Does Pyne Transfer

[Golson5]

From what yard line ?

Why didn’t you tell us in what game he threw the other and from what yard line.

Answer: Because you don’t know.

Why don’t you admit that you just accepted another posters claim ?

I was at the game. I saw with my own eyes

Just show us one time

 

[4-4-3]

I am not saying that taking the ball first every time is the reason Notre Dame hasn't won a National Championship. That would be ridiculous. And I've made the argument just this year in saying if ever there was a year where you should defer, this is the year. A weak OLine combined with your best strength being your defense (of the two units). If that's your best group, why not have them attack? You may even take the crowd out of it from the get-go.

I've also mentioned the ability to lower the other team's crowd noise to start the game because the opponents crowd can't be as loud as if they were on defense for fear that you drown out your own team's ability to hear the snap count or maybe an audible. The crowd at the start of a game is typically louder than the crowd to start the second half.

I believe his decision to always do this is one of his flaws. Stubborn. I don't think I've ever seen the greatest coaches of all time, certainly in recent history do this. Perhaps when Knute coached? His teams had the ability to back up that strategy is my guess, IF HE even did that.

Today we look at Urban and Saban et al, those considered at the top of CFB coaching (I know Urban took an NFL job this year) but, I just never see these guys doing that. They're pretty smart about football. Perhaps Kelly is smarter.

But, yes, it's a pet peeve of mine. As well, I believe and probably 95% of Head Coaches agree, that it doesn't work too well as a measurement of strategic acumen. Certainly not for the Notre Dame team this year. A 5-1 record was not as a result of strategic acumen scoring 14 points in 6 first quarters. He beats teams he should beat. Going down to Cincy 17-0 and who was very beatable that day, and at home. Just watching, Cincy did not show their best or else their best is just not that good. and then having to kick off to start the 2nd probably didn't help momentum for us. I dare say it rarely does.

I hear what you're saying, but it still strikes me as an arbitrary sticking point when so many other factors come into play, particularly as respects the track record of a coach -- and I inadvertently shorted Kelly on his record in previous posts -- who has an overall 74% winning percentage and 72.8% at ND.

I mean, even if you could pin ALL of the losses Kelly's sustained since 2017 to taking the ball first -- and I doubt that anyone could -- what about the much greater number of games he's won during that same span? Where is the injury? Are we in danger here of letting the perfect become the enemy of the good?

As for Cincy, if Coan doesn't throw the INT on a drive that had first-possession/score-first written all over it; if Buchner doesn't throw the pick-six; if Tyree doesn't fumble the ensuing kickoff; and if ND's D holds Cincy from going up 24-13 -- ND most likely wins that game.

The problem, as I see it, was not taking the ball first. The problem was the turnovers and the D not holding at the critical moment.

If Kelly starts losing a boatload of games directly traceable to taking the ball first, then I'll agree that you have something. But till then, I don't see any persuasive data either specifically or on an overall basis and for that reason, I again question the relevance of the complaint. For me, it simply doesn't compute. And if it's a FLAW, I don't see it as material, i.e. having less than a 3 to 4% impact on a given outcome as per the accountancy definition of material.

But like you said, it's a pet peeve of yours. So, maybe that's what's driving your concern. On the other hand, it doesn't bother me at all. Different strokes.

 

[4-4-3]

I can see him sticking around another year and being a valuable guy in the qb room, as a teammate & backup qb. Buchner is a runner and that only increases the odds of injury. He's one play away from being the starter. He loves ND and is a ND kid. He will get his degree from ND after next year. Then I can see him maybe transferring back near home to maybe Uconn and having a pretty solid 5th year for a severely struggling program that needs a local guy just like Drew Pyne to help out. He also would have the option of a 6th year as well if that's something he and whatever school he is at is willing to do. So maybe he's at ND for 6 years! Haha.

And then maybe off to Canada to play in the CFL.

 

[Weisnheimer]

I hear what you're saying, but it still strikes me as an arbitrary sticking point when so many other factors come into play, particularly as respects the track record of a coach -- and I inadvertently shorted Kelly on his record in previous posts -- who has an overall 74% winning percentage and 72.8% at ND.

I mean, even if you could pin ALL of the losses Kelly's sustained since 2017 to taking the ball first -- and I doubt that anyone could -- what about the much greater number of games he's won during that same span? Where is the injury? Are we in danger here of letting the perfect become the enemy of the good?

