Why On Earth Would a Recruit Ever Consider ND!?

[NotreDame du Lac]

1. Rumors are the HC doesn't even want to be at the school. Allegedly he was looking elsewhere even after last season.
2. He'll continue looking around if rumors are true.
3. He appears to do more screaming than actual teaching and appears to have lost respect from all of his players.
4. The team sucks.
5. Just up the road is a school called Michigan with an amazing coach who likes his players and gets the best out of them.
6. Just south is another amazing coach at OSU who gets the best out of his players and likes his players.
7. Why go to ND when you can go to Duke or Stanford and have a better coach? Heck, why not just go to Navy? I'd sure has heck take South California or Palo Alto over South Bend. They also have classy coaches.
8. If you mess up, it's been said that the coach may call you out publicly (Cough, long snapper, etc.).

Please... Add more. My hands started to hurt...

 

[Extirpate 6951]

1. Rumors are the HC doesn't even want to be at the school. Allegedly he was looking elsewhere even after last season.
2. He'll continue looking around if rumors are true.
3. He appears to do more screaming than actual teaching and appears to have lost respect from all of his players.
4. The team sucks.
5. Just up the road is a school called Michigan with an amazing coach who likes his players and gets the best out of them.
6. Just south is another amazing coach at OSU who gets the best out of his players and likes his players.
7. Why go to ND when you can go to Duke or Stanford and have a better coach? Heck, why not just go to Navy? I'd sure has heck take South California or Palo Alto over South Bend. They also have classy coaches.
8. If you mess up, it's been said that the coach may call you out publicly (Cough, long snapper, etc.).

Please... Add more. My hands started to hurt...

Fake contrived River Dancing on the sidelines! Embarrassing!

 

[ndhell]

South Bend sucks and ND lacks hot chicks.

 

[Shakin' Down the Thunder]

Education. It's still a 40 year decision for some kids.

 

[chaseball]

Education. It's still a 40 year decision for some kids.

Yes, for kids who are not very good at playing the game of football.

 

[perseverare]

if you are not among the top 25 at your position and you do not project to the NFL, it is still ND and football is your financial vehicle.

a pretty good option.

 

[sshulk]

The same reason anyone else would consider ND ... it's an awesome institution in so many ways that will challenge you and change you for the better and will stay with you for a lifetime ... it's not for everyone and that's OK.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

Academics is not a great reason to choose ND over Duke, Stanford, Northwestern, or even Michigan (although this is questionable). I love Notre Dame. As a former Domer, I get it. I grew up a fan, spent many weekends on campus, have family who attended, and I hope to send my own kids there. I love the place. However, most kids don't have that connection. They know it's a good academic place, but there are many other options. Kids will go play football at ND when they have all of the above and a coaching staff that wins games and has a positive message for young people. Right now the message portrayed is negative. Who would you want to play for: BK, Shaw, Fleck, Harbaugh, Meyer? BK would be my last choice. He would be my last choice for my kid as a former Domer. Thankfully my kid won't ever be making a football decision.

 

[mikend58]

Yes, for kids who are not very good at playing the game of football.

Then go root for another team. We get who we get and if your a fan you root for them.

It's not going to change. So you can get out now.

 

[perseverare]

Then go root for another team. We get who we get and if your a fan you root for them.

It's not going to change. So you can get out now.

and the kids that come in deserve the best; that includes coaching and coaching with dignity and respect.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

and the kids that come in deserve the best; that includes coaching and coaching with dignity and respect.

Oh please, STFU!

 

[T-bob75]

For the same reasons all the non-sports students choose/chose Notre Dame. If you're a football first kind of guy then Notre Dame probably isn't for you anyway. That said, ND still needs a few of those guys (high 4 stars/ 5stars) with NFL aspirations to make the team playoff competitive. I don't see getting any of those types anytime soon.

 

[Kelso86]

Why not?

Immediate playing time could be had, there is a consistent path to the NFL, and, upon graduation -- if the kid does all the right things, is set up for life, regardless of football aspirations.

Plus, why not be a part of building something back up?

 

[twalsh]

Academics is not a great reason to choose ND over Duke, Stanford, Northwestern, or even Michigan (although this is questionable). I love Notre Dame. As a former Domer, I get it. I grew up a fan, spent many weekends on campus, have family who attended, and I hope to send my own kids there. I love the place. However, most kids don't have that connection. They know it's a good academic place, but there are many other options. Kids will go play football at ND when they have all of the above and a coaching staff that wins games and has a positive message for young people. Right now the message portrayed is negative. Who would you want to play for: BK, Shaw, Fleck, Harbaugh, Meyer? BK would be my last choice. He would be my last choice for my kid as a former Domer. Thankfully my kid won't ever be making a football decision.

