Please get back with me when you discover he's ever got ANYTHING right. His therapists must have a field day with this clown.
USATODAY/Coaches poll
- Thread starter NDSMC78
- Start date
His ongoing NFL draft analysis was awesome. That was like watching the Titanic sink over the course of 2 months. I am guessing that right now he is pondering the recipe to make ice and debating with himself.
As I said he is regularly exploring and discovering new depths of stupidity. It's his calling. This one is going to be tough to top, but I am very confident he can get it done.
PS it is great that the board just accepts him forgetting who he is in threads. Classic....
Love this circle jerk with Mo1e and cgvr. (only these two could make a cirle with two, or lie about the same!!) If there are two bigger a-holes on any board no one has seen them.
Mo1e, you offered the bet, I took you up on it and you rescinded and now are lying about it as usual. Why not make the bet so we can get rid of you by December? Why must you be a chickensh-- about everything.
Mo1e, you offered the bet, I took you up on it and you rescinded and now are lying about it as usual. Why not make the bet so we can get rid of you by December? Why must you be a chickensh-- about everything.
Holy crap! We're # 1!!!!!!!!
http://collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/seasons.cfm?seasonid=1988#.VbutH_NViko
PS "fatber ted is shaking his hard....."
Link it idiot. It's in the archives. Probably first couple of pages. It's there just as I stated. Should take even a moron like yourself less than five minutes to copy and paste it.
What part of "Only an idiot would accept a wager with a liar who has 22+ usernames ok" don't you get? My cash wager still is on the table. If you really believe ND will have a BETTER regular season record then take the wager. Otherwise crawl away in fear.
Link that I offered you a bet other than the cash one and I'll never post here again. I asked IB if he would like to wager on his comment, he offered an imbalanced wager, I countered with a fairer wager and he declined the bet. YOU tried to butt in and were rebuked.
I won't hold my breath as usual waiting for you to back up your lies. You never do.
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again, his collegiate resume says otherwise. Kelly has actually accomplished more at the collegiate level.
Parse all you want.
Harbaugh won a BCS bowl game, knocked off a number 1 ranked team, took a 1-11 team to 12-1 in 4 years and bludgeoned brian kelly in south bend 37-14.
Head to head he demolished kelly. (At one point he was up 34-6 in the 4th 1/4 - TOP 36 vs 23 minutes)
(The knocking off of # 1 southern cal was statistically the greatest upset in CFB history).
Harbaugh's light years ahead of kelly and is one of the best coaches in the world at any level.
Kelly is not.
Keep trying to draw a line at the college level. As I said, that's just you parsing.
We're fortunate that Harbaugh is not on our schedule. He's lethal and on a mission.
Your opinion is equal to kelly's BCS game wins. As I said, you don't know much about football.
kelly is not in Harbaugh's league. Could you do me a favor and get the betting line on the Texas game?
Please make sure you don't look up the '78 Cotton Bowl....
PS Again, thank you. Whenever you arrive in a discussion and pick a side that side then loses all credibility.
Thanks for the laughs.
"fatber ted is shaking his hard....."
Love to know your criteria for determining Kelly a top five coach.
You may have an argument for top 20 but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would agree with you about top five. Then again I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would agree with you about much of anything.
Still waiting for all the links I have asked for supporting your numerous lies.
Wow, what a dummy.
Oh, he's got better. It's some show!
Here he is moments before doing his in depth research....
ff to 1:28
Hey, good news!!! Winston was named starting QB by Tampa today.
Do you have an updated scouting report?
PS I am not breaking your shoes, but wanted to make sure you knew it was still 2015.
That's very cherry oicked and you know it
That would be like saying Kelly is VASTLY SUPERIOR because he's gone undefeated 2x in CFB and HARBAUGH never has
The reality is that both are good coaches, HARBAUGH did a good job at Stanford (and a great job at the 49ers) but has more to prove at the collegiate level, as he's never won so much as a single major conference championship...let alone a national championship
He may actually be the 3rd beat CFB coach in his own division
The only cherry picking here is trying to compartmentalize Harbaugh's football career. The guy was a completion away from a Super Bowl win. Had Ted Ginn stayed healthy he may have had 2 Super Bowl opportunies. He built Stanford from nothing into a.meat grinder. (I doubt Harbaugh would have ditched his undefeated Cincinnati team leaving them in tears.)
