USC game 2022...silver lining

[88ND]

We didn't collapse.
We've seen similar scenarios many times over the last decade and we collapse.
WE did NOT collapse Saturday night.
Kinda sorta had a chance for much of the game.
In other words we weren't playing uphill like many similar scenarios in years past.

That USC QB is tough and I'm not sure anyone beats them that Saturday night. They were playing for a playoff and coached and played accordingly.

It was a positive we didn't fold and or look completely overwhelmed.

Huge plus going forward.


We absolutely need to keep Golden....

But...

We need a WR coach because ours suck.

Too much standing around.

Lenzy's feet in cement waiting on the ball...if he comes back to the ball that interception doesn't happen and who knows on that drive.

All year our WR's are spectators when the scramble is on.
Help out the damn QB!!!

 

[NDDadx3]

We didn't collapse.
We've seen similar scenarios many times over the last decade and we collapse.
WE did NOT collapse Saturday night.
Kinda sorta had a chance for much of the game.
In other words we weren't playing uphill like many similar scenarios in years past.

That USC QB is tough and I'm not sure anyone beats them that Saturday night. They were playing for a playoff and coached and played accordingly.

It was a positive we didn't fold and or look completely overwhelmed.

Huge plus going forward.


We absolutely need to keep Golden....

But...

We need a WR coach because ours suck.

Too much standing around.

Lenzy's feet in cement waiting on the ball...if he comes back to the ball that interception doesn't happen and who knows on that drive.

All year our WR's are spectators when the scramble is on.
Help out the damn QB!!!

Agree with the first half of this post … the way the game started it was looking like Miami 2017 or Michigan 2019 but ND didn’t flinch and stayed in the game enough that a mistake or two by USC could have given us a chance.

Not sure I agree about the WR comment. Coach had almost bare cupboard in terms of bodies and experience and had to switch QBs in game 2 so any rapport built in fall practice was starting over. The int was 100% on Pyne and after all that time with 3 man rush he has to throw that one away.

 

[88ND]

Agree with the first half of this post … the way the game started it was looking like Miami 2017 or Michigan 2019 but ND didn’t flinch and stayed in the game enough that a mistake or two by USC could have given us a chance.

Not sure I agree about the WR comment. Coach had almost bare cupboard in terms of bodies and experience and had to switch QBs in game 2 so any rapport built in fall practice was starting over. The int was 100% on Pyne and after all that time with 3 man rush he has to throw that one away.

Might I suggest you go back and watch some of the season...particularly when the QB bails on a collapsing pocket.

Notice any of our players break off their route and slip behind the D for a homerun? Or even an attempt of such?
Good luck finding that.

What you will see is this...a host of receivers literally standing there stationary waiting for a ball to be thown to them while the QB is scrambling for his life.
They don't come back to the ball...they don't break off their route and improvise for a big play or help the QB.

Now either they're taught to stay put or nobody is saying anything whatsoever. Either way it's wrong.

All year long our WR's are spectators. Run the route and cement hardens on the cleats.

 

[francade]

“All year our WR's are spectators when the scramble is on.
Help out the damn QB!!!”

This^^^^^for quite some time now at ND. When Williams scrambled, wide open wrs running free, when Pyne scrambled, we had wrs not coming back to the ball & certainly not getting open.

 

[NDDadx3]

“All year our WR's are spectators when the scramble is on.
Help out the damn QB!!!”

This^^^^^for quite some time now at ND. When Williams scrambled, wide open wrs running free, when Pyne scrambled, we had wrs not coming back to the ball & certainly not getting open.

Week after week Twitter is filled with clips of Pyne failing to notice uncovered receivers running deep or standing in the flat while he locks on to Mayer or pulls it down to run. He never throws the ball away and you never ever throw back across your body back into the field. It’s almost an automatic interception. You guys are just wrong.

