Estime fumbles

[ftnfan62]

Replaying this game, the OL took a slight step back. There were just very few holes for the backs that we have been seeing. Contact with backs was almost always 2 yards in and DP's RPO fakes are let's just say awful. Just pull one of those and keep them honest. It was so bad, you can literally hear them yelling pass as the ball is still in the belly of the back (2nd qtr, 11:47 mark). You also see the DE's selling out to crashing the backs.

There were times where Diggs just had nowhere to go and lowered his head and picked up the tough yards. He was averaging well over 5 yards a carry into the 4th when we went on the "we are going to run it, try to stop us".

A few of his runs where 9 yards in a pile of bodies where he kept his feet. The OL really had very few large holes to run through if you watch. The late run off the right side and the TD for Tyree where about it. Most of the time the backs had contact at the LOS.

As far as Digs, he missed the entire off season and fall. Thats training, shape, weights, contact. Maybe he is not as good as AE, maybe he is better. From what I saw, IMHO, there is little drop off between those two outside of ball security.

For the RB room, RBs do not normally stay after 3 years if they have a shot at the bigs. It's likely that Tyree puts his hat in the draft and in 23 you are down to your last year for RB1, RB2 with a freshman stud and 2 others injured. There is plenty of room the way the years are playing out. Someone who was just a "throw in" like a CBO may leave, but outside it should take care of itself.

 

[tbonesays]

Fumbilitis is like putting yips in golf - unfortunately very hard to shake.

That turning point fumble vs Stanford was unpreventable. A falling defender's helmet speared the ball in a perfect spot. I am not even sure he was trying to knock it loose.

 

[bizzybecknd]

AE is averaging a yard more per carry and due to his fumble didn't get many carries vs the worst D we've faced this year, especially run D

We all agree Diggs should be the guy right now due to AE Fumble issues, my fear is he'll look like the logan diggs we've seen all season except for one carry vs BYU and UNLV game. Everyone forgets how bad diggs has been this year except for our last game vs a division 2 Defense.

AE was mediocre against Oh St, Cal and Marshal averaging 2.3, 3.3 and 4.2 YPC. Best games came against BYU/UNC where Pyne averaged a passer rating of 178 and threw for 3 TDs each. You think there must be a correlation between a balanced attack, threat of the Pass game to keep the D from loading the box- something that Diggs didn’t have the luxury of on Saturday. Point is, not all Carry’s are created equal, Diggs is finally healthy and enjoy watching the best RB on the team aka RB1 the rest of the way!

 

[bizzybecknd]

Not one single coach or analyst left the ND stanford game sayin "if only we hadn't fumbled".. Everyone with simple football IQ new the major issue was pathetic offense and having 100 yards and no points in the first half, then being average in the second half.

All the analysts left Saturday praising Diggs?? No doubt ND should have never been in that position but the reality was they were and the fumble cost ND an opportunity to kick a field goal and take the lead late into the 4th quarter. Those are facts and something as a coach would lead to a spot on the pine.

 

[Golson5]

AE was mediocre against Oh St, Cal and Marshal averaging 2.3, 3.3 and 4.2 YPC. Best games came against BYU/UNC where Pyne averaged a passer rating of 178 and threw for 3 TDs each. You think there must be a correlation between a balanced attack, threat of the Pass game to keep the D from loading the box- something that Diggs didn’t have the luxury of on Saturday. Point is, not all Carry’s are created equal, Diggs is finally healthy and enjoy watching the best RB on the team aka RB1 the rest of the way!

The last 4 games Estime ypc were 7.9, 6.9, 7.1, 5.7

Logan Diggs last 4 games ypc 5.0, 5.5, 6.3, 4.6

You mentioned osu and marshall. Diggs ran for 2.3 against osu, same as estime. And then 1.0 against mighty marshall. 7 carries 7 yards.

The only thing Diggs is better at is not fumbling the ball which is very important

 

[bizzybecknd]

The last 4 games Estime ypc were 7.9, 6.9, 7.1, 5.7

Logan Diggs last 4 games ypc 5.0, 5.5, 6.3, 4.6

You mentioned osu and marshall. Diggs ran for 2.3 against osu, same as estime. And then 1.0 against mighty marshall. 7 carries 7 yards.

