Why doesn't ND fans/media people understand that ND *intentionally* sacrificed offense for defense with their scheme/gameplan?

[chaseball]

When an opposing team out-talents you the way OSU does ND, especially offensively, the best way to neutralize the other team's talent advantage is to milk the clock, shorten the game, keep the opposing O off the field, get some stops, keep the game close, and maximize any mistakes the opposing team makes.

ND executed this gameplan well on the offensive side of the ball for nearly 3 quarters, but ultimately came up short.

The offense was intentionally conservative (it was *not* an accident). ND sacrificed their offense to help stop OSUs offense, yet people are calling for Rees' head like the offense was out there trying to be explosive but failed miserably.

This is not to say that the offense is where it needs to be, or that ND fans shouldn't be critical of Rees, or ND fans should be happy with the steep lack of offensive-talent relative to other big-time programs, but rather to point out that it's hard to gain any real insight into the offense when such a gameplan is being executed.

 

[savvyandsassier]

I don't know, man.... that sounds farfetched. But maybe you're right, maybe they in effect didn't try to score, as part of a long-term gambit, that they would win in the end, by strategically sacrificing yards gained, and more importantly points on the scoreboard.

I guess it almost worked. But they still needed to score two more TDs, even over against their conservative tactics.... Or completely shut down, or even straight-up shut out this ultra high-powered offense of tOSU. I guess maybe if they maintained possession for like 85% of the clock, and then kicked a FG we could have won 3-0.

 

[Airzee23]

ND football has always been like this. Play Marshall W. Play Louisville W. Play a real team and get smoked.

 

[chaseball]

I don't know, man.... that sounds farfetched. But maybe you're right, maybe they in effect didn't try to score, as part of a long-term gambit, that they would win in the end, by strategically sacrificing yards gained, and more importantly points on the scoreboard.

I guess it almost worked. But they still needed to score two more TDs, even over against their conservative tactics.... Or completely shut down, or even straight-up shut out this ultra high-powered offense of tOSU. I guess maybe if they maintained possession for like 85% of the clock, and then kicked a FG we could have won 3-0.

This is how Navy and other military academies gameplan to neutralize the steep talent disadvantage they have vs most of their schedule.

Milk clock, don't turn over the ball by running an ultra conservative offense/scheme, and put your team in a position to win by capitalizing on the other team's turnovers/flukes/mistakes.

I was very happy that Freeman executed this gameplan because it tells me two things:

1. Freeman is self aware enough to realize that ND can't compete with OSU running their typical scheme/gameplan (because of the steep talent disadvantage) and no amount of coaching (regardless of how good a coach you are) will overcome that fact.

2. Freeman is self aware enough to realize that there's an emergency situation in terms of lack of talent, and he'll continue to address this via his coaching staff hires and on the recruiting trail going forward

Someone like BK thinks his coaching/process is enough to win a national title -- regardless of the level of his talent -- which is why we had 12 years of the same ole under him.

Freeman realizes that he desperately needs the horses or it doesn't matter how good other aspects of his coaching are (thus he'll commit fully to procuring higher end talent).

 

[bizzybecknd]

This is how Navy and other military academies gameplan to neutralize the steep talent disadvantage they have vs most of their schedule.

Milk clock, don't turn over the ball by running an ultra conservative offense/scheme, and put your team in a position to win by capitalizing on the other team's turnovers/flukes/mistakes.

I was very happy that Freeman executed this gameplan because it tells me two things:

1. Freeman is self aware enough to realize that ND can't compete with OSU running their typical scheme/gameplan (because of the steep talent disadvantage) and no amount of coaching (regardless of how good a coach you are) will overcome that fact.

2. Freeman is self aware enough to realize that there's an emergency situation in terms of lack of talent, and he'll continue to address this via his coaching staff hires and on the recruiting trail going forward

Someone like BK thinks his coaching/process is enough to win a national title -- regardless of the level of his talent -- which is why we had 12 years of the same ole under him.

Freeman realizes that he desperately needs the horses or it doesn't matter how good other aspects of his coaching are (thus he'll commit fully to addressing it).

That ultra talented team scraped by at home, won TOP, Heismam trophy favorite QB averaged 6 YPC to Buchners 9.. funny enough it was the TOP/running game and keeping the ND D on the field that wore down ND and won OSU the game. The “talent” was in the trenches and OSU running 21 more plays than ND.

