My point is points 9 and 10 aren't necessary at all because they invite evaluator bias and laziness and because they do that it would be really difficult to determine how significant or negligible the overall ranking bias is.
2020 Recruiting Update
- Thread starter IrishInOntario
- Start date
Well yeah, we see one everytime Brian Kelly coaches in a big bowl game.
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They aren't necessary, I agree. But part of the recruiting business model's success has been their relative accuracy over time. #9 and #10 help them hedge their bets, so that they can go back years later and say "look, we were right"... It's still a business, where you have to weigh both accuracy and risk. They're willing to hedge, without discrediting the rest of their ranking criteria.
Like I always say... Two things can be true at the same time.
1. The macro level recruiting rankings can be relatively accurate through conventional means of evaluation.
2. Hedging your bets by adjusting down the stretch to reflect who gives you the greatest chance of being right, is also a good business strategy.
Could you imagine if Vegas set a betting line and refused to move it as the money started coming in?
Damn.
Well that’s depressing. Maybe I should tell Jay to try another sport? ♂️
Everyone has their own opinions. Some more harsh than others. Tell Jay to ignore it and keep working hard. It’s done him well thus far.
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It’s all good and fun. Jay would have one single reply....
Nd just had an undefeated regular season and is recruiting QB really well. Expectations are we should be getting elite WRs. Jay clearly did enough to impress Nd coaches but I feel it’s more to do with Nd missing on many targets and having to go to plan 7 or 8. Hope I’m wrong and he’s a stud. His film doesn’t show it.
You aren’t the first to doubt him and you won’t be the last. Frankly, he likes it that way.
He would just shrug his shoulders and say...
This forum was built for people to share their opinions. I think it is great. I’m not on here to defend him. He’ll do that on his own.
You aren’t the first to doubt him and you won’t be the last. Frankly, he likes it that way.
He would just shrug his shoulders and say...
This forum was built for people to share their opinions. I think it is great. I’m not on here to defend him. He’ll do that on his own.
Love his physicality and work ethic. Very much cheering for the kid and I hope all of his intangibles help him overcome being a half step slow (IMO). I think he high points the ball exceptionally well and has strong hands. Really hoping Matt Balis can help loosen up his hips a little bit over the next 4 years so that he becomes a little bit more "functionally fast".
Always love a kid with a chip on his shoulder. Hope he develops into a great security blanket for whichever ND quarterback winds up throwing him the ball.
Best of luck to Jay!
You aren’t the first to doubt him and you won’t be the last. Frankly, he likes it that way.
He would just shrug his shoulders and say...
This forum was built for people to share their opinions. I think it is great. I’m not on here to defend him. He’ll do that on his own.
If you have read through this thread you will probably notice I’m a fan of Jay’s & 100% disagree with the poster you were replying to.
I’ve talked to multiple people on the Premium site who have seen Jay in person, including at ND, & they are sold. And they wouldn’t BS it. If they don’t like somebody they will make it clear they don’t. So far I’ve seen Jay’s name brought up multiple times as an underrated kid that will surprise everybody.
To me it's a matter if competition. I could see Brunnelle being a really good player, or I could see him never playing a big role at ND. Depends on what happens with guys he's competing against like Kevin Austin Jr, Jordan Johnson, Xavier Watts and, hopefully, Christian Dixon or Beaux Collins, etc...
Did enough to impress Michigan coaches because they offered him too.
would love to get Christian Dixon also but he has to be at the top of the board or near the top for all or most pac 12 schools at WR and so I'm thinking how tough it could be getting him off the west coast
Right now ND probably leads for him. He loves ND, so there is a good chance. Pounding USC again this year can only help.
So there is lots of talk about Jay’s inability to gain separation. That is a fair point at times. However, lack of separation isn’t always about speed. Although everyone would love to be faster, I wouldn’t say his speed, or “functional speed” is a weakness at all. Virtually every college coach has loved his speed. That being said, Jay would be the first to tell you that his route running needs the most work. He has always gotten away with basically just running and he just has not developed the finer aspects of route running. I don’t think you can really develop those skills until you get reps against top d-backs over and over. He just hasn’t had access to those reps until this spring at various combines and camps. So when people on this board talk about how you can’t teach him speed, I say no problem. However, I’m quite sure a player can learn to run better routes.
I'm just reading this post now.
I don't think system fit is part of the rankings for this very reason. Recruits are ranked based on their tangibles and intangibles it would be silly to bump up a player based on how well he fits a certain system. most of the rankings come out before recruits make their commitment and most don't change all that much over the recruiting cycle.
if anybody is claiming that system fit is part of the evaluations they're going to need to cite a source for sure.
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Rees is probably the most underrated player to suit up for Notre Dame in the 21st century and I can't think of a close second really. and any question marks about Ian book at this point should be strictly regarding just how good he might be. He's already established that he's a starting-caliber quarterback on an upper echelon team (at the very least) and if you can't see that then you need to get me in contact with whoever you buy your weed from.
And also in response to iio
Theres way too much competition in this industry for sites to get away with doing shoddy work and credibility in this industry is everything.
Also 247 now includes ranking history timelines in player profiles for this very reason.
