Upgrade on Offense

[stu4don]

For all the sturm and drang on this site -- charges of mediocrity and CFB passing Our Lady by -- I believe...

Parker+Gino+Rudolf >>> Rees and Harry

Yes, we'll have to wait and see on Parker but... both Gino and Rudolf have coordinator chops and they'll be a voice in the room.

I think this is an upgrade. In recruiting, check. Position coaching, check. Scheme, well, we'll just have to see.

 

[Telx1]

For all the sturm and drang on this site -- charges of mediocrity and CFB passing Our Lady by -- I believe...

Parker+Gino+Rudolf >>> Rees and Harry

Yes, we'll have to wait and see on Parker but... both Gino and Rudolf have coordinator chops and they'll be a voice in the room.

I think this is an upgrade. In recruiting, check. Position coaching, check. Scheme, well, we'll just have to see.

I agree Stu. Gino and Rudolph are critical hires who I expect to be excellent position coaches for us, and augmentation to Parker’s relative lack of OC experience. Anxious for Spring training to start to see their influence.

 

[tbone3114]

38-40 points per game and a top 10 offense!

 

[Tru2Irish]

38-40 points per game and a top 10 offense!

We hope that is the case because I'm slightly worried about D front seven for the first time in a long time. Gonna need those scores.

 

[Telx1]

We hope that is the case because I'm slightly worried about D front seven for the first time in a long time. Gonna need those scores.

Agree on concerns of front seven. We really need several young guys to step up this year. More unknowns than in recent years.

 

[notredamerises23]

For all the sturm and drang on this site -- charges of mediocrity and CFB passing Our Lady by -- I believe...

Parker+Gino+Rudolf >>> Rees and Harry

Yes, we'll have to wait and see on Parker but... both Gino and Rudolf have coordinator chops and they'll be a voice in the room.

I think this is an upgrade. In recruiting, check. Position coaching, check. Scheme, well, we'll just have to see.

Maybe, but we’re going to need a few years to know because the personnel we have next year means we’re going to have a better offense regardless.

Overall offensive efficiency rank in 2022: 39th (last 7 games approximately top 15). Over the last 7 games, ND’s offense had a very good TD rate, i.e., drives that end in TDs, and a high value per drive rate, i.e., field position advantage changed because of offense. We got good enough a what we were doing last year that USC played very carefully with us and made sure to eat clock on its drives.

This was done with Pyne for the most part.

 

[savvyandsassier]

For all the sturm and drang on this site -- charges of mediocrity and CFB passing Our Lady by -- I believe...

Parker+Gino+Rudolf >>> Rees and Harry

Yes, we'll have to wait and see on Parker but... both Gino and Rudolf have coordinator chops and they'll be a voice in the room.

I think this is an upgrade. In recruiting, check. Position coaching, check. Scheme, well, we'll just have to see.

It's not an upgrade. it's just not. Clearly. But on that note, would you be willing to argue that in front of the Supreme Court? Like if ND was being sued, for negligence somehow, for hiring such a shitty coach. Such a demonstrably inferior coach for a key role like OC, for a program with a distinctly higher standard to uphold. Like, the ND Nation website was suing its own alma mater for dereliction of duty in its, I don't know, it's fiduciary responsibility to look after it's own best interests, and they failed to do so by hiring this also-ran in Gerald Parker. When they definitely could have done better....

I'm just listening to Supreme Court arguments, which is like a hallucinatory experience that this is how our society is run..... But nevertheless, what would your argument be, that ND, is failing in whatever it's duties... that perhaps they are legally bound to perform so as to optimally serve their constituents or whatever, fans and alums like you and me. Well I'm a son of an alum but same difference. Maybe that doesn't give me 'standing' in front of the court....

I don't think you'd have much of a case. Not with some message board argument like the NCAA tried to use to keep their exploitation racket going. That was a literal message board argument and they got smoked, 9-0... I don't see your argument doing much better, even if we limited it to some narrow legal scope or whatnot, that all it had to be was better than Tommy Rees. Who just got hired by the greatest coach in CFB history to the most key position on the staff, and then there's HH who practically venerated as a living god by ND's own fans.