 

[chaseball]

That ultra talented team scraped by at home, won TOP, Heismam trophy favorite QB averaged 6 YPC to Buchners 9.. funny enough it was the TOP/running game and keeping the ND D on the field that wore down ND and won OSU the game. The “talent” was in the trenches and OSU running 21 more plays than ND.

If ND went out there running their typical no huddle/spread throwing the ball around like they did vs Ok State they would have gotten ran over.

Notre Dame beat the spread and "only" lost by 11 because they turned their entire gameplan into something Navy would run and it worked for a significant chunk of the game.

This might be the best performance ND has had in 20 some years vs a current super program like OSU due to Freeman being the first HC/person of leadership in the football program who actually understands that you aren't going to compete vs a 2 deep full of 4 & 5 star elite all-world all americans and heisman candidates when your roster is full of 3 & 4 star garden variety schlep.

 

[savvyandsassier]

This is how Navy and other military academies gameplan to neutralize the steep talent disadvantage they have vs most of their schedule.

Milk clock, don't turn over the ball by running an ultra conservative offense/scheme, and put your team in a position to win by capitalizing on the other team's turnovers/flukes/mistakes.

I was very happy that Freeman executed this gameplan because it tells me two things:

1. Freeman is self aware enough to realize that ND can't compete with OSU running their typical scheme/gameplan (because of the steep talent disadvantage) and no amount of coaching (regardless of how good a coach you are) will overcome that fact.

2. Freeman is self aware enough to realize that there's an emergency situation in terms of lack of talent, and he'll continue to address this via his coaching staff hires and on the recruiting trail going forward

Someone like BK thinks his coaching/process is enough to win a national title -- regardless of the level of his talent -- which is why we had 12 years of the same ole under him.

Freeman realizes that he desperately needs the horses or it doesn't matter how good other aspects of his coaching are (thus he'll commit fully to procuring higher end talent).

No, I know, I know.... Freeman definitely doesn't have what it takes, and he knows it more than anyone. Rees neither. I mean we don't have the talent, we don't have the players, we certainly don't have the coaching chops. The game was pretty much over before it started, and if there was a way we could have employed the Dean Smith four-corners stallball, and just sat on it all four quarters and played for OT, preferably ending regulation at 0-0.... that's what we would have done.

At least Al Golden did okay. Though it was really more of a.bluff than a brilliant or ingenious strategy. Which is to be expected. And then tOSU eventually started running the ball, and we were foiled again.....

 

[d1042]

it may have been ‘intentional’ also.

 

[Bodizephax]

When an opposing team out-talents you the way OSU does ND, especially offensively, the best way to neutralize the other team's talent advantage is to milk the clock, shorten the game, keep the opposing O off the field, get some stops, keep the game close, and maximize any mistakes the opposing team makes.

ND executed this gameplan well on the offensive side of the ball for nearly 3 quarters, but ultimately came up short.

The offense was intentionally conservative (it was *not* an accident). ND sacrificed their offense to help stop OSUs offense, yet people are calling for Rees' head like the offense was out there trying to be explosive but failed miserably.

This is not to say that the offense is where it needs to be, or that ND fans shouldn't be critical of Rees, or ND fans should be happy with the steep lack of offensive-talent relative to other big-time programs, but rather to point out that it's hard to gain any real insight into the offense when such a gameplan is being executed.

Most teams that play Ohio State this year will have far less talent then us and still score more then ten points. Tom Rees was far too conservative.

 

[chaseball]

it may have been ‘intentional’ also.

thanks, fixed

 

[nshvllend]

When an opposing team out-talents you the way OSU does ND, especially offensively, the best way to neutralize the other team's talent advantage is to milk the clock, shorten the game, keep the opposing O off the field, get some stops, keep the game close, and maximize any mistakes the opposing team makes.

ND executed this gameplan well on the offensive side of the ball for nearly 3 quarters, but ultimately came up short.

The offense was intentionally conservative (it was *not* an accident). ND sacrificed their offense to help stop OSUs offense, yet people are calling for Rees' head like the offense was out there trying to be explosive but failed miserably.

This is not to say that the offense is where it needs to be, or that ND fans shouldn't be critical of Rees, or ND fans should be happy with the steep lack of offensive-talent relative to other big-time programs, but rather to point out that it's hard to gain any real insight into the offense when such a gameplan is being executed.