As for Cincy, if Coan doesn't throw the INT on a drive that had first-possession/score-first written all over it; if Buchner doesn't throw the pick-six; if Tyree doesn't fumble the ensuing kickoff; and if ND's D holds Cincy from going up 24-13 -- ND most likely wins that game.

The problem, as I see it, was not taking the ball first. The problem was the turnovers and the D not holding at the critical moment.

If Kelly starts losing a boatload of games directly traceable to taking the ball first, then I'll agree that you have something. But till then, I don't see any persuasive data either specifically or on an overall basis and for that reason, I again question the relevance of the complaint. For me, it simply doesn't compute. And if it's a FLAW, I don't see it as material, i.e. having less than a 3 to 4% impact on a given outcome as per the accountancy definition of material.

But like you said, it's a pet peeve of yours. So, maybe that's what's driving your concern. On the other hand, it doesn't bother me at all. Different strokes.

Apparently you want to opine on the idea that I think it's the most important decision of all time in taking the football first. It is YOU that is making it out that my point of contention is somehow my overall belief of how NDs games are being won or lost. You asked for my reasoning, I gave you a good one about crowd noise. I gave some benefits of getting the ball to start the second half. I pointed out the vast majority of coaches agree with me and I with them.

You call it an arbitrary sticking point (which seems more a sticking point for you as you want to keep going on it) and I call it a pet peeve. You want to point out OF COURSE the possible things that can or did happen in a specific game that IYO makes my pet peeve null and void. I get it. You're trying to make little of it. I think it's bigger. I think it's a flaw in his football acumen. 95% of coaches agree with my POV.

We differ on this opinion. Should we kick this can down the road some more?

 

[4-4-3]

Apparently you want to opine on the idea that I think it's the most important decision of all time in taking the football first. It is YOU that is making it out that my point of contention is somehow my overall belief of how NDs games are being won or lost. You asked for my reasoning, I gave you a good one about crowd noise. I gave some benefits of getting the ball to start the second half. I pointed out the vast majority of coaches agree with me and I with them.

You call it an arbitrary sticking point (which seems more a sticking point for you as you want to keep going on it) and I call it a pet peeve. You want to point out OF COURSE the possible things that can or did happen in a specific game that IYO makes my pet peeve null and void. I get it. You're trying to make little of it. I think it's bigger. I think it's a flaw in his football acumen. 95% of coaches agree with my POV.

We differ on this opinion. Should we kick this can down the road some more?

Yes, because you've posed an issue which I've questioned, while asking you for evidence of the harm you've claimed it's doing. Does it not matter to try to be fact-based? Did I not send you what data I could find on the question you asked me, even though it was incomplete and wasn't exactly the right response to your question? But I tried. In order to back up what I was saying, thereby giving the exchange and you the necessary respect.

So, respectfully, I'll ask again . . .

What concrete harm has Kelly's taking the ball first accounted for? How many games can you point to that ND has lost over it? If it's a flaw, what EXACTLY has it cost ND? Is it just a flaw IN PRINICPLE -- some sort of perceived bad form -- or is it actually affecting the outcome of games?

As to the question itself, I didn't only not bring it up, I never considered it. And when I did, I saw no proof that it is IN ANY WAY a DEMONSTRABLE LIABILITY. So, it's definitely not MY fixation. But since you threw out the topic and I engaged in discussing it, I'm trying to keep it FACTUAL by asking you for evidence of what you're at the very least implying.

And it's this straightforward: Please substantiate/quantify WHY you think Kelly is doing the team harm by not deferring. And that, to you, he definitely is SEEMS TO BE what you're implying as he's not among the 95% of coaches who do.

So what?

Before Mike Leach, no one used the spread. Then with some exceptions, almost everyone started using some version of it. In fact, it put Lou Holtz type football out of business. Yet, before the spread, many would have called spreading out the offensive line idiotic. Why? Because they hadn't SEEN what Leach saw. Perhaps, Kelly sees or knows something, too. Who knows?

By the way, these things occur in cycles or come and go, period. At one time, each of these formations was innovative: the ND box/shift, single wing, T-formation, wishbone option, veer, I-formation and wildcat. Deferring is all the rage now, but then one day, sentiment may shift to TAKE THE BALL FIRST. Who knows?

