Losing out on Bowen and Keely does suck, but the flat out lies/sky is falling posts and threads about ND recruiting doesnt match reality. The last 2 years have been really good for ND. Alot to like.
Debunking the Recruiting Lies
- Thread starter raulduke_007
- Start date
If we are increasing the talent, we are getting closer
Edub72 says:
“You need a great QB and that will give you a chance. College Basketball is all about guard play. College Football is about quarterback play.”
Couldn’t agree more. Wish we didn’t need the portal for this, but QB development has been a big black mark for too long. I’m hoping for Buckner and our new commits.
“You need a great QB and that will give you a chance. College Basketball is all about guard play. College Football is about quarterback play.”
Couldn’t agree more. Wish we didn’t need the portal for this, but QB development has been a big black mark for too long. I’m hoping for Buckner and our new commits.
Yeah, we've just had our 2 highest recruiting classes since 2013. When you're consistently pulling in classes in the 10-15 range, hidden gems can push you into playoff contention. But when you bump up to the 7-9 range, hidden gems could make you a legit contender. I'd like to be the top recruiting team as much as everyone one, but short of that I'm at least happy to see us making measurable gains. Our class ranks in the past 10 years by 247's composite system:
’23 - 8
’22 - 7
’21 - 9
’20 - 18
’19 - 15
’18 - 10
’17 - 10
’16 - 15
’15 - 13
’14 - 11
’23 - 8
’22 - 7
’21 - 9
’20 - 18
’19 - 15
’18 - 10
’17 - 10
’16 - 15
’15 - 13
’14 - 11
So this basically shows Kelly was not as great of a recruiter as he claimed he was. Freeman on campus 2 years and back to back 80+% BCR. Coincidence? I think not. That is a very interesting statistic and a good way to show that the needle is tipping in a different direction than some would let on to believe. Numbers don't lie.
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This is all on Kelly in my opinion. I remember back when he started at ND he touted himself as a QB guru of sorts and he was obsessed with having control over that position. Over 11 years I think he showed us he was average to below average. I think the position looks brighter with Minchey/Carr. Let's hope Rees can avoid Kelly's pitfalls and develop these young men.
Careful, you‘re going to get the Kelly sock puppeteer club ripping a new hole where it doesn’t belong!
I question if you really need a great QB. Depending on how you define great. arguably Book was good enough.
Substitute excellent for great in my opinion.
Bottom line is if MF can keep this up the talent level at ND will be high enough to win it all
THEN it really comes down to coaching.
Substitute excellent for great in my opinion.
Bottom line is if MF can keep this up the talent level at ND will be high enough to win it all
THEN it really comes down to coaching.
everyone is a little bit correct and everyone is a little bit incorrect.
ND has solidified it’s position as a Top 12 team. But there are a group of 3-4 teams that have separated from the field; and they have done that in almost every recent class, they have not only elite talent but elite backups. Closing the gap on them is almost impossible for ND, but as a poster points out, the ‘brass ring’ is finding that hidden gem superstar at QB. A guy like Cam Newton, who can be the equalizer all by himself. That is the hope, and then there is ‘luck’ and the on ‘any given Saturday’ hope; these notions keep fans hooked.
ND has solidified it’s position as a Top 12 team. But there are a group of 3-4 teams that have separated from the field; and they have done that in almost every recent class, they have not only elite talent but elite backups. Closing the gap on them is almost impossible for ND, but as a poster points out, the ‘brass ring’ is finding that hidden gem superstar at QB. A guy like Cam Newton, who can be the equalizer all by himself. That is the hope, and then there is ‘luck’ and the on ‘any given Saturday’ hope; these notions keep fans hooked.
Is nobody going to point out the obvious here?
