What's the projected number of points we give up this year?

[justacollegefan]

Our defense was average at best last year and now with the loss of Max and possibly Butler we are going to be shredded in the secondary unless new kids step up big. Of course this is on top of the losses of key players like Jaylon, Day, and Russell to the draft and others who played key rolls. We may end up needing 30 points per game from the offense to win 10 games this season.

Oh well, gotta have hope but it gets tougher every year lol

Go Irish!

 

[Irish Grandeur]

ND has a lot of young talent in the back-end of their defense. MR was already looking over his shoulder at DS and likely would have been replaced during the season. This season is looking to me a lot like the 1988 season.

 

[IrishInOntario]

ND has a lot of young talent in the back-end of their defense. MR was already looking over his shoulder at DS and likely would have been replaced during the season. This season is looking to me a lot like the 1988 season.

That's simply not true. By all reports , Max was clearly the starter at FS and was having an excellent camp. Brian Kelly, who has had plenty of warranted criticism of Max during his time at Notre Dame, has spoken glowingly of his off season and training camp thus far. There is no sugar coating it. Losing Redfield hurts the quality of the secondary. The question becomes, can this group hold up? And for how long?

CB: Cole Luke (SR)
2. Donte Vaughn (FR)

FS: Devin Studstill (FR)- Hamstring injury for most of camp.
2. Jalen Elliot (FR)

SS: Drue Trainquill (JR)-Coming off back-to-back ACL's.
2. Avery Sebastien (SR)

CB: Shaun Crawford (SOPH)- Coming off torn ACL.
2. Nick Coleman (SOPH)

Note: Nick Watkins should be back after about the first month of the season, when his arm is fully healed/

 

[FLballcoach1]

The ability to hold up in the back will be in direct connection with the amount of pressure the Front 4 can apply to the passer without the aid of blitzing. If the pass rush is lackluster then covering down the field will be a huge challenge this year.

 

[end_23]

Butler is a D2 level player. He can't cover an orange cone. He is hardly a loss. Watch a game sometime OP.

 

[Quest4Twelve]

Butler is a D2 level player. He can't cover an orange cone. He is hardly a loss. Watch a game sometime OP.

What an idiotic thing to say.

 

[Irish Grandeur]

That's simply not true. By all reports , Max was clearly the starter at FS and was having an excellent camp. Brian Kelly, who has had plenty of warranted criticism of Max during his time at Notre Dame, has spoken glowingly of his off season and training camp thus far. There is no sugar coating it. Losing Redfield hurts the quality of the secondary. The question becomes, can this group hold up? And for how long?

CB: Cole Luke (SR)
2. Donte Vaughn (FR)

FS: Devin Studstill (FR)- Hamstring injury for most of camp.
2. Jalen Elliot (FR)

SS: Drue Trainquill (JR)-Coming off back-to-back ACL's.
2. Avery Sebastien (SR)

CB: Shaun Crawford (SOPH)- Coming off torn ACL.
2. Nick Coleman (SOPH)

Note: Nick Watkins should be back after about the first month of the season, when his arm is fully healed/

You have your opinion and I have mine. BK has called MR inconsistent in the interviews I watched. Sure, it would be better for ND if he lived up to his hype but the proof is in the pudding - he was dismissed for his lack of leadership and making poor decisions. You can hype him all you want but, to me, his true colors showed and BK dismissed him for good reason.

 

[DillonDomer]

I predict they will be under 20 ppg. They were at 24 last year but I think the schedule is favorable to keeping it lower. Texas is young, Nevada won't be too challenging, Mi St will have a new qb and they are more defensive anyway. Duke and NC St are wild cards but I feel good about Syr and Stan also has a new qb and will likely be more defensive and is more likely to grind it out and control the clock. Miami is a question but is after the break week, then Navy and Army should be low before finishing with Va Tech and Southern Cal. This is all dependent upon young players stepping up and playing pretty well but mostly on D line making teams more one dimensional.

 

[IrishInOntario]

You have your opinion and I have mine. BK has called MR inconsistent in the interviews I watched. Sure, it would be better for ND if he lived up to his hype but the proof is in the pudding - he was dismissed for his lack of leadership and making poor decisions. You can hype him all you want but, to me, his true colors showed and BK dismissed him for good reason.

I have no issue with his dismissal. I absolutely felt that Brian Kelly made the right decision in in this instance. However, that doesn't take away from the fact that ND's leading returning tackler is no longer a part of this team, not to mention a senior, who was going to be counted on to provide leadership and mentorship to a young secondary. Furthermore, the videos you must have watched with Kelly calling Max inconsistent were in the spring. He had been praised fairly consistently by BK in interviews and press conferences throughout fall camp.

