game’s production.

 

[Patrirish]

I'm more than happy to debate anyone with an interest in football, as long as they're rational. I rarely agree with Patirish or Francade, but I always welcome the debate. Both of them have something to add to the conversation and that's all we can ask for on a message board.

I've been wrong at times and it's my opinion that so have they. That's why it's a debate and not a lecture. Opposing opinions make for quality conversation. It would be a boring message board if we all agreed.

AGREE !

 

[francade]

“I'm more than happy to debate anyone with an interest in football, as long as they're rational. I rarely agree with Patirish or Francade, but I always welcome the debate. Both of them have something to add to the conversation and that's all we can ask for on a message board.

I've been wrong at times and it's my opinion that so have they. That's why it's a debate and not a lecture. Opposing opinions make for quality conversation. It would be a boring message board if we all agreed”

Excellent post, Ontario. You’ve made me want to bury the hatchet and extend an olive branch. That goes for the others that I’ve disagreed w/ on this subject or any others, for that matter. We’re all here to root for ND and even though we have a lot of differing opinions, we all want ND back on top. I know there will be things posted that I will not agree w/, but I will do my absolute best to be as civil as possible in the future. Like you said, debate is a good thing and what message boards are about, so here’s to that message. Keep ‘em coming and keep it as civil as possible.