Regardless, there's nothing that says there's some RECEIVED WISDOM involved in deferring, nor any quantitative proof to back up such a claim. And, as that's the case, no reasonable argument that I've seen that Kelly is WRONG in not doing it.

So, I'm asking -- WHERE'S THE HARM other than that Kelly's not deferring may be disconcerting to you. That it's an ongoing CRITICAL ERROR on his part I don't see evidence of. Perhaps because there isn't any, and it's just something you don't like.

As for me, I don't see it as seminal. But if I'm wrong and there's a concrete negative correlation out there, bring it on, and I'll be the first to recalibrate.

 

[Weisnheimer]

Yes, because you've posed an issue which I've questioned, while asking you for evidence of the harm you've claimed it's doing. Does it not matter to try to be fact-based? Did I not send you what data I could find on the question you asked me, even though it was incomplete and wasn't exactly the right response to your question? But I tried. In order to back up what I was saying, thereby giving the exchange and you the necessary respect.

So, respectfully, I'll ask again . . .

What concrete harm has Kelly's taking the ball first accounted for? How many games can you point to that ND has lost over it? If it's a flaw, what EXACTLY has it cost ND? Is it just a flaw IN PRINICPLE -- some sort of perceived bad form -- or is it actually affecting the outcome of games?

As to the question itself, I didn't only not bring it up, I never considered it. And when I did, I saw no proof that it is IN ANY WAY a DEMONSTRABLE LIABILITY. So, it's definitely not MY fixation. But since you threw out the topic and I engaged in discussing it, I'm trying to keep it FACTUAL by asking you for evidence of what you're at the very least implying.

And it's this straightforward: Please substantiate/quantify WHY you think Kelly is doing the team harm by not deferring. And that, to you, he definitely is SEEMS TO BE what you're implying as he's not among the 95% of coaches who do.

So what?

Before Mike Leach, no one used the spread. Then with some exceptions, almost everyone started using some version of it. In fact, it put Lou Holtz type football out of business. Yet, before the spread, many would have called spreading out the offensive line idiotic. Why? Because they hadn't SEEN what Leach saw. Perhaps, Kelly sees or knows something, too. Who knows?

By the way, these things occur in cycles or come and go, period. At one time, each of these formations was innovative: the ND box/shift, single wing, T-formation, wishbone option, veer, I-formation and wildcat. Deferring is all the rage now, but then one day, sentiment may shift to TAKE THE BALL FIRST. Who knows?

Regardless, there's nothing that says there's some RECEIVED WISDOM involved in deferring, nor any quantitative proof to back up such a claim. And, as that's the case, no reasonable argument that I've seen that Kelly is WRONG in not doing it.

So, I'm asking -- WHERE'S THE HARM other than that Kelly's not deferring may be disconcerting to you. That it's an ongoing CRITICAL ERROR on his part I don't see evidence of. Perhaps because there isn't any, and it's just something you don't like.

As for me, I don't see it as seminal. But if I'm wrong and there's a concrete negative correlation out there, bring it on, and I'll be the first to recalibrate.

I have not claimed harm. Stop looking for something not there. Looks like you've opined a whole lot more but I read that first false accusation and I'm posting this. Don't lie. It's still a pet peeve. Many coaches at all levels agree with my view. Let it go.

 

[mirer03]

Poor take. Kid deserves a shot. He bailed us out against Wisco and outside of some drops and poor coaching, he might have beat CIN even with the little time he had. I hope he transfers, deserves better than what this joke of a coaching staff can give him.

I just want to again point out... You want to take a kid that is a 50% passer with two tes over one that is 62% with 10 tds... And your reasoning is that he's sacked less.

You also seem to ignore the fact that he apparent struggled mightily getting the plays in and the players in the right position... But I mean... He did get sacked less....

 

[mirer03]

And this is a laughable reaction to that analysis. We don't see Pyne in practice but we have seen him in games. If BK didn't want people clamoring for the backup in this instance maybe he shouldn't have put Pyne in against Wiscy and Cinci so that we couldn't see him executing scoring drives and outperforming Coan. Coan's issues have mostly been a product of his skillset not jiving with a poor OL, and that's mostly not his fault - but some of it has been.