The only thing Diggs is better at is not fumbling the ball which is very important

Health, broadcast mentioned several times Diggs is finally healthy, was supposed to be out the first 4 games so let’s see how Diggs does as RB1 now 100% and against the meat of the schedule with 3 Top 20 teams.

 

[BGI User 756]

AE is averaging a yard more per carry and due to his fumble didn't get many carries vs the worst D we've faced this year, especially run D

We all agree Diggs should be the guy right now due to AE Fumble issues, my fear is he'll look like the logan diggs we've seen all season except for one carry vs BYU and UNLV game. Everyone forgets how bad diggs has been this year except for our last game vs a division 2 Defense.

I recall Diggs from last year…pre injury…he was fine. He was favoring the shoulder earlier this year and why he was tentative

Don’t forget how pedestrian AE was against OSU, Marshall, Cal

he had great games against UNC and BYU and Stan but he fumbled….. but all our RBs had better games then too

 

[BGI User 756]

The last 4 games Estime ypc were 7.9, 6.9, 7.1, 5.7

Logan Diggs last 4 games ypc 5.0, 5.5, 6.3, 4.6

You mentioned osu and marshall. Diggs ran for 2.3 against osu, same as estime. And then 1.0 against mighty marshall. 7 carries 7 yards.

The only thing Diggs is better at is not fumbling the ball which is very important

Diggs carried the load against UNLV, AE only had 3 touches so you are quoting out of context

 

[Golson5]

Diggs carried the load against UNLV, AE only had 3 touches so you are quoting out of context

Hes had a higher ypc in every game they both played. Diggs missed one game.

 

[Golson5]

Diggs carried the load against UNLV, AE only had 3 touches so you are quoting out of context

I know 28 carries and only 4.6 per. Not very impressive. Hope he gets better

 

[BGI User 756]

Hes had a higher ypc in every game they both played. Diggs missed one game.

Yes we know, we can read stat lines. Not all ypc are the same. And as you have acknowledged, AE’s ball security eliminates him as the best all around back…and Diggs is more versatile

as I said, I love the 1-2 punch

but AE only had 3 touches against a tired UNLV defense

 

[BGI User 756]

I know 28 carries and only 4.6 per. Not very impressive. Hope he gets better

Me too

28 and 130 I’ll take every week

 

[Golson5]

Yes we know, we can read stat lines. Not all ypc are the same. And as you have acknowledged, AE’s ball security eliminates him as the best all around back…and Diggs is more versatile

as I said, I love the 1-2 punch

but AE only had 3 touches against a tired UNLV defense

They weren't tired when he got those carries. It's irrelevant anyway. He fumbles too much. But he's a better back minus the fumbles.

I also think he has more catches than Diggs on the year. And he finds the endzone. Gotta coach it out of him. Tiki barber cured his fumbling problem

I just see no speed or suddenness or explosion out of Diggs. He's just a nice all around back who has no special skills about him

 

[Golson5]

Me too

28 and 130 I’ll take every week

Not me. Not in college football

 

[NIN Irish]

Me too

28 and 130 I’ll take every week

Audric would have 200 yards with that many carries. He's the best running back if he didn't fumble, imo.
If only he would hold onto the ball!

 

[BGI User 756]

They weren't tired when he got those carries. It's irrelevant anyway. He fumbles too much. But he's a better back minus the fumbles.

I also think he has more catches than Diggs on the year. And he finds the endzone. Gotta coach it out of him. Tiki barber cured his fumbling problem

I just see no speed or suddenness or explosion out of Diggs. He's just a nice all around back who has no special skills about him

AE is not faster than Diggs by measurements that ND reported. I haven’t seen where AE is demonstrably faster

But AE has great feet IMO and does find EZ

diggs has more wiggle and does more with less room and blocks better in pass pro and doesn’t fumble, so any “what if” is irrelevant. His fumbles changed the momentum in 3 games to the negative. Until he stops fumbling he isn’t the better back by any comparison

 

[BGI User 756]

Audric would have 200 yards with that many carries. He's the best running back if he didn't fumble, imo.
If only he would hold onto the ball!

Okie dokie

and if only PJ didn’t throw all those picks..