Perhaps you should attend the banquet this weekend and ask all the recruits and their parents that question.

 

[Howard Hall 74]

Perhaps you should attend the banquet this weekend and ask all the recruits and their parents that question.

What makes you think the recruits aren't asking those questions right now? Everyone surrounding the program is and will continue until the outstanding issues are settled. A coach!

 

[twalsh]

What makes you think the recruits aren't asking those questions right now? Everyone surrounding the program is and will continue until the outstanding issues are settled. A coach!

Not sure what your point is. He's wondering why any football recruit would want to attend ND. A bunch of our commitments, including early enrollees, and some prospects will be at the banquet. So he doesn't have to wonder, he can actually hear it from the horse's mouth.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

Hold out hope that Jack is waiting until after the banquet to let BK move on.

Also, there will always be recruits that go to any program. That does not mean things at ND are fine. And that does not mean many are opting out. If your point is that we should only take kids that have a past love affair with ND then I have nothing more to say.

 

[twalsh]

Hold out hope that Jack is waiting until after the banquet to let BK move on.

Also, there will always be recruits that go to any program. That does not mean things at ND are fine. And that does not mean many are opting out. If your point is that we should only take kids that have a past love affair with ND then I have nothing more to say.

Huh??????

 

[Howard Hall 74]

Not sure what your point is. He's wondering why any football recruit would want to attend ND. A bunch of our commitments, including early enrollees, and some prospects will be at the banquet. So he doesn't have to wonder, he can actually hear it from the horse's mouth.

It's in response to your post, read the first sentence. There is talk, maybe it will be shared with other people at the banquet, I doubt it, I wouldn't, but there is certainly talk and its getting louder. Look at this site, here...

 

[Jalex1227]

1. Graduation rate

2. Alumni network

3. 2nd most drafted players to the NFL last year.

All compelling reasons.... in any order you choose to rank them.

 

[Howard Hall 74]

1. Graduation rate

2. Alumni network

3. 2nd most drafted players to the NFL last year.

All compelling reasons.... in any order you choose to rank them.

Sorry, you have over stated today's recruits universe of choice. There is plenty to choose from now. This isn't 50 years ago. Like most people here you are over valuing the ND experience in the eyes of the general recruit.

1.Graduation Rate: Duke, Stanford, Northwestern et. al. have very good graduation rates too.

2.Alumni Network : Please, wait to you hear Southern Cals pitch from the regional head of recruiting. Plus the above schools, this is not a singular advantage. Hell, the University of Dayton has a great alumni network.

3. Drafts: Until a few years ago, only a few, if any players were taken from ND. Wait, your saying no one is drafted from osu, clemson, alabama, georgia, fl. st.? Come on...

Reality seems very hard to swallow for many here. ND is a great school with very poor marketing and public relations. Go to a Catholic HS and ask a college guidance counselor what they think of ND, they will say great school, but...there are others. 50 years ago, it was a great school and one of a very few and for many the only school, times and competition have changed the landscape.

 

[Epictitus]

Nearly 90% of those who apply, and those who apply represent the nations best young people, get turned away from Notre Dame. A Notre Dame education and degree, which 95% of the football team achiv, is still an extraordinary praise for being a football player.

 

[Howard Hall 74]

Nearly 90% of those who apply, and those who apply represent the nations best young people, get turned away from Notre Dame. A Notre Dame education and degree, which 95% of the football team achiv, is still an extraordinary praise for being a football player.

Your saying that ND is the only school that turns away 95% of the applicants? You would be surprised how many colleges say the same thing. It's not the same any more.

 

[Quest4Twelve]

1. Rumors are the HC doesn't even want to be at the school. Allegedly he was looking elsewhere even after last season.
2. He'll continue looking around if rumors are true.
3. He appears to do more screaming than actual teaching and appears to have lost respect from all of his players.
4. The team sucks.
5. Just up the road is a school called Michigan with an amazing coach who likes his players and gets the best out of them.
6. Just south is another amazing coach at OSU who gets the best out of his players and likes his players.
7. Why go to ND when you can go to Duke or Stanford and have a better coach? Heck, why not just go to Navy? I'd sure has heck take South California or Palo Alto over South Bend. They also have classy coaches.
8. If you mess up, it's been said that the coach may call you out publicly (Cough, long snapper, etc.).

Please... Add more. My hands started to hurt...