And you left out 2 other advantages Pyne has shown over Coan - he has a quicker release and appears to handle pressure situations better. Those 2 things, along with his running ability, have been the reasons the offense has been more efficient when he's in there.

Coan and the offense were anemic in the 1st quarter. We were seeing pretty much the same things we've been seeing the last few games. Without the switch to Buchner, we likely would have lost. But then when Buchner struggled in the 2nd half, if we didn't switch back to Coan we also probably would have lost (Buchner's injury certainly helped prompt that decision). So credit BK and staff for making some of the necessary changes to facilitate the win.

But make no mistake - BK was full of crap when he said he was committed to not playing the flavor of the week the rest of the way. He played the flavor of the moment within one game as long as one of those flavors didn't include Pyne... and it worked out. But anyone who has been watching this offense over the last several weeks has to wonder, would the offense have been as anemic to start the game if Pyne had started? Would there have been as many ups and downs within the game?

Pyne hasn't been lights out this season, but he had been more efficient at running the offense during the significant parts of games when we've seen him. He certainly has done enough to warrant more consideration than what he got yesterday.

But hey, we won. My and other fans' and analysts' complaints won't amount to anything.

But I will end with this. Coan and the offense clicked once we were forced to go uptempo and run a more wide-open offense. The same thing happened at the end of the Toledo game. Spreading out and using tempo seems to help Coan tremendously. Hopefully, we will see a lot more of that. BK and Rees need to, once and for all, commit to calling games to cater to each QB's strengths rather than forcing them to do what they want them to do.

And a real long analysis that again ignores... You want to remove a 62% passer for a 50% passer just because he takes less sacks, rather than you know prevent the sacks from happening.

 

[mirer03]

Pyne may have been 9 for 22 against Cincinnati, but our receivers dropped at least 4 passes, including one by Kevin Austin that may well have cost us the game. Pyne has been way better than either Coan or Buchner in the two games he has played, and I think the team responds to him better. I have been watching college and professional football for more than 60 years, and I know what my eyes saw. Maybe there is stuff that goes on at practice that has caused Kelly not to trust Pyne, but based on what Pyne has done this year during actual game time, he has been our best QB by a wide margin. I don't understand why Kelly won't play him more. But I guess it's the old adage, once the head coach starts listening to the fans, he might find himself sitting with them.

1. He's a 50% passer
2. He's not getting the plays in and the guys aligned correctly.

That's it. That's why he is and will remain a backup. Deservedly so.

 

[mirer03]

This is a great point. I attended the FL State and Toledo games. On each first series we came out with no huddle and quick up tempo play. Coan and the OFF Line looked great. On both drives the defense was not able to get set or rush Coan. The office was very smooth and scored on both drives. After these drives at both games we stopped the up temp and went back to the slow, snap the ball with 5 seconds on the play clock type of offense. It just did not make scene. We did see the up tempo again at the end of the FL Sate and last week against V Tech at the end.

I am clearly not a coach but why can't our coaches figure this out. When we run up tempo, the defense can't pressure Coan as much and stop us. We could run the office all game long and be blowing people out. It just does not make sense..

It's not the tempo, it's the alignment. They came out scripted in a spread with tes and even rbs going out in routes. The spread negates a pass rush and alleviates some pessure when wideouts can't get off press coverage.

We need more spread. Don't care about tempo. Fyi same alignment is used in two minute drills where coan thrives.

My opinion dump the 13 alignment and spread it out.

 

[Patrirish]

I was at the game. I saw with my own eyes

Just show us one time

Great, then you should have no problem providing the quarter and time when you witnessed Coan throwing a Hail Mary toward the end zone.

I’ve asked you half a dozen times and you’ve failed to cite the play in the FSU game and you’ve failed to cite the game, quarter and clock time for the other Hail Mary you claimEd.

You‘re a fraud !

You make allegations and when asked to substantiate them, you can’t.

That’s about as intellectually dishonest as you can get.

You’re a fraud !

 

[Patrirish]

4-4-3 & Weisnheimer,

i don‘t know that there’s a conclusive answer, but when I saw the statistic about how few times we scored in the first quarter it caused me to question the continuation of the strategy.

Clearly, the first quarter hasn’t produced scoring of any significance.

So my question would be: How much first quarter scoring did our opponents get.