 

[BGI User 756]

Not me. Not in college football

For ND offense it usually means a good thing

 

[bizzybecknd]

Hes had a higher ypc in every game they both played. Diggs missed one game.

You are failing to acknowledge a couple factors: 1) Harping on Diggs 4.6 YPC when the offense was one dimensional running out the clock and elevating AE’s YPC in games where Pyne had a 178’passer rating and offense was dual threat. 2) Dismissing the fact 43% of games AE averaged less than 4.2 YPC 3) dismissing Diggs injury. enjoy watching NDs most complete back carry the load as RB1!

 

[Golson5]

AE is not faster than Diggs by measurements that ND reported. I haven’t seen where AE is demonstrably faster

But AE has great feet IMO and does find EZ

diggs has more wiggle and does more with less room and blocks better in pass pro and doesn’t fumble, so any “what if” is irrelevant. His fumbles changed the momentum in 3 games to the negative. Until he stops fumbling he isn’t the better back by any comparison

Diggs is slow and has no explosion

 

[Golson5]

For ND offense it usually means a good thing

Its not good at all

 

[Golson5]

You are failing to acknowledge a couple factors: 1) Harping on Diggs 4.6 YPC when the offense was one dimensional running out the clock and elevating AE’s YPC in games where Pyne had a 178’passer rating and offense was dual threat. 2) Dismissing the fact 43% of games AE averaged less than 4.2 YPC 3) dismissing Diggs injury. enjoy watching NDs most complete back carry the load as RB1!

I've used Diggs ypc every single game. Estime has been higher every game

 

[bizzybecknd]

I've used Diggs ypc every single game. Estime has been higher every game

Did those games include an asterisk noting injury or other factors such as run/pass ratio, passer rating? Listing out YPC doesn’t acknowledge any other factors

 

[Golson5]

Did those games include an asterisk noting injury or other factors such as run/pass ratio, passer rating? Listing out YPC doesn’t acknowledge any other factors

That question would make sense if we were comparing backs from 2 different teams. These 2 play on the same team

 

[bizzybecknd]

That question would make sense if we were comparing backs from 2 different teams. These 2 play on the same team

So a player playing at 60% should only be compared to a player at 100% when on different teams? Got it, each game is equally the same, regardless of any other factors and YPC is black and white and the sole barometer at which to gauge a RB.

 

[BGI User 756]

Diggs is slow and has no explosion

Neither does AE…he needs two steps to get going downhill

 

[BGI User 756]

They weren't tired when he got those carries. It's irrelevant anyway. He fumbles too much. But he's a better back minus the fumbles.

I also think he has more catches than Diggs on the year. And he finds the endzone. Gotta coach it out of him. Tiki barber cured his fumbling problem

I just see no speed or suddenness or explosion out of Diggs. He's just a nice all around back who has no special skills about him

AE has one more catch than Digg, but averages only 13.2 yards to Diggs’ 17.5. So Diggs has to be the better back!!!

 

[Get Nasty]

AE has one more catch than Digg, but averages only 13.2 yards to Diggs’ 17.5. So Diggs has to be the better back!!!

I really wish diggs was a great back, he’s just not. He will be serviceable and play solid when oline has a good game or lesser opponent. He loves the game but it’s just not their physically.

 

[ftnfan62]

Alan Pinkett averaged 4.6, Gerome Heavens was 4.5, Autrey Denson was 5.1, Darius Walker was 4.7 and Josh Adams was an amazing 6.7.

Diggs seems to be in decent company with Pinkett, Heavens and Walker.

They are both very good backs and would start on most teams. I would agree Nasty, I dont see GREAT back. Kyren was the last GREAT back we have had in many years.

 

[Golson5]

Alan Pinkett averaged 4.6, Gerome Heavens was 4.5, Autrey Denson was 5.1, Darius Walker was 4.7 and Josh Adams was an amazing 6.7.

Diggs seems to be in decent company with Pinkett, Heavens and Walker.

They are both very good backs and would start on most teams. I would agree Nasty, I dont see GREAT back. Kyren was the last GREAT back we have had in many years.

Different eras.