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but kelly will never make it to the Super Bowl among other things.
PS in one of the greatest coaching jobs in football history Harbaugh beat NC and soon to be Super Bowl champion head coach pete carroll. That 41 point line record won't be touched. He also pantsed carroll in 2009 55-21. At the time those 55 points were the most points ever scored against southern cal. I think Harbaugh made 3 NFC championship games and made 1 Super Bowl.
His acumen, football knowledge, ability... are superior to kelly in every way and it isn't close. If you were given the choice of head coaches, would you choose kelly over Harbaugh?
CFB and NFL really aren't similar and the skills needed to be good in one don't usually translate between them that well
Saban wasn't a good nfl coach, but is arguably the best CFB in the nation(and yes, unquestionably a better CFB coach than HARBAUGH)
Pointing out what HARBAUGH "almost did" in the nfl has absolutely no purpose or value in this discussion
And your evaluation is incredibly cherry picked.
Why is "winning a bcs game" the standard of great coaching? You could win a bcs game over a barely .500 team
Why is the standard not "undefeated football seasons" or "national championships" or "conference championships"??
I think you would find most people would value those metrics over "bcs wins" which is totally arbitrary
HARBAUGH is a good cosh, but you're randomly selecting the criteria that he has which Kelly doesn't to compare them on, instead if actually meaningful criteria.
Not to mention obsessing over 1 game against Carroll (who blew a random sam game basically every year, no matter who the opposing coach was) as if it really matters...but the in your "the nfl matters here" analysis your ignoring that Carroll whipped him and actually win something meaningful, which HARBAUGH never did, and HARBAUGH proceeded to turn tail and run (just how you said he wouldn't, so...)
HARBAUGH has a lot left to prove in CFB, including that he can win something meaningful.
By any meaningful CFB metric, he's probably the 3rd best CFB coach in his own division of the Big10... But you're acting like he's a god
If HARBAUGH and Kelly's teams played this year, Harbaugh's team would likely get steamrolled...which is really all that needs to be said
I simply pointed out accomplishments. Harbaugh is a far more accomplished HC and player than kelly will ever be. Bank that.
The NFL certainly matters as Harbaugh is/was wanted there and kelly isn't. I wonder, why? Actually, I don't... I know why....
Where did you come up with this?
"and HARBAUGH proceeded to turn tail and run (just how you said he wouldn't, so...)"
Huh?
Here's a summary of what I've written;
Harbaugh was a first round draft pick and finished 3rd in the Heisman voting.
He spent 14 years as an NFL QB.
His football coaching experience, system and accomplishments dwarf kelly's.
Harbaugh's football background is darn near flawless.
He ran and will continue to run rings around kelly.
There isn't a coach in FB that looks across the field and says, "holy shit that's Brian kelly. We're in for it today."
He intimidates no one. Harbaugh does.
He is going to build an absolute meat grinder at um. (kelly is 2-3 vs um)
Harbaugh won a BCS bowl game, knocked off a number 1 ranked team, took a 1-11 team to 12-1 in 4 years and bludgeoned brian kelly in south bend 37-14.
His NFL achievements are terrific and only irrelevant to those with blinders on.
At the college level he twice beat pete carroll's southern cal machine. One win was history making versus the spread. The other was history making for most points ever scored against southern cal.
Your,
"Not to mention obsessing over 1 game against Carroll (who blew a random sam game basically every year, no matter who the opposing coach was) as if it really matters"
makes no sense.
There were two games where Harbaugh crushed carroll and both made cfb history.
Head to head he demolished kelly. (At one point he was up 34-6 in the 4th 1/4 - TOP 36 vs 23 minutes)
Harbaugh's light years ahead of kelly and has proven he can over achieve in both CFB/NFL arenas. .
He is one of the best coaches in the world at any level.
kelly isn't.
PS You also avoided my question, "If you were given the choice of head coaches, would you choose kelly over Harbaugh?"