Armed with that data I would be in a better position to take a position.

But with such low scoring in the First quarter, what’s the downside to deferring to the second half ?

 

[4-4-3]

I have not claimed harm. Stop looking for something not there. Looks like you've opined a whole lot more but I read that first false accusation and I'm posting this. Don't lie. It's still a pet peeve. Many coaches at all levels agree with my view. Let it go.

This is not mine to let go. Again, if you're not implying harm, then WHAT IS THE ISSUE other than some alleged foot-fault that you find irritating? This is a NOTHING-BURGER complaint against Kelly that you can't substantiate as having any negative effect on ND football.

So, you're the one who needs to let go. OR bring a fact-based argument to back up your thesis. I'm no Kelly apologist -- far from it -- but I'll stack his 99 percentile winning percentage against your 95 percentile deferral cohort because what matters is that Kelly's won about 275 games, regardless of whether he's elected to receive or kick off.

And that includes almost 73% of his games at ND while wearing perhaps the tightest recruiting handcuffs fitted to the wrists of any major program coach out there.

Why yell fire when there isn't even smoke? There's nothing to find fault with here.

 

[VTND]

I just want to again point out... You want to take a kid that is a 50% passer with two tes over one that is 62% with 10 tds... And your reasoning is that he's sacked less.

You also seem to ignore the fact that he apparent struggled mightily getting the plays in and the players in the right position... But I mean... He did get sacked less....

Completion percentage doesn’t mean s*** if you are not putting points on the board. Again bud, you can’t use stats when one guy has 3x the amount of snaps the other two have. Coan is a statue and should be relegated to the bench while the two young guys get reps. Let’s also ignore the fact Coan has 3 years on the other two and doesn’t look that much better then either of the young guys.

 

[Golson5]

And a real long analysis that again ignores... You want to remove a 62% passer for a 50% passer just because he takes less sacks, rather than you know prevent the sacks from happening.

Who cares who is 50 percent and who is 62. How does the offense perform when each is in the game.

Coan has been really bad since the Wisconsin game.

He scored 0 points in the first half vs Cincy and got benched

He scored 0 in the 1 st quarter agai st VT. Then 11 in the 4th

Thats 11 points in his last 4 quarters of play.

Buchner scored 21 in 2.5 quarters. The run game is improved majorly as well. We all know he has more potential and ia the future. Of course Buchner should be playing more

 

[Golson5]

1. He's a 50% passer
2. He's not getting the plays in and the guys aligned correctly.

That's it. That's why he is and will remain a backup. Deservedly so.

Why did Coan score 0 and Buchner cane in and scored 21 then?

 

[Golson5]

Great, then you should have no problem providing the quarter and time when you witnessed Coan throwing a Hail Mary toward the end zone.

I’ve asked you half a dozen times and you’ve failed to cite the play in the FSU game and you’ve failed to cite the game, quarter and clock time for the other Hail Mary you claimEd.

You‘re a fraud !

You make allegations and when asked to substantiate them, you can’t.

That’s about as intellectually dishonest as you can get.

You’re a fraud !

Ive asked a dozen times at least and asked nicely first, show me where he throws a ball more than 50 yards.

Stop avoiding the question, prove it. I xould care less about the hail mary and when it was and what quarter and what yard line. You figure it out. I was there

So I'll wait for one throw over 50 yards, thank you

Oh and cite the game, the yard line, the play clock, the quarter, the hash mark and the receiver and defender....any thing else

You're such a moron

 

[NCDomer1]

With Clarke hitting the portal Pyne has to realize mo matter what he is one play away from playing as a worse case scenario.

 

[Golson5]

With Clarke hitting the portal Pyne has to realize mo matter what he is one play away from playing as a worse case scenario.

Hes not going anywhere

 

[Patrirish]

Ive asked a dozen times at least and asked nicely first, show me where he throws a ball more than 50 yards.

Stop avoiding the question, prove it. I xould care less about the hail mary and when it was and what quarter and what yard line. You figure it out. I was there

So I'll wait for one throw over 50 yards, thank you

Oh and cite the game, the yard line, the play clock, the quarter, the hash mark and the receiver and defender....any thing else

You're such a moron

I just reviewed the “Play by Play“ transcript of the FSU game and guess what ?