So how did we come out ahead? You're the advocate here. You gotta make the unreal real, so what's your argument??

 

[Golson5]

It's not an upgrade. it's just not. Clearly. But on that note, would you be willing to argue that in front of the Supreme Court? Like if ND was being sued, for negligence somehow, for hiring such a shitty coach. Such a demonstrably inferior coach for a key role like OC, for a program with a distinctly higher standard to uphold. Like, the ND Nation website was suing its own alma mater for dereliction of duty in its, I don't know, it's fiduciary responsibility to look after it's own best interests, and they failed to do so by hiring this also-ran in Gerald Parker. When they definitely could have done better....

I'm just listening to Supreme Court arguments, which is like a hallucinatory experience that this is how our society is run..... But nevertheless, what would your argument be, that ND, is failing in whatever it's duties... that perhaps they are legally bound to perform so as to optimally serve their constituents or whatever, fans and alums like you and me. Well I'm a son of an alum but same difference. Maybe that doesn't give me 'standing' in front of the court....

I don't think you'd have much of a case. Not with some message board argument like the NCAA tried to use to keep their exploitation racket going. That was a literal message board argument and they got smoked, 9-0... I don't see your argument doing much better, even if we limited it to some narrow legal scope or whatnot, that all it had to be was better than Tommy Rees. Who just got hired by the greatest coach in CFB history to the most key position on the staff, and then there's HH who practically venerated as a living god by ND's own fans.

So how did we come out ahead? You're the advocate here. You gotta make the unreal real, so what's your argument??

I think you can make the case. All to be determined

 

[Get Nasty]

38-40 points per game and a top 10 offense!

I think ND should really be up around 40ppg this season. ND has 3-4 teams on the schedule where hanging 50 isn't out of the question. I'm NOT including Navy.

To me though and it's fairly obvious is the key number is difference between Defensive PPG and Offensive PPG. Last year the difference was only 10. In comparison, Georgia difference was almost 30, and ohio state was 25. You still have close games, but you get your starters some rest, and your backups more development.

I think a realistic goal for ND is the difference should be approaching 20.

 

[Golson5]

I think ND should really be up around 40ppg this season. ND has 3-4 teams on the schedule where hanging 50 isn't out of the question. I'm NOT including Navy.

To me though and it's fairly obvious is the key number is difference between Defensive PPG and Offensive PPG. Last year the difference was only 10. In comparison, Georgia difference was almost 30, and ohio state was 25. You still have close games, but you get your starters some rest, and your backups more development.

I think a realistic goal for ND is the difference should be approaching 20.

Putting up 50 plus on bad teams is meaningless.

Being able to move the ball and score on the best teams is what says if you have a real offense.

We havent had that in awhile

 

[Get Nasty]

Putting up 50 plus on bad teams is meaningless.

Being able to move the ball and score on the best teams is what says if you have a real offense.

We havent had that in awhile

somewhat agree. Stomping bad teams early helps build deep teams. Every year we talk about crushing some early teams that shouldn't be good and it just doesn't seem to happen. Then our young talented players don't get any early reps.

 

[Golson5]

somewhat agree. Stomping bad teams early helps build deep teams. Every year we talk about crushing some early teams that shouldn't be good and it just doesn't seem to happen. Then our young talented players don't get any early reps.

It's nice to smash teams and get guys playing time, no doubt. We need to do that

But at the end of the year, if OSU and Clemson or a bowl team shut our offense down, it wont be a really good offense just because we have 40ppg and doninated the weak teams

 

[Ndapolis1]

It's not an upgrade. it's just not. Clearly. But on that note, would you be willing to argue that in front of the Supreme Court? Like if ND was being sued, for negligence somehow, for hiring such a shitty coach. Such a demonstrably inferior coach for a key role like OC, for a program with a distinctly higher standard to uphold. Like, the ND Nation website was suing its own alma mater for dereliction of duty in its, I don't know, it's fiduciary responsibility to look after it's own best interests, and they failed to do so by hiring this also-ran in Gerald Parker. When they definitely could have done better....

