With time to calm down and be less emotional,

[Telx1]

I still want BK to fire BVG today! BK has to know he made a poor decision hiring BVG, and an even poorer decision sticking with him. Accountability is important and an important lesson for young men and women to learn, and Kelly needs to hold BVG to account. In-season firings are hard, but I can't see any downside in this instance. Any hope of making the playoffs is dead, and any hope for a 10-2 season is as well. Keeping a lame duck BVG on the sidelines is a recipe for disaster, as it does nothing to help prepare the returning players for next season, and it arguably spells disaster for this recruiting class. If Kelly continues to stick with BVG, then Swarbuck needs to hold Kelly to account.

 

[88ND]

While I'd like to see BK dismissed as well...I'll take firing BVG for starters.

BVG having any association with our university from this point on is ONLY having a negative impact.

And you damn well better believe it impacts recruiting in both sides of the ball...
BIG TIME

 

[cgvr]

I still want BK to fire BVG today! BK has to know he made a poor decision hiring BVG, and an even poorer decision sticking with him. Accountability is important and an important lesson for young men and women to learn, and Kelly needs to hold BVG to account. In-season firings are hard, but I can't see any downside in this instance. Any hope of making the playoffs is dead, and any hope for a 10-2 season is as well. Keeping a lame duck BVG on the sidelines is a recipe for disaster, as it does nothing to help prepare the returning players for next season, and it arguably spells disaster for this recruiting class. If Kelly continues to stick with BVG, then Swarbuck needs to hold Kelly to account.

....and if he doesn't is that further proof that he is a moron? Not that we need anymore.....he is darn good at adding fuel to that fire..

 

[Sarah_Plain_And_Tall]

Kelly is still backing BVG.

 

[Telx1]

Kelly is still backing BVG.

I just read his defense of BVG. Hope like hell he simply doesn't want to hang BVG out publicly while having private discussions about his departure, but I fear he has no plans for coaching changes during the season. Loyal or insane?

 

[Telx1]

Ara, been supportive of Kelly and appreciative of his positive program impact on many levels. But, the horrific play of our defense under BVG is irrefutable, and I can't begin to understand Kelly's defense of BVG. We all make risk vs reward decisions daily in our personal and professional lives, and the risks of sticking with BVG for the rest of this season seems to far outweigh the rewards. As you say, unbelievable.

 

[captstabbin]

Total insanity Telx. He wants to go down with his college buddy then so be it. I've been Coach Kelly's biggest supporter from day 1. He's always done what's best for the team but is backing VanGorder the right move? We shall see. You can wreck a lot of good work with an 8-5 or 7-6 record in year seven. Next year Coach Kelly could be coaching for his job. Unbelievable!

What I don't get is some posters today seem ecstatic with last night's performance. I ignored two today that I thought I never would. How can a true ND fan revel in such a miserable loss? You and Bodi better keep posting. I'm running out of reasons to stay here. This is crazier than 2008.

They are not fans Ara....they are trolls posing as fans..and acting without the character their parents never taught them. They call fans that stand behind their teams cockroaches. They are the elite of ignorance. They deserve our pitty.

 

[CancunLive]

Man, you guys have really turned on Van Gorder -- everyone was fully on board with him a few years ago.

Appears more to me that the defensive talent level is way down from where it was.

 

[zonairish]

Man, you guys have really turned on Van Gorder -- everyone was fully on board with him a few years ago.

Appears more to me that the defensive talent level is way down from where it was.

Agree with you! Fan bases are fickle. Some of these fans would hate Saban if he were the coach here and pontificate that it was bad hire. That said I think BVG has run his course here.

 

[Telx1]

Ara, some here are in fact ecstatic, and enjoy watching the fan base melt down and turn on Kelly, etc... I think the vast majority are simply frustrated by the poor quality of play, and frustrated as we are by Kelly's public blind eye to BVG's negative impact, and they are giving voice to their emotions. Suggest you give a few days and then unignore the two you reference and see if the tone and content hasn't changed more to what you've come to expect from them. And by all means, please keep dropping by and posting!