 

[Kelso86]

We didn't collapse.
We've seen similar scenarios many times over the last decade and we collapse.
WE did NOT collapse Saturday night.
Kinda sorta had a chance for much of the game.
In other words we weren't playing uphill like many similar scenarios in years past.

That USC QB is tough and I'm not sure anyone beats them that Saturday night. They were playing for a playoff and coached and played accordingly.

It was a positive we didn't fold and or look completely overwhelmed.

Huge plus going forward.


We absolutely need to keep Golden....

But...

We need a WR coach because ours suck.

Too much standing around.

Lenzy's feet in cement waiting on the ball...if he comes back to the ball that interception doesn't happen and who knows on that drive.

All year our WR's are spectators when the scramble is on.
Help out the damn QB!!!

88 -- you ok? You found a silver lining from a loss? lol

"We need a WR coach because ours suck"

I will give his a pass for 2022 -- he was not playing with a full deck. Now, 2023 and beyond are his.

 

[francade]

I’m not saying Pyne hasn’t missed wrs when locking in on Mayer, I’m saying when he scrambles, we rarely have wrs wide open for easy throws like we saw w/ Williams Saturday night. And no, we’re not wrong that had lenzy come back to the ball, it wouldn’t have been picked.

 

[NDDadx3]

I’m not saying Pyne hasn’t missed wrs when locking in on Mayer, I’m saying when he scrambles, we rarely have wrs wide open for easy throws like we saw w/ Williams Saturday night. And no, we’re not wrong that had lenzy come back to the ball, it wouldn’t have been picked.

To blame the receiver for that interception is absurd. It was a high school mistake to throw that ball.

 

[tbone3114]

Agree with the first half of this post … the way the game started it was looking like Miami 2017 or Michigan 2019 but ND didn’t flinch and stayed in the game enough that a mistake or two by USC could have given us a chance.

Not sure I agree about the WR comment. Coach had almost bare cupboard in terms of bodies and experience and had to switch QBs in game 2 so any rapport built in fall practice was starting over. The int was 100% on Pyne and after all that time with 3 man rush he has to throw that one away.

Agree.. plus with the group of receivers coming in and how Colzie came on and Merriweather things are looking bright ... may Styles break out next year!!!

 

[francade]

I never said that it was a good decision to throw across his body. All I said was that had lenzy come back to the ball, which you’re supposed to do on a scramble drill, it wouldn’t have been picked. You not giving any blame to Lenzy is the “absurd” take.

 

[NDDadx3]

I never said that it was a good decision to throw across his body. All I said was that had lenzy come back to the ball, which you’re supposed to do on a scramble drill, it wouldn’t have been picked. You not giving any blame to Lenzy is the “absurd” take.

Ok I got you, it would have been a smart play, like Williams broke up Watts interception by committing the offensive PI in the first half, but if your counting on receivers to play defense on bad throws then good luck. Pyne had way too much time on that play and should have thrown that ball away.

 

[francade]

Agreed, but look at the ramifications of just those two plays. If the usc wr doesn’t make that play & lenzy breaks that int up, we may be singing a different tune today. Bad decision by both qbs, one good play by their wr, one not so good from ours were game defining plays.

 

[ftnfan62]

Game was ours, 4-5 plays was the difference. In a 60 minute game, it was 4-5 plays.

Fumble, pick, three missed turn over opportunities for us.

MF had a MUCH tougher schedule than BK has over the last 10 years. I dont think BK every played 3 top 10 teams, maybe I'm wrong.

We had new coaches everywhere, assembled in year. We had almost ZERO QB experience and our WR's had little experience outside of Lenzy. We lost WR #1 (Davis) before the season with experience.

Yet, somehow this staff beat a top 10 and went toe to toe with the other 2.

The only things I would change is find a dang punt/KO returner that can run and avoid a tackle. Joseph can catch, but he is an awful return man.

Find a consistent kicker you can count on, not just one game.

Get a QB from the portal with big game experience that allows us to develop TB and Menchey.