I'm just listening to Supreme Court arguments, which is like a hallucinatory experience that this is how our society is run..... But nevertheless, what would your argument be, that ND, is failing in whatever it's duties... that perhaps they are legally bound to perform so as to optimally serve their constituents or whatever, fans and alums like you and me. Well I'm a son of an alum but same difference. Maybe that doesn't give me 'standing' in front of the court....

I don't think you'd have much of a case. Not with some message board argument like the NCAA tried to use to keep their exploitation racket going. That was a literal message board argument and they got smoked, 9-0... I don't see your argument doing much better, even if we limited it to some narrow legal scope or whatnot, that all it had to be was better than Tommy Rees. Who just got hired by the greatest coach in CFB history to the most key position on the staff, and then there's HH who practically venerated as a living god by ND's own fans.

So how did we come out ahead? You're the advocate here. You gotta make the unreal real, so what's your argument??

Tiger rant

 

[chaseball]

Putting up 50 plus on bad teams is meaningless.

Being able to move the ball and score on the best teams is what says if you have a real offense.

We havent had that in awhile

How well your offense performs vs various levels of competition in college ALL matters.

When your offense is national championship worthy, you'll see it in how well the team performs every time they have the ball from the first snap to the last. Crap-tier competition will get run over, mid tier competition will have had enough by the 3rd quarter, good tier teams will still get overwhelmed consistently, and only the best teams in the country can actually slow it down.

That's when you know your offense has arrived. Think the first 8 or so games of the 2017 season when nobody could stop the left side of our o-line and josh adams was running over everybody like a truck right behind them dominating everybody on their schedule with the games being over by halftime.

 

[Golson5]

How well your offense performs vs various levels of competition in college ALL matters.

When your offense is national championship worthy, you'll see it in how well the team performs every time they have the ball from the first snap to the last. Crap-tier competition will get run over, mid tier competition will have had enough by the 3rd quarter, good tier teams will still get overwhelmed consistently, and only the best teams in the country can actually slow it down.

That's when you know your offense has arrived. Think the first 8 or so games of the 2017 season when nobody could stop the left side of our o-line and josh adams was running over everybody like a truck right behind them dominating everybody on their schedule with the games being over by halftime.

Putting up big points against the weak is easy.

Putting up points against the elite in games that matter is where it counts

All of your other stuff was hot air

 

[chaseball]

Putting up big points against the weak is easy.

Putting up points against the elite in games that matter is where it counts

All of your other stuff was hot air

I thought my point was pretty clear. Every snap is a datapoint with which the football team can be evaluated from. Every single non-junk time snap gives us a piece of evidence that allows us to began to quantify the data and start ranking items by numbers. You don't just wash away a chunk of performance and attribute it to nothingness, ALL non-junk time data matters.

A 50+ yard play vs Marshall is not the same as a 50+ yard play vs Alabama, but that doesn't mean the 50+ yard play vs Marshall doesn't contain any data, that data counts too. It ALL goes into the formula with which really impressive math/data science types (even alums from ND) use in their ranking algorithms that rival vegas oddsmakers

There is a really predictable resistance to new insights into an old game here, but i'm telling you the smart teams dont care if they took a loss to some meaningless mascot "rival" on the schedule in some 1-off game, the real wins are happening this time of the year and the scoreboard is the 247 composite rankings and when the season kicks off the wins are taking place in their databases & spreadsheets.

 

[IrishMike409]

It's not an upgrade. it's just not. Clearly. But on that note, would you be willing to argue that in front of the Supreme Court? Like if ND was being sued, for negligence somehow, for hiring such a shitty coach. Such a demonstrably inferior coach for a key role like OC, for a program with a distinctly higher standard to uphold. Like, the ND Nation website was suing its own alma mater for dereliction of duty in its, I don't know, it's fiduciary responsibility to look after it's own best interests, and they failed to do so by hiring this also-ran in Gerald Parker. When they definitely could have done better....