 

[cgvr]

Total insanity Telx. He wants to go down with his college buddy then so be it. I've been Coach Kelly's biggest supporter from day 1. He's always done what's best for the team but is backing VanGorder the right move? We shall see. You can wreck a lot of good work with an 8-5 or 7-6 record in year seven. Next year Coach Kelly could be coaching for his job. Unbelievable!

What I don't get is some posters today seem ecstatic with last night's performance. I ignored two today that I thought I never would. How can a true ND fan revel in such a miserable loss? You and Bodi better keep posting. I'm running out of reasons to stay here. This is crazier than 2008.

You haven't been a supporter. You've been an ignorant and pompous shill for porky. Yeah, you were so miserable about the Texas loss you took it upon yourself to head to their board and act like some sort of ND spokesperson...."Mr Gracious Loser"... You're the typical arrogant subway alum that gives my Alma Mater a bad name ditto argus, bodi, towel boy, pennick....

"I'm running out of reasons to stay here." Wonderful! Talk about addition by subtraction.

Before you leave can you rehash the story of how Ara was your surrogate dad.... ? Please, pretty please...

 

[Sarah_Plain_And_Tall]

Total insanity Telx. He wants to go down with his college buddy then so be it. I've been Coach Kelly's biggest supporter from day 1. He's always done what's best for the team but is backing VanGorder the right move? We shall see. You can wreck a lot of good work with an 8-5 or 7-6 record in year seven. Next year Coach Kelly could be coaching for his job. Unbelievable!

What I don't get is some posters today seem ecstatic with last night's performance. I ignored two today that I thought I never would. How can a true ND fan revel in such a miserable loss? You and Bodi better keep posting. I'm running out of reasons to stay here. This is crazier than 2008.

It is not like posters are happy with the loss. But to be humiliated in the fashion gets us angry so with another season of no playoffs and meaningful bowl game, we want Kelly gone. It feels like 2008 again because that is where we are heading under this coach.

 

[Java65]

Total insanity Telx. He wants to go down with his college buddy then so be it. I've been Coach Kelly's biggest supporter from day 1. He's always done what's best for the team but is backing VanGorder the right move? We shall see. You can wreck a lot of good work with an 8-5 or 7-6 record in year seven. Next year Coach Kelly could be coaching for his job. Unbelievable!

What I don't get is some posters today seem ecstatic with last night's performance. I ignored two today that I thought I never would. How can a true ND fan revel in such a miserable loss? You and Bodi better keep posting. I'm running out of reasons to stay here. This is crazier than 2008.

I for one am not ecstatic about it but I don think people are frustrated. They are watching ND become comfortable with mediocrity and I think many feel that the only way ND will change is for them to have a terrible season.

Personally, I would rather have one horrific season to force change than to look back in 20 years and realize ND has become Army.

 

[Java65]

Let's forget the MSU debacle and look at the coaching situation objectively. It is a demanding, grinding job that really takes its toll on the coach. This is Kelly's 7th season which is longer than any ND coach save those that were infinitely more successful and popular; Lou, Ara, Leahy (if you count both stints) all made it 11 year and the only other coach to make it past 5 was Devine and while he wasn't popular he did win a NC.

Let's be honest does anybody think that due to the weight of this job that Kelly is going to get near 11 years when he's nowhere near as popular as those guy above. Does anyone think that the pressures of being ND coach aren't already taking it's toll and it's probably going to be downhill from here on out?

Like I said 7 years is a looooooong time as ND coach and I think its time Jack considers making the change before we have a couple Weis like seasons.

 

[Irishjohn68]

Total insanity Telx. He wants to go down with his college buddy then so be it. I've been Coach Kelly's biggest supporter from day 1. He's always done what's best for the team but is backing VanGorder the right move? We shall see. You can wreck a lot of good work with an 8-5 or 7-6 record in year seven. Next year Coach Kelly could be coaching for his job. Unbelievable!

What I don't get is some posters today seem ecstatic with last night's performance. I ignored two today that I thought I never would. How can a true ND fan revel in such a miserable loss? You and Bodi better keep posting. I'm running out of reasons to stay here. This is crazier than 2008.