NOT ALL 4-STAR PLAYERS ARE EQUAL. The formula being used to calculate BCR% is missing out on this key fact. Which is why it's silly to use this metric. The 24/7 composite class score and class ranking give us the holistic view we're looking for. That view is below:
247 composite class ranking, class score by year:
2023: 8th, 279.94 - Freeman's 1st full class
2022: 7th, 275.44 - Freeman hired as DC
2021: 9th, 270.65
2020: 18th, 251.28
2019: 15th, 258.56
2018: 10th, 268.86
2017: 10th, 251.32
2016: 15th, 249.43
2015: 13th, 267.79
There has definitely been an uptick in the quality of talent coming into ND over the last ~3 years, but it's more of a nice bump then the kinds of classes needed to really start to close the talent gap between ND and the tier 1 schools dominating the talent pool every year.
ND needs to find a way to start getting some wins/advantages over the tier 1 on the recruiting trail or they will always be on the outside looking in with little to no chance to actually compete with those schools. Only on an ND message board would this sentence even remotely be considered controversial.
NOT ALL 4-STAR PLAYERS ARE EQUAL. The formula being used to calculate BCR% is missing out on this key fact. Which is why it's silly to use this metric. The 24/7 composite class score and class ranking give us the holistic view we're looking for. That view is below:
247 composite class ranking, class score by year:
2023: 8th, 279.94 - Freeman's 1st full class
2022: 7th, 275.44 - Freeman hired as DC
2021: 9th, 270.65
2020: 18th, 251.28
2019: 15th, 258.56
2018: 10th, 268.86
2017: 10th, 251.32
2016: 15th, 249.43
2015: 13th, 267.79
There has definitely been an uptick in the quality of talent coming into ND over the last ~3 years, but it's more of a nice bump then the kinds of classes needed to really start to close the talent gap between ND and the tier 1 schools dominating the talent pool every year.
ND needs to find a way to start getting some wins/advantages over the tier 1 on the recruiting trail or they will always be on the outside looking in with little to no chance to actually compete with those schools. Only on an ND message board would this sentence even remotely be considered controversial.
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This is assuming other teams remain flat or get worse and that's not the case. Georgia and alabama are increasing their talent even more at a faster rate, same with USC.
And they have better coaching staffs
Are we going to be more talented in 24 than 21. I would say yes, but so will alabama and georgia and clemson and usc and ohio state and texas and LSU. Some of these teams with recruiting and portal are improving talent faster than ND.
I also want to point out that anytime there's a new coach at a big brand blue blood school like ND, USC, OSU, Alabama, etc. there's ALWAYS an initial recruiting rankings bump because of all the new hype/coverage surrounding the new coach and program. This bump fades out pretty quickly after that first season though. I really hope Freeman can buck the odds, and that 2023 is more of Freeman's floor than his ceiling as a recruiter going forward.
I'm confident freeman can recruit if he can coach. If ND goes 10-2 or better (should be much easier with hartman at QB all year if we land him) then I think recruiting will continue to improve. Can't screw up another season losing to 2 bad teams.
Oh you didn't know? Get Nasty can evaluate talent and teams like no other. I'm surprised no one has hired him yet. Someone should really let Freeman know before he loses him to another program.
we just went 8-4, we lost ALL of our top recruits (3 5* and our most electric offensive recruit since maybe julius jones) , and we MAY land one really good portal player. Where the F is the gap closing? This class would be closing the gap 5-10 years ago, but with the way we are not hitting portal as good and paying players upfront. Someone explain how the gap is closing.
I like this class, but i'm also realistic that how the environment of college football is, teams are increasing their talent faster than ND. We're losing out on portal players that really like ND but can't because of undergrad transfer issues and or ND not giving upfront $$$$, and same thing with top recruits that really like and want to go to ND but the guarantee elsewhere is hard to pass up.
If you become a top player at ND you will have huge $$$ opportunities, but if you are a top recruit that doesn't pan out, you won't make anything.
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If everything else is perfect then someone like Book could be good enough, but winning back-to-back games in the playoffs is going to be tough especially since probably at least one of those teams will have a difference making quarterback.
The uptick in recruitment is a positive for sure, but we were also so close to a difference making class with players like Keeley, Moore, and Bowen.