Everything in your post is pure conjecture and opinion. How do you know his players don't like him? Even if you have a couple is it impossible to believe that out of 80 young men they are not going to have issues with an authority figure?

 

[SALittleGiant513]

Hold out hope that Jack is waiting until after the banquet to let BK move on.

Also, there will always be recruits that go to any program. That does not mean things at ND are fine. And that does not mean many are opting out. If your point is that we should only take kids that have a past love affair with ND then I have nothing more to say.

This is dumb. If they are going to fire BK (they aren't) you don't want it to occur after the Banquet... that leaves the new staff no time to keep the class together/build the new class up.

 

[twalsh]

It's in response to your post, read the first sentence. There is talk, maybe it will be shared with other people at the banquet, I doubt it, I wouldn't, but there is certainly talk and its getting louder. Look at this site, here...

I never take what goes on on this site and/or other message boards as indicative of the reality of anything within the program or university. Having been a student, and having had a kid as a student who knew (and knows) many of players from the classes of 2012, 2013 and 2014, I know that things can get blown up bigger than life in fandom, especially things perceived as crises, when people actually involved with the university are often paying very little attention to the same topic, if they are even aware of it.

 

[Kelso86]

This is dumb. If they are going to fire BK (they aren't) you don't want it to occur after the Banquet... that leaves the new staff no time to keep the class together/build the new class up.

Or, quite simply, BK is going nowhere.

 

[Howard Hall 74]

Or, quite simply, BK is going nowhere.

Weis/Kelly exchange occurred during same time frame, give or take a week. Weis is the one who lead banquet that year.

 

[Kelso86]

Weis/Kelly exchange occurred during same time frame, give or take a week. Weis is the one who lead banquet that year.

Weis may have led the banquet, but, his last game was 11/28/2009, and fired 11/30/2009 -- everyone knew that was coming.

 

[perseverare]

Retaining Kelly would something that is just so desparate that it is hard to fathom.

 

[IrishBlessings]

Weis/Kelly exchange occurred during same time frame, give or take a week. Weis is the one who lead banquet that year.

Howard, as much as I'd love BK to move on - it is not happening. ND and Jack hamstrung themselves w/ the absurd extension they gave him. ND and Jack are not gonna do another CW and fire BK w/ $22 million being owed to him.

BK as much as he wants out of ND - is not going to find another Head Coaching job at a spot he'd want to go. He and his agent are delusional about his "worth" as a head coach. He has been exposed to be a bad in game decision maker. A average coach who does not have his team ready to play. And a coach who is overly arrogant. His player / coach relationships seem strained to say the least. A coach who has no problem throwing players under the bus publicly.

Now, if he can win 9 plus games next season - maybe he can - And he can snooker an AD or NFL GM to hire after next season. He sure as hell will be looking to get out Dodge again next season - if he can win the games he needs to win to make himself attractive again.

It's all about the $$ - BK is not going anywhere this season. Jack still needs to soften the financial hardship - maybe after next season when it gets whittled down to around $18 million and not $22 million - ND makes a move - Jack does not want to be compared to White - as an AD who got taken advantage of by a coaches agent.

As much as I'd love Coach Fleck to be the new coach at ND - not going to happen. The Fleck naysayers will be regretting not getting Fleck down the road.

 

[Howard Hall 74]

Howard, as much as I'd love BK to move on - it is not happening. ND and Jack hamstrung themselves w/ the absurd extension they gave him. ND and Jack are not gonna do another CW and fire BK w/ $22 million being owed to him.

BK as much as he wants out of ND - is not going to find another Head Coaching job at a spot he'd want to go. He and his agent are delusional about his "worth" as a head coach. He has been exposed to be a bad in game decision maker. A average coach who does not have his team ready to play. And a coach who is overly arrogant. His player / coach relationships seem strained to say the least. A coach who has no problem throwing players under the bus publicly.

Now, if he can win 9 plus games next season - maybe he can - And he can snooker an AD or NFL GM to hire after next season. He sure as hell will be looking to get out Dodge again next season - if he can win the games he needs to win to make himself attractive again.

It's all about the $$ - BK is not going anywhere this season. Jack still needs to soften the financial hardship - maybe after next season when it gets whittled down to around $18 million and not $22 million - ND makes a move - Jack does not want to be compared to White - as an AD who got taken advantage of by a coaches agent.

As much as I'd love Coach Fleck to be the new coach at ND - not going to happen. The Fleck naysayers will be regretting not getting Fleck down the road.