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You can write a novel all you want. You can't change the facts
1.) NFL doesn't matter for CFB, it's totally different (just ask Saban)
2.) HARBAUGH has never won a major conference title or national championship in CFB
That alone says A LOT
3.) HARBAUGH has never gone undefeated in CFB, he has consistently lost some games
Again, another important fact you fail to notice
4.) HARBAUGH has always been the #2 or #3 coach in his grouping, whether it's Stanford where Carroll and Kelly are winning thre championship while he's runner up, or the NFL where Carroll, his brother, and other are winning championship while he is again runner up
You keep randomly making assertions like "he'll make Michigan into a meat grinder" but the dude has never won a major conference championship...so his success at the top level is far from guaranteed
No one is scared to play Harbaugh's team this year...again, all that needs to be said
You can arbitrarily say "he's great because he won these 2 games" but your cherry picked accomplishments don't change thre facts
HARBAUGH is the 3rd most accomplished CFB coach in his own division
Just thin about that, you're tying to worship the 3rd coach in his own division...wow...
1.) NFL doesn't matter for CFB, it's totally different (just ask Saban)
2.) HARBAUGH has never won a major conference title or national championship in CFB
That alone says A LOT
3.) HARBAUGH has never gone undefeated in CFB, he has consistently lost some games
Again, another important fact you fail to notice
4.) HARBAUGH has always been the #2 or #3 coach in his grouping, whether it's Stanford where Carroll and Kelly are winning thre championship while he's runner up, or the NFL where Carroll, his brother, and other are winning championship while he is again runner up
You keep randomly making assertions like "he'll make Michigan into a meat grinder" but the dude has never won a major conference championship...so his success at the top level is far from guaranteed
No one is scared to play Harbaugh's team this year...again, all that needs to be said
You can arbitrarily say "he's great because he won these 2 games" but your cherry picked accomplishments don't change thre facts
HARBAUGH is the 3rd most accomplished CFB coach in his own division
Just thin about that, you're tying to worship the 3rd coach in his own division...wow...
cgvr proves with each post what a total jerk he is and magnify a his total lack of football knowledge.
Lol..... yet he has asked you numerous times to refute anything he says with no response from you. Prove your points and don't bore us with empty drival.
Take a lesson. Both cgvr and Decker have made good points and provided actual facts to support their opinions. You seldom do that and when challenged and when asked to provide proof or a link verifying your delusion you noisily disappear and never respond ... except to deflect from your original comment.
Your debate skills are a lot like your grammar and spelling. Pretty much non existent.
Mo1e, please tell us again how you come up with Brian Kelly murdered someone and FSU never cheated. We're waiting for years!
First of all this username hasn't been around for years. In fact, this username wasn't invented when Sulivan died. Neither were your other six or so.
Secondly, "we're" not waiting for anything. The rest of the folks here are sane and they know that you are not only ND's most embarrassing poster but also a deranged psychopathic liar.
But keep making a fool of yourself obsessed one. You're pure entertainment.
What quandary?
Still waiting for those links to prove you didn't lie. I know ...... which lie? There are so many of them.
By the way .... could you get me the betting line for last year's Northwestern game? Want to place a bet. Thanks.
Bwaaaaaaaaaa. ----- pure entertainment I tell ya, pure entertainment.
How many times do I have to say this before you get it. Never been so proud of a coach in my life ....... since Bobby anyway.
Have never expressed any personal feelings about Winston other than to say "innocent until proven guilty". Unlike you I believe in the American justice system and Bill of Rights. Until there's some proof of guilt he's just another student athlete. A great one though.
You proud of the long list of ND players who have been dismissed for academic cheating or been arrested? Throwing stones in glass domes is becoming of you.
Last time I will respond to this stupid question.
God you're stupid.
To be fair, the number of ND players whom have been forced into a civil settlement because of sexually related transgressions is very small, especially compared to FSU
Beyond that transgression (a potentially very serious one, we'll never know more than he had to pay to make it go away) he has a far more spotted history than most: crab legs, stealing Burger King, ***** riot, etc
It's easy to see why many would point out gat Jamies represents the worst that CFB offers society
You can try to argue it, but he comes across very easily as a problem
Contrary to your assertion, "That would be like saying Kelly is VASTLY SUPERIOR because he's gone undefeated 2x in CFB and HARBAUGH never has"
Brian Kelly has never gone undefeated in D1 football. He was 12-0 and quit on his BCS Sugar Bowl bound cinci team before they got their asses handed to them by FL. He also got smeared by Alabama in the BCS championship game.
Am I missing something? Where are the undefeated seasons? His only undefeated season in his career happened in 2002 at Grand Valley State.