This is a loss, IMO. Especially given the fact that his replacement is a 190lb true freshman, who has been hurt since the beginning of camp.

 

[Kelso86]

As IIO stated, the loss of MR and his leadership will be missed, no doubt. But regardless of that, we do have talent back there -- young talent, but talent none the less.

The key to help these guys will be the front 7 and what kind of a pass rush they can get on a consistent basis. If this cannot be established -- it will not matter who the DB's are, they will get shredded if QB's have all day to sit back and toss the ball around the lot.

 

[perseverare]

does ND go full out with the offense passing attack or does ND focus on ball control?
that will go a long way to determine the ppg the D gives up.

probably the more points ND scores the more points ND will surrender.

 

[shooter1977]

I just don't see it happening with BVG. Last year's defense struggled against teams like Virginia and UMass and couldn't stop the good teams (Stanford, OSU). I don't see how losing guys like Jaylon, Russell, Okwara, Farley makes the defense better. Hope I'm wrong!

 

[perseverare]

^ cause the assumption is the opposing QB's lack experience and are a dropoff from those of '15

 

[Irishjohn68]

Last year ND gave up 269 points. This defense just has to be better. I'll throw out a number, 242

 

[Irishjohn68]

Butler is a D2 level player. He can't cover an orange cone. He is hardly a loss. Watch a game sometime OP.

That's funny!

 

[perseverare]

funny but some orange cones are yellow, some red and some black

 

[nemeth#5]

Youth seems to be a growing trend in CFB across the nation. Maybe it is time some of our younger players step up like we have seen from other teams.

 

[cgvr]

Our defense was average at best last year and now with the loss of Max and possibly Butler we are going to be shredded in the secondary unless new kids step up big. Of course this is on top of the losses of key players like Jaylon, Day, and Russell to the draft and others who played key rolls. We may end up needing 30 points per game from the offense to win 10 games this season.

Oh well, gotta have hope but it gets tougher every year lol

Go Irish!

bvg is totally clueless....

“We’ve had the payoff of our system in games already,” VanGorder said. “My first year here it was obvious how the system can work. We’ve been a little bit dented at times since then, and we’ve lost some personnel and such at times. The rhythm of it hasn’t been maybe what I was hoping for.”
https://notredame.rivals.com/news/too-complex-brian-vangorder-s-defense-tests-young-players

In his first year he authored the worst ppg and most total points against us in our history. He is a bonafide imbecile.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/active/n/notre_dame/2010-2014_yearly_results.php

"It took two years, Martini said, for him to get a handle on the scheme, which is widely regarded as intricate and complex." The "scheme" obviously also prevents depth....

 

[Irish Grandeur]

I have no issue with his dismissal. I absolutely felt that Brian Kelly made the right decision in in this instance. However, that doesn't take away from the fact that ND's leading returning tackler is no longer a part of this team, not to mention a senior, who was going to be counted on to provide leadership and mentorship to a young secondary. Furthermore, the videos you must have watched with Kelly calling Max inconsistent were in the spring. He had been praised fairly consistently by BK in interviews and press conferences throughout fall camp.

This is a loss, IMO. Especially given the fact that his replacement is a 190lb true freshman, who has been hurt since the beginning of camp.

The video was one where he was asked (in fall camp) how Max was doing. Bk said something along the lines of 'no comment' until he does it two or three days in a row. That led me to believe BK didn't trust his consistency.

Anyone saying MR's leadership will be missed need only review the arrest and what was at issue - weed and loaded gun. BK does not need 'thug life' promoted on this team and had no decision other than dismiss MR.

I never liked MR's play and didn't trust it would be different this year. I saw his dismissal as a positive rather than a negative. Imagine how many times he was out living the thug life with underclassmen and didn't get caught - does anyone really believe this is an isolated incident?

 

[8th Man]

About 28/game. On the positive side, the offense should be good for 36/game.

 

[Pennick44]

That's simply not true. By all reports , Max was clearly the starter at FS and was having an excellent camp. Brian Kelly, who has had plenty of warranted criticism of Max during his time at Notre Dame, has spoken glowingly of his off season and training camp thus far. There is no sugar coating it. Losing Redfield hurts the quality of the secondary. The question becomes, can this group hold up? And for how long?

CB: Cole Luke (SR)
2. Donte Vaughn (FR)

FS: Devin Studstill (FR)- Hamstring injury for most of camp.
2. Jalen Elliot (FR)

SS: Drue Trainquill (JR)-Coming off back-to-back ACL's.
2. Avery Sebastien (SR)

CB: Shaun Crawford (SOPH)- Coming off torn ACL.
2. Nick Coleman (SOPH)

Note: Nick Watkins should be back after about the first month of the season, when his arm is fully healed/

I don't think he was having an excellent camp. He recently got tossed out of a drill by a coach and had been reverting back to his past inconsistent play per Coach D.