None of us know for sure what exactly is going to happen in the next 3 days, but my view is in this situation, the football program, money is not the issue people think. I also believe there is a buy out clause in this contract, probably for both sides if either chooses to initiate it. The terms and conditions of the buy out may vary, but there is an exit clause. My view because I can't see the Board of Directors agreeing to another extension so soon after the last debacle that they wouldn't insist on one. (Remember, this extension overlapped his final year of the existing contract. His agent would want a similar out as well.) The reason for the delay is probably attorneys working out the exit and terms. Also, after this weekend's games the coaching universe will be open. Same thing happened with Weis except they could move on Kelly quickly with his season being over shortly after ours. Situation is similar to the last coaching transfer. Some here agree, some disagree and many, many more hope there is a change. We'll know in a few days who is right.

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

This is dumb. If they are going to fire BK (they aren't) you don't want it to occur after the Banquet... that leaves the new staff no time to keep the class together/build the new class up.

So you think it's not dumb to delay the inevitable? If anyone thinks that Brian Kelly does not want to leave Notre Dame or that he plans on being the future of our program they are part of a small minority.

 

[twalsh]

Howard, as much as I'd love BK to move on - it is not happening. ND and Jack hamstrung themselves w/ the absurd extension they gave him. ND and Jack are not gonna do another CW and fire BK w/ $22 million being owed to him.

BK as much as he wants out of ND - is not going to find another Head Coaching job at a spot he'd want to go. He and his agent are delusional about his "worth" as a head coach. He has been exposed to be a bad in game decision maker. A average coach who does not have his team ready to play. And a coach who is overly arrogant. His player / coach relationships seem strained to say the least. A coach who has no problem throwing players under the bus publicly.

Now, if he can win 9 plus games next season - maybe he can - And he can snooker an AD or NFL GM to hire after next season. He sure as hell will be looking to get out Dodge again next season - if he can win the games he needs to win to make himself attractive again.

It's all about the $$ - BK is not going anywhere this season. Jack still needs to soften the financial hardship - maybe after next season when it gets whittled down to around $18 million and not $22 million - ND makes a move - Jack does not want to be compared to White - as an AD who got taken advantage of by a coaches agent.

As much as I'd love Coach Fleck to be the new coach at ND - not going to happen. The Fleck naysayers will be regretting not getting Fleck down the road.

We don't actually know if Kelly's contract has a buyout provision that is somewhat less than the entire amount owed over the remaining life of the contract, not to mention that we don't actually know what Kelly makes, though we think we have an idea. Bottom line, we don't really know if there's a financial aspect of this situation or not.

We don't really know if Kelly wants out of ND, or not. We've heard the media reports to that effect, but nothing has been corroborated by anyone who would have a reason to actually know. There's all sorts of BS reported in the media during these "coach on the hot seat" sagas, so you never really know what to believe. i.e. Stoops and his wife riding around Granger with a realtor in December 2009.

Interestingly, one of the mods on the pay site, guys who have access to the program on a daily basis, noted today that most of the players actually like Kelly personally. That was news to me. Looking from the outside I would have guessed they weren't that fond of him, even though that's not integral to being successful, see Dan Devine as an example.

 

[IrishBlessings]

We don't actually know if Kelly's contract has a buyout provision that is somewhat less than the entire amount owed over the remaining life of the contract, not to mention that we don't actually know what Kelly makes, though we think we have an idea. Bottom line, we don't really know if there's a financial aspect of this situation or not.

We don't really know if Kelly wants out of ND, or not. We've heard the media reports to that effect, but nothing has been corroborated by anyone who would have a reason to actually know. There's all sorts of BS reported in the media during these "coach on the hot seat" sagas, so you never really know what to believe. i.e. Stoops and his wife riding around Granger with a realtor in December 2009.

Interestingly, one of the mods on the pay site, guys who have access to the program on a daily basis, noted today that most of the players actually like Kelly personally. That was news to me. Looking from the outside I would have guessed they weren't that fond of him, even though that's not integral to being successful, see Dan Devine as an example.

The players better like BK for BK's sake - once the players turn on him - he is as good as gone regardless of any $ owed to him on a extension and how much Jack loves him.

From the outside - seems like the players "put up w/ him" because they have too -

Alot of sources have reported BK and his agent looking - the 2012 one is confirmed by BK himself - the one last year w/ USC was reported last year as well - and reported again this season - by more than 1 source - And BK is not going to confirm a report that he inquired at USC - he's not that stupid.

Once a looker - always a looker - BK does not want to be at ND contrary to what you and others may think - first chance he gets another decent opportunity - I'd be my house on it - he be gone !