Let’s look at kelly from his last year at Cinci 12-1 versus Harbaugh ’09 for the same period.
2009
kelly 12-1 cinci left in dust/tears as HC mercenary lies to team and abandons them. They get pummeled by Fl 51-24 kelly named home depot coach of the year
Harbaugh 8-5 loses in Sun Bowl Stanford’s first bowl game in 8 years
2010
kelly 8-5
Harbaugh 12-1 Stanford has its first 11/12 win season in school history & they win the BCS Orange Bowl demolishing Va Tech 40-12 Harbaugh was named the winner of the Woody Hayes Coach of the Year Award
2011
kelly 8-5
Harbaugh signs 5 year 25 million $ K with 49ers inherits a 6-10 team and goes 13-3 loses to Giants in NFC championship game Harbaugh named NFL AP coach of the year
2012
kelly 12-1 Notre Dame destroyed by ‘bama 42-14 in NC game. kelly named Coach of the Year multiple polls. kelly attempts to bail on ND and immediately goes dark to interview with the eagles. He's offered nothing and once again proves, like with cinci, that loyalty, trust, team, family... mean nothing to him.
Harbaugh 11-4-1 Lost to Ravens in the Super Bowl falling one short completion short of winning....
2013
kelly 9-4
Harbaugh 12-4 Lost to Sea Hawks NFC Championship Game
2014
kelly 8-5
Harbaugh 8-8 third in NFC West he signs with um for roughly a 40 million base with 9 million in incentives.
Harbaugh became the first NFL head coach to have reached a conference championship game in each of his first three seasons.
Your inference about the NFL being different than college would mean something if Harbaugh hadn't proved himself at both levels. kelly hasn't....
PS You wrote: "You keep randomly making assertions like "he'll make Michigan into a meat grinder" but the dude has never won a major conference championship..."
Harbaugh's reaching the NFC championship game 3 times in a row to start his NFL HC career is historic. No one has ever done that. He also won the NFC championship once. I'd say that's as big a conference championship as their is...
Winning the Big East and getting blown up by FL kinda sucks. kelly's departure from cinci may be the single worst head coaching move I have ever seen anyone in any sport make. It was as callous as it gets. Make no mistake about it. Harbaugh is going to build a version of Stanford that's bigger, nastier, more brutal, fundamentally sound.... It will be a meat grinder. He's feared by many coaches.
Lastly, here's the power house Big East totals for the 2009 season.
W Va 9-4
Pitt 10-3
Rutgers 9-4
Ct 8-5
So Fl 8-5
Louisville 4-8
Syracuse 4-8
The 2009 Big East blows....
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I get that you want to ignore that Harbaugh has never won a conference championship
I get that you want to ignore that Haraugh has nevre won a national championship
I get that you want to ignore that Harbaugh has really never won anything of significance in CFB
I get that you want to pretend that NFL Football is the same as CFB
Unfortunatley, none of these things are true
You've randomly chosen certain metrics and decided that these make Harbaugh great
(for some reason winning a BCS game is more important than going undefeated, winning a confernece, etc......at least in your mind)
You've randomly started throwing out assertions that Harbaugh will be great at Michigan (far from a guarantee) and start winning meaningful games (something he's never done anywhere) and won't leave or get chased out of town (something that's happened to him everywhere)
You've also randomly decided, based on your own arbitary metrics, that Harbaugh is much greater than Kelly.............though you can't (or won't) even try to debate the point that Kelly's team would SMEAR Harbaugh's team if they actually played this season..........which is again all that matters
You can keep trying to worhsip someone who is the #3 CFB Coach in his own division (based on accoplishments) and is likely to finish even lower than that this year (again, all that matters)........but until you can provide something meaningful for your sloberfest, don't expect anyone who's actually watched his history and isn't just getting the Michigan rendition of it to really care
Harbaugh is a good coach, but he's never won anything of significance, and is a mile from the god-like figure you're trying to pretend he is
I get that you want to ignore that Haraugh has nevre won a national championship
I get that you want to ignore that Harbaugh has really never won anything of significance in CFB
I get that you want to pretend that NFL Football is the same as CFB
Unfortunatley, none of these things are true
You've randomly chosen certain metrics and decided that these make Harbaugh great
(for some reason winning a BCS game is more important than going undefeated, winning a confernece, etc......at least in your mind)
You've randomly started throwing out assertions that Harbaugh will be great at Michigan (far from a guarantee) and start winning meaningful games (something he's never done anywhere) and won't leave or get chased out of town (something that's happened to him everywhere)
You've also randomly decided, based on your own arbitary metrics, that Harbaugh is much greater than Kelly.............though you can't (or won't) even try to debate the point that Kelly's team would SMEAR Harbaugh's team if they actually played this season..........which is again all that matters
You can keep trying to worhsip someone who is the #3 CFB Coach in his own division (based on accoplishments) and is likely to finish even lower than that this year (again, all that matters)........but until you can provide something meaningful for your sloberfest, don't expect anyone who's actually watched his history and isn't just getting the Michigan rendition of it to really care
Harbaugh is a good coach, but he's never won anything of significance, and is a mile from the god-like figure you're trying to pretend he is
Quick update - Bowl games are called the "Post-Season" for a reason.....they're after the season, not a part of it
Kelly had undefeated seasons with both ND and Cinci............something Harbaugh has never done anywhere
Even more food for thought
(Why does this God-Like-Figure of a coach keep losing games when other lesser-mortal-coaches can manage undefeated seasons??)