Play Sneed and Estime full time in 23

Find a better shoe to stop all these ACL and Achilles injuries.

 

[Golson5]

Agree.. plus with the group of receivers coming in and how Colzie came on and Merriweather things are looking bright ... may Styles break out next year!!!

Hopefully Styles is here next year

 

[NDDadx3]

Agreed, but look at the ramifications of just those two plays. If the usc wr doesn’t make that play & lenzy breaks that int up, we may be singing a different tune today. Bad decision by both qbs, one good play by their wr, one not so good from ours were game defining plays.

Yes that was the halfback pass back to Caleb Williams, really smart play by their QB turned receiver to break that up.

 

[88ND]

Week after week Twitter is filled with clips of Pyne failing to notice uncovered receivers running deep or standing in the flat while he locks on to Mayer or pulls it down to run. He never throws the ball away and you never ever throw back across your body back into the field. It’s almost an automatic interception. You guys are just wrong.

He didn't throw backwards against the grain on that pick...

While you wouldn't show any young QB what you should do with that video as he threw off his back foot....

Apparently you need to watch that pick again from the slow motion replay.

If Lenzy comes back to the ball at the very least he and the DB collide at the arrival of the ball probably resulting in an incompletion...at worst...a completion at best.

While Pyne needs to step into that throw you absolutely positively can NOT discount the fact that Lenzy is literally standing flat footed waiting for something to happen.

I say again....

As I said a few times earlier this year....
The WR's do not break off their route and come back to the QB...slip behind the D for an easy score....none of it.
I literally have watched every play and most negative plays a second and third time and it's a year long theme.
Receivers run a route, QB leaves pocket scrambling, receivers standing still looking back at QB in case it's thrown to them.

You seem to disagree so please point out all the plays particularly the plays when our receiver slips behind the D for a surprise long pass and or TD.

Show any of the receivers racing back toward the QB to help him out and give him an outlet.

Doesn't happen whatsoever....

And to add...

If you or anyone else for that matter was the QB and nobody came to your aid meaning all receivers are covered you'd throw it to Mayer as well. He's the one and only guy with ten bodies hanging off him that will still probably catch the ball.


Before you say...I'd throw the ball away...
Two things on that note...
#1 how many times have you seen Brian Kelly giving the tongue lashing to a QB for exactly that..??
It was a 12 year theme because no matter what in a BK play there is never a no option for the football to get thrown.

#2 there is 5 minutes to go in the 4th down by 10.

#3 Lenzy literally bends his knees like a catcher getting ready to stomach catch the football.

#4 what he is NOT doing is coming back to the ball.

 

[88ND]

88 -- you ok? You found a silver lining from a loss? lol

"We need a WR coach because ours suck"

I will give his a pass for 2022 -- he was not playing with a full deck. Now, 2023 and beyond are his.

Why give him a pass?

I've bitched for years we lack elite talent on the perimiter...for whatever reason ...we just don't get that talent.

That said what I'm talking about won't make a damn bit of difference.

We can have Lynn Swann, Jerry Rice, Tim Brown and Fred Biletnikoff plus Mayer as our 5 receivers and there will be times when even all 5 are covered and the pocket breaks down.

If they are all standing around waiting for something to happen when the QB scrambles it won't matter one bit.

Like I said our receivers are told repeatedly to never ever ever break off their routes and come back to the QB or football,
or,
it's never addressed whatsoever.

Either way it's wrong and more athletic talent won't fix that little nuance....or lack there of

 

[NDDadx3]

He didn't throw backwards against the grain on that pick...

While you wouldn't show any young QB what you should do with that video as he threw off his back foot....

Apparently you need to watch that pick again from the slow motion replay.

If Lenzy comes back to the ball at the very least he and the DB collide at the arrival of the ball probably resulting in an incompletion...at worst...a completion at best.

While Pyne needs to step into that throw you absolutely positively can NOT discount the fact that Lenzy is literally standing flat footed waiting for something to happen.