 

[NotreDame du Lac]

I should make it clear that my original post is intended to mean right now. Of course Notre Dame will change as they always do. They will be good again. They will have a coach that inspires young people and to get their best effort. They will be a place where even football minded kids Who don't know much about Notre Dame can go. But what is best for Notre Dame right now is what this post is about. If I were a kid comparing programs and David Shaw or one of these fantastic Midwest coaches came to me and asked me to play for their program I think I could make my list pretty simple.

To say that any four or five star recruit chooses a university solely based on academics is ignorant. If that were actually true then all of Notre Dame's recruits that are super intelligent would've went and played for Harvard.

 

[twalsh]

The players better like BK for BK's sake - once the players turn on him - he is as good as gone regardless of any $ owed to him on a extension and how much Jack loves him.

From the outside - seems like the players "put up w/ him" because they have too -

Alot of sources have reported BK and his agent looking - the 2012 one is confirmed by BK himself - the one last year w/ USC was reported last year as well - and reported again this season - by more than 1 source - And BK is not going to confirm a report that he inquired at USC - he's not that stupid.

Once a looker - always a looker - BK does not want to be at ND contrary to what you and others may think - first chance he gets another decent opportunity - I'd be my house on it - he be gone !

The story on TOS this morning was that USC reached out to Kelly's agent, and asked ND for permission to talk with him. Kelly scuttled it before anything got going, they never really talked about the job. But 2012 is clearly known by everyone.

 

[IrishBlessings]

We don't actually know if Kelly's contract has a buyout provision that is somewhat less than the entire amount owed over the remaining life of the contract, not to mention that we don't actually know what Kelly makes, though we think we have an idea. Bottom line, we don't really know if there's a financial aspect of this situation or not.

We don't really know if Kelly wants out of ND, or not. We've heard the media reports to that effect, but nothing has been corroborated by anyone who would have a reason to actually know. There's all sorts of BS reported in the media during these "coach on the hot seat" sagas, so you never really know what to believe. i.e. Stoops and his wife riding around Granger with a realtor in December 2009.

Interestingly, one of the mods on the pay site, guys who have access to the program on a daily basis, noted today that most of the players actually like Kelly personally. That was news to me. Looking from the outside I would have guessed they weren't that fond of him, even though that's not integral to being successful, see Dan Devine as an example.

Twalsh - the more you post and the more you defend Jack at every turn - you are Jack - or you a

The story on TOS this morning was that USC reached out to Kelly's agent, and asked ND for permission to talk with him. Kelly scuttled it before anything got going, they never really talked about the job. But 2012 is clearly known by everyone.

that's not the story I heard from a good friend who was a part of the USC athletic dept. BK's agent inquired first and got USC to go down the path of inquiring w/ ND so that it did not look like BK was reaching out first.

BK's agent is pretty smart and shrewd. Look at the extension he was able to obtain for BK.

and the fact of the matter - is that BK has wandering eyes for other opportunities.

 

[twalsh]

Twalsh - the more you post and the more you defend Jack at every turn - you are Jack - or you a


that's not the story I heard from a good friend who was a part of the USC athletic dept. BK's agent inquired first and got USC to go down the path of inquiring w/ ND so that it did not look like BK was reaching out first.

BK's agent is pretty smart and shrewd. Look at the extension he was able to obtain for BK.

and the fact of the matter - is that BK has wandering eyes for other opportunities.

Twalsh - the more you post and the more you defend Jack at every turn - you are Jack - or you a


that's not the story I heard from a good friend who was a part of the USC athletic dept. BK's agent inquired first and got USC to go down the path of inquiring w/ ND so that it did not look like BK was reaching out first.

BK's agent is pretty smart and shrewd. Look at the extension he was able to obtain for BK.

and the fact of the matter - is that BK has wandering eyes for other opportunities.

Swarbrick is recognized as one of the best AD's in the country by anyone in that business. He doesn't need me to defend him. The problem with these situations and the ND fan base is that people are very troubled by gaps in information, and eventually just make stuff up to fill those gaps. We have a multitude of examples of that over the past few years. I just try to understand and recognize what we don't know. Which, when it comes to ND, is usually a lot.

 

[IrishBlessings]

Swarbrick is recognized as one of the best AD's in the country by anyone in that business. He doesn't need me to defend him. The problem with these situations and the ND fan base is that people are very troubled by gaps in information, and eventually just make stuff up to fill those gaps. We have a multitude of examples of that over the past few years. I just try to understand and recognize what we don't know. Which, when it comes to ND, is usually a lot.

I don't dispute that Jack is not a great AD. He has done a lot of great things for ND. He just a mistake on BK's extension is all.