Adams averaged 6.7
Dexter averaged 6.4
Kyren averaged 5.1
Prosise averaged 6.9
Tony Jones averaged 5.5
Cierre wood averaged 5.4
Jonas gray 5.8
Tarean folston 5.0
George atkinson 6.2

Anything under 5 in college now adays is pedestrian

 

[bizzybecknd]

Different eras.

Adams averaged 6.7
Dexter averaged 6.4
Kyren averaged 5.1
Prosise averaged 6.9
Tony Jones averaged 5.5
Cierre wood averaged 5.4
Jonas gray 5.8
Tarean folston 5.0
George atkinson 6.2

Anything under 5 in college now adays is pedestrian

What do you attribute the higher YPC in todays era? Could it possibly be the threat of the passing game??? Hmm maybe the performance of the QB in these games IS a factor? I’ll be damned.

Mix in run/pass ratio, time of game (aka bleeding the clock and running 90% of the time) and maybe there factors that play into YPC?

 

[BGI User 1596]

What do you attribute the higher YPC in todays era? Could it possibly be the threat of the passing game??? Hmm maybe the performance of the QB in these games IS a factor? I’ll be damned.

Bad tackling!

 

[Golson5]

Wouldn't that

What do you attribute the higher YPC in todays era? Could it possibly be the threat of the passing game??? Hmm maybe the performance of the QB in these games IS a factor? I’ll be damned.

Mix in run/pass ratio, time of game (aka bleeding the clock and running 90% of the time) and maybe there factors that play into YPC?

Wouldn't that make Audrics 5.5 ypc even more impressive?

 

[BGI User 1596]

Wouldn't that

Wouldn't that make Audrics 5.5 ypc even more impressive?

Not if you’re implying a different narrative.

 

[bizzybecknd]

Wouldn't that

Wouldn't that make Audrics 5.5 ypc even more impressive?

Why's that?

 

[Golson5]

Why's that?

You're using our poor qb performance to try and rationalize Diggs' 4.6 ypc and make it seem better than it is. So if we have a poor qb doesn't that make the 5.5 ypc more impressive

 

[bizzybecknd]

You're using our poor qb performance to try and rationalize Diggs' 4.6 ypc and make it seem better than it is. So if we have a poor qb doesn't that make the 5.5 ypc more impressive

Hmm..the 2 games AE had 10+ Carries and averaged 7.9 and 6.9 were when ND QB had a passer rating averaging 178. The three games where he went 2.3, 3.3 and 4.2 passer rating averaged 130, which would Diggs was on par with against UNLV averaging 4.6 with a passer rating of 127. Seems to be a correlation?

 

[Get Nasty]

Hmm..the 2 games AE had 10+ Carries and averaged 7.9 and 6.9 were when ND QB had a passer rating averaging 178. The three games where he went 2.3, 3.3 and 4.2 passer rating averaged 130, which would Diggs was on par with against UNLV averaging 4.6 with a passer rating of 127. Seems to be a correlation?

Every team plays us pretty much the same…. When the oline/rb combo plays well we have a shot… estime had more carry’s early when oline played poor. Oline is playing well now and diggs due to
Estimes fumbles is getting more carry’s . It’s pretty clear until unlv a small terrible D that diggs actually looked bad carrying the ball except for 2-3 Runs all season. Diggs vs unlv was run into a pile, stay standing and let oline push for extra yardage. He didn’t out run defenders, or make them miss, or run them over.

 

[Harpo Marxist]

A running back with acute fumblitis isn't ND's best running back .....he's the best running back for the opponent's team. If a player can't correct it.....bench him until he can.

 

[bizzybecknd]

Every team plays us pretty much the same…. When the oline/rb combo plays well we have a shot… estime had more carry’s early when oline played poor. Oline is playing well now and diggs due to
Estimes fumbles is getting more carry’s . It’s pretty clear until unlv a small terrible D that diggs actually looked bad carrying the ball except for 2-3 Runs all season. Diggs vs unlv was run into a pile, stay standing and let oline push for extra yardage. He didn’t out run defenders, or make them miss, or run them over.

That may be true but Pynes performance have not been the same, nor has NDs offensive game plan. Why has AE averaged less than 4.6 against the juggernauts of Marshall and Cal when Pyne had a similar rating as UNLV?
“He would be a great Quarterback if he just didn’t throw it to the opposing team” - Bill Parcels