I say again....

As I said a few times earlier this year....
The WR's do not break off their route and come back to the QB...slip behind the D for an easy score....none of it.
I literally have watched every play and most negative plays a second and third time and it's a year long theme.
Receivers run a route, QB leaves pocket scrambling, receivers standing still looking back at QB in case it's thrown to them.

You seem to disagree so please point out all the plays particularly the plays when our receiver slips behind the D for a surprise long pass and or TD.

Show any of the receivers racing back toward the QB to help him out and give him an outlet.

Doesn't happen whatsoever....

And to add...

If you or anyone else for that matter was the QB and nobody came to your aid meaning all receivers are covered you'd throw it to Mayer as well. He's the one and only guy with ten bodies hanging off him that will still probably catch the ball.


Before you say...I'd throw the ball away...
Two things on that note...
#1 how many times have you seen Brian Kelly giving the tongue lashing to a QB for exactly that..??
It was a 12 year theme because no matter what in a BK play there is never a no option for the football to get thrown.

#2 there is 5 minutes to go in the 4th down by 10.

#3 Lenzy literally bends his knees like a catcher getting ready to stomach catch the football.

#4 what he is NOT doing is coming back to the ball.

You’ve watched and researched this way more than me so you’re probably more right than I am. I do know that he had way too much time on that play and it needed to be thrown out of bounds once he got outside the tackle box. I’m 100% sure Pyne would agree and wishes he had that throw back. Your point about him trying to make a play is a good one and usually the reason a QB forces a throw he shouldn’t. Our passing game was not good all year, receivers and QB not in synch, bad reads, had throws, dropped passes and still managed some good and even great moments.

 

[88ND]

You’ve watched and researched this way more than me so you’re probably more right than I am. I do know that he had way too much time on that play and it needed to be thrown out of bounds once he got outside the tackle box. I’m 100% sure Pyne would agree and wishes he had that throw back. Your point about him trying to make a play is a good one and usually the reason a QB forces a throw he shouldn’t. Our passing game was not good all year, receivers and QB not in synch, bad reads, had throws, dropped passes and still managed some good and even great moments.

The future looks good. I'm not even talking about incoming talent. The tone of the team has an upward vibe about it.
Many times over the last decade this team falls on it's face in a game like Saturday night.
That didn't happen and that's great going forward.

Rees improved and that's a huge thing going forward.
I love the fact he turned the offense into power football playing to our strengths.
Now he needs to stop playing musical RB's and give Estime a nice helping of 22-26 carries per game occasionally spelled by #3 and #25.

I'd really like to see little things cleaned up like coming back to the ball.
Pyne is height challenged...we can't make receiver's run a 4.25 but we can coach them to completion meaning covering all details like a huge one in coming back to the pass.

Good HS coaches teach this yet somehow our receivers are statues. Ridiculous!

One more bowl game to go hopefully we dominate again

 

[francade]

Excellent discussion, dad & 88.

 

[Kelso86]

Why give him a pass?

I've bitched for years we lack elite talent on the perimiter...for whatever reason ...we just don't get that talent.

That said what I'm talking about won't make a damn bit of difference.

We can have Lynn Swann, Jerry Rice, Tim Brown and Fred Biletnikoff plus Mayer as our 5 receivers and there will be times when even all 5 are covered and the pocket breaks down.

If they are all standing around waiting for something to happen when the QB scrambles it won't matter one bit.

Like I said our receivers are told repeatedly to never ever ever break off their routes and come back to the QB or football,
or,
it's never addressed whatsoever.

Either way it's wrong and more athletic talent won't fix that little nuance....or lack there of

"Why give him a pass?"

He came in AFTER the recruiting period ended, he was given the set of receivers he had, and that is what he worked with -- we all knew there would be pains. He basically had no say in who he was coaching -- yes, there should be teaching, and that is him --

that said, going forward, it is on him.