There was no Hail Mary pass by Coan in that game.

You lied about witnessing a Hail Mary pass, that’s why you could never cite the quarter and the clock !

You’re a fraud.

You’ve also failed to cite the game, quarter and clock of the second Hail Mary you alleged.

You’re a fraud.

As to Coan throwing for over 50 yards, he hasn’t been required to throw for over 50 yards !

No play has been called that required him to throw for over 50 yards.

But per your request I already cited the yard line, quarter, play clock and length of his throw to his receiver, which was on the money for close to 50 yards.

It‘s one thing to have an honest debate, it’s quite another to lie and fabricate events that never took place, like you did.

You’re a fraud !

Anyone who enters a debate with you should look upon everything you type with enlightened suspicion because you are not to be trusted.

You are intellectually dishonest.

You’re a fraud !

Better to be a moron than a liar and a fraud !

 

[tbonesays]

Buchner is a runner and that only increases the odds of injury.

Is it true at the college level? All of our pocket passer QBs seem to get hurt. I think Brady Quinn got hurt once. Clausen played hobbled. Dayne Crist, my dear.

 

[tbonesays]

Completion percentage doesn’t mean s*** if you are not putting points on the board. Again bud, you can’t use stats when one guy has 3x the amount of snaps the other two have. Coan is a statue and should be relegated to the bench while the two young guys get reps. Let’s also ignore the fact Coan has 3 years on the other two and doesn’t look that much better then either of the young guys.

It does wonders for team efficiency ranking. :Last time I checked we were 9th in defense and @69th in offense.

 

[Patrirish]

Is it true at the college level? All of our pocket passer QBs seem to get hurt. I think Brady Quinn got hurt once. Clausen played hobbled. Dayne Crist, my dear.

I believe that Crist was injured while running

 

[Patrirish]

Completion percentage doesn’t mean s*** if you are not putting points on the board. Again bud, you can’t use stats when one guy has 3x the amount of snaps the other two have. Coan is a statue and should be relegated to the bench while the two young guys get reps. Let’s also ignore the fact Coan has 3 years on the other two and doesn’t look that much better then either of the young guys.

CP is critical !

The higher the CP the less that the defense can stack against the run.

The higher the CP the more yards you gain

The higher the CP the higher your TOP

CP combined with YPA are critical metrics.

Have you ever heard of the term “pocket passer” ?

Have you ever heard of a QB named Tom Brady ?

Keep your day job !

 

[Weisnheimer]

This is not mine to let go. Again, if you're not implying harm, then WHAT IS THE ISSUE other than some alleged foot-fault that you find irritating? This is a NOTHING-BURGER complaint against Kelly that you can't substantiate as having any negative effect on ND football.

So, you're the one who needs to let go. OR bring a fact-based argument to back up your thesis. I'm no Kelly apologist -- far from it -- but I'll stack his 99 percentile winning percentage against your 95 percentile deferral cohort because what matters is that Kelly's won about 275 games, regardless of whether he's elected to receive or kick off.

And that includes almost 73% of his games at ND while wearing perhaps the tightest recruiting handcuffs fitted to the wrists of any major program coach out there.

Why yell fire when there isn't even smoke? There's nothing to find fault with here.

Pal, I get why you're obfuscating. You're old and you have nothing better to do.

 

[Golson5]

I just reviewed the “Play by Play“ transcript of the FSU game and guess what ?

There was no Hail Mary pass by Coan in that game.

You lied about witnessing a Hail Mary pass, that’s why you could never cite the quarter and the clock !

You’re a fraud.

You’ve also failed to cite the game, quarter and clock of the second Hail Mary you alleged.

You’re a fraud.

As to Coan throwing for over 50 yards, he hasn’t been required to throw for over 50 yards !

No play has been called that required him to throw for over 50 yards.

But per your request I already cited the yard line, quarter, play clock and length of his throw to his receiver, which was on the money for close to 50 yards.

It‘s one thing to have an honest debate, it’s quite another to lie and fabricate events that never took place, like you did.

You’re a fraud !

Anyone who enters a debate with you should look upon everything you type with enlightened suspicion because you are not to be trusted.

You are intellectually dishonest.

You’re a fraud !

Better to be a moron than a liar and a fraud !

You're full of it.

