Freeman is a message board hire
- Thread starter shooter1977
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I'm guessing there haven't been near enough at major programs to even begin to make the odds realistic. Which is also a function of how many have been assistants. Seems pretty straight forward...and non-controversial, assuming one acknowledges equality of opportunity was denied Black coaches for so long.
Anyways, this will change. There are great Black coaches who have come up the ranks. Same with Hispanics, etc.
I'll take a Russian spy if she can coach ND to a NC.
😉
It's not just this message board. It's everywhere.... Completely up and down and top to bottom wherever ND fans may roam. And not just fans, the ND media as well. Just smearing him.... It's only the national media that has pushed back a little bit on this lynch mob.
3x national coach of the year, all-time winning ND coach, ridden out on a rail by an online drunken posse...
As to Freeman, I listened to this:
I like what I hear. But what I gleaned from this and other videos I watched, a few basically said: we will compete at the highest level without compromising our standards and values.
It's thrilling to hear. Because I want to believe the good guys can win. Like Freeman says, maybe there are enough top athletes who can fit at ND but don't know it.
I know, I'm the 1st to cite negative odds...but faith is faith. I'll stay hopeful, attuned, and at least entertained.
I like what I hear. But what I gleaned from this and other videos I watched, a few basically said: we will compete at the highest level without compromising our standards and values.
It's thrilling to hear. Because I want to believe the good guys can win. Like Freeman says, maybe there are enough top athletes who can fit at ND but don't know it.
I know, I'm the 1st to cite negative odds...but faith is faith. I'll stay hopeful, attuned, and at least entertained.
It's ND's responsibility, but I wouldn't call it anyone's FAULT. ND is an ACADEMIC institution seeking -- RATHER HEROICALLY, I'd add -- to hold its own in a football factory environment. ND's FOREVER CAKE AND EAT IT QUEST.
Kelly on an ND Nation video a few years ago made it clear that recruiting consistent top 5 classes to ND was virtually impossible. I don't have the video, but it's there somewhere, and I remember watching it more than once.
But, honestly, who isn't aware that this is the case -- unless ND changed things when no one was watching. But let's assume, nothing has materially changed.
So, what does Kelly after a dozen years of trying to win an NC do? He goes to LSU where I would guess he's been promised admission to any player he can convince to go there. ANYONE.
LSU wants to win an NC. Kelly wants to win an NC. ND wants an NC -- BUT ONLY ON ITS OWN TERMS.
The calculus for Kelly and LSU is that they will get the BEST PLAYERS who will draw the BEST COACHES who will, in turn, draw the BEST PLAYERS, etc, etc.
Meanwhile, inexperienced Marcus Freeman -- excellent recruiter though he is -- will have a DIFFICULT TIME competing due to the ADMISSIONS/ACADEMICS ANKLE WEIGHTS all ND coaches are forced to wear.
Plus, from ND's viewpoint -- and this is its sanctimonious out-clause -- any failures to develop good teams will fall squarely on Freeman for being either a poor coach or disappointing recruiter or both. Even though as with all ND coaches, the deck is stacked against him from DAY ONE.
Meanwhile, Kelly's betting that he wins an NC at LSU before Freeman or anyone else does at ND because of the EXTREME STRUCTURAL ADVANTAGE HE WILL CERTAINLY ENJOY.
Can't ague with any of this.
I'm as usual hoping for the improbable...that there are enough academically qualified athletes willing to go to ND to play on a more or less even level under Freeman. For a 4-6 year elite run.
No doubt, a structural disadvantage, which reduces the likelihood of having talent in depth with enough game breaking NFL talent. Here's hoping to the outlier.
🍺
And those are EXACTLY the two horns of the DILEMMA.
Your CRITICAL phrase is "willing to cripple the program." But how do you define it?
Does Freeman cripple the program buy going 8-4 two years in a row because he's still learning the job?
Or does Fickell cripple the program by starting from scratch and going 8-4 for two years because he lost two recruiting classes?
For me, it's easier to rebuild recruiting than to turn Freeman into someone comparable to Fickell. Others, including you, see it differently.
But no one is out of line arguing either position.
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A lot is involved in winning a National Championship and none of it involves skin color.
Right. But that's exactly the mission.
Take the hill with a force two-thirds the size of what the defenders have when in fact a 3 to 1 force advantage is what you need to "assure" success.
Kelly got tired of charging up the hill.
Now, he believes he can take it.
Put it this way. Brian Kelly did a lot with less. And he knew what he was getting into. Finally, he gets an offer he can't refuse. Think of it from his perspective. He knows he's good, but he also knows that the bar at ND for an NC is TOO DAMN HIGH.
But don't burst a vessel over it. These guys aren't making you any money, are they?
It is what it is. ND could always catch lightning in a bottle. But are we going back to the 60's, 70's, late 80's and early 90's when ND was the consensus premier program?
HIGHLY UNLIKELY.