 

[perseverare]

I'm thinking 22-24 ppg

teams putting the most points up: USC, Mia, NCST, Duke and Navy

 

[justacollegefan]

Last year ND gave up 269 points. This defense just has to be better. I'll throw out a number, 242

Hope you are correct because I am not feeling good right now but I am hoping some new kids can make an impact. The problem is we don't get those huge 5 star recruits most years, like Jaylon or Manti, that can step in right away and be a difference maker. It is especially worrisome for both our secondary and d-line.

I see some mentioning the d-line and I write about them consistently, if you view my posts from last season and before, because we don't ever have a solid pass rush to help the secondary. It is also a reason I stand up for BVG considering he was blitzing 6 guys last year non stop and rarely did we even get pressure. That was with some solid kids not around anymore. Last year I remember someone on here arguing with me that our pass rush was good and I just laughed. I mean I don't know when we had a dominating pass rusher who could demand double teams and do damage alone besides Tuck and that was a long time ago.

Like I said, I have hope every year and I'm anxious to see these kids come out but over the past 2 decades I have also learned not to get my hopes up too high. Obviously our offense looks good but who knows what will happen with this quarterback situation? One other key for our defense is that the offense will need to maintain possession so that running game needs to be solid. I think even with Elmer retiring we should be fine and we have a couple high end RB's Kelly needs to utilize, along with the mobility of these two QB's. The fact Kelly doesn't coach that way scares me but hopefully we can get enough time with the ball and limit the other teams while of course scoring 24 pts. a game. I don't think we win 10 without averaging that and I noticed someone say our schedule is weaker which is false!

Overall I will be happy to see us in every game, stay healthy, no discipline or transfer issues, and winning 10 plus a decent bowl game will be ideal. Then we just need to develop these young kids and hope we can land a couple studs on defense through recruiting. If that happens we could really have a great team going forward!

 

[StCecelia40]

17 a game 13 games what's that. 221 I think. 221 is my guess

 

[justacollegefan]

Our defense was average at best last year and now with the loss of Max and possibly Butler we are going to be shredded in the secondary unless new kids step up big. Of course this is on top of the losses of key players like Jaylon, Day, and Russell to the draft and others who played key rolls. We may end up needing 30 points per game from the offense to win 10 games this season.

Oh well, gotta have hope but it gets tougher every year lol

Go Irish!

just reposting this because once again if you understand football, especially college, it wasn't hard to see this coming. I laugh at the people blaming Kelly or BVG for the loss as well, if you don't have great talent or at least enough on each level of your defense it just doesn't matter when you're playing programs that get the same players like Texas. It maybe hard for many to accept the reality of our program, it took me 20 painful years, but you can't pretend we have the same talent overall like we once had. Just look at one of the posts above arguing my original statement saying, 'this team reminded him of 1988!'

Again I figured we were set up for a great 2017 and was hoping for 10 wins this year plus a good bowl game victory. Losing to an improved Texas team doesn't mean we can't still win 10 but I have to say 9 seems more realistic now unless we have a miracle and the defense gels immediately. Just too many losses from suspension and the draft to add to the fact we don't recruit kids that can step in and play like Jaylon and Manti did so well. You really need to be physically gifted to jump from high school to college and be able to make a direct impact on defense.

Anyway we will have to wait and see if this defense improves. I think BVG is a good coach but if he were replaced I wouldn't be upset. Maybe a different style of defense helps but again the talent, depth, and experience isn't there so we have to hope we can just slow down teams... Of course that was my main point when I started this thread asking how many points we needed to score each game to win 10

 

[justacollegefan]

Our defense was average at best last year and now with the loss of Max and possibly Butler we are going to be shredded in the secondary unless new kids step up big. Of course this is on top of the losses of key players like Jaylon, Day, and Russell to the draft and others who played key rolls. We may end up needing 30 points per game from the offense to win 10 games this season.

Oh well, gotta have hope but it gets tougher every year lol

Go Irish!

Just a reminder of what I said two weeks prior to the season started... I guess I was off about needing 30 pts a game but I also show this again because people on this site get pissed off when I tell the truth and just some of the replied are funny.

I love the serious people on this board, not the tools who have no clue what they are talking about, but some still don't want to face reality. Now BVG is gone and that is fine. I thought he was a good coach but his schemes weren't working so you need something new. At the same time I will guarantee again that no coach is going to come in here and turn that defense into something great. I do think it will be better, because it can't get much worse, but when you can't freaking tackle and are playing without passion it is hard for any coach or any scheme.