Since you're too lazy to do your own homework, check out the last play in the 4th quarter. If you knew when hail marys were thrown you couldve found it in 5 seconds

And yes you found one he throw for 48.

I asked show me one where he threw the ball over 50 yards.

I'll continue to wait.

Dope

 

[Golson5]

CP is critical !

The higher the CP the less that the defense can stack against the run.

The higher the CP the more yards you gain

The higher the CP the higher your TOP

CP combined with YPA are critical metrics.

Have you ever heard of the term “pocket passer” ?

Have you ever heard of a QB named Tom Brady ?

Keep your day job !

Moron

 

[mirer03]

Completion percentage doesn’t mean s*** if you are not putting points on the board. Again bud, you can’t use stats when one guy has 3x the amount of snaps the other two have. Coan is a statue and should be relegated to the bench while the two young guys get reps. Let’s also ignore the fact Coan has 3 years on the other two and doesn’t look that much better then either of the young guys.

With logic like that it is shocking you aren't coaching.

Pyne hasn't earned the right to start. You saw him run his preferred plays in a short window and move the ball against a defense that wasn't prepared for it. That is not an indication of future success, it's a by product of being a good in game backup...that gets to run his best practice plays against a defense that hasn't scouted him. Even in that small window, pyne had issues getting the calls in and alignments. Moreover he went 9-22 against cincy.

Nobody likes sacks, but you are basing your viewpoint on 20 minutes of playtime while dismissing hours of practice and factors such as what happens when a defense adjusts. Much like what happened to Buchner vs VA tech....second quarter running his preference playsheet he was dominant...the deeper into the playbook and post adjustment he struggled.

 

[4-4-3]

Pal, I get why you're obfuscating. You're old and you have nothing better to do.

And you have nothing substantive to say, regardless of your age.

You never made a coherent case.

Whiffed.

 

[Weisnheimer]

And you have nothing substantive to say, regardless of your age.

You never made a coherent case.

Whiffed.

Either the reasons I've given (about 3x) go right over your head, or you just have no comprehension skills. Actually, it's both. And you keep injecting baseball analogies/terms into your diatribe about football (two COMPLETELY different sports with COMPLETELY different rules) which thereby accentuates your inaccuracies into TWO sports.

Good Job, Ace.

 

[VTND]

With logic like that it is shocking you aren't coaching.

Pyne hasn't earned the right to start. You saw him run his preferred plays in a short window and move the ball against a defense that wasn't prepared for it. That is not an indication of future success, it's a by product of being a good in game backup...that gets to run his best practice plays against a defense that hasn't scouted him. Even in that small window, pyne had issues getting the calls in and alignments. Moreover he went 9-22 against cincy.

Nobody likes sacks, but you are basing your viewpoint on 20 minutes of playtime while dismissing hours of practice and factors such as what happens when a defense adjusts. Much like what happened to Buchner vs VA tech....second quarter running his preference playsheet he was dominant...the deeper into the playbook and post adjustment he struggled.

Your basing your stance off of assumptions. I'm basing my stance off of what I'm seeing in games.

"Pyne hasn't earned the right to start" - assumption based off of what? Practice you don't attend?

 

[Bumpdaddy]

And a real long analysis that again ignores... You want to remove a 62% passer for a 50% passer just because he takes less sacks, rather than you know prevent the sacks from happening.

Don't be like Pat, Mirer, by focusing on your one preferred stat and believing it tells the whole story. That 50% completion rate came in high-pressure situations against 2 of the best defenses in the country and the 2 best defenses we will see all year. His CR was also impacted by some key drops. And yet, in both games, the offense moved better with Pyne at the helm.

The rest of our schedule is filled with mostly poor pass-efficiency defenses the rest of the way. I'm sure Pyne would love to get a chance to feast on some of them and see his CR go up significantly, but that doesn't seem to be part of the plan. I don't think that's Pyne's fault but so what. BK calls the shots. I am now hoping the OL will continue to show the same type of improvement they showed in the VT game and that BK and Rees will run more up-tempo and spread with Coan since that seems to be the type of offense Coan feels most comfortable with.

 

[tbonesays]

I believe that Crist was injured while running

I believe Coan was too. The only mostly injury QB free I remember was the very mobile Ian Book. Predicting that we would miss his mobility is like predicting tension with China.