Any connection between players getting a bump or a reduction in their ratings based on their commitment is likely coincidental and driven more by bad work and laziness on part of the analysts and less about any type of manipulative marketing practices
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Thanks for the personal anecdotes and insight it is very much appreciated and welcomed here
I don’t think it’s speed, I think it’s more quickness and agility lacking. Running a straight line with no disruption is one thing creating separation against man is another. See Boykin, he played somewhat slow but dominated the combine.
I'm terrible at evaluating players on film it's just something I don't have an eye for but I can certainly respect the opinions of people who do it well.
this is my long-winded way of saying thanks for sharing your opinion/ocular analysis and I hope you do it more often
I also disagree with your example of Miles boykin though. There's some guy on YouTube who does scouting reports on players using their game film who claims to be a scout who thinks boykin separation was very underrated and thinks he'll project well to the NFL I posted the video in the past but I dont have a good connection right now to share the video
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That video did a terrible job of showing separation. It kept showing plays where the defender slipped.
“Rees is probably the most underrated player to suit up for Notre Dame in the 21st century and I can't think of a close second really. and any question marks about Ian book at this point should be strictly regarding just how good he might be. He's already established that he's a starting-caliber quarterback on an upper echelon team (at the very least) and if you can't see that then you need to get me in contact with whoever you buy your weed from”
Can’t agree w/ the first part, rees held a loaded offensive team back, IMO, but I agree w/ the 2nd part. Book hasn’t even started a full season yet. He’ll get better and if he doesn’t, he’s still as good as we’ve had in a while.
Can’t agree w/ the first part, rees held a loaded offensive team back, IMO, but I agree w/ the 2nd part. Book hasn’t even started a full season yet. He’ll get better and if he doesn’t, he’s still as good as we’ve had in a while.
Boykin made great plays at times no doubt, most were back shoulder throws with no separation see LSU winner. He also almost never high pointed a ball.
Wish he came back but he isn’t a huge loss in my opinion.
7 or 8? Being a dick just to be a dick is fun so I get it but like you are just wrong.
You really think Jay was top 5 WR prospect on Nd's board? Use a little intelligence before you post.
ND got 2 of their top 4. When you are filling 3-4 spots to say you are on plan 7 or 8 would suggest you are somewhere in the 20s with your board.
They absolutely did NOT get 2 of their top 4. They got 1 of their top 5, then were probably in the 10-15 range and 15-20 range for the other two, maybe even higher than 15-20 for jay on their original board.
I can't even comprehend how you feel the staff thought their second WR landed was one of the top 4 wrs they were recruiting from the beginning of the process.
ND offered and or was recruiting Fleming, johnny wilson, demas, scott jr, mcmillan, etc. Now were some unrealistic to land, yes, but some on the list were realistic and visited, were recruited for sure. Honestly don't think watts was on the top 10 original list and I don't think Jay was on the top 20 original list. Things change no doubt, but lets not pretend like we got exactly who we wanted.
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Even if you are entirely wrong because none of us will ever really know the truth about this type of information I just got to say it is so F'ing refreshing reading some analysis about our recruiting that actually considers the possibility that prospects are turning away Notre Dame and that ND are not getting all the targets that they want and in many cases having to settle for last minute emergency takes and guys who weren't even in their original plan. this type of criticism isn't even considered in any analysis anywhere regarding Notre Dame's recruiting which is mind blowing to me
to add to my last post it is almost like there's this sentiment among the Notre Dame fan base that we choose to be the 14th ranked class on national signing day it isn't because we fail to hit on our top targets but we just happen to like all the guys that the services didn't like as much so we choose to be ranked 13 spots behind everybody else on national signing day..... in a format where only four teams go to the playoffs 
Am I the only poster that sees that this view lacks any logic whatsoever and that it is really obvious that Notre Dame is missing out on a lot of their top targets which is why they're recruiting in the teens and not among the top national title contending programs in the country?
Am I the only poster that sees that this view lacks any logic whatsoever and that it is really obvious that Notre Dame is missing out on a lot of their top targets which is why they're recruiting in the teens and not among the top national title contending programs in the country?
Because the 'original plan' is basically the top rated players at that position?
Boykin having a great camp with Ravens.
It's early but he lit up their intrasquad scrimmage Saturday night.
I for one wish he was here.
Not every year for every position, but this year the top wr talent were recruited by ND, for how long and how hard I don’t know.
Don’t confuse every player that visits as being a real prospect. Recruits visit schools all the time just to market themselves on social media, especially at places like Notre Dame. When push comes to shove, only the ones that truly value education will go to ND. Lots of students say that education is important to them but then choose schools with much lower educational programs and/or expectations. Those kids were never going to choose the harder path, regardless of the effectiveness of the recruiting process.
Agree 100%, my point was when evaluating prospects early on watts was not in NDs top 4 of prospects. After months and months of recruiting, players committing else where, weeding out players that aren't a good fit etc, he was probably in a top 4 of realistic options a few months ago, but again, that's after a long recruiting process, not at the very beginning.
This is probably bigger news for the lacrosse team, but this kid is a pure athlete and I could see him (after a few years in the weight room) being a contributor somewhere because of his speed.
Arline is the #5 overall 2020 prospect per Inside Lacrosse....Currently, he is a verbal commit to UNC.
Arline is the #5 overall 2020 prospect per Inside Lacrosse....Currently, he is a verbal commit to UNC.
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