Hey I would love to be proven wrong and honestly I hope I am. I think Kelly, unlike most people here, is a good coach and smart offensive guy. I think he does the best he can with recruiting talented skilled players but he can't control everything like injuries, transfers, suspensions, etc... no coach can take those things every season and expect to win in college football, especially at ND. By the way, who is going to be that amazing coach that we can all of sudden get? This talk happens whenever people want our head coach fired and it is always Nick Saban, Meyer, hey what the heck throw in Bill Belichick or any name you can think of but it is delusional thinking. The money isn't the issue, though I don't think this administration would want to pay 8 million+ per year for anyone because they make money regardless. No the issue is the fact these coaches all know it is a huge challenge trying to recruit and win at ND these days and many don't want that stress.

Okay let's see what happens but I hope the season turns around and we can get 8 wins. Tough teams coming up with Stanford, Miami, Navy, VT, and USC... they all hate us and play their best games against the Irish. Maybe the kids and coaches will loosen up a little since nothing is on the line. They still need to change their attitudes though, more toughness and effort will be key, along with some above average tackling

 

[end_23]

What an idiotic thing to say.

Not at all. I go to the games. He's not good. Clue in.

 

[Legendsteve]

This team could very easily lose every remainig game. They are that bad. After Kelly's presser it will be interesting to see the teams response. No leader like Manti to rally the troops this time. Very bad move by Kelly. He embarrassed himself and ND. He could have a mutiny on his hands. The clock is ticking.

 

[ivan brunetti]

Headed now for 402 for 12 games. I will take the under though.

 

[justacollegefan]

This team could very easily lose every remainig game. They are that bad. After Kelly's presser it will be interesting to see the teams response. No leader like Manti to rally the troops this time. Very bad move by Kelly. He embarrassed himself and ND. He could have a mutiny on his hands. The clock is ticking.

Very negative but I can see you hate Kelly so I expect nothing less. In addition the offense hasn't been terrible but hard for them to score on every drive when the defense is so bad. I do agree with you though about no leadership and Flutie discussed that, as well as the lack of aggression, the players showed. I know some don't like Flutie because he played for BC and he probably doesn't like ND much but he is correct. No mutiny is happening, this is Notre Dame not Miami or USC! These kids care about each other and the coaches or they wouldn't be at this university. I am sure many are sad to see BVG let go but they also understand something needs to change and hopefully it makes a difference.

One last note.. I guarantee if Kelly is fired, like many on here want, and we don't have a guy with a name or rep. like Saban, we lose a good number of recruits for 2017. There are not as many kids out there wanting to play for ND, because it is ND, like years ago. So you add the fact we are already at a disadvantage because of location and academics, it makes them that much more difficult for any coach. Of course this only makes a difference to those who still expect national titles every season even if our last was 29 years back. Personally I just want to see a solid team that gives 100% each game and can win 10 games with the possibility of making it to a playoff. If we were recruiting anywhere close to Bama I would think differently but that isn't the case so fans need to be realistic.

 

[perseverare]

2017? have you checked that schedule?

Given the holes in defensive recruiting, unless the current class ends with 4-5 very elite 'play on arrival' prospects, defensively things will get worse before we see improvement.

BVG's departure was not supplemented by addition of a proven successful defensive coach. This was a move to send a message, but not necessarily a move improving the 'collective defensive think tank'. That tank is just less filled with 'stinkin thinkin'. The necessary changes cannot end with yesterdays move, or things have not changed at all.

 

[justacollegefan]

Our defense was average at best last year and now with the loss of Max and possibly Butler we are going to be shredded in the secondary unless new kids step up big. Of course this is on top of the losses of key players like Jaylon, Day, and Russell to the draft and others who played key rolls. We may end up needing 30 points per game from the offense to win 10 games this season.

Oh well, gotta have hope but it gets tougher every year lol

Go Irish!

Just going to bring back this post after each game considering so many were bitter that I would tell the truth. Now BVG is gone, that is fine, but as I mentioned in another post it won't change with our talent! Syracuse isn't a great team and we had 9 pts from 2 returns, so again we have to score 35+ on offense to win.

IDK.. maybe we can get Alvarez to come out of retirement because that is the type of defensive coach we need. Of course I'm being sarcastic, well expect for the fact we need a coach like him which is hard to find. Either way we need solid recruits at each level on defense or it won't matter, especially for the "fans" that think we should be playing for national titles each year like it's the 50's or 60's. Hey I'll admit, I use to think that way as well, but since it's been 29 years since our last title don't you think it's time to think differently?