People's reading comprehension really sucks. All Chaseball is saying is that OSU has more talent than ND. Is that a surprise to anyone? It was a good game plan and almost worked and for people bashing Rees do you really think he came up with this on his own? Also, losing your best player on the offensive line is bound to impact the gameplan. You will see less talented teams playing ND in the next few weeks do the same thing. So yes, it sucks to only score ten points but if the offense was super aggressive the score could've easily been 49-24. With 2-3 turnovers that game could've been over by halftime. Would that be better? I honestly dont think this game tells us much on either side of the ball.

 

[savvyandsassier]

People's reading comprehension really sucks. All Chaseball is saying is that OSU has more talent than ND. Is that a surprise to anyone? It was a good game plan and almost worked and for people bashing Rees do you really think he came up with this on his own? Also, losing your best player on the offensive line is bound to impact the gameplan. You will see less talented teams playing ND in the next few weeks do the same thing. So yes, it sucks to only score ten points but if the offense was super aggressive the score could've easily been 49-24. With 2-3 turnovers that game could've been over by halftime. Would that be better? I honestly dont think this game tells us much on either side of the ball.

Yeah, I think everyone gets it. So please just back off. You don't need to get self-righteous on top of shoveling this banal theory of intentionally sucking, and not wanting to score, in effect, because you're so desperate to keep your totally superior opponent from boat racing you, so the only thing you're concerned about is drawing the clock down....

WE GOT IT..... And while you're at it, get some evidence, some testimony from Rees under oath... at least before you start haranguing random clueless ND fans, as if you are literally part of Rees' inner circle.

 

[nshvllend]

Yeah, I think everyone gets it. So please just back off. You don't need to get self-righteous on top of shoveling this banal theory of intentionally sucking, and not wanting to score, in effect, because you're so desperate to keep your totally superior opponent from boat racing you, so the only thing you're concerned about is drawing the clock down....

WE GOT IT..... And while you're at it, get some evidence, some testimony from Rees under oath... at least before you start haranguing random clueless ND fans, as if you are literally part of Rees' inner circle.

And wheres your evidence? I’m sure they decided points don’t matter just for the hell of it? Get out of here with your douche bag attitude. Your opinion isn’t any more important.

 

[ftnfan62]

When an opposing team out-talents you the way OSU does ND, especially offensively, the best way to neutralize the other team's talent advantage is to milk the clock, shorten the game, keep the opposing O off the field, get some stops, keep the game close, and maximize any mistakes the opposing team makes.

ND executed this gameplan well on the offensive side of the ball for nearly 3 quarters, but ultimately came up short.

The offense was intentionally conservative (it was *not* an accident). ND sacrificed their offense to help stop OSUs offense, yet people are calling for Rees' head like the offense was out there trying to be explosive but failed miserably.

This is not to say that the offense is where it needs to be, or that ND fans shouldn't be critical of Rees, or ND fans should be happy with the steep lack of offensive-talent relative to other big-time programs, but rather to point out that it's hard to gain any real insight into the offense when such a gameplan is being executed.

Agree completely, but as Mike Tyson says.... everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.

Unfortunately, our punch was delivered by someone in stripes. A O-PI penalty. Rarely called. We had answered their last score, we were using this formula to answer the next......3-4 yards, grind, nothing big....

That game plan does not work behind the sticks unfortunately. TR should have had a "break glass" plan for 2-3 plays that pulled out some exotic crap.

Thats really the difference in this game and i agree with you. If we are down 14-10, with the ball at the 35 and DONT get a fairly pathetic call that was uncatchable by either player. Who knows....maybe we grind that clock down to 2m and take a 17-14 lead. That also gave the D another 15 min breather.

One play, can make a diff.

 

[savvyandsassier]

And wheres your evidence? I’m sure they decided points don’t matter just for the hell of it? Get out of here with your douche bag attitude. Your opinion isn’t any more important.

I don't have any. I'm not making any bold assertions, or violating Occam's razor, or running interference or propgandizing for Tommy Rees. It would be cool on these boards, that you have to include a disclaimer, if you're about to get all uppity, that whatever strained, quite possibly cockamamie theory you're going to insist that the coaching staff was totally thinking and it was guiding their decisions..... is just some shit you made up. Could be plausible, could be completely stupid, could be true or somewhat true, could be completely false and without any merit or basis in reality whatsoever.