The other thing now in play is the portal. If we have a slight but measurable uptick in recruiting but are falling behind in the portal, then the recruiting gains get neutralized, although it will be interesting to see what percentage of our blue chip recruits we hold onto through the years and not lose to the portal; if we are keeping our blue chip recruits at a higher rate than other schools are, then we are somewhat compensating for not getting as many players through the transfer portal. Then again, many of these players that come through the transfer portal are proven commodities whereas some of the blue chip recruits don’t pan out.
The other thing now in play is the portal. If we have a slight but measurable uptick in recruiting but are falling behind in the portal, then the recruiting gains get neutralized, although it will be interesting to see what percentage of our blue chip recruits we hold onto through the years and not lose to the portal; if we are keeping our blue chip recruits at a higher rate than other schools are, then we are somewhat compensating for not getting as many players through the transfer portal. Then again, many of these players that come through the transfer portal are proven commodities whereas some of the blue chip recruits don’t pan out.
Agree except weeds out players every year no matter their rating, so they can keep bringing in 25-30 per class.
If ND holds onto players even if they aren't good, that hurts future recruiting numbers
where in any aspect of life or society do you still observe commitment or integrity? are you one of the sleeping Sheeple?
wake up!
That's probably why ND so badly oversigned, because of course if they lose a bunch of guys to the portal, then they're stuck with only 75 players, because they really can't make up for it with a bunch of transfers. Or at least not easily. But if they don't naturally or organically lose enough players to the transfer portal as a matter of course, which is a pure crapshoot and they might not lose any, then they're in the position of having to deliberately cut players from the roster to make it to 85. And they gotta start processing..... Just like the SEC!!
Which is where they find themselves now. So every year it could easily be Russian roulette with the roster. ND oversigns by quite a bit, mainly with HS guys, waits/hopes for players to transfer on their own, and then cuts the roster down and processes enough players as needed to get down to 85. Don't know how sustainable that routine is going to be.
Which is where they find themselves now. So every year it could easily be Russian roulette with the roster. ND oversigns by quite a bit, mainly with HS guys, waits/hopes for players to transfer on their own, and then cuts the roster down and processes enough players as needed to get down to 85. Don't know how sustainable that routine is going to be.
This. Recruiting is only part of the puzzle now. The Portal is a huge component to building a contender. So, with WR Smith, Mason's two special team guys, and if we sign Hartman (and perhaps bring in a safety and rush lineman) we make a big move forward.
coaches can leave players can leave, there is no more commitment in college sports
All valid points, but until the administration backs off of the current restrictions it will be what it is for a long time just look at who has won the last five national championships. The s hools who have the best recruting classes. ND just lost out on a much needed DL man who lives 40 miles from campus because of the NIL situation at what point in time does MF do the same thing that BK did being he has to work twice as hard to pull in top classes. If he was on the same playing field as everybody else, maybe, we keep the 5 stars and get a few more in the fold.
So what does ND do when the numbers exceed the 85 limit and no other players want to leave?
Notre Dame is an academic institution, not a minor league franchise of the NFL. Maybe it is more important to recruit kids that can flourish academically at ND than it is to "back off the current restrictions."
Michigan had 3 transfer players in 2022. 1 4-star and 2 3 star
For 2023 they have 7 transfers which has zero to do with their record the last 2 years. At least look it up first.
They weren’t even in the top
10 portalwise I think you’re mistaking them for USC.
The reality is ND's biggest issue isn't guys leaving------- in many cases it's guys staying.
At many high end programs if the staff determines a kid can't play for them after being around for 2 years they cut him loose . We don't do that . Furthermore by the time you get into your 3rd year at ND you've figured out how valuable that degree is. Add on to it that you're a Notre Dame Football player that's a helluva network nationwide. You would be crazy to leave unless you're going somewhere as well thought of academically.
Top center on the top oline is from the portal…. Maybe have a clue about what you’re talking about before posting