Kelly had undefeated seasons with both ND and Cinci............something Harbaugh has never done anywhere
Even more food for thought
(Why does this God-Like-Figure of a coach keep losing games when other lesser-mortal-coaches can manage undefeated seasons??)
There was a forced settlement??! WOW. I must really live under a rock to not have heard about this.
"You've randomly started throwing out assertions that Harbaugh will be great at Michigan (far from a guarantee) and start winning meaningful games (something he's never done anywhere)"
Oh it's guaranteed as long as the um hierarchy stays out of his way. Yes, he's that good. It may take a bit to ramp up, but he'll get it done.
Yeah, his knocking off #1 southern cal was meaningless. Has kelly ever beaten a number 1 team? Hint no. Has kelly ever won a bcs game? Hint no.... The big east conf champ accolade is insignificant. The conference was so worthless it dissolved.
Did you see what happened to the pats undefeated season? It kind of went up in smoke when the Giants beat them. That left former all pro Junior Seau uttering, "we didn't accomplish anything." It's not called undefeated. It's called a one loss season. Keep the rose colored glasses on though....
Let me try this another way.
Of the 12 head coaches w/ a min 5 yrs tenure at ND kelly (.692) is outperforming Brennan (.640), Faust (.535), Davie (.583) and Weis (.562).
Factoid: "No Coach" from 1887-1893 tied Davie and beat Weis and Faust.
8-5
8-5
12-1
9-4
8-5
Notre Dame has lost 5 or more games 23 times in 127 years.
We have done it 9 times this century.
14 of the 5 loss seasons are:
Kuharich (4)
Faust (4)
Weis (3)
Kelly (3)
Here are the 23 years of 5 plus losses:
1933 Andersen (coached 3 years)
1956 Brennan (coached 5 years)
1959 Kuharich (coached 4 years)
1960 Kuharich
1961 Kuharich
1962 Kuharich
1963 Devore (coached 2 years)
1981 Faust (coached 5 years)
1983 Faust
1984 Faust
1985 Faust
1986 Holtz (coached 11 years won NC)
1994 Holtz
1999 Davie (coached 5 years)
2001 Davie
2003 willingham (coached 3 years)
2004 willingham
2007 weis (coached 5 years)
2008 weis
2009 weis
2010 kelly
2011 kelly
2014 kelly
What's fascinating is listening to folks tout kelly's 8 win per year streak. When I bring up his loss record the fall back is, we play more games now. Well doesn't that take away from the 8 win per annum bragging too?
Harbaugh dwarfs kelly in every facet of the game. That includes finishing third in the Heisman, being a first round NFL pick and spending 14 years in the league.
kelly has one undefeated season at Grand Valley period. He also sucker punched cinci and tried to sucker punch us.
Starting a season with 12 men on the field when the 12th guy who isn't supposed to be on the field is your O captain is bizarre. Not knowing basic football math against NW was worse. I could go on and on, but rest assured Harbaugh knows more about football in his pinky than kelly ever will.