 

[Patrirish]

You're full of it.

Since you're too lazy to do your own homework, check out the last play in the 4th quarter. If you knew when hail marys were thrown you couldve found it in 5 seconds

And yes you found one he throw for 48.

I asked show me one where he threw the ball over 50 yards.

I'll continue to wait.

Dope

Coan threw the ball from his OWN 40, off his back foot while moving to his left, hardly an ideal position from which to throw a Hail Mary and it still traveled over 50 yards and was intercepted High in the air.

Why didn‘t you tell us he threw from his OWN 40 ?

I have no doubt that he can throw it 60 yards

 

[Patrirish]

Don't be like Pat, Mirer, by focusing on your one preferred stat and believing it tells the whole story. That 50% completion rate came in high-pressure situations against 2 of the best defenses in the country and the 2 best defenses we will see all year. His CR was also impacted by some key drops. And yet, in both games, the offense moved better with Pyne at the helm.

The rest of our schedule is filled with mostly poor pass-efficiency defenses the rest of the way. I'm sure Pyne would love to get a chance to feast on some of them and see his CR go up significantly, but that doesn't seem to be part of the plan. I don't think that's Pyne's fault but so what. BK calls the shots. I am now hoping the OL will continue to show the same type of improvement they showed in the VT game and that BK and Rees will run more up-tempo and spread with Coan since that seems to be the type of offense Coan feels most comfortable with.

Yeah, like Coan isn’t pressured by defenses.

Like Coan hasn’t had his passes dropped

Anyone who prefers a 50 % passer over a 62% passer is brain dead when it comes to football

didn’t Wimbush vs Book teach you anything ?

 

[Patrirish]

I believe Coan was too. The only mostly injury QB free I remember was the very mobile Ian Book. Predicting that we would miss his mobility is like predicting tension with China.

Book was injured while running against Northwestern.

Eventually, running QB’s get dinged !

 

[Bumpdaddy]

Anyone who prefers a 50 % passer over a 62% passer is brain dead when it comes to football

Not as brain dead as the guy who thinks that a limited-sample CR tells the whole story and is more important than scoring. Just think about how completely brain dead such a person must be.

 

[Golson5]

Coan threw the ball from his OWN 40, off his back foot while moving to his left, hardly an ideal position from which to throw a Hail Mary and it still traveled over 50 yards and was intercepted High in the air.

Why didn‘t you tell us he threw from his OWN 40 ?

I have no doubt that he can throw it 60 yards

You did all that research and couldnt find it, huh? Good job

And he threw that ball 49 yards in the air. We were trying to get it near the end zone but he wasnt anywhere close because his weak arm.

Now I showed my information that you requested, said wasnt true, called me a fraud, and said you went through the whole game and couldnt find it. Lying sack of ....

Now, Ill ask again, show me 1 throw Coan had this year that traveled over 50 yards in the air.

 

[4-4-3]

Either the reasons I've given (about 3x) go right over your head, or you just have no comprehension skills. Actually, it's both. And you keep injecting baseball analogies/terms into your diatribe about football (two COMPLETELY different sports with COMPLETELY different rules) which thereby accentuates your inaccuracies into TWO sports.

Good Job, Ace.

You never answered my simple question.

What concrete evidence is there that Kelly's not deferring has cost ND a thing?

You said it was a pet-peeve of yours. Well, if you don't have any evidence and yet you're arguing that it's a problem, it's actually more than a pet-peeve. It's an untested bias which then spreads as misinformation.

I don't care one way or the other. I'm just trying to keep discussions FACT-BASED. At least, the ones I wander into.

Don't you ever ask people to substantiate the claims they make? Hell, you asked me to! And I came back with something that was at least discussable, in an effort to back up my point.

And that's all I'm asking you to do. Or say, hey, I'm not doing it.

But, apparently, it's what you've been saying indirectly the whole time. I get it. You don't have anything.

 

[Patrirish]

Not as brain dead as the guy who thinks that a limited-sample CR tells the whole story and is more important than scoring. Just think about how completely brain dead such a person must be.

LIMITED SAMPLE ?

598 attempts with 397 completions for a 66.4 % CP is a “limited sample”

Again, 598 attempts, 397 completions for a CP of 66.4 %

Have someone who knows about football explain the significance of Coan’s extensive body of work to you