Instead of just saying it's my 'opinion', which somehow just doesn't cut it anymore. Anyway thank you for some more oblique BK bashing. If anyone was tempted to think that maybe these new coaches totally suck, or can't coach for shit, now they know that it was like, some brilliant tactical jujitsu from Rees and MF. Though I think that might actually reflect even worse on MF/Rees, that a flat-out top five program like ND certainly is at this moment, considered themselves to be so outgunned that they basically conceded defeat before the game started. And the whole thing was just damage control.

Play to lose....

 

[savvyandsassier]

Agree completely, but as Mike Tyson says.... everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.

Unfortunately, our punch was delivered by someone in stripes. A O-PI penalty. Rarely called. We had answered their last score, we were using this formula to answer the next......3-4 yards, grind, nothing big....

That game plan does not work behind the sticks unfortunately. TR should have had a "break glass" plan for 2-3 plays that pulled out some exotic crap.

Thats really the difference in this game and i agree with you. If we are down 14-10, with the ball at the 35 and DONT get a fairly pathetic call that was uncatchable by either player. Who knows....maybe we grind that clock down to 2m and take a 17-14 lead. That also gave the D another 15 min breather.

One play, can make a diff.

Good, it looks like you guys understand each other. Upshot being MF and Rees are both a-okay, nothing to see here. BK still sucks, and his replacement coaches are actually quite shrewd, managing to limit the margin of defeat, and even still had the game within reach by the 4th quarter. Who knows, maybe we get a pick-six and pull off the stunner....

I honestly think this little theory makes them look worse. ND is a top five program, for now at least, and it doesn't really redound terribly to your credit to have such a negative approach for such a big game. Like some soccer team going for a goalless draw, which as a tactic is at least more practical, and is something a helplessly overmatched opponent can actually aspire to achieve. It's harder to pull off in American football....

 

[NDblitz]

Most teams that play Ohio State this year will have far less talent then us and still score more then ten points. Tom Rees was far too conservative.

Good, it looks like you guys understand each other. Upshot being MF and Rees are both a-okay, nothing to see here. BK still sucks, and his replacement coaches are actually quite shrewd, managing to limit the margin of defeat, and even still had the game within reach by the 4th quarter. Who knows, maybe we get a pick-six and pull off the stunner....

I honestly think this little theory makes them look worse. ND is a top five program, for now at least, and it doesn't really redound terribly to your credit to have such a negative approach for such a big game. Like some soccer team going for a goalless draw, which as a tactic is at least more practical, and is something a helplessly overmatched opponent can actually aspire to achieve. It's harder to pull off in American football....

Mrs Kelly I know you’re unhappy but you were at the game last night right? You saw that performance? Right now your husband is kinda proving his naysayers more than correct.

 

[IrishMike409]

Most teams that play Ohio State this year will have far less talent then us and still score more then ten points. Tom Rees was far too conservative.

Agree, but not even sure that it was an issue with Rees being too conservative. He’s shown ability to run. 13 games or whatever as OC, and we can’t run.

Not sure if it’s Rees, the OL, or the RBs…..but if we don’t run effectively, we can’t beat the Top Teams.

 

[ftnfan62]

Good, it looks like you guys understand each other. Upshot being MF and Rees are both a-okay, nothing to see here. BK still sucks, and his replacement coaches are actually quite shrewd, managing to limit the margin of defeat, and even still had the game within reach by the 4th quarter. Who knows, maybe we get a pick-six and pull off the stunner....

I honestly think this little theory makes them look worse. ND is a top five program, for now at least, and it doesn't really redound terribly to your credit to have such a negative approach for such a big game. Like some soccer team going for a goalless draw, which as a tactic is at least more practical, and is something a helplessly overmatched opponent can actually aspire to achieve. It's harder to pull off in American football....

I think you scheme for what you have. They know its TB's first game. I think if it were reversed, and Day had CJ as a first-time starter and Buch was a Junior it's a very diff plan.

You plan for what you are, not where you wish you were.

 

[HDK]

I don't have any. I'm not making any bold assertions, or violating Occam's razor, or running interference or propgandizing for Tommy Rees. It would be cool on these boards, that you have to include a disclaimer, if you're about to get all uppity, that whatever strained, quite possibly cockamamie theory you're going to insist that the coaching staff was totally thinking and it was guiding their decisions..... is just some shit you made up. Could be plausible, could be completely stupid, could be true or somewhat true, could be completely false and without any merit or basis in reality whatsoever.