I totally agree. I am as upset as anyone else about the lose. But I am sure as hell not going to go out of my way and root for Kelly to fail. What the heck is the point of that?

 

[Irishjohn68]

They are not fans Ara....they are trolls posing as fans..and acting without the character their parents never taught them. They call fans that stand behind their teams cockroaches. They are the elite of ignorance. They deserve our pitty.

A-freakin'-man!

 

[Sarah_Plain_And_Tall]

A-freakin'-man!

Incorrect. We call fans who back Kelly no matter what Kool-Aid cockroaches. Big difference.

 

[zonairish]

I totally agree. I am as upset as anyone else about the lose. But I am sure as hell not going to go out of my way and root for Kelly to fail. What the heck is the point of that?

I want Kelly to succeed ! My perception is that kelly is very loyal to his friends. He needs to make hard choices here even when friends are involved. Heck Rich Rod at arizona last year fired a lot of his friends because it meant his job if he did not

 

[Java65]

I totally agree. I am as upset as anyone else about the lose. But I am sure as hell not going to go out of my way and root for Kelly to fail. What the heck is the point of that?

It's clear that the administration is not going to get rid of Kelly as long as he wins 7-8 games every year. Many of us believe, based on 6+ years of evidence, that Kelly is an 8 win coach. The only way that they will fire him is if he has a horrific season.

Personally, I would rather endure a 3 win season if it meant Kelly was gone after this year rather than 3 or 4 more 8 win seasons.

 

[stu4don]

Man, you guys have really turned on Van Gorder -- everyone was fully on board with him a few years ago.

Appears more to me that the defensive talent level is way down from where it was.

Nope -- we have the horses! (Sheldon Day! Jaylon Smith! Russell! Farley! Hell, even Max Redfield!) it is the coaching! No development. No cohesion. Poor scheme. Hell, we just graduated the best linebacker in the program's history! Is Zeke Motta such a better athlete than Max Redfield?! How come Diaco make KV Russell look all pro and then he goes backwards under this bullshit defense. It is BVG -- there is a reason he didn't last to long at Georgia.

I made my mind up in 2014 but was willing to trust Kelly and blame injuries and youth. (Big mistake!) It started when BVG's d gave up 55 to ASU... 43 to the powerful Northwestern offense... and 49 to USC!!! Not to mention giving up 43 to NC.

But last year was the final straw. We had the horses! We had a seasoned defense. Good players everywhere and with respect to a banged up and overmatched but big hearted Joe Schmidt everyone of us thought Morgan and Coney should be playing more. But the system couldn't hold him. And the players didn't develop. And our defense got us behind quickly to Clemson and couldn't hold the lead vs Stanford. BVG failed again.

BVG has failed miserably since the first day he stepped on ND soil. It is his time to go. And if Kelly doesn't see that, then perhaps it is his time to go too.

Sor

 

[cgvr]

Nope -- we have the horses! (Sheldon Day! Jaylon Smith! Russell! Farley! Hell, even Max Redfield!) it is the coaching! No development. No cohesion. Poor scheme. Hell, we just graduated the best linebacker in the program's history! Is Zeke Motta such a better athlete than Max Redfield?! How come Diaco make KV Russell look all pro and then he goes backwards under this bullshit defense. It is BVG -- there is a reason he didn't last to long at Georgia.

I made my mind up in 2014 but was willing to trust Kelly and blame injuries and youth. (Big mistake!) It started when BVG's d gave up 55 to ASU... 43 to the powerful Northwestern offense... and 49 to USC!!! Not to mention giving up 43 to NC.

But last year was the final straw. We had the horses! We had a seasoned defense. Good players everywhere and with respect to a banged up and overmatched but big hearted Joe Schmidt everyone of us thought Morgan and Coney should be playing more. But the system couldn't hold him. And the players didn't develop. And our defense got us behind quickly to Clemson and couldn't hold the lead vs Stanford. BVG failed again.

BVG has failed miserably since the first day he stepped on ND soil. It is his time to go. And if Kelly doesn't see that, then perhaps it is his time to go too.

Sor

The fact that every player recruited on that side of the ball can't contribute in some way on Day 1 along with 3 years of putrid inconsistent performance says that the system sucks....