Better to think more like an Oakland A's fan. Always a chance, rarely a trophy.
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I think that's one you DON'T have to worry about. Recruiting. It would not shock if me we had top five classes for three years running, with Marcus Freeman as ND's new HC. I'm not sure if you could design a more striking, charismatic guy, who will sweep guys off their feet, and ND is about to be seriously in the money when it comes to recruiting, and it's probably going to be a real difference-maker for the program. Irrespective of his actual coaching chops.
So who knows if ND will ever a championship again. But we're going to recruit real well....
Holtz started with 105 scholarships, lowered to 95, and then to 85 as the number is currently. How did his stats vary with the changing scholarship numbers. Without that analysis, using Holtz as a standard is meaningless.
The ND Football culture is not in a twisted place. You are in a twisted place. Haven't you died on Kelly Hill already. Go take your place among the minority of Kelly supporters on the LSU boards. You saw the reaction when Kelly left. No one shed a tear. The players, the assistants, the former players - they were all happy to see him go. 43-4 - so what. Of those 43 wins, how many came against Top 10 teams? With the schedule Kelly had, he should have won that many games. Plus, the guy got a decade to get it right. Davie didn't. Ty didn't. Weis didn't. Hopefully Freeman will get 10 years if he wants it. My guess is he'll surpass Kelly's accomplishments by winning a major bowl and getting a playoff win within 5 years if not sooner. And not everyone hated Kelly from the get go either. He earned that farewell by his actions and demeanor over his tenure. I've never seen a fan base so happy to see such a successful coach head out the door.
I cried like a baby when Ara retired and that's it. I told my brother that I feared ND would never be the same. There's something about Coach Freeman I like and trust. I think for some unexplainable reason that he can get the job done or die trying. I look forward to the Irish/Freeman journey. I think it will result in the Irish return to glory.
Sometimes you just got to believe......
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Sometimes you just got to believe......
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Your about as wrong as you can be.
In life, it takes years to build up a rock solid reputation, and Kelly, deservedly built up a good one,. but it only takes one misstep, one mistake, intentional or unintentional to tear it down.
Kelly tore his down ……. Intentionally !
Kelly publicly, in front of a National audience, declared that he wasn’t leaving ND,
Then, about a week later during the night, he informs the AD that he’s resigning and going to LSU.
No dispute over money.
No dispute over control
No disputes whatsoever
And you don’t see anything wrong with that ?
You don’t see any reasonable grounds for criticism ?
Kelly wasn’t ridden out on a rail, there were no disputes with the administration, the team or the BOT, instead he chose to sneak out like a thief in the night.
You don’t have the ability to focus on the core issue.
It’s NOT about his record which almost every rational person acknowledges was outstanding.
The “core” issue Is about HOW he went about leaving ND.
Please take off the blinders !
I have no doubt that a Freeman wasn't hired and Luke fickell was, we would have lost probably all of our assistant coaches, and our recruiting class would have fallen apart now you may not think that's bad, but it would take two years to recover we'll probably have transfers to the portal from those fourth and fifth year seniors in our program would have been decimated in my opinion. Kelly may have had the program honor roll so to speak, but it's probably best he's gone as we need new blood. He wasn't the consummate recruiter, hired his crony friends remember BVG? And as I've repeated numerous times he lack the Killer Instinct. You made a lot of poor coaching decisions for example South Florida, when he went for the touchdown stead of the field goal that would have won the game, against North Carolina in the raon when he kept throwing in the rain instead of running the ball. And other games like that. So while fickle may have been the better hire from a experience perspective, we all know that is the assistant coaches that coach up the players. Under Kelly we had basically zero special teams.
If Freeman was a message board hire, why wasn't the message board a Kelly getting fired in 2016?
The fact fickell who is a generational hire in my opinion wasn’t waited on is a real head scratcher.
They looked better than most. It’s Cincinnati dude, not sure your age but Cincinnati. The fact they got there is insane
The timing of Kelly’s quitting put the administration in a bind.
I agree that they shouldn’t have pulled the trigger so fast
They got there by beating a Kelly coached ND team by 2 scores at ND. That was their signature win.
Just because you suck Kelly’s D doesn’t mean we have to.
Kelly’s quitting when he did, put ND in a terrible bind, he absolutely fooked ND and he fooked ND for years to come.
He was a self-centered dirt bag.
Now you can go back to s___king his D
This program is headed for 3 years of mediocrity at best unless Jack has the balls to fire him now, which he does not, we will have to watch this disaster unfold for 3 years. He likely will be scared to fire him before watching the train wreck unfold so he has a legitimate reason to part ways. By then the culture of the program will be wrecked and no coach will want to touch our losing program with unrealistic expectations. All preventable. Could have said peace out to Reece and Freeman and brought in Fickell to move the needle from where BK had it. Instead Jack bent to public opinion. Pathetic.
I'm a glass is full guy. I believe Freeman will be successful. Can't judge based on one game.
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