Instead of just saying it's my 'opinion', which somehow just doesn't cut it anymore. Anyway thank you for some more oblique BK bashing. If anyone was tempted to think that maybe these new coaches totally suck, or can't coach for shit, now they know that it was like, some brilliant tactical jujitsu from Rees and MF. Though I think that might actually reflect even worse on MF/Rees, that a flat-out top five program like ND certainly is at this moment, considered themselves to be so outgunned that they basically conceded defeat before the game started. And the whole thing was just damage control.

Play to lose....

That "rarely called" offensive pass interference was an egregious penalty, but it prevented a possible interception.

 

[savvyandsassier]

I think you scheme for what you have. They know its TB's first game. I think if it were reversed, and Day had CJ as a first-time starter and Buch was a Junior it's a very diff plan.

You plan for what you are, not where you wish you were.

Right, that's true....

All's I'm saying is that was not a offensive performance to be hanging your hat on. I can understand BK-bashers trying to spin it nevertheless, and insisting how it was actually pretty astute and demonstrated an admirable tactical restraint on Rees' part.... I guess in that case then I'd be more worried about our apparently glaring lack of offensive firepower, such that before the game even starts we willingly reduce ourselves to such a feeble posture, especially for an opponent that was coming in with a reputation for a crap defense that just overhauled their entire defensive staff, and quite frankly should have been looked upon as a vulnerable defense to be attacked.

And that's sort of the subtext that's implicit in taking such a negative approach. That our offense can't string plays together. Better to play for the goalless draw....

 

[mva5580]

The way a lot of you lunatics talk about ND here, that’s supposed to be Purdue‘s mentality when playing Ohio State. Not Notre Dame.

Or perhaps a bit more of you are starting to accept what ND is now?

 

[Bodizephax]

People's reading comprehension really sucks. All Chaseball is saying is that OSU has more talent than ND. Is that a surprise to anyone? It was a good game plan and almost worked and for people bashing Rees do you really think he came up with this on his own? Also, losing your best player on the offensive line is bound to impact the gameplan. You will see less talented teams playing ND in the next few weeks do the same thing. So yes, it sucks to only score ten points but if the offense was super aggressive the score could've easily been 49-24. With 2-3 turnovers that game could've been over by halftime. Would that be better? I honestly dont think this game tells us much on either side of the ball.

I agree. If Tommy and his offense were more aggressive ND would have won 49 to 24 instead of losing 21 to 10

 

[HDK]

The way a lot of you lunatics talk about ND here, that’s supposed to be Purdue‘s mentality when playing Ohio State. Not Notre Dame.

Or perhaps a bit more of you are starting to accept what ND is now?

Accepting reality is always a good first step.

 

[burmafrd1943]

What an incredible waste of time by two of the dumbest so called fans ND has.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

I don't know, man.... that sounds farfetched. But maybe you're right, maybe they in effect didn't try to score, as part of a long-term gambit, that they would win in the end, by strategically sacrificing yards gained, and more importantly points on the scoreboard.

I guess it almost worked. But they still needed to score two more TDs, even over against their conservative tactics.... Or completely shut down, or even straight-up shut out this ultra high-powered offense of tOSU. I guess maybe if they maintained possession for like 85% of the clock, and then kicked a FG we could have won 3-0.

He didn't say we didn't try to score. He said conservative, which bishop correct. We did take a few shots in the 2nd half, but we didn't execute; doesn't mean you scrap the game plan. OSU is the more talented team, shorting the game was the right game plan.

 

[DieHard_Irish]

No, I know, I know.... Freeman definitely doesn't have what it takes, and he knows it more than anyone. Rees neither. I mean we don't have the talent, we don't have the players, we certainly don't have the coaching chops. The game was pretty much over before it started, and if there was a way we could have employed the Dean Smith four-corners stallball, and just sat on it all four quarters and played for OT, preferably ending regulation at 0-0.... that's what we would have done.

At least Al Golden did okay. Though it was really more of a.bluff than a brilliant or ingenious strategy. Which is to be expected. And then tOSU eventually started running the ball, and we were foiled again.....

Wrong, we do have the coaching chops. It's stupid, really just whinning, to say we don't