I'm just listening to Supreme Court arguments, which is like a hallucinatory experience that this is how our society is run..... But nevertheless, what would your argument be, that ND, is failing in whatever it's duties... that perhaps they are legally bound to perform so as to optimally serve their constituents or whatever, fans and alums like you and me. Well I'm a son of an alum but same difference. Maybe that doesn't give me 'standing' in front of the court....

I don't think you'd have much of a case. Not with some message board argument like the NCAA tried to use to keep their exploitation racket going. That was a literal message board argument and they got smoked, 9-0... I don't see your argument doing much better, even if we limited it to some narrow legal scope or whatnot, that all it had to be was better than Tommy Rees. Who just got hired by the greatest coach in CFB history to the most key position on the staff, and then there's HH who practically venerated as a living god by ND's own fans.

So how did we come out ahead? You're the advocate here. You gotta make the unreal real, so what's your argument??

I can see your argument, aside from Rudolph vs Harry.

You said after week 2 that Harry was average and a journeyman OL coach. You have to think Rudolph is better than that.

 

[savvyandsassier]

I can see your argument, aside from Rudolph vs Harry.

You said after week 2 that Harry was average and a journeyman OL coach. You have to think Rudolph is better than that.

I'm just saying, on paper, this is not an improvement. Whatever happens happens but it wasn't an upgrade. That's just not a reasonable position.

 

[Notre Dame du Lac]

For all the sturm and drang on this site -- charges of mediocrity and CFB passing Our Lady by -- I believe...

Parker+Gino+Rudolf >>> Rees and Harry

Yes, we'll have to wait and see on Parker but... both Gino and Rudolf have coordinator chops and they'll be a voice in the room.

I think this is an upgrade. In recruiting, check. Position coaching, check. Scheme, well, we'll just have to see.

Was Gino even hired?

 

[Kelso86]

I'm just saying, on paper, this is not an improvement. Whatever happens happens but it wasn't an upgrade. That's just not a reasonable position.

"I'm just saying, on paper, this is not an improvement"

On paper, it can be anything you want it to be.

Realistically, none of us will know anything until August 26, 2023 in Ireland.

The spring game/glorified practice, will reveal nothing -- for anyone hoping to glean anything from it.

 

[IrishMike409]

I'm just saying, on paper, this is not an improvement. Whatever happens happens but it wasn't an upgrade. That's just not a reasonable position.

I see your side. I really do.

You’re right: we’ll see what happens here. A ton of “what if’s”. I’m optimistic, per usual.

Anxious to see what Rudolph gets out of the OL. I loved Harry, but let’s remember- Harry had his favorites. Those “favorites” might not be Rudolph’s guys. Could see a very new OL. I think only 2 guys are sure starters now (Blake and Alt). Could be wrong. Hoping to hear some other OL thoughts/projections in this thread.

 

[savvyandsassier]

"I'm just saying, on paper, this is not an improvement"

On paper, it can be anything you want it to be.

Realistically, none of us will know anything until August 26, 2023 in Ireland.

The spring game/glorified practice, will reveal nothing -- for anyone hoping to glean anything from it.

Fine. I'm over it. It is what it is. It's fine. We didn't get a top or sought-after OC, that's undeniable. It was frustrating, but, you know.... what are you gonna do....

 

[88ND]

Addition by subtraction.

The Brian Kelly regime and any and or all it's parts are now gone, no?
Sans Powlus I think that's correct. Any position of importance is now reset.

You can opine for or against the Brian Kelly regime but make no mistake you can't change what has already happened.

The biggest of stages and the grandest of games with a month prep time first downs became moral victories. FG's were a Fiesta and touchdowns....well now...in the rare event we got one early it was hall of fame chatter....BIG time.

I'm not suggesting this staff will be better than BK regime but I must say BK showed the pinnacle of his ability here. It's well documented. Games played. Embarrassing offensive performances already happened.

On that note the fact it's a new regime is already off to a "better than" start.

We shall see