I guess kelly's and harbaugh's head to head game was also meaningless. Harbaugh played with kelly like a cat does with a mouse much like sarkisian this year.
We are the defending music city bowl champs. That gives us zero bragging rights. We're staring right down the Texas barrel. They have everything to gain and will try to make a statement. We better be careful. "kelly ball" intimidates no one. Until he understands physical dominance we're toast.
Please feel free to share any component of this team that has shown consistent statistical competence over kelly's tenure. Hint, there are none.
Yeah, winning the big east will go down in the annals of sports as well nothing. However, Harbaugh's 3 consecutive conference championship appearances to start his NFL HC career will stand the test of time. His beating southern cal as a 41 point dog record will too....
Harbaugh knows what he's doing...kelly not so much....
You still haven't answered my question, who would you take for HC kelly or Harbaugh?
Winston recently settled with klinsman, under duress of future suits and continued negative image
You must have inside information no one else does. To my knowledge he recently filed a counter suit and moved to have the cival hearing transferred to Federal Court. Court date is set for April 2017 now according to info published in the past week.
Had a settlement been made this would have been all over ESPN and definately the main topic of discussion at Warchant. I haven't heard a ripple. Please link.
"If Kinsman's lawsuit against the FSU Board of Trustees is any indication, these proceedings could drag on for years. The Kinsman/FSU suit had a status hearing on May 2, 2015 where an early trial date was set for the week of August 15, 2016, and that's provided the discovery process runs smoothly and doesn't result in any delays.
The scheduling order was revised on May 27, 2015 and the trial period was moved up a month to July 18, 2016.
There's also still the issue of FSU's pending motion to dismiss, which was made in early March and still hasn't been ruled on.
The case between Winston has yet to even receive a scheduling order as the two sides continue to jostle over venue and procedural matters. With more delays in the process seemingly inevitable, it's possible a trial may not be held until 2017."
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"To be fair, the number of ND players whom have been forced into a civil settlement because of sexually related transgressions is very small, especially compared to FSU"
Care to link? I can't speak to ND (although the numerous rape allegations against ND historically have been listed here recently) but to my knowledge FSU has zero civil sexual assaults forced into settlements to date. Zero is a pretty small number last I checked. I could be wrong as sometimes these are kept under wraps by the courts and don't make headlines. I would be interested in any info you might have pertaining to your well researched comment, however.
Care to link? I can't speak to ND (although the numerous rape allegations against ND historically have been listed here recently) but to my knowledge FSU has zero civil sexual assaults forced into settlements to date. Zero is a pretty small number last I checked. I could be wrong as sometimes these are kept under wraps by the courts and don't make headlines. I would be interested in any info you might have pertaining to your well researched comment, however.
Getting back to the the original topic I find it amazing that the latest VEGAS picks for the top 25 differ so dramatically from the Coach's Poll:
Las Vegas' top 25 college football teams for 2015
1. Ohio State (1)
2. TCU (1)
3. Baylor (4)
4. Alabama (3)
5. Oregon (5)
6. Arkansas (20)
7. Georgia (9)
8. LSU (13)
9. Michigan State (6)
10. Auburn (7)
11. Florida State (8)
12. Ole Miss (15)
13. Oklahoma (19)
14. Tennessee (25)
15. USC (10)
16. Stanford (21)
17. UCLA (14)
18. Missouri (23)
19. Georgia Tech (17)
20. Clemson(12)
21. Texas A&M (NR)
22. Notre Dame (11)
23. Wisconsin (18)
24. Boise State (24)
25. Mississippi State (NR
Las Vegas' top 25 college football teams for 2015
1. Ohio State (1)
2. TCU (1)
3. Baylor (4)
4. Alabama (3)
5. Oregon (5)
6. Arkansas (20)
7. Georgia (9)
8. LSU (13)
9. Michigan State (6)
10. Auburn (7)
11. Florida State (8)
12. Ole Miss (15)
13. Oklahoma (19)
14. Tennessee (25)
15. USC (10)
16. Stanford (21)
17. UCLA (14)
18. Missouri (23)
19. Georgia Tech (17)
20. Clemson(12)
21. Texas A&M (NR)
22. Notre Dame (11)
23. Wisconsin (18)
24. Boise State (24)
25. Mississippi State (NR
Vegas does that for a living but there are about 5-6 teams either grossly overrated or underrated
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